Here’ s a thought let the kids go where they please as long as attendance and grades are good. Then I am sure public vs private will be put to rest. Just a thought
Q of the Week: So what's the fix?
- Thread starter EdgyTim
- Start date
Can you imagine Alabama getting on a chat board like this telling Mercer to get a tougher schedule?
Speaking about the publics, there are more publics that have competed and won 8A
It’s kind of a misleading stat as the bulk of private schools do not normally compete at 8A. Private schools have won 5 8A titles and only Mt Carmel and Loyola have won them - Marist and Rice are the only other schools to play in 8A title games and both lost to private school teams.
In 11 of the past 14 years private schools were in the title game in 8A. And one or two of those were private only. No one is asking for kids NOT to go private, but to not admit that their is an inherent advantage is crazy.
Geneva, York and Batavia made it to the championship game, so yeah they came close! NC got knocked out by York in the semis, not a private, NC knocked out Lyons in the quarterfinals. And obviously LWE came extremely close to knocking off LA in the semifinals. I can't wrap my head around how you think SOS is not a factor. It clearly is.
SOS is a huge factor. Where the problem occurs is when you’re tied to a conference that is 50/50 at best with half good and half bad teams.
I’ll use the NSC as an example.
Libertyville Stevenson Lz Warren and LF are perennial playoff teams. Mundelein Zion and Waukegan aren’t competitive.
The issue is you lose your edge playing non competitive teams. In the CCL that’s rare that teams run into that. It’s a significant advantage but one that’s really not with a path to change unless we get into the districts discussion which makes me ill.
You're misunderstanding me. I am not suggesting that playing a tough regular season schedule is not advantageous. I'm merely pointing out the fact that in the end, talent wins. And amassing talent is only available to private schools who are allowed a larger area to recruit. How can you not wrap your head around that?
Changing goal posts again? I don’t get it, is it about winning trophy’s or being the best you can be. It seems these days we don’t strive to be the best we can be, but to have others tell us we are the best because we are working towards mediocrity. I’ve had my kids in public then private in Illinois and then public in PA. Tell the kids to work their ass off and be the best they can and get the adults egos out of the equation. If you want New Jersey and kids being recruited from 8 states separated, please don’t complain about how watered down public school ball is because every top tier athlete goes private to make sure they get their college recruitment handled by competent coaches(note I’m not saying all coaches in public schools are incompetent, but if you separate all the recruiting and pay rules go out the window)
To me it’s a bigger issue in the smaller classes than in the larger ones.
Lena etc can’t pull from the talent pool and range that someone like althoff can. Thai ain’t about Bobby Brady everyone gets a trophy it’s about operating from the same principles and playing fields.
Wilmington can’t go get kids that Montini can get. Sycamore can’t get kids in their town like Nazareth or Joliet or Providence can.
Providence is probably a bad example as LW schools seem to keep their own in districts.
I like your overall philosophy here, except there's one issue I can't understand.....if the goal is to be the best you can be, do rules matter? Or is it simply justifiable to skirt rules, or have certain rules available only to a select few, in order to be "one's best?" Honestly, serious question. I don't want to come across as attacking, but you are moving the goal posts.
Wilmington can’t get kids Lisle can get, but they seem to have no problem kicking their ass most years. Byron seems to have no issue taking Montini to the wire this season and straight up beat them last season. I’ll stick to my guns of adults needing to stay out of kids sports and stop giving them excuses to lose.
Is it adults staying out of kids sports when they attend all of their youth games and call them on the phone to beg them to attend their high school? 40 year old men calling 13 year old boys to beg them for their services.
Again this is about adults egos. Kids can do amazing things as a team regardless of stars next to their name. I’ve seen plenty of 5stars bust in person at the next level.
Yes. Try 1-32 for 2 seasons. See what happens. Then review and make changes IF needed.
I’ve seen this behavior from public schools as well, not the ones you listed in your prior posts.
As have I, and I don't agree with it, but if it's about kids than we need to send the message that it's wrong. Not that we can do it better than the next guy. But is this about kids? Or is this about adult egos?
Is it ok for 40 year old men to call pre-teens and beg them for services? Creepy isn't it? Yet this board idolizes some of them.
Edgy,
1) Seed 1-32 using the computers Calpreps/Massey average.
2) eliminate wavier for the privates(sorry guys 1.65 base plus x2 for all boys) or male enrollment for all teams public and private and private gets a 1.65x)
3) Old SF for all teams which also eliminates the issues for publics that do nothing but win
4) open class for anyone that wants to play up from 8A
1) Seed 1-32 using the computers Calpreps/Massey average.
2) eliminate wavier for the privates(sorry guys 1.65 base plus x2 for all boys) or male enrollment for all teams public and private and private gets a 1.65x)
3) Old SF for all teams which also eliminates the issues for publics that do nothing but win
4) open class for anyone that wants to play up from 8A
I think kids should be given options and opportunities. I think parents(guardians) are always involved and should be. I am a strong believer in school choice and the kids allotment of funds should port with the child from transferring institution to receiving institution. I think these transfers should apply to academics, the arts, 4H, and sports. Is that clear enough?
This is why I'm not as adamant about the disparity as I was in my younger days
Yes. As am I! School choice would be a great program and philosophy...but it's not currently in place. So what do we do? Give a few schools the option of selling "choice" and continue to see all-star teams? Or teach kids to earn something.
Yes you have to “sell” it to the parents/guardians as they have to pay the $12-20k a year per student to attend. I had 2 sons that played on power5 teams and 2 sons that elected not to play in college and I had to pay every cent of tuition even when I was out of work in 2015. There is no free lunch for private schools to “scholarship” players. There is the Big Sholders program in the city of Chicago, I believe, but all these schools use a 3rd party clearinghouse to assess need based awards. I do know of one student that was a guardian of a player that paid that players tuition but he was like the guardians son.
I understand. I applaud you for being a selfless father as well. But you have the choice of attending a public school for free or choosing to attend a private school at a premium cost. Is it worth it? Yes in some ways. Is it an advantage? Yes.
See my last reply to your question as to why he transferred. Keep in mind I was also dropping$32.5k on school taxes on a house well under $1MM value and then $45k/year on tuition.
I think Wilmo could’ve given Montini a decent challenge if they’d been at full strength on their home field.
With that said, ‘24 Montini was the best team that Wilmo has played against since 2016 IC.
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That sucks but it could happen to any one of us and that's scary. But your story is unique. Dierre Hill didn't go to Althoff to avoid opiates....
No he went there to be the best he could be! No one is paying him to go to school there. Now at the next level NIL will be paying him well I’m sure and he should be.
If your saying or implying he was on sports and not need based scholarship if his tuition was subsidized, I’m not going to pretend to know his personal situation and you shouldn’t either!
You know there have been a lot more that have won the higher classes....WWS won numerous times, Lockport won a couple, Bolingbrook (beat Loyola) Prospect won a couple (beat MC in 2005) Stevenson, how far we going back and what are the higher classes? If we are talking 6A then you got Cary Grove of course.
If I lived in a nice suburb I'd send my kids to the suburban high school probably more times then I would not, regardless that I'm a practicing Catholic. I'm paying the taxes I might as well send them to the school. But being a City of Chicago employee, as well as my better half, we are bound to live in Chicago city limits and while the the neighborhood we reside in is fine and dandy the CPS high school we would be zoned in is absolutely not. So we, like 90% of the neighborhood send our kids to Catholic Schools, and yes they all invite us to their schools for visits because they would love to have our tuition money and some of our kids athletic services but tuition first. Most of the South Side CCL schools and many North Side CCL schools are made up of a high % of City of Chicago employees kids, as high as half in most schools, especially on the South Side
Only top 32 overall (public and private) teams play for IHSA state championship - record, win margin, and select seeding committee weighted - with no regard to off-season residency transfers. Allow the athletes to play and transfer to wherever is the best place for them and their talents.
While not politically possible, it would fix the current challenge of loaded scholarship-bought private teams under an exaggerated or plain false academic / religious focus, dramatically reduce the nuanced and exaggerated claims of many suspect team’s on-field FB dominance, and likely return prep football to a time when public conference championships actually mattered as an achievement level. Private school dominance is still way overblown as most know regardless of 2024, but a level of fairness in how the rules apply to everyone needs to be re-established for IHSA’s credibility/integrity in football.
And the final product would be much better at every old level or region due to real rules.
While not politically possible, it would fix the current challenge of loaded scholarship-bought private teams under an exaggerated or plain false academic / religious focus, dramatically reduce the nuanced and exaggerated claims of many suspect team’s on-field FB dominance, and likely return prep football to a time when public conference championships actually mattered as an achievement level. Private school dominance is still way overblown as most know regardless of 2024, but a level of fairness in how the rules apply to everyone needs to be re-established for IHSA’s credibility/integrity in football.
And the final product would be much better at every old level or region due to real rules.
Just go back to straight enrollment and add a fair multiplier for privates. And 1-32 seeding across the board. Stop making this so complicated.
I’m a private school guy and I’d like to see all of these.
Although, I follow mainly smaller schools (1A-3A), so #4 doesn’t mean much to me.
1. Seed all classes 1-32. There was a proposal by committee that if round 1 of the playoffs the distance was within 150 miles total of the distance traveled even if divided between a north/south....then it was seeded 1-32. In some years....there is more travel round 1 with a North/South split than seeded 1-32.
2. Separate Public from Private and have 1 open class. It's completely 2 systems of obtaining athletes and a multiplier hasn't fixed, nor can. No matter how much you try. 6 classes for boundary. 2 classes for non boundary and 1 open Champions division. Qualification standards remain. There will actually be less boundary schools qualifying for the playoffs (192) when it's been around 225-230. Non Boundary schools will double their qualifiers with 64, instead of their usual 25-30. Champions division can be 32 or 16 teams.
3. Playoffs are now expanded. Which has been a push by the IHSA. Some of the boundary schools that want to play non boundary....can if they choose. As far as championship weekend.....it can be figured out.
8 classes
1-3A for small schools based on enrollment
4A is an open playoff for schools less than 1,400 to opt in
5-7A for big schools based on enrollment
8A is an open playoff for schools 1,400 or more to opt in
Then you would see who is confident enough to opt in
1-3A for small schools based on enrollment
4A is an open playoff for schools less than 1,400 to opt in
5-7A for big schools based on enrollment
8A is an open playoff for schools 1,400 or more to opt in
Then you would see who is confident enough to opt in
No private schools in 1,2 or 3a playoffs. All privates compete in 4 thru 8a. Biggest private schools (top 20%) go 8a, next 20% go 7A etc, etc. the biggest disparity between the privates and publics is 1a thrum 5a where the public schools enrolment
private schools participate In classes 4 the 8 only. No private schools in 1 thru 3. The largest (top20%) qualifying private schools got to 8A, the next largest 20% go to 7a etc etc. the biggest advantage privates have is quality depth and that is most obvious in 1 thru 5a. The smaller public schools don’t have enough students to create quality depth to compete. What we see is 3,4 and 5a is dominated by private schools(JCA, Naz, Prov, SF, SHG) year in year out. This proposal would put all this schools in 6and 7a. The MC, Loyola, BR, Marist, Rita etc would all end up in 7a/8a competing against Public schools with large enrollment to help mitigate the player depth issues of lower classes. The NAZ, Prov, JCA will still win there share of titles cause they have great coaches and programs but they will lose games against the strong public programs too. MC / Loyola right now are on a run. Great coaches, great programs and great athletes but LWE, MS, Warren, Batavia, York, DGN, Lyons GLENBARD west, NN, NC etc will win some. Overall it’s simple solution and easy to calculate. Also I would seed 1-32 in all classes
