Darkside Ranking; 2015, Vol. 4 - Halftime Edition

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Programing Note to start. My averages are slightly off from last week. For some reason, google is not calculating the last two columns. A cursory review shows no change in placement, only slight changes in average rank. I fixed it this week and will do some retro fixing later...not that it will matter any more.

First...A great week is upon us. So far as I can remember, this is the deepest we have gone with every ranked DS team being undefeated, something the DS considers overrated. In any case, this fact might come to an end this week. Loads of great games. Here are some we are following:

NC @ Batavia

Benet @ Naz

HC @ GW

Eds @ Flyer (really wish Eds would schedule a wk1/2 chicago-area team)

MC @ Rice

Barrington @ Conant

+Bonus: Game on the come: Two weeks - HF vs LWE.

Okay Back to our regularly scheduled DSR:

Slightly different format s this week...

Note on the PFs and PA...HF has the highest PF to date at 275 and HF has given up the most points at 59. No one's schedule to date is really mindblowing, especially to compared to years past. I think Bronco is probably leading the charge...maybe.

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Tearline
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...cC26AE4lL5z68Ho28KTUUHfGk/edit#gid=1263828911

11.55 (10.44) Phillips:

Best Win: Simeon 29-18

PF: 212 - PA:41

What’s coming: Rochster somewhere in the playoffs...weeks and weeks and weeks away.

Comment: This might be Phillips last week in the DSR. There are just too many heavyweights that are close. Based on class size and more importantly success and stronger SoS...some of these heavyweights are going to get back in...and Phillips is likely the loser. That said, if this is Phillips last hurrah, much props for achieving such high praise on a board largely consumed by 7-8 lovers. Nothing to be ashamed of.
​

8.73 (9.3) HC:

Best Win: none. no op with winning record..7-18

PF: 226 - PA: 59

What’s coming: GW next week and OPRF in week 9.

Comment: I’ll admit, they way things went preseason, I was certain the newly arrived HC fans would be hemming and hawing all season about their sedimentary DS Rank at ~9 . But no...they’ve been patient...and in all likelihood waiting in the cut like a bandaid for this week’s game. I’m not going to say it’s put up or shut up time for HC...this is a very tough game in a very tough environment. There are three scenarios for HF: Win and likely vault into the top 5; Lose a close game and likely remain near the 9/10 spot; get crushed and aurevoir - at least until week 9 (assuming OPRF is still around at that time). This is the game of the week.
​

7.91 (8.2) OPRF:

Best Win: LWE 14-13

PF: 176- PA: 52

What’s coming: GW in two weeks and HC in week 9

Comment: OPRF gets to lay back and watch GW-HC this week...a nice advantage. It’s clear the DSR likes OPRF… their best win this year is a 1 pointer over LWE (whom I ranked 10 this week). We’re two weeks away from finding out whether the DS nailed this one. Last season, OPRF hit the DS #4 spot twice...then fell off after the GW game. Will be interesting to see if history repeats itself.
​

6.55 (NR) Libertyville:

Best Win: Ummm oh yeah...35-7 Stevenson.

PF: 221 - PA: 42

What’s coming: LZ...not the best of the LZ teams in recent past, but they always play solid.

Comment: Damn, Libertyville looked fantastic this week. . I’m buying stock - as is the entire DSR panel. Libertyville goes from NR to receiving a 4, three 5s, and being ranked by every panel member. Few schools in DSR history have risen so fast...but not so fast, we still keep them outside the top 5. Really wish there was a tougher game remaining on the schedule...but alas...we get a down LZ. That said, Libertyville is big, fast, and has a star in Mr. Lees. After this week, 7a looks a little more interesting. On a side note, Libertyville's gamecube video is tops: good announcers, instant replay, great camera work, etc etc etc….boy those public schools - i feel so bad for them, they are so disadvantaged in attracting players…”we even have a jumbotron.”​

5.55 (5.56) MC:

Best Win: Marist

PF: 173 - PA: 28

What’s coming: Rice this week LA week 9

Comment: The SoS is a little weaker than usual at this point for MC. Their best win - against a NR Marist was only by 7 points. Furthermore, nothing seems to standout about this MC team. That said, the SoS is not awful and the defense has only given up 28 points through 5 weeks. MC hosts Rice in what is destined to be a dog fight - even if it's a blowout...It's worth repeating, MC is the most polarizing team in the DS this year. I think we find out the truth this week.​

5.27 (5.67) JCA:

Best Win: 4-1 mcc

PF: 199 - PA:51

What’s coming: Naz in two weeks, then Benet, then Marist

Comment: A number of voters bumped JCA up this week, this homer included. JCA’s line are just dominate this season - and may be the best in State on both sides. Teams are going to have to be able to run and pass on them to have a chance. Naz, Benet, and Marist all can. JCA has Naz in two weeks and gets the benefit of having a down marian catholic this week...meanwhile Naz gets a tough benet as a prelude to JCA.​

5.18 (4.3) Montini:

Best Win: flyer at flyer

PF: 161 - PA: 38

What’s coming: Two weeks away from Bronco facing 4-1 SF (SF only loss to Rice)

Comment: A few voters flip-flopped the JCA-Montini rankings this week - admittedly, I homered out on that one too. Bronco’s got one big game left - SF...everyone knows SF is licking their chops. Bronco is sooooo used to that though...gone are the days of Bronco losing many regular season games.
​

3.36 (3.4) GW:

Best Win: Hins S. 50-31

PF: 230 - PA:52

What’s coming: HC this weekend. At home. Grass like corn stalks. Pure coincidence, I was told.

Comment: Unless GW gets taken to the woodshed, they’ll remained ranked. IMO, this game really is about HC and determining their value. Sorry GW...we’ll see you again next week against OPRF. A quality win against both likely drives GW to 1.
​

2.09 (1.9) LA:

Best Win: Brother Rice: 28-0;

PF: 201 - PA: 31.

What’s coming: MC week 9, LA’s last real challenge.

Comment: Not a lot to say about Rambler. The SoS is down due to a softer than normal Blue and their next big game is not until MC in week 9. That shut out of Rice says a lot, however. Just no miss steps this week against PC...If GW runs the table, don't be surprised if LA and HF below get surpassed.
​

1.27 (1.1) HF:

Best Win: Stevenson 43-29;

PF: 274 - PA: 50.

What’s coming: LWE in two weeks...closer than the experts think.

Comment: Still number 1, but the SoS is not what it used to be with Libertyville HFing Stevenson to all the way to the woodshed. It’s just really hard to ignore the ease of their victories and the talent. The LWE match up in two weeks will be a fun one for sure. LWE seems to know how to play HF better than most...and HF is right on the cusp of the DSR. If this game is close, and GW defeats HC and OPRF, HF may lose it's #1 ranking at the last possible moment...even if they go 9-0. No team has gone start to finish #1 in the DS...can HF hold on? Time will tell​

 

[Dino brown]

Great job putting this list together

 

[pjjp]

Nice job, JCH. I like this week's format.

If Batavia beats NC this week, they will be in my DSR next week. That would give them wins over Oswego, South Elgin, St. Charles No. and NC. I'd have a hard time voting Phillips ahead of them.

 

[ramblinman]

What happened to the DSR that I knew and could always count on for the straight dope?

The DSR that I knew thumbed its nose at convention. It prided itself on finding diamonds in the rough. It was, dare I say, edgy (no offense intended to Himself). The DSR I knew took risks.

Exactly what is risky about 7 of the 11 DSR voters ranking H-F at #1, with 3 votes at #2? Nothing, and that's a problem!

Frankly, I’m disappointed in the DSR. I was hoping for so much more than you’ve given. This is the DSfreakingR…and all of you except DSR voter MCHS (who ranked H-F at #3 this week) sadly and simply are letting the rest of us down.

I’m taking on H-F this week. In the interest of fairness, I am taking on H-F and the H-F apologists for the very same reason that I took on Naz and the Naz apologists a few weeks ago.

What has H-F done on the field to deserve the utmost respect of the DSR such that it has been ranked #1 since volume one was released after week two? Not enough, not nearly enough! Let’s examine H-F’s results through week 5:

H-F (5-0)
Opponents’ combined records: 7-18
Number of opponents with winning records: 1
Signature win: 43-29 over Stevenson (3-2) in week 1
# of quality wins: 1 (if you can count Stevenson as a quality win)

When H-F beat Stevie in week one, we all thought that was a strong quality win for H-F and we were duly impressed. Even though week one is ancient history, and we are now in the second half of the season, you DSR voters are voting as if it were week one. You are voting H-F way too high, despite the fact that we all know now that H-F beating Stevie is nowhere near as special as we thought it was. You all have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight with respect to what has happened this season, and you aren’t using it!

Last Friday afternoon, and in reference to edgytim ranking Stevie at #9, pjjp said, “no way Stevie should be ranked #9 based on this year's results.” To his credit, pjjp took a risk and challenged convention (and edgy), and he did so before Stevenson lost badly to Libertyvile that very evening. It turns out that pjjp was spot on.

At the time, and before that evening’s games, I agreed with pjjp that Stevenson did not deserve a #9 ranking, but then I asked him how he could justify H-F at #1 if Stevie is H-F’s lone quality win.

Here is part of pjjp’s response to my original question before Stevie went down in flames: “How do I justify ranking H-F #1? It's the manner of victory and an evaluation of the talent on the roster. They have blown everyone out with the exception of Stevenson.” He then went on to say, “This again gets to the essence of the DSR rankings. Quality wins are the most important factor, but it's not the end-all-be-all. There is some subjectivity built in that allows voters to evaluate the talent on a team's roster, in addition to the more objective measure of quality of wins”.

Okay, I get that the DSR is subjective. It has to be. I even get that SOS and quality wins are not the sole criteria. However, it has been my impression all along that the DSR puts substantial emphasis on SOS and quality wins and less emphasis on talent and potential. As pjjp points out, this is the essence of the DSR rankings. I agree! It’s what gives the DSR its real cachet and what makes the DSR the dark side!

Even if you allow for talent and potential to be criteria in DSR ranking, how much weight do you give the criteria of talent and potential relative to the weight you give SOS and quality wins? Equal weight? Less weight? More (yikes) weight?

It looks to me like almost all of you are giving more weight to the criteria of talent and potential than you are to the criteria of SOS and quality wins. You have to be doing that in order to have H-F ranked at #1. Now, if you were to have H-F ranked in the middle or bottom of the DSR pack, then I would say that you are allowing talent and potential to influence the time honored DSR criteria of SOS and quality wins, and I would be somewhat okay with that. As it stands now with your practically unanimous fawning over H-F, all of you (except possibly the DSR voter MCHS) are guilty of allowing talent and potential to completely supplant (not just influence) what has happened on the field and against whom it has happened. Your obsession with a talent-rich (but basically unproven and untested) H-F reminds me of a bunch of preteen and adolescent girls screaming and hyperventilating over the trendiest boy band.

On several occasions, the DSR has been described as a what have you done for me lately ranking. Well, exactly what has H-F done for you all lately? Please, answer that question. Lately, as in weeks 2, 3, 4 and 5, H-F’s opponents of the past four weeks have an utterly underwhelming combined record of 4-16! H-F's lone quality win came way back in week one over a team that had been 0-0 and that was defending 8A state champs. Currently, that team is 3-2 and lost very badly over this past weekend.

Pay very close attention to what I am about to say. I’m not saying that H-F isn’t talented. I’m not saying that they won’t be playing on Thanksgiving weekend. This is not a rant against the H-F players or staff or school. What I am saying is that H-F has proven very little so far this season because of the weakness of their schedule and they don’t deserve to be #1 in the DSR ranking.

You want to talk strength of schedule, dominance, good coaching and good talent? Then you should be singing the praises of Batavia, but only one of you deigned to rank them this week.

You want to talk strength of schedule, dominance, good coaching and good talent? Then you should be salivating over Phillips. Yes, PHILLIPS -- the same Phillips that JCHILL and pjjp seem ready to move down the DSR food chain in favor of more of the bigger schools that might only have one loss. Five of you don’t even have Phillips in your top ten! Only one of you has ranked them higher than #9. CLEARLY, Phillips has played tougher competition than H-F, and has looked good in beating that competition. Both JCA and Phillips put up 41 points on Carmel within a week of each other. However, Phillips had to travel to Mundelein to play Carmel and Carmel had to travel to Joliet to play JCA. Also, Phillips limited the Corsairs to 7 points, while Carmel put up 21 on the Hilltoppers. How is it that Phillips is dead last in the DSR top ten and JCA is in the #5 spot? How I would love to see a JCA/Phillips matchup!

I take heart that three of you saw fit to rank LWE this week (although none of you ranked them higher than 10). Here is what LWE has done so far this year: The Griffins are 4-1. Their lone loss came by a 14-13 score at OPRF (5-0). Since that game, OPRF has gone on to average 40 points a game and LWE has four straight wins (including three shutouts). Find room for the Griffins in the DSR (as long as it is not at the expense of Phillips).

LWE just shutout the Brook this past weekend. In previous years, just beating the Brook, much less shutting them out, meant a whole a lot more than it means this year. So, if you use that logic for not ranking LWE higher after beating the Brook in week five, why aren’t you using it when looking at H-F’s lone ”quality” win over Stevie…in week ONE??? Certainly, we can all agree that a win over Stevie this year isn’t anywhere near as impressive as it would have been last year.

For those of you who think that I am advocating for a new DSR #1 in LA, you couldn’t be any more wrong. Although LA has played a more competitive schedule than H-F, I can think of other 5-0 schools that have played tougher competition overall. In the spirit of what have you done for me lately, LA beating SICP and Fenwick in the last two weeks hasn’t done anything for me. In fact, I think gooms has the Ramblers about right this week.

One more thing…

In the Benet/Marist thread from last week, and in response to a poster who claimed that there were three ESCC teams better than Montini, JCHILL opined that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC. However, after having ranked JCA behind Montini for the first three volumes of the DSR, JCHILL moved ESCC front runner JCA ahead of Montini in this most recent DSR volume, just days after he stated that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC.

JCHILLTOPPERS, who you crappin’?

 

[pjjp]

Your obsession with a talent-rich (but basically unproven and untested) H-F reminds me of a bunch of preteen and adolescent girls screaming and hyperventilating over the trendiest boy band.

Ouch...that one hurt. I don't want to sound as if I'm copping out, but you raise some very valid points. IMO, based on play on the field and and an evaluation of the talent on their rosters, the top three are clear (H-F, Loyola and GBW). I will rethink next week's pick of #1, especially if GBW beats HC. I do think you downplay the quality of Loyola's wins a bit too much. Running clocking MS and shutting out BR are very impressive wins. I think Loyola took their foot off the gas against BR. Clearly, H-F's win against Stevenson (in week 2) has been lessened.

I'm struggling with Phillips. I think they have the talent to play with anyone, but that schedule is just so weak. It's not their fault, but if you look at my above post I addressed Batavia. I don't see how they can be kept out of the DSR, if they beat NC this week. As you said, the DSR is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately poll. Phillips just won't have any quality wins remaining on their schedule, while other teams are playing much tougher competition.

Score differential in the CoM games for JCA and Phillips is a bit dicey. JC was up 41-7 against the Corsairs and cruised home....allowing CoM to get two late TD's. I will say, though. I rank JCA 8th for the reasons you raise above. The quality of their wins were not as good as I expected them to be (ie Provi and WN).

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

What happened to the DSR that I knew and could always count on for the straight dope?

The DSR that I knew thumbed its nose at convention. It prided itself on finding diamonds in the rough. It was, dare I say, edgy (no offense intended to Himself). The DSR I knew took risks.

Exactly what is risky about 7 of the 11 DSR voters ranking H-F at #1, with 3 votes at #2? Nothing, and that's a problem!

Frankly, I’m disappointed in the DSR. I was hoping for so much more than you’ve given. This is the DSfreakingR…and all of you except DSR voter MCHS (who ranked H-F at #3 this week) sadly and simply are letting the rest of us down.

I’m taking on H-F this week. In the interest of fairness, I am taking on H-F and the H-F apologists for the very same reason that I took on Naz and the Naz apologists a few weeks ago.

What has H-F done on the field to deserve the utmost respect of the DSR such that it has been ranked #1 since volume one was released after week two? Not enough, not nearly enough! Let’s examine H-F’s results through week 5:

H-F (5-0)
Opponents’ combined records: 7-18
Number of opponents with winning records: 1
Signature win: 43-29 over Stevenson (3-2) in week 1
# of quality wins: 1 (if you can count Stevenson as a quality win)

When H-F beat Stevie in week one, we all thought that was a strong quality win for H-F and we were duly impressed. Even though week one is ancient history, and we are now in the second half of the season, you DSR voters are voting as if it were week one. You are voting H-F way too high, despite the fact that we all know now that H-F beating Stevie is nowhere near as special as we thought it was. You all have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight with respect to what has happened this season, and you aren’t using it!

Last Friday afternoon, and in reference to edgytim ranking Stevie at #9, pjjp said, “no way Stevie should be ranked #9 based on this year's results.” To his credit, pjjp took a risk and challenged convention (and edgy), and he did so before Stevenson lost badly to Libertyvile that very evening. It turns out that pjjp was spot on.

At the time, and before that evening’s games, I agreed with pjjp that Stevenson did not deserve a #9 ranking, but then I asked him how he could justify H-F at #1 if Stevie is H-F’s lone quality win.

Here is part of pjjp’s response to my original question before Stevie went down in flames: “How do I justify ranking H-F #1? It's the manner of victory and an evaluation of the talent on the roster. They have blown everyone out with the exception of Stevenson.” He then went on to say, “This again gets to the essence of the DSR rankings. Quality wins are the most important factor, but it's not the end-all-be-all. There is some subjectivity built in that allows voters to evaluate the talent on a team's roster, in addition to the more objective measure of quality of wins”.

Okay, I get that the DSR is subjective. It has to be. I even get that SOS and quality wins are not the sole criteria. However, it has been my impression all along that the DSR puts substantial emphasis on SOS and quality wins and less emphasis on talent and potential. As pjjp points out, this is the essence of the DSR rankings. I agree! It’s what gives the DSR its real cachet and what makes the DSR the dark side!

Even if you allow for talent and potential to be criteria in DSR ranking, how much weight do you give the criteria of talent and potential relative to the weight you give SOS and quality wins? Equal weight? Less weight? More (yikes) weight?

It looks to me like almost all of you are giving more weight to the criteria of talent and potential than you are to the criteria of SOS and quality wins. You have to be doing that in order to have H-F ranked at #1. Now, if you were to have H-F ranked in the middle or bottom of the DSR pack, then I would say that you are allowing talent and potential to influence the time honored DSR criteria of SOS and quality wins, and I would be somewhat okay with that. As it stands now with your practically unanimous fawning over H-F, all of you (except possibly the DSR voter MCHS) are guilty of allowing talent and potential to completely supplant (not just influence) what has happened on the field and against whom it has happened. Your obsession with a talent-rich (but basically unproven and untested) H-F reminds me of a bunch of preteen and adolescent girls screaming and hyperventilating over the trendiest boy band.

On several occasions, the DSR has been described as a what have you done for me lately ranking. Well, exactly what has H-F done for you all lately? Please, answer that question. Lately, as in weeks 2, 3, 4 and 5, H-F’s opponents of the past four weeks have an utterly underwhelming combined record of 4-16! H-F's lone quality win came way back in week one over a team that had been 0-0 and that was defending 8A state champs. Currently, that team is 3-2 and lost very badly over this past weekend.

Pay very close attention to what I am about to say. I’m not saying that H-F isn’t talented, nor I’m not saying that they won’t be playing on Thanksgiving weekend. This is not a rant against the H-F players or staff or school. What I am saying is that H-F has proven very little so far this season because of the weakness of their schedule and they don’t deserve to be #1 in the DSR ranking.

You want to talk strength of schedule, dominance, good coaching and good talent? Then you should be singing the praises of Batavia, but only one of you deigned to rank them this week.

You want to talk strength of schedule, dominance, good coaching and good talent? Then you should be salivating over Phillips. Yes, PHILLIPS -- the same Phillips that JCHILL and pjjp seem ready to move down the DSR food chain in favor of more of the bigger schools that might only have one loss Five of you don’t even have Phillips in your top ten! Only one of you has ranked them higher than #9. CLEARLY, Phillips has played tougher competition than H-F, and has looked good in beating that competition. Both JCA and Phillips put up 41 points on Carmel within a week of each other. However, Phillips had to travel to Mundelein to play Carmel and Carmel had to travel to Joliet to play JCA. Also, Phillips limited the Corsairs to 7 points, while Carmel put up 21 on the Hilltoppers. How is it that Phillips is dead last in the DSR top ten and JCA is in the #5 spot? How I would love to see a JCA/Phillips matchup!

I take heart that three of you saw fit to rank LWE this week (although none of you ranked them higher than 10). Here is what LWE has done so far this year: The Griffins are 4-1. Their lone loss came by a 14-13 score at OPRF (5-0). Since that game, OPRF has gone on to average 40 points a game and LWE has four straight wins (including three shutouts). Find room for the Griffins in the DSR (as long as it is not at the expense of Phillips).

LWE just shutout the Brook this past weekend. In previous years, just beating the Brook, much less shutting them out, meant a whole a lot more than it means this year. So, if you use that logic for not ranking LWE higher after beating the Brook in week five, why aren’t you using it when looking at H-F’s lone ”quality” win over Stevie…in week ONE??? Certainly, we can all agree that a win over Stevie this year isn’t anywhere near as impressive as it would have been last year.

For those of you who think that I am advocating for a new DSR #1 in LA, you couldn’t be any more wrong. Although LA has played a more competitive schedule than H-F, I can think of other 5-0 schools that have played tougher competition overall. In the spirit of what have you done for me lately, LA beating SICP and Fenwick in the last two weeks hasn’t done anything for me. In fact, I think gooms has the Ramblers about right this week.

One more thing…

In the Benet/Marist thread from last week, and in response to a poster who claimed that there were three ESCC teams better than Montini, JCHILL opined that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC. However, after having ranked JCA behind Montini for the first three volumes of the DSR, JCHILL moved ESCC front runner JCA ahead of Montini in this most recent DSR volume, just days after he stated that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC.

JCHILLTOPPERS, who you crappin’?

I can only give a short answer right now, and it is one that i hinted in when writing up the DSR.

Because to a sense, you are correct, this week's DSR is a bit stale...libertyville was a predictable add- in and HF remains at 1 again.

However, as I pointed out, the SoS for almost every team worth a good rank, is attackable and week. I felt compelled to write in GW's, LA's, and HF that GW might jump into the 1 spot...

It's also why i added the best win for each team and what's next. Typically, by this time each year, the DSR includes teams that have loses....but there are simply zero candidates worth a rank. In fact, zero DS ranked teams have faced each other this year...another anomaly.

That all changes this week - thank god - and again, is why i added games I a really looking forward to in the original thread.

Not a single team in the state has more than 1 very good win under their belt...so frankly, at this time.

I'll go point to point this evening.

 

[goomsback]

1st of all, MCHS has 2 #1's. 1 of them is wrong.

2nd of all, ramblinman, the reason why I have Loyola as low as I do is because A: They haven't beat anyone of significance yet (neither has HF or GBW for that matter) and B: I don't trust them in the playoffs. And I won't trust them unless they win a state title. They'll have to win out to get a my #1 vote.

 

[goomsback]

I will also note that I ranked Naz #2 in week 3. Well that failed miserably. I also ranked Libertyville in week 3. Looks like a good call. I'm not ranking any of the DVC unless they're 7-1 or 8-1 because I can't figure it out. I'm not going to lie: I did not see who Batavia has beaten until just now. Batavia's big games will be this week vs. NC and week 8 vs Geneva. Another team on the radar should be Huntley if they beat Jacobs and CLS this week and next. That would make them 7-0 with very good wins over 3 teams (beat CG last week). I might have ranked HC too high. We'll find out Saturday.

 

[redmen85]

I will also note that I ranked Naz #2 in week 3. Well that failed miserably. I also ranked Libertyville in week 3. Looks like a good call. I'm not ranking any of the DVC unless they're 7-1 or 8-1 because I can't figure it out. I'm not going to lie: I did not see who Batavia has beaten until just now. Batavia's big game will be week 8 vs Geneva. Another team on the radar should be Huntley if they beat Jacobs and CLS this week and next. That would make them 7-0 with very good wins over 3 teams (beat CG last week). I might have ranked HC too high. We'll find out Saturday.

Batavia beat Oswego week 1. That is a quality win in my opinion. I saw oswego play and they looked good to me.

 

[goomsback]

I believe you redmen

 

[DeanOfSelection]

In terms of SHG and DSR-after 6A I am more then happy to put them in. I cannot rank them right now not playing who they are. After 6A, if they handle a LWW, LWN then Montini like last 2 years they are in.

 

[mchsalumni]

1st of all, MCHS has 2 #1's. 1 of them is wrong.

2nd of all, ramblinman, the reason why I have Loyola as low as I do is because A: They haven't beat anyone of significance yet (neither has HF or GBW for that matter) and B: I don't trust them in the playoffs. And I won't trust them unless they win a state title. They'll have to win out to get a my #1 vote.

Great point Gooms. My cut, paste and move around teams nature of ranking isn't working, obviously...

 

[mchsalumni]

@JCHILLTOPPERS, mine should be this:

1. GW
2. LA
3. HF

 

[ramblinman]

2nd of all, ramblinman, the reason why I have Loyola as low as I do is because A: They haven't beat anyone of significance yet (neither has HF or GBW for that matter) and B: I don't trust them in the playoffs. And I won't trust them unless they win a state title. They'll have to win out to get a my #1 vote.

gooms, let me preface my response to you by saying I agree with where you have LA this week. But, now that you've explained why you have them where you do, I feel compelled to explain that I think you have them there for reasons that seem a little fishy to me. Again, I'm not trying to defend LA or suggest that they should be higher. Rather, I am asking you to examine your logic/rationale for placing them where you do.

"They haven't beaten anyone of significance yet."

Would you characterize a 4-1 Rice as insignificant? MS is 3-2 so far this year. One of their two losses was by 3 pts at Montini (a team you have ranked at #9), and the other was a home game they lost to LA by a score of 49-8 (a team you have ranked #6). I daresay that LA destroying MS 49-8 is more significant and impressive than H-F beating Stevie 43-29. LA also beat a decent team from Milwaukee that is 4-2.

You parenthetically add that other teams like H-F and GW haven't beaten anyone of significance, so I'm wondering why you are holding LA to a different standard.

Now, if you want to say that LA hasn't beaten anyone of significance LATELY, then I'm good with that.

"I don't trust them in the playoffs."

How big of a hit did you take in LA's close losses to NC and the Brook in recent 8A title games? Don't let a financial setback 2 and 4 years ago influence how you vote in the DSR. I see you have H-F at #1. Does that mean you had money on Stevie last year? What have H-F and Libertyville done in recent years playoff wise to earn more of your trust than you are willing to give to the Ramblers?

"I won't trust them unless they win a state title. They'll have to win out to get a my #1 vote."

I'm pretty sure that the DSR only goes through week 9 and does not extend through the end of the playoffs. Regardless, I respectfully suggest that the DSR is not about how a team will do on Thanksgiving weekend.

The DSR is a week-to-week, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately snapshot. And that's why I think you have the Ramblers about right at #6 this week.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

Typically there is a hiatus after week 9 until after title games for DSR.

 

[epicbret]

Very few teams have SOS and the wins. HF has won convincingly and that's why they are at 2. If GW wins this week they shoot to 1 perhaps

 

[MS4EVER]

Two things.
1. Put Ramblin on the panel.
2. Continue the DSR through the playoffs.

 

[PowerI66]

Batavia beat Oswego week 1. That is a quality win in my opinion. I saw oswego play and they looked good to me.

While that might be a quality win, I saw some glaring issues with Batavia when I watched them play South Elgin. First, their offensive line is very suspect. Multiple times I saw them getting beaten off the ball, and letting men cross their face in pass pro. Big no-no. Second, their defensive backs were beaten on go routes somewhere between 8-12 times during the course of the game. Unfortunately for South Elgin, the ball was over thrown every single time but one (underthrown). I would be very wary of putting them in the DSR.

 

[redmen85]

While that might be a quality win, I saw some glaring issues with Batavia when I watched them play South Elgin. First, their offensive line is very suspect. Multiple times I saw them getting beaten off the ball, and letting men cross their face in pass pro. Big no-no. Second, their defensive backs were beaten on go routes somewhere between 8-12 times during the course of the game. Unfortunately for South Elgin, the ball was over thrown every single time but one (underthrown). I would be very wary of putting them in the DSR.

My take on Oswego. I have not seen Batavia. All I know is Oswego lost week 1 to the Bulldogs.
Oswego
Left tackle going to NIU.
A 6'7" receiver who also handles the kicking and punting
A team capeable of beating you with either the run or the pass.
...and did I mention a D-1 QB?
To me, that's all the makings of a quality football team.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

With Batavia it will come out in the wash v NC this week and Geneva. It will work itself out.

 

[goomsback]

gooms, let me preface my response to you by saying I agree with where you have LA this week. But, now that you've explained why you have them where you do, I feel compelled to explain that I think you have them there for reasons that seem a little fishy to me. Again, I'm not trying to defend LA or suggest that they should be higher. Rather, I am asking you to examine your logic/rationale for placing them where you do.

"They haven't beaten anyone of significance yet."

Would you characterize a 4-1 Rice as insignificant? MS is 3-2 so far this year. One of their two losses was by 3 pts at Montini (a team you have ranked at #9), and the other was a home game they lost to LA by a score of 49-8 (a team you have ranked #6). I daresay that LA destroying MS 49-8 is more significant and impressive than H-F beating Stevie 43-29. LA also beat a decent team from Milwaukee that is 4-2.

You parenthetically add that other teams like H-F and GW haven't beaten anyone of significance, so I'm wondering why you are holding LA to a different standard.

Now, if you want to say that LA hasn't beaten anyone of significance LATELY, then I'm good with that.

"I don't trust them in the playoffs."

How big of a hit did you take in LA's close losses to NC and the Brook in recent 8A title games? Don't let a financial setback 2 and 4 years ago influence how you vote in the DSR. I see you have H-F at #1. Does that mean you had money on Stevie last year? What have H-F and Libertyville done in recent years playoff wise to earn more of your trust than you are willing to give to the Ramblers?

"I won't trust them unless they win a state title. They'll have to win out to get a my #1 vote."

I'm pretty sure that the DSR only goes through week 9 and does not extend through the end of the playoffs. Regardless, I respectfully suggest that the DSR is not about how a team will do on Thanksgiving weekend.

The DSR is a week-to-week, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately snapshot. And that's why I think you have the Ramblers about right at #6 this week.

As JC has said no one has more than 1 solid win as of right now. That will change as of this week more than likely. Maine South is not the Maine South we grew to know and love (or hate). Rice seems solid, not spectacular. Having that said we need to keep the DSR's throughout the playoffs, especially this year. And I have not bet 1 dollar on any high school football game in my life . If Loyola wins 8A, I'll also eat my words

 

[goomsback]

In terms of SHG and DSR-after 6A I am more then happy to put them in. I cannot rank them right now not playing who they are. After 6A, if they handle a LWW, LWN then Montini like last 2 years they are in.

We can't rank SHG or Rochester until after week 9. That's when they play each other. Whether the IHSA will invalidate either win because the booster club bought a state championship ring is another story,...

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

Rambl in bold.

You want to talk strength of schedule, dominance, good coaching and good talent? Then you should be salivating over Phillips. Yes, PHILLIPS -- the same Phillips that JCHILL and pjjp seem ready to move down the DSR food chain in favor of more of the bigger schools that might only have one loss. Five of you don’t even have Phillips in your top ten! Only one of you has ranked them higher than #9. CLEARLY, Phillips has played tougher competition than H-F, and has looked good in beating that competition. Both JCA and Phillips put up 41 points on Carmel within a week of each other. However, Phillips had to travel to Mundelein to play Carmel and Carmel had to travel to Joliet to play JCA. Also, Phillips limited the Corsairs to 7 points, while Carmel put up 21 on the Hilltoppers. How is it that Phillips is dead last in the DSR top ten and JCA is in the #5 spot? How I would love to see a JCA/Phillips matchup!​

I have zero doubt in my mind that HF will defeat Philips. I cannot be dishonest - ranking Phillips over HF. As to comparing scores etc...I can't get into that. There are a lot of factors that come into play in individual games. I like looking at PF and PA over a season, I think it gives you patterns.

----------------------------------

I take heart that three of you saw fit to rank LWE this week (although none of you ranked them higher than 10). Here is what LWE has done so far this year: The Griffins are 4-1. Their lone loss came by a 14-13 score at OPRF (5-0). Since that game, OPRF has gone on to average 40 points a game and LWE has four straight wins (including three shutouts). Find room for the Griffins in the DSR (as long as it is not at the expense of Phillips).​

LWE just shutout the Brook this past weekend. In previous years, just beating the Brook, much less shutting them out, meant a whole a lot more than it means this year. So, if you use that logic for not ranking LWE higher after beating the Brook in week five, why aren’t you using it when looking at H-F’s lone ”quality” win over Stevie…in week ONE??? Certainly, we can all agree that a win over Stevie this year isn’t anywhere near as impressive as it would have been last year.
​

Sometimes it takes a few weeks to work oneself into the DS. LWE has a long and established place in the DS. I also have seen LWE play a few times this season. LWE has looked more impressive each time. Some times as a team matures through a season...so does there DSR. The loss to OPRF along with what is now a series of solid looking victories sends a message. The issue with LWE is that there are a lot of teams in their position...Batavia, Barrington, NC, Naz, Oswego....

-----------------------------

For those of you who think that I am advocating for a new DSR #1 in LA, you couldn’t be any more wrong. Although LA has played a more competitive schedule than H-F, I can think of other 5-0 schools that have played tougher competition overall. In the spirit of what have you done for me lately, LA beating SICP and Fenwick in the last two weeks hasn’t done anything for me. In fact, I think gooms has the Ramblers about right this week.​

First, I seen nothing wrong with advocating for LA...especially given (J) above. With HF, a lot of it has to do with talent and success as the panel (7 of us at least) seem to think comports with what we anticipated we would see from HF...still (J) above....

Don't forget, Rice, LA's biggest win, was one play away from losing last week...


One more thing…

In the Benet/Marist thread from last week, and in response to a poster who claimed that there were three ESCC teams better than Montini, JCHILL opined that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC. However, after having ranked JCA behind Montini for the first three volumes of the DSR, JCHILL moved ESCC front runner JCA ahead of Montini in this most recent DSR volume, just days after he stated that Montini would be the favorite in the ESCC.

JCHILLTOPPERS, who you crappin’?
​

Are they still doing that who you crappin piece down there on the radio?

Oh Rambl, you were so so close this week...and you thought you twisted the dagger here at the end, but alas, I perry and turn your triumph to tragedy.

Typically, you don't make these mistakes...you actually quoted me correctly, which is the odd part.

"Mchs wld be the favorite in the escc." - what I wrote

that is a much much much different statement than:

"I would pick MCHS to be the favorite in the escc."

Zero doubt in my mind, the public would pick MCHS to win the ESCC this year - as demonstrated in everyone's rankings. Zero doubt in my mind, personally, as of this week, I am not in that category.

Comeon Rambl, you know i'm better/more clever than that!

In any case, once again, I appreciate your commentary and look forward to more of it.

 

[emillika]

The trouble with the PA and PF for teams who have the unfortunate(?) situation of sitting starters after halftime and sometimes sooner. Do you extrapolate out the scores when considering this as a measurement?

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

The trouble with the PA and PF for teams who have the unfortunate(?) situation of sitting starters after halftime and sometimes sooner. Do you extrapolate out the scores when considering this as a measurement?

That and the op...when teams leave starters in too long. PF and PA are very subjective very very. PF and PA are more of just interesting points than anything else. Scoring 42 and 70 mean the exact same thing on a game to game basis. Plus, it's hard to know unless you watch how many points were scored on defense, special teams...accident....

When you look at a team like Bronco against a sub par team, you just want to be sure they took care of business.

 

[emillika]

That and the op...when teams leave starters in too long. PF and PA are very subjective very very. PF and PA are more of just interesting points than anything else. Scoring 42 and 70 mean the exact same thing on a game to game basis. Plus, it's hard to know unless you watch how many points were scored on defense, special teams...accident....

When you look at a team like Bronco against a sub par team, you just want to be sure they took care of business.

Makes sense.

 

[godfthr53]

That and the op...when teams leave starters in too long. PF and PA are very subjective very very. PF and PA are more of just interesting points than anything else. Scoring 42 and 70 mean the exact same thing on a game to game basis. Plus, it's hard to know unless you watch how many points were scored on defense, special teams...accident....

When you look at a team like Bronco against a sub par team, you just want to be sure they took care of business.

Exactly many wouldn't know that if I remember correctly MCC is the only team to score on Naz D