IHSA "Open" Class

[DJrodey24]

So here in Arizona, they're trying out a new Open Division for the state tournament. Here's how it works...

-6 classes overall
-they take the top 8 teams in the big classes (6A, 5A, 4A)
-everyone else plays in 6 tournaments

...I'm curious to read how everyone would think that would work in Illinois. Top 8 teams? Top 16 teams? Top 24 teams? Would it be 6A, 7A, and 8A or would you add 5A to the conversation? Would it ruin the other classes or water down 8A or 7A? Would it end the private/public debate?

-Matt

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

So here in Arizona, they're trying out a new Open Division for the state tournament. Here's how it works...

-6 classes overall
-they take the top 8 teams in the big classes (6A, 5A, 4A)
-everyone else plays in 6 tournaments

...I'm curious to read how everyone would think that would work in Illinois. Top 8 teams? Top 16 teams? Top 24 teams? Would it be 6A, 7A, and 8A or would you add 5A to the conversation? Would it ruin the other classes or water down 8A or 7A? Would it end the private/public debate?

-Matt

Is it the top 8 total or 8 from reach of the 3 classes for 24 total? How/who determines the top teams? Do those teams have to opt in or are they forced in?

Regardless of any of that it obviously lowers the overall quality of the three classes they are leaving.

 

[mc140]

There are two teams below 8a that would voluntarily do this. Phillips and ESL.

 

[niualum2002]

So here in Arizona, they're trying out a new Open Division for the state tournament. Here's how it works...

-6 classes overall
-they take the top 8 teams in the big classes (6A, 5A, 4A)
-everyone else plays in 6 tournaments

...I'm curious to read how everyone would think that would work in Illinois. Top 8 teams? Top 16 teams? Top 24 teams? Would it be 6A, 7A, and 8A or would you add 5A to the conversation? Would it ruin the other classes or water down 8A or 7A? Would it end the private/public debate?

-Matt

For fun lets take the Top 16 from 8A, Top 10 from 7A, Top 6 from 6A, and seed them 1-32 based on record and playoff points.

You would then add 32 extra teams to those 3 classes to bring the playoff field to 288 for now and see what happens later with regards to IHSA proposals.

Here is what you get.

Open Class Seeds
#1 Mt. Carmel
#2 Minooka
#3 East St. Louis
#4 Glenbard West
#5 Lincoln Way East
#6 Nazareth
#7 Warren
#8 Chatham Glenwood
#9 Crete-Monee
#10 Rolling Meadows
#11 Oswego
#12 Homewood Flossmoor
#13 Richards
#14 Peoria
#15 Hersey
#16 Huntley
#17 South Elgin
#18 Bartlett
#19 Glenbard East
#20 Neuqua Valley
#21 Prairie Ridge
#22 Hinsdale Central
#23 Willowbrook
#24 Maine West
#25 Fremd
#26 Niles Notre Dame
#27 Maine South
#28 Edwardsville
#29 Batavia
#30 Phillips
#31 Normal Community
#32 Rockton Hononegah

Open Class Brackets
#32 Rockton Hononegah @ #1 Mt. Carmel
#31 Normal Community @ #2 Minooka
#30 Phillips @ #3 East St. Louis
#29 Batavia @ #4 Glenbard West
#28 Edwardsville @ #5 Lincoln-Way East
#27 Maine South @ #6 Nazareth
#26 Niles Notre Dame @ #7 Warren
#25 Fremd @ #8 Chatham Glenwood
#24 Maine West @ #9 Crete-Monee
#23 Willowbrook @ #10 Rolling Meadows
#22 Hinsdale Central @ #11 Oswego
#21 Prairie Ridge @ #12 Homewood Flossmoor
#20 Neuqua Valley @ #13 Richards
#19 Glenbard East @ #14 Peoria
#18 Bartlett @ #15 Hersey
#17 South Elgin @ #16 Huntley

 

[RD_Watcher]

For fun lets take the Top 16 from 8A, Top 10 from 7A, Top 6 from 6A, and seed them 1-32 based on record and playoff points.

You would then add 32 extra teams to those 3 classes to bring the playoff field to 288 for now and see what happens later with regards to IHSA proposals.

Here is what you get.

Open Class Seeds
#1 Mt. Carmel
#2 Minooka
#3 East St. Louis
#4 Glenbard West
#5 Lincoln Way East
#6 Nazareth
#7 Warren
#8 Chatham Glenwood
#9 Crete-Monee
#10 Rolling Meadows
#11 Oswego
#12 Homewood Flossmoor
#13 Richards
#14 Peoria
#15 Hersey
#16 Huntley
#17 South Elgin
#18 Bartlett
#19 Glenbard East
#20 Neuqua Valley
#21 Prairie Ridge
#22 Hinsdale Central
#23 Willowbrook
#24 Maine West
#25 Fremd
#26 Niles Notre Dame
#27 Maine South
#28 Edwardsville
#29 Batavia
#30 Phillips
#31 Normal Community
#32 Rockton Hononegah

Open Class Brackets
#32 Rockton Hononegah @ #1 Mt. Carmel
#31 Normal Community @ #2 Minooka
#30 Phillips @ #3 East St. Louis
#29 Batavia @ #4 Glenbard West
#28 Edwardsville @ #5 Lincoln-Way East
#27 Maine South @ #6 Nazareth
#26 Niles Notre Dame @ #7 Warren
#25 Fremd @ #8 Chatham Glenwood
#24 Maine West @ #9 Crete-Monee
#23 Willowbrook @ #10 Rolling Meadows
#22 Hinsdale Central @ #11 Oswego
#21 Prairie Ridge @ #12 Homewood Flossmoor
#20 Neuqua Valley @ #13 Richards
#19 Glenbard East @ #14 Peoria
#18 Bartlett @ #15 Hersey
#17 South Elgin @ #16 Huntley

What is interesting are the teams left out - specifically BR, Loyola and Bolingbrook. It appears this system would favor those teams who win in larger conferences where they don’t all eat each other.

 

[doctor_d]

Arizona do districts? Is the open class established prior to season?

I feel like there aren’t a whole lot of teams that would opt up. Teams can opt up now. but as mc140 pointed out, it’s pretty rare.

 

[DJrodey24]

Is it the top 8 total or 8 from reach of the 3 classes for 24 total? How/who determines the top teams? Do those teams have to opt in or are they forced in?

Regardless of any of that it obviously lowers the overall quality of the three classes they are leaving.

Just the top 8 total is how it's done here.

 

[DJrodey24]

Arizona do districts? Is the open class established prior to season?

I feel like there aren’t a whole lot of teams that would opt up. Teams can opt up now. but as mc140 pointed out, it’s pretty rare.

Yes they do districts. "Conferences" change every two years.

 

[mchsalumni]

Illinois has 40% more people than AZ and I’m going to take a guess there are at least 50% more kids playing HS football, considering the bulk of Phoenix is God’s waiting room.

Anyone out there with stats on number of HS football players in AZ and IL? I’d think this is too narrow a field based on headcount alone, but I could be wrong.

Are the 6 tournaments at the end still considered state titles or something lesser?

 

[reaperup]

In Cali, they use the calpreps calculations to actually make those types of decisions... Perhaps Arizona does too? I know there are more than 1 state that does.

 

[Wolffan64]

Illinois has 40% more people than AZ and I’m going to take a guess there are at least 50% more kids playing HS football, considering the bulk of Phoenix is God’s waiting room.

Anyone out there with stats on number of HS football players in AZ and IL? I’d think this is too narrow a field based on headcount alone, but I could be wrong.

Are the 6 tournaments at the end still considered state titles or something lesser?

Gods waiting room! It took me a minute. Good one!

 

[QBC16]

There are two teams below 8a that would voluntarily do this. Phillips and ESL.

Naz?

 

[mc140]

Naz?

No.

Only two football teams have volunteered to play up. ESL and Phillips. No one else has moved up without being forced to.

 

[anon_4vszfu35bv677]

No.

Only two football teams have volunteered to play up. ESL and Phillips. No one else has moved up without being forced to.

would you suggest that MC move up? How about 8a teams. Where would they go?

 

[mc140]

would you suggest that MC move up? How about 8a teams. Where would they go?

I am suggesting nothing. I am stating the fact that no one voluntarily moves up besides those two. Which is why an open class would never work. You would have Phillips, ESL and maybe a few 8a schools.

 

[corey90]

No.

Only two football teams have volunteered to play up. ESL and Phillips. No one else has moved up without being forced to.

I have asked this question before but didn’t get an answer. Why wouldn’t they petition to move up to 8A? Is their an IHSA rule that a team can’t move up more than 1 class? I am not trying to be a smart a#s just would like to know if it’s an option.

 

[mc140]

I have asked this question before but didn’t get an answer. Why wouldn’t they petition to move up to 8A? Is their an IHSA rule that a team can’t move up more than 1 class? I am not trying to be a smart a#s just would like to know if it’s an option.

No one wants to make their path harder. Except ESL and Phillips.

 

[corey90]

No one wants to make their path harder. Except ESL and Phillips.

That’s not the answer.

 

[mc140]

That’s not the answer.

Share with the class what it is then.

 

[doctor_d]

I am fairly certain that a team can petition upwards to any class they desire all the way up to 8A. Phillips is 3A/4A enrollment (575) playing in 7A.

I have asked this question before but didn’t get an answer. Why wouldn’t they petition to move up to 8A? Is their an IHSA rule that a team can’t move up more than 1 class? I am not trying to be a smart a#s just would like to know if it’s an option.

 

[doctor_d]

Anybody know the answer to this hypothetical?
Say a private school team were to petition up one class and subsequently win two championships while “playing up?” Would the SF push them up yet another class?

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

I am suggesting nothing. I am stating the fact that no one voluntarily moves up besides those two. Which is why an open class would never work. You would have Phillips, ESL and maybe a few 8a schools.

i would never ever ever ever ever opt up as a coach. the job of determining classes is the IHSA. coaches have enough to worry about, let alone whether their team can compete effectively in a larger class and then dealing with the parents angry about the second round loss for the 10-0 team...

 

[SteelGimlet]

I think the winner would be considered the real "State Champs". The other tournaments would be downplayed, and eventually "Prep Bowled" into insignificance. Of course, the angst and arguments over selecting the Open teams each year would be never ending.

 

[corey90]

I am fairly certain that a team can petition upwards to any class they desire all the way up to 8A. Phillips is 3A/4A enrollment (575) playing in 7A.

Thanks Dr.

 

[corey90]

No one wants to make their path harder. Except ESL and Phillips.

mc140
So if no one wants to make their path harder then them then why didn’t they petition up to 8A? I am fairly certain everyone believes the toughest class is 8A. If you want to be the best then play in the class with the toughest competition.

 

[caravan8]

mc140
So if no one wants to make their path harder then them then why didn’t they petition up to 8A? I am fairly certain everyone believes the toughest class is 8A. If you want to be the best then play in the class with the toughest competition.

I agree that 8A is the toughest class but I don’t think the winner of 8A is always the best team in the state. A few examples I can think of are 2013 when MC won 7A and was considered my many the best team in Illinois. Also in 2015 when GW won 7A I think a lot of people considered them the best team. An open class would be great as long as you could get 32 teams to opt in. I think it would take a couple years but eventually you could get it to be an unreal playoff.

 

[mc140]

mc140
So if no one wants to make their path harder then them then why didn’t they petition up to 8A? I am fairly certain everyone believes the toughest class is 8A. If you want to be the best then play in the class with the toughest competition.

LWE never petitioned up to 8a while they were a 7a school.

 

[stonedlizard]

Sounds more like a poor mans power point classification system then it does a true open class, but either way, I like the willingness to try something new.

Despite it's population differences, AZ is no stranger to select public/private schools consistently winning state titles.

 

[Wassup13]

So here in Arizona, they're trying out a new Open Division for the state tournament. Here's how it works...

-6 classes overall
-they take the top 8 teams in the big classes (6A, 5A, 4A)
-everyone else plays in 6 tournaments

...I'm curious to read how everyone would think that would work in Illinois. Top 8 teams? Top 16 teams? Top 24 teams? Would it be 6A, 7A, and 8A or would you add 5A to the conversation? Would it ruin the other classes or water down 8A or 7A? Would it end the private/public debate?

-Matt

It won't work here. There is a big difference between 6a and 8a.

 

[LHSTigers94]

mc140
So if no one wants to make their path harder then them then why didn’t they petition up to 8A? I am fairly certain everyone believes the toughest class is 8A. If you want to be the best then play in the class with the toughest competition.

I have answered this question several times however I will answer again. But before I do, I along with many other don’t think 8A Is the toughest class. It’s an opinion that I have had for several years. The fact the Eville is successful proves that to me. Not knocking anyone else opinion and understand if other have a different thought.

now ESL petitioned to 7A simply because that’s the class they played in since 2000. Instead of dropping down with the changes in enrollment, the coach wanted to compete in 7A. Being the best in the state is an opinion not a fact. Playing in 8A and winning does not guarantee that title.

 

[playboymixx]

I have asked this question before but didn’t get an answer. Why wouldn’t they petition to move up to 8A? Is their an IHSA rule that a team can’t move up more than 1 class? I am not trying to be a smart a#s just would like to know if it’s an option.

As far as ESL, according to some posters on here, supposedly Coach Sunkett believes that 7a is the toughest class. I kind of doubt that he truly believes that. Winning an 8a championship doesn't necessarily mean that you're the best team in the state, but generally speaking, 8a is the toughest championship to win.

 

[playboymixx]

I have answered this question several times however I will answer again. But before I do, I along with many other don’t think 8A Is the toughest class. It’s an opinion that I have had for several years. The fact the Eville is successful proves that to me. Not knocking anyone else opinion and understand if other have a different thought.

now ESL petitioned to 7A simply because that’s the class they played in since 2000. Instead of dropping down with the changes in enrollment, the coach wanted to compete in 7A. Being the best in the state is an opinion not a fact. Playing in 8A and winning does not guarantee that title.

Eville having some success in 8a proves that 8a isn't the toughest class? Strange logic. Eville had more success in 7a than 8a.

 

[LHSTigers94]

As far as ESL, according to some posters on here, supposedly Coach Sunkett believes that 7a is the toughest class. I kind of doubt that he truly believes that. Winning an 8a championship doesn't necessarily mean that you're the best team in the state, but generally speaking, 8a is the toughest championship to win.

I disagree but respect your opinion.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Eville having some success in 8a proves that 8a isn't the toughest class? Strange logic. Eville had more success in 7a than 8a.

Proves that 8A isn’t hands down the toughest class. An argument can be made for both 7A and 8A.

 

[playboymixx]

Proves that 8A isn’t hands down the toughest class. An argument can be made for both 7A and 8A.

lol It seems like every time that this is brought up, you ignore the fact that the argument about 8a being the toughest is a generalization, not an absolute. Most believe that generally speaking, 8a is the toughest class, but that may not necessarily always be the case every single year. The same can be said about 7a. There may be years when 6a or 5a is tougher than 7a, but generally speaking, 7a is typically tougher.

 

[LHSTigers94]

lol It seems like every time that this is brought up, you ignore the fact that the argument about 8a being the toughest is a generalization, not an absolute. Most believe that generally speaking, 8a is the toughest class, but that may not necessarily always be the case every single year. The same can be said about 7a. There may be years when 6a or 5a is tougher than 7a, but generally speaking, 7a is typically tougher.

I completely understand and simply voice my opinion that I personally think 7A is stronger most years.

 

[dweise]

Why can't ESL petition up? Read it has something to do with their conference. What is the conference's reason for not allowing it?

 

[mc140]

Why can't ESL petition up? Read it has something to do with their conference. What is the conference's reason for not allowing it?

They don't want to get beat in the playoffs by them as they already lose their players to them.

 

[dweise]

They don't want to get beat in the playoffs by them as they already lose their players to them.

not sure I understand that reasoning but ok. Thanks for the response.

 

[playboymixx]

They don't want to get beat in the playoffs by them as they already lose their players to them.

I think it's a few things. I do agree and think that it has something to do with the transfer problem, but there are also other reasons like not wanting conference teams eliminating each other ever year in the playoffs. That certainly applies to other sports more so than football, but I think the hope is for more success like what was had in basketball last year. Another reason, and I hate to say this, but I do think that animosity and hatred towards E. St. Louis could also be a factor, at least from some schools in the conference.