Q: Who are the Top Programs of this Decade?
- Thread starter EdgyTim
- Start date
Montini...wow!
I would think MS, CG, PR, GBW, LA, PC, JCA, ESL and some other central and southern IL schools that I’m uninformed about have some really impressive numbers.
I starting following HS football much more closely around 10 years ago. I know the last few years haven’t been great but WWS seemed to be towards the top of the list for a pretty good stretch.
I would think MS, CG, PR, GBW, LA, PC, JCA, ESL and some other central and southern IL schools that I’m uninformed about have some really impressive numbers.
I starting following HS football much more closely around 10 years ago. I know the last few years haven’t been great but WWS seemed to be towards the top of the list for a pretty good stretch.
120-18
2 8A Championships
6 Final Appearances
9 appearances in the semis
10 straight season with at least 11 wins
I think 7 CCL Blue championships (outright/shared)
This is a good list to start as the entry hurdle to even being nominated. Obviously, every filter list has its limitations. One limitation can't be quantified: when did your program run into the untamed unquestioned state champion monster? Huh? In 3A, the monster in 2016 & 17 was IC. Wilmington's quarter loss to the Knights was IC's closest game in the '16 playoffs, where the Wildcats scored as many points as the Knights other four opponents combined. But the only factor they tick off is being in the quarters, when they were probably the second best team in 3A. How many 4A South teams have had seasons probably prematurely ended by an early matchup with Rochester? How about years where 8-1 teams end up with road games in the first round?
I would add 5 undefeated regular seasons to the list of qualifying factors. Any team that goes undefeated every other year on average is a top program....
IMO, undefeated regular seasons or conference championships should mean very little in determining top programs. There are lots of CPL schools that finish with undefeated seasons. What should count more than anything is playoff success.
In the formal study of logic, your question is the "inverse" of my "conditional" statement. Although a "contrapositive" statement formed from a conditional has the same truth, the same can not be guaranteed of an inverse. Bottom line: what I said does not equate to "having turf is pretentious."
Seeing as how the membership identifies “success” as an appearance in the finals, here’s the top 25 sorted by finals appearances, titles, semifinals, QFs and playoff wins.
Rochester - 7, 7, 8, 9, 40
Montini - 7, 4, 7, 7, 33
Loyola - 6 , 2, 8, 8, 33
Maroa-Forsyth - 6, 1, 8, 8, 32
Nazareth - 4 , 3 , 4, 5, 23
Prairie Ridge - 3, 3 , 5, 6, 24
Lena-Winslow - 3, 3, 4, 7, 26
Forreston - 3, 3, 4, 6, 23
Immaculate Conception - 3 , 3 , 4, 4, 20
Mt. Carmel – 3, 2, 6, 6, 25
Sacred Heart-Griffin - 3, 2, 5, 7, 25
Phillips - 3 , 2, 4, 6, 21
Cary Grove - 3, 1, 4, 6, 23
Crete-Monee - 3, 1, 3, 4, 17
Lake Zurich - 3, 0, 5, 5, 20
Tuscola - 3, 0, 4, 6, 20
Glenbard West - 2, 2, 5, 6, 24
Newman Catholic - 2, 2, 4, 8, 25
Batavia - 2, 2, 4, 5, 19
Maine South - 2, 2, 3, 6, 22
Aurora Christian - 2, 2, 3, 5, 17
Boylan - 2 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 17
Gibson City MS - 2 , 2, 2, 3, 14
Lincoln-Way East - 2, 1, 3, 6, 21
Joliet Catholic – 2, 1, 3, 6, 19
Rochester - 7, 7, 8, 9, 40
Montini - 7, 4, 7, 7, 33
Loyola - 6 , 2, 8, 8, 33
Maroa-Forsyth - 6, 1, 8, 8, 32
Nazareth - 4 , 3 , 4, 5, 23
Prairie Ridge - 3, 3 , 5, 6, 24
Lena-Winslow - 3, 3, 4, 7, 26
Forreston - 3, 3, 4, 6, 23
Immaculate Conception - 3 , 3 , 4, 4, 20
Mt. Carmel – 3, 2, 6, 6, 25
Sacred Heart-Griffin - 3, 2, 5, 7, 25
Phillips - 3 , 2, 4, 6, 21
Cary Grove - 3, 1, 4, 6, 23
Crete-Monee - 3, 1, 3, 4, 17
Lake Zurich - 3, 0, 5, 5, 20
Tuscola - 3, 0, 4, 6, 20
Glenbard West - 2, 2, 5, 6, 24
Newman Catholic - 2, 2, 4, 8, 25
Batavia - 2, 2, 4, 5, 19
Maine South - 2, 2, 3, 6, 22
Aurora Christian - 2, 2, 3, 5, 17
Boylan - 2 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 17
Gibson City MS - 2 , 2, 2, 3, 14
Lincoln-Way East - 2, 1, 3, 6, 21
Joliet Catholic – 2, 1, 3, 6, 19
This post definitely isn’t pretentious...
And the only thing that counts is winning the state championship in the class where you played the regular season. Period.
Beating up on unsophisticated, teams in 5A does not make you a "champion" if you've been playing 7A and 8A teams the previous two months. Plus, a finals "appearance" might be a consolation, but that's about it.
All this stuff about quarter-final and semi-final appearances are bragging points for teams with low expectations.
Oh OK MC63. Would that also apply to prep bowl titles where you are playing another losing team for the chance to up your chances of filling the trophy case and impressing recruits? Unsophisticated sounds like a description for 98% of the CPS programs that would play in this prep bowl “title game”.
Really shut me up. So many syllables put me in my place.
Your constant ranting on this point gets really old. Who are you to say what counts as a real state championship? Every state championship counts, despite what a grumpy old man says.
I'm still hopeful that you will be visited by three ghosts this holiday season.
I agree. I think total wins over a decade should count for something. 1 or 2 down seasons or early exits over a really successful span of 10 years shouldn’t disqualify a program from being in the conversation.
MC63,
You should consider directing your dissatisfaction at the IHSA and not at the association members who are simply abiding by the rules of the organization.
Your desire for teams to compete in the postseason against schools of similar size to who they played in the regular season EXISTED FOR 15 YEARS between the 1991 – 2005 seasons.
- In the 1991-2005 window the IHSA classified all teams by their “Football Enrollment” which was determined by comparing a school’s actual enrollment against the average enrollment of their opponents, and whichever is higher was their “Playoff Enrollment” and into that Playoff Class they were sent
- In 2006 the “1.65 Multiplier” was instituted for non-boundary schools
- For one year (2006) the two attempted equalizing formulas were used to determine a team's Playoff Class
- Beginning in the 2007 season the “Football Enrollment” formula was scrapped for all schools
- Through this year, only the “1.65 Multiplier” and its numerous iterations, exceptions and variants has been used
Some throwback articles on "Football Enrollment" are linked below.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/ct-xpm-1993-08-29-9308290359-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8=&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=18
https://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/ct-xpm-1995-11-03-9511030128-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8=&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=18
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Thanks for doing that! Really impressive list, regardless of class! The resumes speak for themselves. One could argue that titles are more important than appearances but at least with a list like this, we can see how programs stack up by playoff success.
You’re welcome.
And while I would agree about titles being more important, that just makes the top program question a counting exercise. I think maybe there’s more to it than that? Isn’t it also about how you want to define success over a period of time or what a top program is? If you are Tuscola or LZ, for example, would you trade those 3 finals appearance for one title and 2 years of no playoff appearances (or one and done or whatever)? Would that impact how they are judged as a top program? (And I think most would agree they are both considered top programs in their respective class, but maybe I am wrong.)
Would LA trade a couple of those final appearances for another title?
Here are some numbers for comparison, since 2000
JCA 6 titles (also won in 1999) 2 seconds and 183 wins
Montini 6 titles 3 seconds and 181 wins
Rochester 7 titles (all after 2010) 0 seconds and 180 wins
Maine South 5 titles 3 seconds and 209 wins
Mt Carmel 4 titles (also won in 98 & 99) 3 seconds and 200 wins
Montini and JC have remarkably similar resumes
8 appearances and 209 wins in largest class for MS is very impressive
CG can check every box.
Last 10 years:
105 Wins
2 State titles
4 Finals appearances
5 Semis
7 Quarters
If you’re looking for an intelligent response from MC63 regarding this matter, prepare to wait for a very, very long time.
Exactly. His outrage only began in 2006. Until then everyone played where their opponent average was, throwing out the high and the low.
JC won 6a in 2007 so that was also appropriate for their schedule. This year they were 5a, which was smaller than their regular season schedule. So of our 14 titles, apparently 13 of them are ok in his book.
Seriously, aren't Prep Bowl Champs in this day and age more like participation trophies?
Todays Prep Bowl is a joke. Ask Brother Rice followers. Attendance is no longer listed and the last posted number was a tad over one thousand. Makes the days of glory look long gone for sure. Politics will eventually kill it.
It has run it’s course. Think the college all stars vs pro game that also was a tradition. If you all privileged individuals would stop treating it like an important game, maybe the comments would stop. It is a game, but not a championship game of worth in the state of Illinois.
This is relevant. Thanks for doing the research on this.
I’d like to add CG has 4 appearances and 2 titles.
I would like to hear that discussion at the Leonard family Christmas dinner.
The success factors was designed for teams that dominate in a class but have talent to dominate in much higher class. So far it’s been spot on. Rochester talent level is 4a at best. They couldn’t play with 6a or higher teams in throughout the playoffs
I want to say yes but by doing so I don’t want to diminish the accomplishments of any team that didn’t win a title. I’ll say no. Those teams that didn’t win are a huge part of the tradition and culture that’s developed. Ali didn’t win every fight. Some of his losses were his best fights.
So basically if your a public high school and dominate in your class you probably couldn't compete in a higher class. No offense but i think that is not exactly true. ESL dominated in lower classes and had the balls the petition up and have done very well in the higher classes. Just saying!
ESL have lineman over 250lbs. Rochester have lineman under 200lbs. No need to be silly.
All.... From this years Rocket roster. I hear they have some size at the sophomore level as well. Ratsy
Butler 6'1" 265 ("Move in" - an interesting story by the way)
Sweeney 6'1" 250
Ramsey 6'2" 255
Boxman 5'10" 270
Jackson 6'0" 305
Koerwitz 6'4" 305
Dulin 5'10" 250
It's really a moot point. The IHSA isn't going to hold public schools to the same standard. And Rochester isn't about to petition up.
Funny, post the previous years when they won 7 State Championships. Both years they played Althoff, the line was extremely small. Create whatever narrative you want but you know the truth!
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