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Amendment Proposals IHSA

Given the anti-private school transfer rules, implementation of a recruiting radius, multipliers, success factors, etc., I'd say that if private schools don't feel like the IHSA is out to get them that they are the ones who are the nut jobs with their head in the sand.

Let the record show that you are the one to start the name calling. I will not respond in kind. Keep it up, though. Let your true colors shine through.

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I see you are letting the IHSA live rent free in your head.. the current rules are slanted to favor the private schools in a major way, but you still cry when the IHSA tries to balance the rules out a little way. people like you are the reason there is a lot of uneasiness with the private schools, they have the edge because they can recruit, but guys like you still cry from the highest mountain when the IHSA makes an attempt to make it fairer.

You completely lack any understanding of small school sports and how they function, you think what apples to 8A football in the suburbs also applies to 3A football around Springfield..
 
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The CCL/ESCC may be a better baseball conference than a football conference.

Who is going to watch?? Who is going to sponsor it? Who will be willing to host it? Who is going to organize it? Any TV or streaming coverage?

IHSA isn't perfect, but they do a fantastic job of organizing events and promoting them across the entire state and from what I have seen most private schools do a lousy job of being organized and often let egos get in the way.. if they would ever separate classes, the private school kids would lose out if the private schools let their ego get in the way and formed their own association.. and most public-school fans wouldn't miss them at all.
 
Honest question, is this something the student population cares about? Is this something students talk about or is it just HS football degenerates like us?

I don't think students care as much as us. Some of them believe it would be cool to play with their former teammates, classmates, friends, etc., but that's more football players because the other kids can still play club, AAU, travel, etc. with their friends.
 
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anyone really going to even notice if the private schools held a track meet???

Who notices now?

Is Charleston Illinois overrun with private school teams and fans on that one weekend in late May? Is Harvest Christian Academy going to sorely miss competing with Salt Fork HS in 1A?
 
Where is all this money coming from for scholarships for athletes? I'm sure some can pull it off but the majority of these schools operate on a very tight budget and would struggle mightily to keep up.
The alums would have to front even more money than they already do for that now. No one really goes for free. Someone else covers it.
 
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Honest question, is this something the student population cares about? Is this something students talk about or is it just HS football degenerates like us?
From sending my sons through the ranks of HS sports over the past too many years, no they don’t, but I remind them that some day they will. Would you have cared as a teenager? They play because they love it, they want to play in college and earn a possible scholarship or grant, or because they think it will help them get girls....😉
 
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Who notices now?

Is Charleston Illinois overrun with private school teams and fans on that one weekend in late May? Is Harvest Christian Academy going to sorely miss competing with Salt Fork HS in 1A?

How about basketball, wrestling and volleyball which are all fairly large events in Champaign and Normal. All I am saying is that it works very well in Tennessee and nobody complains, but it also what they are used to and the private schools don't have a sense of entitlement embedded into their mentality because it has always been that way..

And in my time here I have been to about 10 of the private schools here, the Illinois private schools can only dream of having the facilities they have here
 
they have the edge because they can recruit,

No they don't, and you repeating it over and over ad nauseum does not prove that they do. For the umpteenth time with you, the ABILITY to recruit students does not directly translate to extraordinary athletic success for private schools across the board.

You love to crow that I have no idea about small downstate schools. Perhaps I don't. So what? What kind of idea do you have about private schools other than you can't stand them?

What kind of edge does Josephinum have? Lycée Français de Chicago? Islamic Foundation School? Roycemore? How has their ability to recruit translated to an uneven playing field with public schools?
 
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No they don't, and you repeating it over and over ad nauseum does not prove that they do. For the umpteenth time with you, the ABILITY to recruit students does not directly translate to extraordinary athletic success for private schools across the board.

You love to crow that I have no idea about small downstate schools. Perhaps I don't. So what? What kind of idea do you have about private schools other than you can't stand them?

What kind of edge does Josephinum have? Lycée Français de Chicago? Islamic Foundation School? Roycemore?

And this is it exactly, 100%... you admit knowing nothing about the small schools and downstate, but they you state for a fact that the private schools don't recruit.

As for the 4 schools you mention that suck at sports, its clearly not something of importance.. don't be a coward and stand behind them as your reasoning that other schools don't recruit.. that's weak as shit there

Which is why I respect my Mac buddies even though I hate their school. they admit they recruit and admit they have top tier athletes going there that are not paying a dime and then they laugh about it.
 
Good question. Some schools would have more to offer than others. Smaller, less financially stable private schools would have very little to spend in this area, but how much is really needed to make an impact? "All this money," as you are suggesting, is probably not all that much.
When you are playing LaSalle-Peru or Mendota in the playoffs, you do not need much to put you over the top. When you have to compete vs MC and Loyola, you need a hell of a lot more.
 
And this is it exactly, 100%... you admit knowing nothing about the small schools and downstate, but they you state for a fact that the private schools don't recruit.

Which is why I respect my Mac buddies even though I hate their school. they admit they recruit and admit they have top tier athletes going there that are not paying a dime and then they laugh about it.
Once again, reading comprehension is proving elusive for you.

Where have I said that private schools don't recruit? They ALL recruit. They HAVE to recruit to survive.

My POINT, as it has ALWAYS been, is that a private school's ABILITY to recruit students does not automatically translate to an edge on the athletic fields over public schools.
 
Once again, reading comprehension is proving elusive for you.

Where have I said that private schools don't recruit? They ALL recruit. They HAVE to recruit to survive.

My POINT, as it has ALWAYS been, is that a private school's ABILITY to recruit students does not automatically translate to an edge on the athletic fields over public schools.
It depends if the school wants to put the resources into it.. if they do, its hard to not be a successful in athletics as a private school in Illinois
 
What I think is getting lost her is that everyone has their football blinders on. How do any of these proposals, separate classes, or new organizations for private schools play out outside of football? Do any of these things everyone is talking about benefit private school athletics as a whole or just football? Does the swimming team benefit from leaving the IHSA? Does track & field benefit from private schools having their own classes? How do Illinois private schools outside of the Chicagoland area benefit from any of this? How does a school like SHG benefit by having to travel great distances to play other private schools in various sports because there are very few other private schools that are close in size in their area?

Because while a private football bracket might do ok within a certain segment of the state it would hurt most of the other sports and those kids.. anyone really going to even notice if the private schools held a track meet??? Baseball? Tennis? Plus those all would be money losers..


Minimal impact on regular season in olympic sports, unless IHSA bans plays against kids from other athletic associations which would really impact lots of downstate schools. IHSA only runs the state championship series.
 
It depends if the school wants to put the resources into it.. if they do, its hard to not be a successful in athletics as a private school in Illinois
So, pretty similar to public schools then. See Hinsdale Central, New Trier, etc.
 
I have read a lot of talk about the financial issues this amendment would cause the private schools. I would like to see how many high profile athletes from outside the 15 mile radius pay full tution at some of the private schools.
I have no issue with parents wanting a private education for their children. But I know of high profile athletes paying nothing at private schools and coming home to their $400k houses.
 
I have read a lot of talk about the financial issues this amendment would cause the private schools. I would like to see how many high profile athletes from outside the 15 mile radius pay full tution at some of the private schools.
I have no issue with parents wanting a private education for their children. But I know of high profile athletes paying nothing at private schools and coming home to their $400k houses.
And I would like to see how many athletes are attending private schools located between 15-30 miles from where they live. As I said in my very first post in this thread, I wonder if this amendment is a solution in search of a problem. Oh, wait, I forgot...it's about safety. smh
 
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Once again, reading comprehension is proving elusive for you.

Where have I said that private schools don't recruit? They ALL recruit. They HAVE to recruit to survive.

My POINT, as it has ALWAYS been, is that a private school's ABILITY to recruit students does not automatically translate to an edge on the athletic fields over public schools.
This is where I start to disagree with you. I 100% subscribe to the fact that private schools recruit all of their students, they have to in order to exist, but to say they do not target superior athletes is just pulling the wool over your own eyes. I'm not going to speak to any scholarships or financial aid for athletes because I don't know enough about that.

From Loyola's own website, "Annually, we welcome over 500 students per grade from over 92 different zip codes". How is this not an advantage over public schools? Name me any public school that has that kind of reach. Do public schools also recruit athletes? Absolutely. It's a little more difficult and takes more shenanigans though as they need to move these kids into the district or find other ways to tamper with addresses and cheat the system. Private schools however can do this free and clear.
Given the anti-private school transfer rules, implementation of a recruiting radius, multipliers, success factors, etc.,
What are the anti-private transfer rules? How do transfer rules differ for private schools vs. public? Implementation of a recruiting radius is an attempt to level the playing field being that public school can take just who resides within their district and not from 92 different zip codes.

Multipliers and success factors are more debatable in my opinion. I have zero issue playing private schools and if you want to beat them then work hard and beat them instead of whining about losing. That being said should MC be playing in 4A because that would be what their actual enrollment dictates?

Even though I may not agree what what you say I do respect what you say but you are also very narrow minded in that you think what may or may not be good for a successful, large football program in an affluent area is good for every private school in the state and applies to every sport or program.

It goes from people talking about how poor private schools are and if this proposal were to pass it would be devastating financially for private schools to you talking about how if they were to separate from the IHSA they could offer scholarships. So would scholarships be offered to all athletes or just football players? Would academic scholarships be offered as well? Where are ALL of these private schools going to come up with this money? Or would only the schools that can afford it be be giving out the scholarships? If so, then does your dream privates only (publics need not apply) organization further divide into scholarship schools and non scholarship schools?
 
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So, pretty similar to public schools then. See Hinsdale Central, New Trier, etc.
When is the last time one of those schools won a state football title??? How many titles have they won in the last 20 years in basketball?? Baseball?? softball? Wrestling?
 
When is the last time one of those schools won a state football title??? How many titles have they won in the last 20 years in basketball?? Baseball?? softball? Wrestling?
I think I understand what you're saying but it was posted earlier in this thread that Hinsdale Central has won more state titles than anyone. in the country. ever. New Trier comes in at #4 all-time in the country.
 
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This is where I start to disagree with you. I 100% subscribe to the fact that private schools recruit all of their students, they have to in order to exist, but to say they do not target superior athletes is just pulling the wool over your own eyes. I'm not going to speak to any scholarships or financial aid for athletes because I don't know enough about that.

Public schools are the default option within their districts. They don't need to target ANYONE (although some do anyway) because they have close to a virtual monopoly on enrolling students within those districts.

Private schools recruiting students and student athletes absolutely goes on. HOWEVER, targeting superior athletes AND enrolling them are two different things. I get pretty fed up with the public school mindset that assumes that private schools can enroll anyone they want. How many high school kids do you know who will get up super early for anything? I'm guessing most kids wouldn't want to wake up 30, 45, 60 minutes earlier for a longer commute to attend a private school when their public school is within a five minute walk or drive. How is that not an advantage for public schools?

From Loyola's own website, "Annually, we welcome over 500 students per grade from over 92 different zip codes". How is this not an advantage over public schools? Name me any public school that has that kind of reach. Do public schools also recruit athletes? Absolutely. It's a little more difficult and takes more shenanigans though as they need to move these kids into the district or find other ways to tamper with addresses and cheat the system. Private schools however can do this free and clear.

How is enrolling 90-95% of the high school aged students in a condensed school district not an advantage for the public schools over private schools? Do not these so called advantages even out, even somewhat if not evenly? Sure, private schools and homeschooling get the other 1%-10% of a district's high school age kids, but we all know that not all those kids are athletes, much less stud athletes. Private schools CAN recruit, but it does not equate to extraordinary athletic success for ALL private schools. If it did, then ALL private schools would be equally extraordinarily successful, and we all know that also isn't the case.
What are the anti-private transfer rules? How do transfer rules differ for private schools vs. public?

Don't know if these still exist or not, but there used to be transfer rules that offered less stringent athletic eligibility to students transferring into public schools and longer waits for transferring into private ones.
Implementation of a recruiting radius is an attempt to level the playing field being that public school can take just who resides within their district and not from 92 different zip codes.

Yes, the public school can "take" 95% (or more where there aren't any private schools nearby) of the kids in their districts. And, yes, private schools CAN take kids from 92 different zip codes but ONLY if the student and his/her family wants to be at that private school and has the wherewithal to make that happen.
Multipliers and success factors are more debatable in my opinion. I have zero issue playing private schools and if you want to beat them then work hard and beat them instead of whining about losing. That being said should MC be playing in 4A because that would be what their actual enrollment dictates?
MC's doubled enrollment would put them in 5A, not 4A. But, no. They shouldn't be there, and I think they agree with that also.

Even though I may not agree what what you say I do respect what you say but you are also very narrow minded in that you think what may or may not be good for a successful, large football program in an affluent area is good for every private school in the state and applies to every sport or program.

And equally narrow minded or misguided is the mindset that takes the position that ALL private schools should be made to endure consequences because of the extraordinary athletic success of a relative handful of them. That's treating the "problem" with a hammer when a tweezers would do the trick. And equally narrow minded or misguided is the mindset that takes the position that ALL private schools can enroll anyone they want within their 30 mile radius, as if it were as simple as the private school saying "we want you" and the kids automatically enroll. And equally narrowminded or misguided is the mindset that takes the position that simply because private schools have a 30 mile radius from which they have the ability to enroll students that that equates to an athletic advantage that ALL private schools have over public schools.
It goes from people talking about how poor private schools are and if this proposal were to pass it would be devastating financially for private schools to you talking about how if they were to separate from the IHSA they could offer scholarships. So would scholarships be offered to all athletes or just football players? Would academic scholarships be offered as well? Where are ALL of these private schools going to come up with this money? Or would only the schools that can afford it be be giving out the scholarships? If so, then does your dream privates only (publics need not apply) organization further divide into scholarship schools and non scholarship schools?

IF they were to separate and IF they were to allow athletic scholarships in their newly formed organization, how the heck would I know if they would offer them to football players only? It would be my hope that they could offer them to whoever they wanted to. Some schools could use all their scholarships in ice hockey if they wanted. Some could choose to spread it out among multiple sports. Where are they going to come up with the money, you ask? In a private school of 1,000 kids, how much money is it really costing to give out, say, 50 athletic scholarships, some partial, some full, across all sports? Just like at the D1, D2 and NAIA levels, the cost would be absorbed through tuition, plus donations and other sources of revenue. A tiny private school like Aquin in Freeport might not be able to give out 50 scholarships, but could they afford to give out, say, 16 25% tuition discounts or four full rides?

Yes, the amendment might be devastating financially to some private schools. What we are talking about there, though, is a decrease of students and their associated tuition revenue. That is different from adding expense in the form of additional students paying partial or no tuition. That additional expense can be made up, at least partially, through simply increasing class sizes, for example. How much extra does it cost for ONE extra student to attend a school as long as the school is not hiring extra teachers/staff for that one student? Two students? Ten?
 
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I have read a lot of talk about the financial issues this amendment would cause the private schools. I would like to see how many high profile athletes from outside the 15 mile radius pay full tution at some of the private schools.
I have no issue with parents wanting a private education for their children. But I know of high profile athletes paying nothing at private schools and coming home to their $400k houses.
I see no problem since every student at a public school is on scholarship. If families are driving past your school and are willing to pay for a product that you give away for free, then I think you need to ask what is wrong with your product. This argument stems from the mindset at public schools is that all the kids belong to us. The CTU hates charter schools. And state wide publics hates privates. No our kids do not belong to you!
 
I think I understand what you're saying but it was posted earlier in this thread that Hinsdale Central has won more state titles than anyone. in the country. ever. New Trier comes in at #4 all-time in the country.
To be fair - HC has won most of their state titles in B&G Tennis, B&G Golf, and B&G Swim and Dive. Only recently have they become a powerhouse in Girls LAX.

HC AD is a strict rule follower when it comes to contact with non-enrolled students/athletes. He has said he never wants the HC to be viewed as other schools in the news lately for "recruitment violations". However, HC is not losing golf, tennis or swim athletes to the private schools because of the winning tradition. Are there athletes who choose a private over HC - absolutely. Sometimes it's because they won't make the golf team at HC, and they want to play. Sometimes it's just because the parents want to go private.
 
Public = everyone on scholarship

Private = top athletes on scholarship

Again, no issue with people choosing private over public. The issue is people claiming financial ruin if this amendment were to pass (which it won't), but the privates are giving free tution based on athletic ability. If sending your kid to XYX Catholic outside of the 15 mile radius is so important, pay the money for it. You know just like I do if Billy Football Star from Bolingbrook had to pay full tution at SR, MC, BR, they wouldn't be there. To me, that's not a level playing field.
 
Public = everyone on scholarship

Private = top athletes on scholarship

Again, no issue with people choosing private over public. The issue is people claiming financial ruin if this amendment were to pass (which it won't), but the privates are giving free tution based on athletic ability. If sending your kid to XYX Catholic outside of the 15 mile radius is so important, pay the money for it. You know just like I do if Billy Football Star from Bolingbrook had to pay full tution at SR, MC, BR, they wouldn't be there. To me, that's not a level playing field.
If Billy From The Brook (sorry, Mike) can afford to pay full tuition at SR, MC or BR, then that's what he should be paying. If he can't afford it, then he MIGHT receive NEED BASED FINANCIAL AID to attend those schools.

If, however, you know of specific instances where kids like Billy could afford full tuition but received a tuition break because of athletic prowess alone, then report it. If you aren't reporting it but you feel free to howl about it here, then you are doing nothing more than rumor mongering.

As for people claiming financial ruin for private schools if this amendment were to pass, I'm not among them. Financial ruin is a bit extreme. Financial hardship? Absolutely. Again, for me, he question is what is the breaking point for private schools? At what point does something like this become the last straw?
 
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Honest question, is this something the student population cares about? Is this something students talk about or is it just HS football degenerates like us?
The only people who care about this is the adults. That’s it. Youth and HS sports would be infinitely better if the only adults were the coaches, referees, media. Everyone else is simply not needed.
 
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From sending my sons through the ranks of HS sports over the past too many years, no they don’t, but I remind them that some day they will.
Yeah, my dad always complained about how the man was out to get him as well. I said he should have stopped drinking, but I suppose we don’t always get what we want.
 
To all private schools… my son is open for PAY FOR PLAY lmao!! Contact Dad for current going rates! Lmao! Kidding aside, I don’t care if money gets exchanged under the table at any school, private or public, it’s the nature of the game imo. What does that matter? It’s an unfair advantage? Who cares guys? This is kids playing football not life or death

Soon this will all be a moot point in a few yrs once the IHSA and state get on the NIL train.
 
To all private schools… my son is open for PAY FOR PLAY lmao!! Contact Dad for current going rates! Lmao! Kidding aside, I don’t care if money gets exchanged under the table at any school, private or public, it’s the nature of the game imo. What does that matter? It’s an unfair advantage? Who cares guys? This is kids playing football not life or death

Soon this will all be a moot point in a few yrs once the IHSA and state get on the NIL train.
An athlete? Sorry can’t take him. But can your kid play a musical instrument while marching? If so, please DM me with the specifics. Thank you
 
Who is going to watch?? Who is going to sponsor it? Who will be willing to host it? Who is going to organize it? Any TV or streaming coverage?

IHSA isn't perfect, but they do a fantastic job of organizing events and promoting them across the entire state and from what I have seen most private schools do a lousy job of being organized and often let egos get in the way.. if they would ever separate classes, the private school kids would lose out if the private schools let their ego get in the way and formed their own association.. and most public-school fans wouldn't miss them at all.
Probably off topic but maybe not. Instead of leveling the playing field with IHSA rule changes What about leveling the playing field by sending public school kids to private schools with vouchers in there hands to pay for said education? Not to be presumptuous here, I’d imagine a lot of the crowd that complains about recruiting practices of private schools just might be the same ones crying “school choice”? If private schools cut out the recruiting of students when parents started receiving government vouchers would that in your opinion level the playing field enough?
 
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And I would like to see how many athletes are attending private schools located between 15-30 miles from where they live. As I said in my very first post in this thread, I wonder if this amendment is a solution in search of a problem. Oh, wait, I forgot...it's about safety. smh

I guarantee you the # attending from Indiana is 10x the amount of students attending from 15+ miles away
 
I guarantee you the # attending from Indiana is 10x the amount of students attending from 15+ miles away
Northwest Indiana is just about the same distance to MC as it is from Beverly/Mt. Greenwood. MC has been getting students and student/athletes from NW Indiana for well over 50 years maybe more. Are you implying that Illinois schools are somehow “poaching” every student athlete there is from NW Indiana? Because that’s the absolute most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard!! Absurd actually.

Just curious….. What school do you support? And where did you attend HS?
 
Probably off topic but maybe not. Instead of leveling the playing field with IHSA rule changes What about leveling the playing field by sending public school kids to private schools with vouchers in there hands to pay for said education? Not to be presumptuous here, I’d imagine a lot of the crowd that complains about recruiting practices of private schools just might be the same ones crying “school choice”? If private schools cut out the recruiting of students when parents started receiving government vouchers would that in your opinion level the playing field enough?
I don't think that works the way you think it would if taking voucher money means you have to follow the same rules when it comes to IEPS and removing kids. Besides, athletics and legacy, the reason people pay for private school is the removal of problem children.
 
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Public = everyone on scholarship

Private = top athletes on scholarship

Again, no issue with people choosing private over public. The issue is people claiming financial ruin if this amendment were to pass (which it won't), but the privates are giving free tution based on athletic ability. If sending your kid to XYX Catholic outside of the 15 mile radius is so important, pay the money for it. You know just like I do if Billy Football Star from Bolingbrook had to pay full tution at SR, MC, BR, they wouldn't be there. To me, that's not a level playing field.
A level playing field would be tuition vouchers for everyone. But that would happen. On a truly level playing field most public schools can't compete. There are 162 high schools in the CPS. How many would be closed if they had to compete.
 
A level playing field would be tuition vouchers for everyone. But that would happen. On a truly level playing field most public schools can't compete. There are 162 high schools in the CPS. How many would be closed if they had to compete.

If they could toss out the bad kids and ones with poor grades? Most of them would be fine.
 
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An athlete? Sorry can’t take him. But can your kid play a musical instrument while marching? If so, please DM me with the specifics. Thank you
He’s 2 and a half and i’m sure he’s got more musical talents currently than his old man!
 
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I don't think that works the way you think it would if taking voucher money means you have to follow the same rules when it comes to IEPS and removing kids. Besides, athletics and legacy, the reason people pay for private school is the removal of problem children.
Not quite but that’s besides the point. A private school should still have every right to remove the “problem child” IMO. After all that child has the option to return to the home public school if removed. And most if not all Catholic schools in our area do accommodate IEP’s.

That said…. Would that idea level the playing field?
 
Northwest Indiana is just about the same distance to MC as it is from Beverly/Mt. Greenwood. MC has been getting students and student/athletes from NW Indiana for well over 50 years maybe more. Are you implying that Illinois schools are somehow “poaching” every student athlete there is from NW Indiana? Because that’s the absolute most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard!! Absurd actually.

Just curious….. What school do you support? And where did you attend HS?
Northwest Indiana is just about the same distance to MC as it is from Beverly/Mt. Greenwood. MC has been getting students and student/athletes from NW Indiana for well over 50 years maybe more. Are you implying that Illinois schools are somehow “poaching” every student athlete there is from NW Indiana? Because that’s the absolute most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard!! Absurd actually.

Just curious….. What school do you support? And where did you attend HS?

no. My point is the state boundary proposal is a bigger deal than the 15 mile one.
 
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