IHSA Statement on COVID forfeit ordeal....

[EdgyTim]

Wow. Just wow.

4. The Board reviewed correspondence related to IHSA football and the ability to schedule an exhibition game when an opponent forfeits. The Board issued the following statement:
“The IHSA Board recognizes the dilemma that forfeits caused by COVID-19 have created for member schools this year, especially as it relates to the sport of football. We believe it is important to recognize that IHSA by-laws do not allow for exhibition games in any IHSA sport, and because of these rules, the current forfeit procedures have been in place for many years. These rules exist for the benefit of student-athletes, as they place reasonable limitations on contests from a physical safety perspective, while also helping maintain a sensible time balance from an educational perspective. We understand that these policies are now under greater scrutiny, given that the pandemic has created more forfeits, which in turn allows for more rescheduling opportunities. In a normal season, there are traditionally very few football forfeits, and even fewer opportunities to reschedule when they occur. The choice has always existed for a team to accept their forfeit victory or attempt to find a new opponent and accept the result of that new contest. The IHSA Football Playoffs remain unique because they are the only IHSA postseason that a team must qualify for, and the qualification process includes a strength of schedule component that is dependent on each team having one result per week. Despite the unique circumstances of this season, we believe that any exemption to these rules at this moment would have the potential to hinder the football playoff system, while also having far-reaching implications on other IHSA sports."

Board Takes Action On Several Items At September Meeting, Including State Baseball Extension In Joliet

The Illinois High School Association (IHSA) Board of Directors met for its regularly scheduled meeting, which included both virtual and in-person attendance, on Monday, September 13, 2021. During the meeting, the Board approved nine action items, including an extension of the IHSA Class 3A/4A...

www.ihsa.org

 

[godfthr53]

I didn't finish my coffee yet. Are they saying if you play a game, i.e. Rochester vs. Loyola you accept that outcome. Which is what I assumed all along. Or did I miss something.

 

[Golden Warrior]

Given what I know of how some CPL teams operate, this made me chuckle:

"We believe it is important to recognize that IHSA by-laws do not allow for exhibition games in any IHSA sport"

 

[ramblinman]

any exemption to these rules at this moment would have the potential to hinder the football playoff system
t803/ArticleID/1867/preview/true[/URL]

What about the team that wins by forfeit against a team that won all of its games except the one that it had to forfeit? Now, imagine if that team that won by forfeit goes on and qualifies for the playoffs at 5-4, in large part, because of the playoff points it accrued from winning by forfeit against a team that otherwise went 8-0 in the regular season? Explain to me how a team backing into the playoffs by NOT PLAYING a game that it won by forfeit does NOT hinder the football playoff system? Imagine you are that bubble team that failed to make the playoffs because you went 5-4 and played all nine games, but a team that went 5-4 and played only eight games got in ahead of you based on the playoff points it "earned" against a team it didn't play.

 

[missingwalter]

What about the team that wins by forfeit against a team that won all of its games except the one that it had to forfeit? Now, imagine if that team that one by forfeit goes on and qualifies for the playoffs at 5-4, in large part, because of the playoff points it accrued from winning by forfeit against a team that otherwise went 8-0 in the regular season? Explain to me how a team backing into the playoffs by NOT PLAYING a game that it won by forfeit NOT hinder the football playoff system? Imagine you are that bubble team that failed to make the playoffs because you went 5-4 and played all nine games but a team that went 5-4 and played only eight games got in ahead of you.

That's how I felt about a local smaller school with a great history not wanting to play Oswego last week and accepting the forfeit (which they will probably need for 5 wins).

 

[CCHS-Fan]

'Imagine you are that bubble team that failed to make the playoffs because you went 5-4 and played all nine games but a team that went 5-4 and played only eight games got in ahead of you.'

This has been my thought about CC so far into the 2021 season. They had to forfeit week (1), but may still get to 5-4, with some significant playoff points total.
It would be a bummer for another 5-4 team that played a full schedule to not make it 'in', and CCHS does.
Not to my disliking, however LOL.

 

[Cross Bones]

I didn't finish my coffee yet. Are they saying if you play a game, i.e. Rochester vs. Loyola you accept that outcome. Which is what I assumed all along. Or did I miss something.

Yes, Rochester's coach was whining about not being awarded a win after the LA game. Which is silly to me to want exhibition games against teams playing real games. Odd, very odd.

Then after losing to Rochester the SHG coach blamed the IHSA for them being in a closed conference.

 

[greatgig13]

Yes, Rochester's coach was whining about not being awarded a win after the LA game. Which is silly to me to want exhibition games against teams playing real games. Odd, very odd.

Then after losing to Rochester the SHG coach blamed the IHSA for them being in a closed conference.

I didn’t realize it was considered an expedition. Shows how much I pay attention.

 

[Cross Bones]

I didn’t realize it was considered an expedition. Shows how much I pay attention.

That's the thing, it's not an exhibition game. People wanting the results not to count are asking for them to be exhibition games. In the case of Loyola v Rochester, the Loyola opening wasn't a COVID forfeit, they were looking for a 9th game so they would have been playing a real game against Rochester playing an exhibition.

 

[greatgig13]

That's the thing, it's not an exhibition game. People wanting the results not to count are asking for them to be exhibition games. In the case of Loyola v Rochester, the Loyola opening wasn't a COVID forfeit, they were looking for a 9th game so they would have been playing a real game against Rochester playing an exhibition.

No wonder D. Leonard took that opportunity. He thought he had nothing to lose. I get it now. I’m a little slow LOL.

 

[godfthr53]

Yes, Rochester's coach was whining about not being awarded a win after the LA game. Which is silly to me to want exhibition games against teams playing real games. Odd, very odd.

Then after losing to Rochester the SHG coach blamed the IHSA for them being in a closed conference.

They've never had a CPS school cancel a game on them and it shows.

 

[colin2229]

Not sure I get what all the fuss is about. If a team gets a forfeit win...you take the week off and get a W for doing nothing. If you don't want the forfeit win and want to go play a game you run the risk of taking an L.

Make the best decision for your team.

Why should the IHSA allow exhibition games during the regular season? You play a game...you either get a W or L on the schedule. No exceptions.

 

[crusader_of_90]

There seems to be a lot of exceptions and suddend changes these past two years. Rochester's opponent canceled. But a football team is supposed to play football. SO they played football, knowing they're likely to lose. This will not impact Rochester much, but the above scenarios where a 5-4 team that played eight games gets in before a team who played nine with the same record.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

Playoff debates about forfeits. Playoff debates about whether or not teams should play tough non conference schedules or not. Maybe it's time to let everyone qualify for the football playoffs?

 

[EdgyTim]

Why is this so hard to understand.....if a team forfeits for any reason fine. The point many (including myself) are trying to get across is shouldn't we try to encourage schools to keep playing and not just take a forfeit and sit out a week? Competition? Instead of discouraging teams from not seeking another opponent, why not try to at least encourage it instead? Allow teams to have the forfeit win AND allow them to play a game that week WITHOUT penalizing them win or lose? Isn't the job of the IHSA to help support and encourage and help promote high school athletics? That's all it is from my standpoint...

 

[Cross Bones]

Why is this so hard to understand.....if a team forfeits for any reason fine. The point many (including myself) are trying to get across is shouldn't we try to encourage schools to keep playing and not just take a forfeit and sit out a week? Competition? Instead of discouraging teams from not seeking another opponent, why not try to at least encourage it instead? Allow teams to have the forfeit win AND allow them to play a game that week WITHOUT penalizing them win or lose? Isn't the job of the IHSA to help support and encourage and help promote high school athletics? That's all it is from my standpoint...

What lesson would that teach the kids? That there are no actual consequences (good or bad) to their choices? Football teaches lessons. And not one of those lessons is that you always get the W. If that was what some people have been learning these years then they need to face Loyola more often until the actual lesson sets in. Joliet Central keeps showing up game after game to play and collect their L and they dont schedule city schools who are more down on their luck to get a cheap W. Joliet Central seems like they've learned the lesson. It being Rochester doesn't make it different.

 

[crusader_of_90]

What lesson would that teach the kids? That there are no actual consequences (good or bad) to their choices? Football teaches lessons. And not one of those lessons is that you always get the W. If that was what some people have been learning these years then they need to face Loyola more often until the actual lesson sets in. Joliet Central keeps showing up game after game to play and collect their L and they dont schedule city schools who are more down on their luck to get a cheap W. Joliet Central seems like they've learned the lesson. It being Rochester doesn't make it different.

I can see you are willing to die on this hill but I just want to know if you believe what you are saying.

 

[Cross Bones]

I can see you are willing to die on this hill but I just want to know if you believe what you are saying.

Yes. This exhibition game talk is absurd to me. You play a game, you win or lose. This everyone gets a trophy stuff is out of hand.

 

[ramblinman]

What lesson would that teach the kids? That there are no actual consequences (good or bad) to their choices? Football teaches lessons. And not one of those lessons is that you always get the W. If that was what some people have been learning these years then they need to face Loyola more often until the actual lesson sets in. Joliet Central keeps showing up game after game to play and collect their L and they dont schedule city schools who are more down on their luck to get a cheap W. Joliet Central seems like they've learned the lesson. It being Rochester doesn't make it different.

What lesson is the IHSA teaching to its members? It is teaching that it's within the rules for member schools to get a W without stepping foot on the field and back into the playoffs any way they can. Indeed, it's okay for member schools to get multiple Ws by forfeit and count them towards playoff qualification and seeding. The IHSA is teaching that It's okay to reward member schools for not playing football when given the option to take a W without playing a single down or risk an L by doing what is best for the kids.

 

[Cross Bones]

What lesson is the IHSA teaching to its members? It is teaching that it's within the rules for member schools to get a W without stepping foot on the field and back into the playoffs any way they can. Indeed, it's okay for member schools to get multiple Ws by forfeit and count them towards playoff qualification and seeding. The IHSA is teaching that It's okay to reward member schools for not playing football when given the option to take a W without playing a single down or risk an L by doing what is best for the kids.

So the solution to the alleged problem here is to award a W, the same W that you are saying is the problem?

 

[missingwalter]

What lesson would that teach the kids? That there are no actual consequences (good or bad) to their choices? Football teaches lessons. And not one of those lessons is that you always get the W. If that was what some people have been learning these years then they need to face Loyola more often until the actual lesson sets in. Joliet Central keeps showing up game after game to play and collect their L and they dont schedule city schools who are more down on their luck to get a cheap W. Joliet Central seems like they've learned the lesson. It being Rochester doesn't make it different.

Joliet Central does show up, usually not on time, but they get there.

 

[ramblinman]

So the solution to the alleged problem here is to award a W, the same W that you are saying is the problem?

I don't know what the solution is. Your solution of risking a sure W seems punitive to those schools that go out of their way to find their kids a game...against anyone...instead of sitting on their asses and taking the forfeit W that they didn't earn on the field.

 

[lurker74]

So the solution to the alleged problem here is to award a W, the same W that you are saying is the problem?

I agree. Using the Rochester v Loyola example, people seem to be upset that a team could get into playoffs with forfeit wins, but they also seem to be upset that Rochester wasn't allowed to get destroyed by Loyola AND also get their forfeit win???

 

[missingwalter]

I don't know what the solution is. Your solution seems punitive to those schools that go out of their way to find their kids a game...against anyone...instead of sitting on their asses and taking the forfeit W that they didn't earn on the field.

If I learned anything over the past 2 years, it's that the kids want to play more than anything else.

 

[lurker74]

Either way, this seems like something that IHSA needed to figure out a month ago, not during the season.

 

[ClownBaby]

If you play the game it should count and if you think it hurts your playoff chances take the forfeit W. If you are hoping to get into the playoffs by forfeit you are only gonna end up playing nine games or less anyway since you aren’t going past the first round.

 

[missingwalter]

If you play the game it should count and if you think it hurts your playoff chances take the forfeit W. If you are hoping to get into the playoffs by forfeit you are only gonna end up playing nine games or less anyway since you aren’t going past the first round.

Not having a game last Friday night, when almost everyone else did was terrible. I am however, happy our sophomores got to have a great crowd and different experience. Getting home at 7 wasn't bad either.
Actually 7:30, cause JC was late.

 

[corey90]

I

Why is this so hard to understand.....if a team forfeits for any reason fine. The point many (including myself) are trying to get across is shouldn't we try to encourage schools to keep playing and not just take a forfeit and sit out a week? Competition? Instead of discouraging teams from not seeking another opponent, why not try to at least encourage it instead? Allow teams to have the forfeit win AND allow them to play a game that week WITHOUT penalizing them win or lose? Isn't the job of the IHSA to help support and encourage and help promote high school athletics? That's all it is from my standpoint...

Why is this so hard to understand.....if a team forfeits for any reason fine. The point many (including myself) are trying to get across is shouldn't we try to encourage schools to keep playing and not just take a forfeit and sit out a week? Competition? Instead of discouraging teams from not seeking another opponent, why not try to at least encourage it instead? Allow teams to have the forfeit win AND allow them to play a game that week WITHOUT penalizing them win or lose? Isn't the job of the IHSA to help support and encourage and help promote high school athletics? That's all it is from my standpoint...

Sorry Edgy
I have to disagree with you on this one. I understand your reasoning of wanting to see the kids play but they can’t have their cake and eat it to. If you choose to schedule a game rather than take the forfeit I will applaud you but you as the coach my accept the consequences of a possible loss. I have no problem with the IHSA by law.

 

[corey90]

Either way, this seems like something that IHSA needed to figure out a month ago, not during the season.

They did figure it out. They didn’t change the bylaw.

 

[EdgyTim]

What lesson would that teach the kids? That there are no actual consequences (good or bad) to their choices? Football teaches lessons. And not one of those lessons is that you always get the W. If that was what some people have been learning these years then they need to face Loyola more often until the actual lesson sets in. Joliet Central keeps showing up game after game to play and collect their L and they dont schedule city schools who are more down on their luck to get a cheap W. Joliet Central seems like they've learned the lesson. It being Rochester doesn't make it different.

I totally get the pizza and trophy mentality, something I also disagree with 100 percent. I was looking at this from simply allowing kids to at least play a game as opposed to sitting at home waiting for the following week. And I'm hoping this begin to settle down and we don't see more and more increases in forfeits but if that happens we will see less and less games played....pretty sure no one wants to see that either....

 

[godfthr53]

My question is the cdc says a vaccinated person doesn't need to quarantine upon close contacts. So are these students unvaccinated or are there a lot of positive cases on these teams.

 

[SouthofI80FootballFan]

Regardless of the win or loss, making the playoffs or not, if I had a decision to make, it would be to play.

Oh Boy! You get forefit wins and get in the playoffs, with that mentality you will probably get bounced round 1. Do all you can to find an opponent and if the loss keeps you out of the playoffs so be it. At least the kids got to play and you never know if you will even be playing next week so might as well play while you can.

 

[Wassup13]

I believe Glenbard South is looking for a game.

 

[corey90]

Regardless of the win or loss, making the playoffs or not, if I had a decision to make, it would be to play.

Oh Boy! You get forefit wins and get in the playoffs, with that mentality you will probably get bounced round 1. Do all you can to find an opponent and if the loss keeps you out of the playoffs so be it. At least the kids got to play and you never know if you will even be playing next week so might as well play while you can.

Agree
Then don’t whine about getting a loss on your record. You can’t have it both ways otherwise it truly is an exposition game or a scrimmage. If your going to play a game make it count win or lose. Do you think those kids want a fake win when you lose? Come on!

 

[mc140]

Some of you seem upset teams are willing to take forfeit wins over scheduling a sure fire loss in its place.

 

[godfthr53]

Some of you seem upset teams are willing to take forfeit wins over scheduling a sure fire loss in its place.

I'll say it right now if any of our teams needed a 5th win in week 9 they all are taking the guaranteed W

 

[RunNorth-South]

I don't really have a horse in the race, so I don't care, but this narrative that the Rochester coach was "whining" kind of irks me since - to me - it's pretty clearly not what happened in the cited interview. D. Leonard was frustrated that no one outside of large school powerhouse Loyola was willing to play them last week. His point was that if the IHSA allowed some of the schools who had forfeits to keep their "W" but play Rochester, THOSE teams and his boys would have been able to play in a game that didn't involve such far travel.

As it was, the only way he could get his team an opportunity to get on the field was to drive 3 hours north and accept a butt-kickin' from the Ramblers. So that is what he willingly and knowingly did so that his boys could play. He conceded that he came into the game with tempered expectations (aka - knew they'd probably get beat up), but thought the right thing was to get his team playing. He also took the opportunity after the game to advocate for a rule change so that future weeks can have more kids playing and fewer teams weighing the pros/cons of taking a free "W" without any chance to play.

Seemed like an honest commentary and one that came from a coach who knew his own team need not be concerned with taking one in the loss column. I guess I just feel compelled to write this as I've been confused looking through some of these threads how some are misconstruing his words as "whining" when he's really just trying to champion a change to the rules that he believes would get more kids playing football every week... something I would think the big high school football fans on this board could all agree with. 🤷‍♂️

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Yes, Rochester's coach was whining about not being awarded a win after the LA game. Which is silly to me to want exhibition games against teams playing real games.

Considering the score I think LA thought it was a real game........

 

[ramblinman]

Agree
Then don’t whine about getting a loss on your record. You can’t have it both ways otherwise it truly is an exposition game or a scrimmage. If your going to play a game make it count win or lose. Do you think those kids want a fake win when you lose? Come on!

I see your point but disagree with it.

Your rationale says if you are going to play a game make it count win or lose. Seems reasonable except when you consider the circumstance of risking an accrued (note I didn't say earned) win to play a replacement game. The IHSA rationale is that if you aren't going to play a game because the other team forfeits, it's okay to count it as a win, but if you are in this for the kids and succeed in finding an opponent, you risk the bird in the hand. The IHSA is effectively encouraging schools to accept a W they didn't earn over taking a risk that they should be taking.

BTW, it's exhibition, not exposition.

 

[greatgig13]

I see your point but disagree with it.

Your rationale says if you are going to play a game make it count win or lose. Seems reasonable except when you consider the circumstance of risking an accrued (note I didn't say earned) win to play a replacement game. The IHSA rationale is that if you aren't going to play a game because the other team forfeits, it's okay to count it as a win, but if you are in this for the kids and succeed in finding an opponent, you risk the bird in the hand. The IHSA is effectively encouraging schools to accept a W they didn't earn over taking a risk that they should be taking.

BTW, it's exhibition, not exposition.

Actually it was an exposition from Loyola on how to play the game of football LOL.