No one has said they can't spread it. A study on June 18 said it is still a puzzle to determine the extent of youth catching and/or spreading the virus. They may not spread it the same or worse but they can still spread it. So instead of it spreading to 50 it spreads to 15? The next part is it goes home with them to Mom/Dad/Grandma/Grandpa etc. It is a very difficult decision to make and I would not want to be the one tat has to make it.
Restrictions are coming to Return to Play
- Thread starter EdgyTim
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How can you possibly make that promise? And what about their families?
Right, I didn't say they can't spread it at all. They don't spread it at a rate to cause a surge. That is what all the data from other countries have found. The kids went back to school, and there wasn't a spread of infections at the schools or at the kids home. That is phenomenal news. But we are ignoring it.
Again the question becomes how much are we as a society and parents willing to take to remove years of our kids playing lives? Seems like we all agree covid isn't going to disappear next year. Or ever. So when is enough going to be enough? Many say a vaccine. Ok, but we know vaccines aren't going to be taken by everybody. So even when we have a vaccine, you're going to have players that won't get it and could still "spread it". So what then?
We are potentially looking at removing sports for years now. Years. Unless somewhere somehow, some public body steps up and says enough is enough. And allows players and parents to do what they want.
We can't talk about liability either. You simply cannot prove some person got a virus from an exact location and time. Any liability talk is pure nonsense. Impossible to prove.
Sadly the only way this breaks though is probably litigation. Have to hope the July 17 case vs ISBE and IDPH breaks some ground. And other lawsuits will probably be needed too.
Well said- not trying to argue with you- this has been a very difficult roller coaster for players and coaches. It has been an on again off again painful ride for the last several weeks. The unknown is taking a toll on us. The look in our guys' eyes today was almost too much to take - but no one wants to be the person who makes a "wrong" decision.
Liam that makes much more sense and I do agree. Greg Sankey the SEC commissioner said we are in a world now to where we have to learn to live with this virus. Running away from it will lead to everyone running in circles.
The state guidelines say youth football can play. It will come down to the facilities that they use.
League near me has plans to play at facilities in Indiana if Illinois shuts them down.
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Texas saying their season is severe doubt....Big Ten and ACC changing schedules to conference only.....All of you considering uprooting your family or shipping your kid off to IN or WI I’d advise to seriously slow your roll, this may be shutting down nationwide, Florida and IMG included
I agree. I see youth FB not really happening in most places. Even if schools have fall sports, I doubt they let outside groups use their facilities. So it will be hard for many teams to find places to play.
I never thought of that . But liability would come into play if they use a schools facility.
Yea, I’ve already heard of several organizations with great relationships with their local high school be told that zero outside organizations can use facilities this year.
I assume it all comes from a concern of indoor groups and the extra need for cleaning that would present that districts just don’t want to deal with. And that blanket decision applies to outdoor fields as well unfortunately.
How many of these countries offer the same level of interscholastic athletics as we do here in this country. I'll answer my own question -- ZERO. In terms of school sports, no other country does what we do to the extent that we do it. So the data is nice, but not as relevant to U.S. schools -- especially when discussing the wisdom of conducting school sports during a pandemic.
How many other countries with the data you have reviewed offer AMERICAN football, where you literally line up inches away from your opponent's face who is huffing and puffing as much as you are...where you collide together and block faceguard to faceguard?
It is mystifying to me how anyone can think this is an appropriate activity in the middle of a pandemic which has been proven to be spread primarily through the inhalation of water droplets exhaled by others.
Again Ramblin, you're missing the entire point of the argument. Of course HS athletes could get covid while playing football. No brainier. BUT there is no evidence that kids will infect OTHER adults at any significant rate based on their age and all given studies around the world. That's what we are all worried about right? These kids will certainly test positive. And I'm willing to bet my life that none will end up in the hospital or die. But we now know, based on the science and studied available to us, that they don't spread it to adults like adults to others.
So kids can tackle each other. They can perhaps test positive. And the data shows they run a very low risk of infecting their family or grandparents. Until we have data that shows THAT, there is absolutely no reason kids can't be kids and do all sports with no restrictions.
So kids can tackle each other. They can perhaps test positive. And the data shows they run a very low risk of infecting their family or grandparents. Until we have data that shows THAT, there is absolutely no reason kids can't be kids and do all sports with no restrictions.
https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19
Study from Europe published July 2nd based on kids in school. I have yet been able to find one the contradicts the findings. They are not finding any secondary infections for patients under 18 based on the contact tracing that they are doing. Simply put they are not spreading it to 50 or 15 they are essentially spreading it to 0. So basically it is highly more likely that Grandma/Grandpa/Mom/Dad are going to spread it to the student at home. I don't understand how some make the general argument about how well Country X is doing but we don't bother to look at the data that Country X is finding. Are they not as smart as us? I doubt it, it just seems that for some reason the US is not willing to accept information from other countries or try to figure it out ourselves, or if they know and not telling the public. Personally I don't care if the US has information that is contradictory or confirms the above study we have the right to know, to be able to make some kind of decision for ourselves.
Even if the kids aren’t as susceptible, it’s gonna be a perception and misinformation problem that’s gonna cause people to get their undies in a bind. They will say’ “why did I go into the bunker for 90 days and change my way of life with all of this social distancing crap yet kids can play tackle football. IMO.
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Thank you for the well reasoned argument, very good points and no ranting and raving. Since we are the only country that does these things, at what point do we decide to stop hiding in fear. I say we allow them to try based on the facts (they are facts, just not determined here)How many of these countries offer the same level of interscholastic athletics as we do here in this country. I'll answer my own question -- ZERO. In terms of school sports, no other country does what we do to the extent that we do it. So the data is nice, but not as relevant to U.S. schools -- especially when discussing the wisdom of conducting school sports during a pandemic.
How many other countries with the data you have reviewed offer AMERICAN football, where you literally line up inches away from your opponent's face who is huffing and puffing as much as you are...where you collide together and block faceguard to faceguard?
It is mystifying to me how anyone can think this is an appropriate activity in the middle of a pandemic which has been proven to be spread primarily through the inhalation of water droplets exhaled by others.
I think they should proceed with what was planned so that we can really find out what is going on. Since no one else does what we do then.
1. It has been shown there is a low risk to the HS athlete.
(30 covid-19 death in 0-15 year olds and 100 flu deaths in 0-15 year olds since February)
2. It has been shown that they are a low risk from spreading it to other people.
https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19
3. Illinois numbers are low enough that adequate contact tracing can be done, keep the lineman in small groups and always the same players in a group if they need to do contact drills. that way we can track especially with increased testing. I wish I had Pritzker's money and own a testing company, I would donate tests to keep track of what is going on or put that new Whoop tracker on each athlete the PGA is using, for schools.
4. Find out from the traveling 7v7 teams if there was anything picked up in Florida/Texas the last few weeks.
5. Treatments are getting better by the day for people that contract the virus so we can respond to that.
At some point we need to come out of the cave and just go with it, because if we don't we will never have the data
I will post again in this thread, but this is not necessarily true. There is some evidence that high school students transmit the disease to each other and to adults at a greater rate than elementary students. And many experts agree that it is difficult to make any solid conclusions with the current amount of data - agreeing that there is just not enough.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-ways-keep-coronavirus-bay-despite-outbreaks
This article touches on both of those points and mentions a far broader range of case studies than I have seen anywhere else. There is not enough data to make solid conclusions. And what little data there is comes from countries that don't have football and school-sponsored sports like ours do. While some of the evidence is slightly promising, high school students seem to need a more cautious approach to help limit the spread and there is simply not enough data for an institution to feel confident that their teachers/coaches/high-risk family members & students wouldn't be put in harm's way with a more regular return.
The combination of major reductions in extra-curriculars and in-person leaning together with the memories of any return to spring-level shutdowns outside of the school environment could be exceptionally rough on the school-age kids. Having gone through it already, they will know the degree of dysfunction this collectively represents for their lives. This group needs some away-from-home aspect of their life from which to draw some growth and satisfaction. Something needs to go their way and soon.
The bottom line is, public entities will err on the side of extreme caution when it comes to Little Sally and Jonny. Simply the see the potential of humongous judgements against them to cripple school districts. It’s not worth it. Not to the ones who have to sign off In the decision.
Not even the rare death of a teen is a legitimate covid death even if it says so in the stats somewhere... watch short video of JB press conference. So the true covid death rate is even lower than the low death rate we know about. Plus the more positive cases we find (which everyone is freaking out about) the lower the death rate since the case rate is climbing faster than the death rate.
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I have a son who reports to Eastern on Saturday to begin Summer workouts. They have to have a negative test before he shows up (which he has) and then they are going to be tested on arrival. My middle son is a sophomore to be and has been following all IHSA guidelines. I’m as hopeful for football as anyone on here as I have no social life besides watching my boys play. But places like Clemson, MLB, NFL can’t keep everyone safe. How are EIU and MCHS going to? Hell the Big 10 is limiting their schedule. I admit to being left leaning, but any hope of football at the high school level this year is false. And I feel horrible. I think we need to temper any optimism.
My question to you is how long are you willing to go with this “new normal”. A vaccine could talk a LONG time. In my opinion it’s time to stop running from this thing. I say you give parents the option to let there kids go to in person school in the fall. If they are scared of catching it then they have their kid so online leading. Maybe set up a computer and have the kids who are at home be there via zoom and be present for the lecture like the kids in school. Have the teachers send them the work via email. In my opinion that takes away from the people concerned with their kids giving them the virus.How many of these countries offer the same level of interscholastic athletics as we do here in this country. I'll answer my own question -- ZERO. In terms of school sports, no other country does what we do to the extent that we do it. So the data is nice, but not as relevant to U.S. schools -- especially when discussing the wisdom of conducting school sports during a pandemic.
How many other countries with the data you have reviewed offer AMERICAN football, where you literally line up inches away from your opponent's face who is huffing and puffing as much as you are...where you collide together and block faceguard to faceguard?
It is mystifying to me how anyone can think this is an appropriate activity in the middle of a pandemic which has been proven to be spread primarily through the inhalation of water droplets exhaled by others.
ISBE told schools that face shields aren't effective in the absence of masks via info from IDPH, so I'm assuming they aren't for the helmets either.
School staff would be safer at school with masks then going out in public. It is safer to be surrounded by children who are less likely to infect then other adults. Staff with serious health conditions can of course consider if they need to stay home or teach remotely. But any healthy staff needs to realize there is much less risk at school, with a large population that doesn't spread highly, in a place that will be sanitized like no other.
It’s a risk that some won’t wanna take. I understand, and respect that. But as a student I can tell you first hand E-Learning is a complete joke. Nobody is truly “Learning” anything. It’s just everyone using Google. Even my 9 year old brother in 2nd grade I googling answers to his math homework. It’s time to get back to in person learning. And in my opinion is a risk most teachers would be willing to take. But for the ones who don’t want to take that risk. I respect their decision.
How about the exposure risks other occupations work under on a daily basis? Hospitals, first responders, transportation workers, retail personnel and all the others coming back as re-opening continues are not being insulated from public circulation. If a school staffer elects to sit out of in-person school times, take a penalty-free medical leave for that decision. I wonder if teachers are being surveyed about their willingness to get back into the school buildings by the districts.
They are being surveyed as to preference on how to teach this year. Honestly most the teachers I've spoken to want to go back.
We had a faculty meeting yesterday and one of the topics was that if we have sports, whether our district would allow homeschooled kids to play.. currently they are not allowed, but the current thinking is that in 20-21, they would be allowed.. Of course, if a parent doesn't want their kid in a school building because of the virus, are they really going to let them play a sport... And then the topic of playing sports was brought up if we go a hybrid schedule, and there was a lot of disagreement..
Point being, the IHSA can do their own thing, but there are going to be a lot of moving parts that determine if sports are played statewide and locally.. IF we play, I can see a lot of 1A/2A teams not having enough kids to play 9 games..
Point being, the IHSA can do their own thing, but there are going to be a lot of moving parts that determine if sports are played statewide and locally.. IF we play, I can see a lot of 1A/2A teams not having enough kids to play 9 games..
What evidence from the U.S. is there to support your claim? As I stated, no other country comes close to offering the scope of interscholastic athletics as we do. What evidence is there about football participation specifically, since football and rugby and wrestling are sports which are tailor made to spread the virus through inhalation? What evidence is there specifically related to U.S. high school athletics and this specific pandemic? There is no evidence because data could not be collected as schools and sports programming were stopped last March/April when levels of the pandemic were far less than they are now. How do you know that the tangential/peripheral evidence you cite is evidence enough to justify interscholastic sports in the U.S. at this particular point in the spread of the virus?
It seems to me that, at a time when daily confirmed cases of the virus are at record highs in this country and when Illinois just witnessed its highest daily confirmed case count in over a month, now is not the time to be experimenting with the COVID equivalent of chicken pox parties through activities where teens are literally up in each others faces and breathing heavily.
However, I can understand hesitancy by CTU members to beat down the doors to return to CPS schools due to documented past troubles with even routine cleaning and availability of such supplies. Enhanced sanitizing steps would seem to be a really tough ask making school staff skeptical of their proper completion.
Ramblin we don't have evidence in US because we shut everything down and now are pretty much refusing to send kids back to school or social life with any normalcy! The only way to get the evidence is to do what other countries have...open schools back up and send kids. Let them do what they need to do! What's the alternative? Not getting the data we need by refusing to do anything? There isn't massive data yet on sports. So what is the proposal? Never getting the data by not allowing anything anymore for the rest of life? That's where we are headed with that kind of thought.
You have misunderstood what I have been saying.
I never said anything about kids not being in school this fall. I think kids returning to school classrooms in some fashion while taking appropriate precautions is reasonable and enough of a step for now. Let's see how that goes before we jump whole hog into extracurricular sports programming.
I am not saying we should not try to get kids back in school. Where do you get that from? I think that you and others assume I want to keep kids out of the classroom because I want to keep them from participating in school sponsored risky behavior relative to the spread of the virus outslde the classroom. Not true.
For all of us, it comes down to risk/reward. I think kids being in school and taking appropriate precautions is worth the risk of increased spread of the virus. I think kids being involved in school sponsored extracurricular activities that result in a far greater chance for even greater spread of the virus is not worth the risk. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
