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Public 106 Private 62

"Someone stated earlier that if a private school has a need for a specific type of player, they can attempt (it's no guarantee) to get that player whether they are an incoming freshman or senior. The publics can't do that. Now lets be honest, some do and some have got caught and others have got away with it. But that is beside the point, the rules allow the privates to recruit and the public schools can't."

I'll trade you the ability to recruit for your free education. How is free education not an advantage for public schools relative to privates?

And, how often do you think that ability to recruit to fill a specific position actually happens? Seriously, how often?

"Ramblin has a very simplistic view of how football programs work in the smaller, rural districts. It is not about championships and he thinks schools that are "just not good enough" use the private schools as an excuse as to why they can't win and only complain when they lose to a private. That is simply not the truth. It isn't about championships or even beating the private schools, it is about teams competing under the same rules. "

What a crock of crap. If public schools were winning ALL of their games against private schools do you think that they would still be whining because privates and publics aren't competing under the same rules? Get real.

"The multiplier has proven to be an equalizer and the IHSA screwed up by counting the COVID season as a season which has resulted in the success of the Privates this season and last season." What success last season?

"Ramblin will say look at the publics winning 6 of 8 in 2021 as proof the public can win, and public fans will say look at 2022 when 6 or 8 privates won and declare the system unfair, and both sides aren't wrong."

Here's what Ramblin really says: Don't just look at 2022 and 2021. Look back further than that. You acknowledge that the IHSA screwed up, but look at what happened over the past several years.

2021: 6 out of 8 classes won by publics.
2020: No playoffs due to covid
2019: 6 out of 8 classes won by publics.
2018: privates and publics win 4 classes each
2017: 7 of 8 classes won by publics.
2016: same as 2017
2015: privates and publics win 4 classes each.

How about if you and your whining ilk try putting things in perspective rather than turning into Chicken Littles when privates win the majority of a season's state titles for the first time since 2004? These things have a way of ebbing and flowing. Back in 1980 and 81, private schools won four of 6 titles. In 1992, PRE-MULTIPLIER, public schools won ALL the titles. Stop foaming at the mouth after just one year. Take a chill pill. Take the long view.

"See Byron vs. IC, Wilmington vs. Mac, Lockport vs. Loyola, Wheaton North vs. Rita and Brother Rice and various others in 2021 and even 2022 and private supporters will say 'look see, the publics can compete and win' and lump all publics together into those programs and say just get better."

Exactly right. Just. Get. Better. We also say things like it CAN be done. Deal with it.

"St. Teresa has had a great run the past 5 or so years, it has not equated into championships but that does not negate the fact that they have hammered most of their opponents by very wide margins and draw from 150,000 people."

Now your knickers are in a bunch because St T wins by large margins? Do they get that way for you when PUBLIC schools win by large margins too? Mine do...for both private and public. For YEARS, I have bemoaned the huge playoff mismatches that take place because the classes have too wide of a discrepancy of competitiveness from top to bottom. For YEARS, I have suggested here that a system should be put in place to make the classes more competitive. And you know what? Some of the exact same people who want to separate privates and publics because SOME of the privates hammer their opponents are among those who DON'T want to even out the classes competitively. Go figure. Would you be one of those? Are you one who hates it when private schools win by large margins, but public schools get a hall pass from you in that regard?

"IC is also the same, they may not always win the championship but they play a 4A/5A/6A schedule then play in 3A where yeah they have played close games and even been upset a few times but they still have a very high winning percentage, and winning margin."

So what? So do other public schools. Again, why can't private schools win big in your world? Why can't they experience similar sustained athletic success like some public schools? I've asked these questions a few times, but you choose not to answer them.

"Private supporters will bring up Le Win, they shouldn't even be in the discussion as they are 1A and there are not many privates in 1A and they should not be punished by a success factor for being good."

You are insufferable. If there WERE lots of competitive private schools in 1A and Le-Win got bounced from the playoffs by privates every now and then, you'd be the first to whine to high heaven about it. But, because there aren't m/any at the moment, you say we can't include Le-Win as an example of a successful public school that has proven it CAN be done and a public school that Just. Got. Better?
I’ll make the argument that tuition is an advantage for the private schools as it eliminates a certain element of society that’s less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars… and then The classification system balances it out
 
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I’ll make the argument that tuition is an advantage for the private schools as it eliminates a certain element of society that’s less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars… and then The classification system balances it out
Might be the dumbest post I’ve seen on this site in the last 12 yrs
 
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CCL enrollments have fallen greatly the last 25 years and sports success has not. If enrollment and athletics coorelated we would have seen something different.
People aren’t having big families like they use to either.
Also as tuition has gone up, some families have to choose between catholic grammar or high school. They can’t afford both
 
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People aren’t having big families like they use to either.
Also as tuition has gone up, some families have to choose between catholic grammar or high school. They can’t afford both

Yeah. The non athlete suburban kids are staying public for high school. All the south side public enrollments are either growing or staying the same. That is great for CCL athletics, not great for the overall school.
 
Since the IHSA went to 8 classes there have been 168 title games. The public schools have won 106 to 62 for the private schools. For all you math fans that’s 63% to 37%. So I’m confused as to the beef and why people want a split. Maybe I don’t understand because I have a soft spot for the privates. I went to Lutheran schools from kindergarten through high school. It could be that I don’t understand because I work and cheer for a very successful public school for the last 25 years. Maybe I’m the only one who is happy with how things are. I love 8 classes. The more football players that get to experience State the better in my book. IT IS AMAZING!! Carry on gents and have a great offseason!
I have read all the posts about publics vs. privates for years.

Would this fix all issues?

Two classes of open playoffs. 16 teams each (not 32 since you may not have enough teams opt into the format). Based on enrollment of opt in teams. Opt in before week 9.

Six classes for everyone else.

Then most of the angst and debate goes away. If you win, you can say you didn’t shirk anyone. If you lose, at least you challenged yourself. If you don’t opt in, then you can try to justify it to your fan base or critics. All public vs private debate goes away.
 
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I have read all the posts about publics vs. privates for years.

Would this fix all issues?

Two classes of open playoffs. 16 teams each (not 32 since you may not have enough teams opt into the format). Based on enrollment of opt in teams. Opt in before week 9.

Six classes for everyone else.

Then most of the angst and debate goes away. If you win, you can say you didn’t shirk anyone. If you lose, at least you challenged yourself. If you don’t opt in, then you can try to justify it to your fan base or critics. All public vs private debate goes away.
It doesn't seem this would change much. With the exception of East St. Louis and the restriction the Southwestern Conference places on it, schools already have the option to petition up as many classes as they would like. If, for the most part, schools currently in 5A, 6A and 7A are not petitioning to play in 8A, it doesn't seem likely that they would choose to play in an open playoff. For example, Mt. Carmel did not petition to play in 8A this past season. Why would someone assume Mt. Carmel would voluntarily choose to play in an open playoff?
 
It doesn't seem this would change much. With the exception of East St. Louis and the restriction the Southwestern Conference places on it, schools already have the option to petition up as many classes as they would like. If, for the most part, schools currently in 5A, 6A and 7A are not petitioning to play in 8A, it doesn't seem likely that they would choose to play in an open playoff. For example, Mt. Carmel did not petition to play in 8A this past season. Why would someone assume Mt. Carmel would voluntarily choose to play in an open playoff?
Yea- there has to be a specific draw.

I think it's important to remember too that while we as fans look at these things over larger horizons, for kids it's a 2-3 year window, and for 80% that's the last real competitive sport they'll play. A coach electing up to a class, maybe proves something to us fans, but isn't really about the kids at that point. Can voluntarily electing up about the kids? Maybe there are cases where it is - certainly don't want to make it seem like ESL is doing something wrong, because every situation is different. But I can understand any ADs hesitation to do so and ultimately respect if nearly all err to caution and just say they'll play where they're placed.
 
I feel there was a good fix in place when ALL privates were multiplied 1.65. Get rid of the success factor and the enrollment classifications would be leveled again.
 
I feel there was a good fix in place when ALL privates were multiplied 1.65. Get rid of the success factor and the enrollment classifications would be leveled again.
Good for whom? Leveled for whom?

Would it be good for a team like Chicago Christian that was a first round knockout in 2A, losing by a 34 point margin? How about Rockford Lutheran, shut out in in the second round 28-0? Would 1A be more "leveled" by moving Chicago Hope Academy (a #2 seed beaten 44-16 by a #10 seed in round two) to 2A? Would 2A be more "leveled" by adding them?
 
Good for whom? Leveled for whom?

Would it be good for a team like Chicago Christian that was a first round knockout in 2A, losing by a 34 point margin? How about Rockford Lutheran, shut out in in the second round 28-0? Would 1A be more "leveled" by moving Chicago Hope Academy (a #2 seed beaten 44-16 by a #10 seed in round two) to 2A? Would 2A be more "leveled" by adding them?

Chicago Christian would take 2a everyday over being in an all-private school association.
 
I’ll make the argument that tuition is an advantage for the private schools as it eliminates a certain element of society that’s less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars

Please elaborate on this. What certain element of society is it eliminating? Where are your stats that that "certain element of society" is less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars?
 
Please elaborate on this. What certain element of society is it eliminating? Where are your stats that that "certain element of society" is less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars?
And which extra-curriculars?
 
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Good for whom? Leveled for whom?

Would it be good for a team like Chicago Christian that was a first round knockout in 2A, losing by a 34 point margin? How about Rockford Lutheran, shut out in in the second round 28-0? Would 1A be more "leveled" by moving Chicago Hope Academy (a #2 seed beaten 44-16 by a #10 seed in round two) to 2A? Would 2A be more "leveled" by adding them?
Great examples....but all those schools were knocked out by much superior public programs.

I will take the multiplier and say it should be for all open boundary schools. That would include Maine South, Whitney Young and Simeon's of the world.

Great article in the Sun-Times about Mike Irvin (Mac Irvin Fire) the basketball coach at Kenwood Academy. The recruiting and transfers are not going anywhere.

Providence, St Francis and SHG had no business being in 4A this year. Naz had no business in 5A.
 
Good for whom? Leveled for whom?

Would it be good for a team like Chicago Christian that was a first round knockout in 2A, losing by a 34 point margin? How about Rockford Lutheran, shut out in in the second round 28-0? Would 1A be more "leveled" by moving Chicago Hope Academy (a #2 seed beaten 44-16 by a #10 seed in round two) to 2A? Would 2A be more "leveled" by adding them?
Maybe if those teams coach their kids up, they would be successful at the higher class level.
 
Maybe if those teams coach their kids up, they would be successful at the higher class level.
Maybe. But probably not. You want Chicago Christian in 5A, simply because they are a private school. Not because they have exhibited ANY kind of sustained success (they haven't).
 
I guess SouthofI80FootballFan has no reply to my post on the last page in regards to his diatribe on St Teresa.

Coward.
Nope not a coward, had a death in the family so was out of state.

I was mistaken and forgot about the few of the Brilley years where they were just ok.

The population within 30 miles is more than 102,000, that is just Macon county and St. T can get gets from communities outside of Macon county.

Typical St. T response. Think they are better and above everyone else and never do anything wrong. Lots of sketchy recruiting has happened in the Macon county area in the past. Don't get me wrong, St. T totally earned their title this year and coach Ramsey has cleaned things up around St. T and done a great job turning the program around. It will be a sad day when he decides to hang up the whistle because I don't know if St. T will be able to find a guy of the outstanding character that they have in Ramsey. He is a quality guy and has done things the correct way. Maybe I'm just misinformed, old, or biased toward my public schools, but things were not always done the right way at St. T
 
Please elaborate on this. What certain element of society is it eliminating? Where are your stats that that "certain element of society" is less likely to have kids involved in extra curriculars?
Here is your stats....https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/09/children-in-poverty-less-likely-to-participate-in-sports-gifted-programs.html

Low-income students are less likely to participate in extra-curricular activities.

What is the low-income or free/reduced lunch population among private schools?
 
After doing some research most of the Private Schools that made the finals were multiplied. Providence and SHG are the only ones that played at their true enrollment.

School/True Enrollment Class/Multiplied Class
Loyola/8A/8A
Mt Carmel/5A/7A
Naz/4A/5A
Providence/4A/6A
SHG/4A/5A
IC/2A/3A
St Theresa/1A/2A
 
After doing some research most of the Private Schools that made the finals were multiplied. Providence and SHG are the only ones that played at their true enrollment.

School/True Enrollment Class/Multiplied Class
Loyola/8A/8A
Mt Carmel/5A/7A
Naz/4A/5A
Providence/4A/6A
SHG/4A/5A
IC/2A/3A
St Theresa/1A/2A
IC petitioned up.
 
After doing some research most of the Private Schools that made the finals were multiplied. Providence and SHG are the only ones that played at their true enrollment.

School/True Enrollment Class/Multiplied Class
Loyola/8A/8A
Mt Carmel/5A/7A
Naz/4A/5A
Providence/4A/6A
SHG/4A/5A
IC/2A/3A
St Theresa/1A/2A
Loyola's actual enrollment is solidly 7A. They petitioned up.
 
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Antioch's football twitter must be reading this thread



6A round 1: Notre Dame 28, Antioch 7.

I mean, I kind of get it. They beat up on a conference opponent 77-3 in week 9. They thought they were hot stuff going into round 1. However, NDCP, the private school that beat them, lost to St Ignatius in the quarters. Ignatius lost to Prairie Ridge in the semis. And PR got destroyed in the finals against ESL. Question: would the Antioch fan be whining at all if they had played Prairie Ridge in round 1 and gotten smoked?
 
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6A round 1: Notre Dame 28, Antioch 7.

I mean, I kind of get it. They beat up on a conference opponent 77-3 in week 9. They thought they were hot stuff going into round 1. However, NDCP, the private school that beat them, lost to St Ignatius in the quarters. Ignatius lost to Prairie Ridge in the semis. And PR got destroyed in the finals against ESL. Question: would the Antioch fan be whining at all if they had played Prairie Ridge in round 1 and gotten smoked?
It seems they are looking at the big picture (more than 1,200 games), not three or four games like you are.
 
6A round 1: Notre Dame 28, Antioch 7.

I mean, I kind of get it. They beat up on a conference opponent 77-3 in week 9. They thought they were hot stuff going into round 1. However, NDCP, the private school that beat them, lost to St Ignatius in the quarters. Ignatius lost to Prairie Ridge in the semis. And PR got destroyed in the finals against ESL. Question: would the Antioch fan be whining at all if they had played Prairie Ridge in round 1 and gotten smoked?
Delusional disorder is a serious mental illness where you can’t tell the difference between what’s real and what’s not. Delusions, or false beliefs, comes in several types. Delusions of grandeur are one of the more common ones. It’s when you believe that you have more power, wealth, smarts, or other grand traits than is true. Some people mistakenly call it “illusions” of grandeur.

Some delusions might be about events that possibly could have happened, but actually didn’t or were exaggerated. Other delusions are clearly bizarre, such as insisting that an alien lives in your fridge
 
It seems they are looking at the big picture (more than 1,200 games), not three or four games like you are.
Plenty of ways to look at data and make it fit any narrative. Are they counting private school wins against open boundary schools like CPS and a few other school districts have? What about the years before 1-32 in 7A & 8A where you had everyone geographically placed? You could have 4 private schools win a first round game and then lose in round 2 but still end up with a winning record against public’s.
 
Typical St. T response. Think they are better and above everyone else and never do anything wrong. Lots of sketchy recruiting has happened in the Macon county area in the past. Don't get me wrong, St. T totally earned their title this year and coach Ramsey has cleaned things up around St. T and done a great job turning the program around. It will be a sad day when he decides to hang up the whistle because I don't know if St. T will be able to find a guy of the outstanding character that they have in Ramsey. He is a quality guy and has done things the correct way. Maybe I'm just misinformed, old, or biased toward my public schools, but things were not always done the right way at St. T

At least you admit your bias against St Teresa.

Although still not sure where you got the following comments in your post from.

“They were something like 3-6 then went to 1A state championship the next year because they dropped down to 1A along with some questionable transfers and have 8 losses since.”

“But some privates are able to go from 3-6 to a state title appearance with a completely different team of athletes who were not in the school 1 year earlier


Did you just make them up and think no one would call you out?

You went from “some questionable transfers” (which there were ZERO “transfers” on the 2016 team) to a “completely different team of athletes who were not in the school 1 year earlier”……..SMDH
 
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6A round 1: Notre Dame 28, Antioch 7.

I mean, I kind of get it. They beat up on a conference opponent 77-3 in week 9. They thought they were hot stuff going into round 1. However, NDCP, the private school that beat them, lost to St Ignatius in the quarters. Ignatius lost to Prairie Ridge in the semis. And PR got destroyed in the finals against ESL. Question: would the Antioch fan be whining at all if they had played Prairie Ridge in round 1 and gotten smoked?
Lost to ND in the quarterfinal in 2018 too.
 
Antioch leadership should be ashamed for posting that.
What a terrible example so ass backwards
Look at thy self
 
And didn't take the lead in those games until late 4th quarter
A 5-4 private school football team narrowly defeats the two best 5A public school teams in the state, one unbeaten and the other with one loss; and no one should wonder if it might be the case that some of the private schools are playing at a higher level when it comes to talent? No team had been closer than 21 points to Sycamore prior to their loss to Nazareth.

* Note: The 5-4 record associated with Nazareth above was the team's record entering the playoffs, not their record at the time the two games were played.
 
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It seems they are looking at the big picture (more than 1,200 games), not three or four games like you are.

Yeah, you're probably right. I'm sure this revelation about the public/private situation just came to them out of the blue. It's pure coincidence that the first peep we ever hear out of the Antioch program regarding the public/private debate comes on the heels of being beaten 28-7 by Notre Dame College Prep in round one this year. Those 77-3 week nine victors over a conference colleague would never think to demonstrate poor sportsmanship by focusing on their own indignation and gall at losing to a private school in round one. They stand in righteous solidarity with their poor public school colleagues statewide who have to endure similar gall and indignation.

:rolleyes:
 
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