Coolest Illinois high school nicknames bracket

[4Afan]

That's fair. I'm not really looking for any response. I know I'm capable of a civil conversation about this topic versus slamming my fists and simply saying "why can't y'all just leave my potentially offensive nicknames alone" like the other guy did.

Just feels like you reside in the same camp as most who are as pasty white as you've described. Which is the camp that has never been threatened, been persecuted, herded off their land, or enslaved because of the color of their skin. At least the majority of pasty whites in this country haven't. You find it funny because it's not something that historically you've had to worry about. That's really all I'm getting at. Compassion for other's feelings and values and cultures isn't that hard, stubbornness and lack of understanding of others' cultures, feelings, and values is certainly rampant in this country, however. I'll let it go at that. Enjoy that hoodie, my guy.

Being from Morris this is a very realistic conversation going forward.

Let me ask, are you Native American? Does this offend you personally? Or are you just another pasty white person telling me and others how we should feel about a completely separate group of people?

To the best of my knowledge there has been no outcry from any Native Americans in the Northern Illinois area that have come forward and said that they were offended or felt threatened by the Redskin name. For most people that have gone through Morris Community High School it is a designation of great pride to be a Redskin. In my time in school it was never mocked, belittled, or looked down upon. It is something that is carried throughout the community. There are two youth football programs and one is called the Chiefs and the other the Warriors. One of the Jr. High's used to be called the Braves.

 

[RoaminCatholic]

Being from Morris this is a very realistic conversation going forward.

Let me ask, are you Native American? Does this offend you personally? Or are you just another pasty white person telling me and others how we should feel about a completely separate group of people?

To the best of my knowledge there has been no outcry from any Native Americans in the Northern Illinois area that have come forward and said that they were offended or felt threatened by the Redskin name. For most people that have gone through Morris Community High School it is a designation of great pride to be a Redskin. In my time in school it was never mocked, belittled, or looked down upon. It is something that is carried throughout the community. There are two youth football programs and one is called the Chiefs and the other the Warriors. One of the Jr. High's used to be called the Braves.

I am not a native American. The outcry you speak of does exist, although not necessarily in every county in Illinois, sure. It prompted the Illini to take action in their area not so long ago prior to what's been seen from professional sports franchises more recently. Some natives used to congregate and protest in front of Memorial stadium and Assembly Hall prior to and after games when I was a kid in the 90s.

I've never understood, however, why certain white people get defensive when other white people defend other races, cultures, or minority groups and how they feel. To me that just proves the issue is deeper than what we see on the surface. A blanket statement of "well it's not happening in my area means it isn't a problem" is simply choosing ignorance, in my opinion. I find you a wealth of knowledge at many times 4Afan, so please don't take this as me simply calling you out personally. It's a larger problem than that. I'm simply answering your question, sir.

Again, you've never been the hunted, so to speak, simply the hunter. This is nothing more than me saying if some native people take offense to us dressing up like their ancestors and parading around, it should be a no brainer that we as a different culture simply remove this and find something that isn't offensive to them to use. That's all. I'm sure the people of Morris are proud, I don't think anyone has ever questioned that. But the name itself was created and used as a derogatory term for native people. That's all it should take to remove it from our vocabulary. We've created plenty of words for other cultures, religions, and races that we don't name our sports teams after.

 

[4Afan]

I am not a native American. The outcry you speak of does exist, although not necessarily in every county in Illinois, sure. It prompted the Illini to take action in their area not so long ago prior to what's been seen from professional sports franchises more recently. Some natives used to congregate and protest in front of Memorial stadium and Assembly Hall prior to and after games when I was a kid in the 90s.

I've never understood, however, why certain white people get defensive when other white people defend other races, cultures, or minority groups and how they feel. To me that just proves the issue is deeper than what we see on the surface. A blanket statement of "well it's not happening in my area means it isn't a problem" is simply choosing ignorance, in my opinion. I find you a wealth of knowledge at many times 4Afan, so please don't take this as me simply calling you out personally. It's a larger problem than that. I'm simply answering your question, sir.

Again, you've never been the hunted, so to speak, simply the hunter. This is nothing more than me saying if some native people take offense to us dressing up like their ancestors and parading around, it should be a no brainer that we as a different culture simply remove this and find something that isn't offensive to them to use. That's all. I'm sure the people of Morris are proud, I don't think anyone has ever questioned that. But the name itself was created and used as a derogatory term for native people. That's all it should take to remove it from our vocabulary. We've created plenty of words for other cultures, religions, and races that we don't name our sports teams after.

I don't take offense to anything you say and have no issue with you disagreeing with me, but it just doesn't make sense to me if the group of people who are the subject are not offended why another group would try to tell them that they should be offended. Did those protesting in DC and Champaign represent all Native Americans? It's not just in this instance but we need to stop letting the minority who screams the loudest always get their way when it doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority.

In Morris' case my solution was that they keep the Redskin name, but make Native American studies required curriculum in order to graduate and have it taught by a Native American. After 5 or so years survey those students and get their thoughts on changing the name after being educated.

Perfect example, outside of sports is Uncle Ben's rice. The logo and the name came from an actual Chicago chef and his family had no issue with the name or the likeness but a group of white people told another group of white people that it was offensive to a completely different group of people, even thought that group of people had no issue with it. Why create an issue that isn't there? Do people feel better when they create a fake sense of guilt?

Should I be offended by Fighting Irish or Vikings because I am of Irish and Scandinavian decent and both have a violent history/connotation? Where does it end?

 

[RoaminCatholic]

I don't take offense to anything you say and have no issue with you disagreeing with me, but it just doesn't make sense to me if the group of people who are the subject are not offended why another group would try to tell them that they should be offended. Did those protesting in DC and Champaign represent all Native Americans? It's not just in this instance but we need to stop letting the minority who screams the loudest always get their way when it doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority.

In Morris' case my solution was that they keep the Redskin name, but make Native American studies required curriculum in order to graduate and have it taught by a Native American. After 5 or so years survey those students and get their thoughts on changing the name after being educated.

Perfect example, outside of sports is Uncle Ben's rice. The logo and the name came from an actual Chicago chef and his family had no issue with the name or the likeness but a group of white people told another group of white people that it was offensive to a completely different group of people, even thought that group of people had no issue with it. Why create an issue that isn't there? Do people feel better when they create a fake sense of guilt?

Should I be offended by Fighting Irish or Vikings because I am of Irish and Scandinavian decent and both have a violent history/connotation? Where does it end?

I understand your points. I'm not the one with the answer. And it's ok that we disagree about this topic. I'm not here to demand you remove the name or the image attached to it. I'm simply stating my questions and confusion with why something derogatory can't simply be changed to appease a small group of people in this country who at times and in places have told us they don't care for it much.

I attended a school that used a native American as it's mascot for decades. We removed it while I was there, but the name Raiders remained. I personally thought they should have just changed the nickname if they were going to take away the mascot and images of it. My original comments about Morris were simply directed at the guy who likened the Redskin name with us using animals (not humans) and other objects/things as mascots as if to say they're one in the same. I didn't agree with that.

I'm firmly in the small group of people that think nicknames are pointless and in many cases just dumb. I prefer the English/soccer model of just using your town/neighborhood, whatever location, as your identity. Some of them have nicknames they've acquired over the years they use but to outsiders the name of the team is simply the name of their town or club. Why couldn't Quincy Notre Dame just be QND? Why couldn't Morris just be Morris? The pride you spoke of in your last post is pride that stems from being native to the town of Morris and the football program. The name Redskin could have been absent from that and the pride you display or feel would remain the same. I guess that's what drew me to comment in the first place.

 

[4Afan]

I understand your points. I'm not the one with the answer. And it's ok that we disagree about this topic. I'm not here to demand you remove the name or the image attached to it. I'm simply stating my questions and confusion with why something derogatory can't simply be changed to appease a small group of people in this country who at times and in places have told us they don't care for it much.

I attended a school that used a native American as it's mascot for decades. We removed it while I was there, but the name Raiders remained. I personally thought they should have just changed the nickname if they were going to take away the mascot and images of it. My original comments about Morris were simply directed at the guy who likened the Redskin name with us using animals (not humans) and other objects/things as mascots as if to say they're one in the same. I didn't agree with that.

I'm firmly in the small group of people that think nicknames are pointless and in many cases just dumb. I prefer the English/soccer model of just using your town/neighborhood, whatever location, as your identity. Some of them have nicknames they've acquired over the years they use but to outsiders the name of the team is simply the name of their town or club. Why couldn't Quincy Notre Dame just be QND? Why couldn't Morris just be Morris? The pride you spoke of in your last post is pride that stems from being native to the town of Morris and the football program. The name Redskin could have been absent from that and the pride you display or feel would remain the same. I guess that's what drew me to comment in the first place.

Using soccer as an analogy? Ok, now you lost me.🤣 🤣

Regarding the highlighted part of your post, I honestly don't have an answer for that because "Redskin pride never dies" was always a motto and it's all I've ever known so I can't speak to whether or not the town would feel the same way if the name were removed. I know there have been some pretty contentious board meetings on the topic.

Ultimately it's all for not as the name is being changed due to the small offended groups and the IHSA forcing their hand by threatening to not let them host post season regionals, sectionals, etc.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I don't take offense to anything you say and have no issue with you disagreeing with me, but it just doesn't make sense to me if the group of people who are the subject are not offended why another group would try to tell them that they should be offended. Did those protesting in DC and Champaign represent all Native Americans? It's not just in this instance but we need to stop letting the minority who screams the loudest always get their way when it doesn't necessarily reflect the opinions of the majority.

In Morris' case my solution was that they keep the Redskin name, but make Native American studies required curriculum in order to graduate and have it taught by a Native American. After 5 or so years survey those students and get their thoughts on changing the name after being educated.

Perfect example, outside of sports is Uncle Ben's rice. The logo and the name came from an actual Chicago chef and his family had no issue with the name or the likeness but a group of white people told another group of white people that it was offensive to a completely different group of people, even thought that group of people had no issue with it. Why create an issue that isn't there? Do people feel better when they create a fake sense of guilt?

Should I be offended by Fighting Irish or Vikings because I am of Irish and Scandinavian decent and both have a violent history/connotation? Where does it end?

Man, it's really flippant lazy to pretend Vikings and Native mascots are on the same level. Viking culture slowly eroded between 1000-1200 years ago and absorbed into other European culture. (obviously not without war and conflict)

Native Americans started undergoing mass genocide a mere ~500 years ago, with events like Trail of Tears happening less than 200 years ago. And still have living people directly connected to those tribes and carrying on tribal affiliation.

 

[4Afan]

Man, it's really flippant lazy to pretend Vikings and Native mascots are on the same level. Viking culture slowly eroded between 1000-1200 years ago and absorbed into other European culture. (obviously not with war and conflict)

Native Americans started undergoing mass genocide a mere ~500 years ago, with events like Trail of Tears happening less than 200 years ago. And still have living people directly connected to those tribes and carrying on tribal affiliation.

So then what is the statue of limitations on when you can use a moniker?

The history of Native Americans and how they have been treated is terrible and a definite stain on our nations history and it should not be forgotten. That being said the origin of "Redskin" was not that of a negative connotation, that came in the late 1800's. You can read this and choose to believe whichever side you want, but the term was originally used as a quite literal one.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...e said to,differentiate between the two races.

 

[Snetsrak61]

So then what is the statue of limitations on when you can use a moniker?

The history of Native Americans and how they have been treated is terrible and a definite stain on our nations history and it should not be forgotten. That being said the origin of "Redskin" was not that of a negative connotation, that came in the late 1800's. You can read this and choose to believe whichever side you want, but the term was originally used as a quite literal one.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/09/09/220654611/are-you-ready-for-some-controversy-the-history-of-redskin#:~:text=The Beothuk were said to,differentiate between the two races.

If there's genocide? Can't complain about no stature if limitation. But less than saying that everyone has to agree on obvious offensive or not designations, it's still an obviously silly analogy that pretty explicity ignores why native names an imagery are controversial.

To the point of language or symbolism. It's always changing. Its how language works and we can't hang our hat on "the meaning changed" it's a natural consequence of language particularly if a marginalized group is involved.

 

[Sterling Warrior]

I chose my top 24 and made a bracket. Enjoy ranking them.

https://bracketfights.com/create/coolest-illinois-high-school-nicknames-71635/

This is no joke and you can look it up if you don’t believe me, but there’s a town in Michigan we used to snowmobile in and they are the nimrods

 

[Wilmatucky]

This is no joke and you can look it up if you don’t believe me, but there’s a town in Michigan we used to snowmobile in and they are the nimrods

YES! Somebody I know has a vacation place nearby there. Nimrod also means "fearsome hunter". Not sure when it became an insult.