ESL and the SWC...

[RoaminCatholic]

Rocketnation answered in post 221. Not so much as they do not want to face them in the playoffs, more like multiple state titles in conference like when ccl blue has more than one team win title. Been answered too many times will be my last time addressing it. Thread is about Central state 8 Not ESL.

I'm confident the answer amongst fans is likely a resounding "yes" but has the admin and the district ever considered just going independent?

What is the gain for ESL in their current conference setup?

Is it loyalty? History? Safety and assurance? All the other athletic programs?

I understand scheduling and guaranteed games may be at the forefront. Trust me, I understand how important that can be coming from our situation here in Quincy the past 30 years. And I also understand a district and an admin have to consider more than just it's football program in terms of conference agreements and such. But I do strongly feel as though ESL more than any program in this state promotes itself as a "national program." I've had a couple conversations with others who have no ties to ESL about how they consider ESL to be "Illinois' team" simply bc they're the ones making an effort to go out and schedule ranked or top tier games from around the country. I guess in my head doing so means surely you could find 9 games a year without the gimmies within the SWC (aside from Edwardsville, no offense to Edwardsville here at all btw) and the bums who don't want to see a team in their conference go win at the highest levels. Like imo I'd WANT to see a team I lined up against and got spanked by go on and take on the "big boys" up in Chi every November. But as just a casual fan on the outside looking in at the ESL program I also want to see them go out and compete against some of the other states' better programs at a higher clip and THEN come back to Illinois and take a shot at a 7A or 8A gauntlet run. And I'm aware a 7A/8A title or even title game appearance isn't a given for ESL annually.

Not trying to upset you or beat the dead horse here, flyerforlife, just curious. I just can't quite understand what the conference, or the Flyers program for that matter, are clinging on to with the current situation. It feels like the fans who follow the Flyers the closest are sick of the "rule" keeping them from going after the top flights in IHSA football... surely the district hears the frustration mounting, right?

 

[jotapepe]

ESL could easily go independent, especially with the new and improved SWC being big enough to absorb the loss of East Side.

The whole point of the conference, though, is to have known, reliable opponents. East Side only has to work to schedule four games a year now, as opposed to the nine they'd have to find if they were independent. Their travel time would go way up (not necessarily a good thing for high school kids at a boundary-based public school) and with that their expenses. And people will start asking, if they haven't already, why so much money is going to one athletic program in a poor school district.
They're not going to find many Illinois opponents willing to make the long drive in Weeks 4-8 so they'd have to go national. And the SWC also helps their gates; I'm willing to bet more Alton or O'Fallon fans will pay to get in to ESL's stadium (and this would apply equally to the new additions to the SWC), even if they know going in they're likely to get smacked, than IMG or Bishop Gorman or whoever brings. Also probably true that a good number of local ESL fans want to play the local teams so they can say they're that much better than all those other teams.
The other question for ESL is how long does this level of dominance last? In 2014 East Side lost both nonconference games, as well as to Edwardsville, Belleville West, and (in the playoffs) Peoria Notre Dame. In 2015, before the teachers strike, they'd lost to Montini and Belleville West. True, they're probably the best team in the state in all classes right now (at worst #3), but the time will likely come that they would want to be able to play the local teams again. East Side may eventually go back to just being a "normal" great program on the level of, say, a Batavia or Rochester (which most teams in this state would dream of). Would those other local teams let East Side back in after they had told them, in effect, that they were too good for them?

So staying in the SWC is probably better than going, even if it includes them only being able to bump up one class. And the other side of this is that 6A isn't necessarily that much of a step down in skill for ESL, at least in terms of the very best teams they play. We know they lost to Cary-Grove in 2021 and 2023. In 2022, they beat Lemont in the semis by 3 points. In 2019, the games against Glenwood and Prairie Ridge were at least mildly competitive. Even this last year Geneva was down by only six points to East Side in the middle of the third quarter. ESL is probably better served not to try to fly too close to the sun.

 

[jotapepe]

Oh, and one last thing: if ESL does play a national schedule, are we certain they get to 5-4?

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Has anyone gotten ahold of the conference By-laws to read it? To allow a team to play up just ONE class then go out and play national powers across America seems pretty f*cked up even for Illinois, which is saying a lot. I've chatted with coaches from Texas, Missouri, here in Alabama and in Illinois and they can't believe what I'm telling them.

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Oh, and one last thing: if ESL does play a national schedule, are we certain they get to 5-4?

EStL would be stupid to schedule 9 power teams and I don't think they would. There will be some cupcakes sprinkled in to get them to 5 wins. After 9 games against stiffer competition I can only guess to how many injuries the Flyers would have. Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of EStL since the 70s. They are the Boise St of Illinois football: Anywhere and anytime! You can NOT get mad about that!~

 

[EdgyTim]

Why change anything?

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Why change anything?

Not asking for change, or even suggesting it, simply tossing out questions since there always seems to be a cloud of confusion over ESL and what they are or are not allowed to do. I understand fully what flyer and others say about the conference and their rules to keep conference teams from potentially playing each other in the playoffs. I don't agree with it, but I understand it and respect the school's decision to abide by it. I was simply curious if this was just talk amongst fans or if there was ever actually any real consideration in taking a shot at an independent national schedule. Plus I was trying to get a couple posters a new thread to talk ESL since they began cluttering up the CS8 thread.

Regardless, I love what ESL is doing. I think I've made that pretty clear on here in the past. I don't have anything negative to say about the program. If anything, they've become the defacto representatives of "Illinois football" whatever that brand means outside our borders.

And, based on the few responses here so far, it's appears quite clear that the district likely clings to the SWC for guaranteed games that require less travel to help control the fiscal aspect of playing a type of schedule they do these days. Which is absolutely smart. Idk who's funding the rest and I don't care. It's awesome to see these kids get some TV games and showcase their program, their school, their city, their state.

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Oh, and one last thing: if ESL does play a national schedule, are we certain they get to 5-4?

This is really where I was headed with this... I was curious also.

Initially I'd say sure! How could they not? But then again I suppose that depends on, just like those with non-conf in-state, how aggressively you schedule. The top rankings in the country are littered with beatable teams. But there's also some programs that just annually put out juggernauts. The one's who can actually recruit, house student-athletes, etc.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Simple, there is more than just football in the ESL athletics department and it would be a nightmare to not have conference affiliation for the rest of the sports.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Not asking for change, or even suggesting it, simply tossing out questions since there always seems to be a cloud of confusion over ESL and what they are or are not allowed to do. I understand fully what flyer and others say about the conference and their rules to keep conference teams from potentially playing each other in the playoffs. I don't agree with it, but I understand it and respect the school's decision to abide by it. I was simply curious if this was just talk amongst fans or if there was ever actually any real consideration in taking a shot at an independent national schedule. Plus I was trying to get a couple posters a new thread to talk ESL since they began cluttering up the CS8 thread.

Regardless, I love what ESL is doing. I think I've made that pretty clear on here in the past. I don't have anything negative to say about the program. If anything, they've become the defacto representatives of "Illinois football" whatever that brand means outside our borders.

And, based on the few responses here so far, it's appears quite clear that the district likely clings to the SWC for guaranteed games that require less travel to help control the fiscal aspect of playing a type of schedule they do these days. Which is absolutely smart. Idk who's funding the rest and I don't care. It's awesome to see these kids get some TV games and showcase their program, their school, their city, their state.

On one hand I understand creating topics to discuss however, as Edgy posted, what would be the motivation to do something different? A school should leave a conference just to play 7A or 8A in the post season? To me that would be pretty dumb. Right now there isn't an issue from the ESL perspective. As far as independent scheduling, most schools view playing ESL like the schools in Illinois. It's hit or miss if they will actually schedule the game every year. Only IMG and St. Frances will sign up to play every year. Everyone else is year to year.

 

[crusader_of_90]

To compete at that level annually, there would need to be some shifts in how things are done. This is not a large area from which we draw - we'd need to drain most talent from STL to play a true national schedule.

 

[4Afan]

Why does a national schedule need to consist of 9 nationally ranked teams? Not saying they should schedule an average team from North Dakota, but why are we talking like every game needs to be against IMG or Bishop Gorman? They could easily have a national schedule and still make the playoffs. You'd still get Illinois teams to play ESL plus 2 or 3 marquee games.