Amendment Proposals IHSA
- Thread starter sporthog9er
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So then why are the sponsors of this amendment from very large schools like Sandburg, Andrew, and Stagg? Did the small schools put them up to it?
Ask virtually every other state that does it? The CCL schools do not get along nearly as well as you think they do. The have and have nots will be amplified in a total split. It is an arms race many can not afford to get in.
Go visit Westmont HS. Then visit Hinsdale Central HS. You might notice some differences
The most dominate schools in our state our mid-small public schools.
Rochester
Lena Winslow
And yet Hinsdale Central, with all the resources they have, has won a grand total of (4) playoff games since 2010.
Immaculate Conception has terrible resources and yet is the most dominate private school below 3A.
Maybe good programs starts with having the right people calling the shots.
I believe St. Ignatius has the biggest endowment. Tuition per their web site is $20,250 this year. Loyola is $18,350. They're the top end of the haves.
I get that it's not all peaches and cream among private schools. So would you rather have an amplified gulf between the haves and have nots in a total split, or deal with an organization that does not want you and makes life miserable for you through discriminatory policies? You agreed with JCHill earlier in this thread that the goal of the amendment is to force the private schools' hands.
Actually the biggest endowment BY FAR ($11 billion) is the U of C that runs the University Lab School.
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But they have won more overall state titles than any high school in the country.
Most state championships
Who is more of a have: Loyola with its roughly $70 million endowment supporting 2,000 students, or Lake Forest Academy with its $56 million endowment supporting 435 students?
Good catch. I was only talking about CCL teams. I don't know too much about the others. I grew up in Englewood on the Southside in the late 60's. First time I went to Loyola I was amazed. I never knew all those other counties made cars and they were supposed to have a shinny finish on the paint.
If I am Mt. Carmel or Loyola, I am fine with a split off from IHSA. If I am St. Laurence I probably want to stay. Granted a 15 mile rule would probably make it necessary for even more to leave.
As a CCL supporter I don't see the attraction of an NIPL type of organization. We basically have that already with the CCL and in reality, especially for the Blue teams, there are only 3 big games a year for you with maybe one of the crossovers being a competitive game as well. The majority of the crossovers aren't very competitive and running clocks are common. Obviously if the IHSA adopted this 15 mile rule it could force some decisions to be made but I think an NIPL org would get boring pretty quick. The best part about the playoffs is going up against teams you don't get to play very often or forming new rivalries with other programs that you run into on playoff runs through the years. I would hate to see the excitement of the playoffs taken away.
Wow, you must have been pretty perceptive back then. Back in those days, there simply weren't too many automobile imports in the U.S., period. Roughly 1 million foreign made cars were sold in the U.S. per year in the late 60s (all imported back then), as opposed to Toyota selling 2.3 million cars in the U.S. in 2021 alone. The Japanese influx didn't really begin in earnest until the mid-70s after the first oil embargo in 1973.
Foreign car manufactures didn't start making cars in the U.S. until 1978. Hard to imagine too many imported vehicles being in the Loyola lot back in the late 60s/early 70s that weren't from Europe, with the majority of those being VW Buses or Beetles.
Imagine the other side of the coin.
Imagine 10-game regular seasons instead of 9. Imagine spring football. Imagine playoffs with corporate sponsorships and increased visibility. Imagine not having any restrictions at all with respect to athletic recruiting, transfers, scholarships, etc.
I agree that it's fun to play teams you don't get to see often. But, is that enough to keep private schools from controlling their own destinies instead of being controlled? Not for me.
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Great example. It's not just the number of students - it's money. Westmont players are knocking on doors and standing in front of grocery stores selling fundraising coupon books to pay for Hudl. Hinsdale's football club is holding golf outings at country clubs with silent auctions of donated vacation homes, Cubs/Bears/Sox tickets, and sports memorabilia.
The biggest advantages will be
1) expanded practice / training windows
2) Ability to freely discussion athletics with prospective recruits and allowing coaches to talk directly to 8th graders
3) Fewer limitations on out of state opponents. (Much bigger deal in sports like field hockey, lacrosse, swimming, golf, etc.)
I would love to see MS vs LWE for the state final and the winner can't crack the top five in anyone's season final poll. I see MORE kids playing for the privates not less after the split. CCL/ESCC league would be college coaches first stop. Think of a dozen IMG's except with tough academics.
What I think is getting lost here is that everyone has their football blinders on. How do any of these proposals, separate classes, or new organizations for private schools play out outside of football? Do any of these things everyone is talking about benefit private school athletics as a whole or just football? Does the swimming team benefit from leaving the IHSA? Does track & field benefit from private schools having their own classes? How do Illinois private schools outside of the Chicagoland area benefit from any of this? How does a school like SHG benefit by having to travel great distances to play other private schools in various sports because there are very few other private schools that are close in size in their area?
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All great questions. Ask cornerrat (aka Ratsy) how he would feel about SHG traveling far and wide to play teams like PND, QND, JCA, PC, Marian Catholic, Marist, Bishop Mac, St Teresa, etc.
As for the other sports, you probably have a point. But, just like you were angling earlier in this thread about sacrificing in order to improve the (supposed) common good with respect to the amendment, I'd agree that there would probably be some trade offs if private schools went their own way in all sports.
I see a several possible scenarios for the future:
1. All schools remain members of the IHSA. Continue state championship competitions as usual.
2. All schools remain members of the IHSA. IHSA State championships divided between Public and Private schools in some sports (based on numbers of schools . Schools may play either Private or Public Schools during the regular season
3. Private schools leave the IHSA and form their own organization. Host their own state championships. Public schools can play them as long as the schools are in good standing with the NFHS.
4. Private schools leave the IHSA and form their own organization IPHSAA. IHSA schools prohibited from playing IPHSAA schools.
1. All schools remain members of the IHSA. Continue state championship competitions as usual.
2. All schools remain members of the IHSA. IHSA State championships divided between Public and Private schools in some sports (based on numbers of schools . Schools may play either Private or Public Schools during the regular season
3. Private schools leave the IHSA and form their own organization. Host their own state championships. Public schools can play them as long as the schools are in good standing with the NFHS.
4. Private schools leave the IHSA and form their own organization IPHSAA. IHSA schools prohibited from playing IPHSAA schools.
Yeah but like IMG, the kids who colleges want to see wont paying much if anything. Those cost have to be covered by the alumni base. Which again will turn into about 5-6 haves and the rest will be have-nots.
While SHG may enjoy playing JCA, PC, Marist, and the like, at least initially, that trip from Springfield to Joliet or Marist would get old real quick and vice versa.All great questions. Ask cornerrat (aka Ratsy) how he would feel about SHG traveling far and wide to play teams like PND, QND, JCA, PC, Marian Catholic, Marist, Bishop Mac, etc.
As for the other sports, you probably have a point. But, just like you were angling about sacrificing in order to improve the (supposed) common good with respect to the amendment, I'd agree that there would probably be some trade offs if private schools went their own way in all sports.
As much as fans like you would fully support the idea of separation as well as some within the various private schools, what is your honest opinion on how LA would vote should it come to that regarding leaving the IHSA? Would the AD and/or school administrators be in favor of forming a new organization and leaving the IHSA because it may benefit the football team but not the 20-30 other sports and programs that are sanctioned by the IHSA? Sacrificing for the common good, yes. Sacrificing for the minority that yells the loudest, no
Depends on how they feel their overall student population would react to the move. If they feel they would gain students they leave, if they feel they will lose students they would stay.
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I think you'll have more haves than than you think. It's a big metro area and a big state.
Kids who colleges want to see who live in Rockford will go to the Rockford area have(s). Springfield will go to the Springfield area have(s). Northern Lake County will go to Carmel or southern Lake to Loyola. Will County will go to JCA or PC. Elgin area will go to St. Ed or Marmion. McHenry County will go to Marian Central. Adams County will go to QND.
If you remove restrictions on athletic scholarships, you might well see way more haves than you think, and I think you would see as much or more enrollment of student athletes who would normally have gone to public schools than you would see the private schools haves cannibalizing the have nots.
In the Chicago area with no restrictions on athletic scholarships, I could see a DePaul Prep utilizing those to capture some above average to high achieving players that would normally go to some of the CPL schools. Would they all be studs that colleges would be interested in? Some, yes, most no. Imagine if DePaul Prep simply went from mostly average players to mostly above average. They don't have to be 4 or 5 star recruits. Same with Leo.
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So Andrew, Stagg, and Sandburg are not competitive because of cat "liter"? Moreover, wouldn't LWE and Maine South be subject to the same federal and state guidelines for transgender students? But hey, cool clown emojis.
Honest question, is this something the student population cares about? Is this something students talk about or is it just HS football degenerates like us?
Where is all this money coming from for scholarships for athletes? I'm sure some can pull it off but the majority of these schools operate on a very tight budget and would struggle mightily to keep up.
90% us - 7% school ADs and Principals, 3% coaches. Students are at a HS for 4 years. While those are formative, most will have a larger bond with their college or university than with their High School.
Yup, those are the right questions to be asking. But, here is the real question relative to this amendment and to the other discriminatory policies against private schools: What is the private school breaking point relative to the crap thrown at private schools by the IHSA? The answer is quite likely going to be different from one private school to the next.
If you ask me, small to medium sized private schools that live hand-to-mouth (and there are a lot of them) should have a whole lot less patience than large and more financially strong private schools regarding IHSA policies that have a potential negative impact on their ability to market themselves. However, I could also see a school like Loyola saying, "Hey, we'd rather have 2,000 students in the school living wherever they want and playing sports than 1,800 students with a handful of kids who are ineligible due to the 15 mile radius."
Because they aren't nut jobs like you that feels the world is out to get the private schools??? Instead they let the TSSAA do the heavy lifting, they organize the season and post season, they put together a very good state tournament and state finals, with a great TV package..
The big difference I see here is that the private schools here admit they have an advantage and don't feel the need to take advantage of the system to compete, instead they are happy competing with like institutions.
Good question. Some schools would have more to offer than others. Smaller, less financially stable private schools would have very little to spend in this area, but how much is really needed to make an impact? "All this money," as you are suggesting, is probably not all that much.
Keep in mind that most, if not all, private schools are already granting de facto financial aid to ALL of their students. That's because annual tuition is generally set at an amount that is lower than the actual annual per student cost. In most cases, thousands of dollars less.
But, to a degree, success begets success. If tiny Aquin in Freeport could offer a handful of partial athletic scholarships in football, could that be all they need to move from 8-man to 11? Could their improved football fortunes with better athletes improve school spirit? Could their improved football fortunes improve alumni giving, thereby allowing them to offer more than a handful of athletic scholarships down the road?
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Given the anti-private school transfer rules, implementation of a recruiting radius, multipliers, success factors, etc., I'd say that if private schools don't feel like the IHSA is out to get them that they are the ones who are the nut jobs with their heads in the sand.
Let the record show that you are the one to start the name calling. I will not respond in kind to you personally. Keep it up, though. Let your true colors shine through.
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Because while a private football bracket might do ok within a certain segment of the state it would hurt most of the other sports and those kids.. anyone really going to even notice if the private schools held a track meet??? Baseball? Tennis? Plus those all would be money losers..
The CCL/ESCC may be a better baseball conference than a football conference.
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