618 Talk Week 8/9: Fight for Seeding

[Formicidae13]

A weekly thread to talk about some of the bigger teams and conferences from the 618(southern Illinois).

I’m not going to go as in depth as normal for each game this week as I want to break down the playoff outlook for every team in contention or that has qualified. But here are just the scores from the week with a short note for each conference:

South Seven
Cahokia(4-4) 56-6 Althoff(4-4)
Mt. Vernon(4-4) 35-7 Centralia(5-3)
Marion(5-3) 40-7 Carbondale(2-6)

These scores left us with a four way tie for the S7 crown between Cahokia, Mt. Vernon, Marion and Centralia. After going through a few tie breakers, Mt. Vernon ends up with the conference’s automatic playoff berth. In this case it was least points allowed against the other three teams they were tied with.

Southwestern
East St. Louis(6-2) 24-7 Edwardsville(6-2)
Belleville East(4-4) 41-0 Belleville West(0-8)
O’Fallon(7-1) 52-0 Alton(1-7)

Nothing really unexpected here, but Edwardsville was down only 6-0 at the half against the Flyers. The Tigers have been bit by a second half slowdown several times this year.

Mississippi Valley
Triad(6-2) 28-13 Waterloo(5-3)
Highland(7-1) 56-0 Mascoutah(5-3)
Jersey(3-5) 42-0 Civic Memorial(1-7)

Triad proved themselves as the clear second best of the MVC and Highland continued their dominate campaign. The Bulldogs have hit a running clock in all but two games so far: a 31-28 loss to 8A Edwardsville and a 35-0 win over what will likely be a 7 win Triad team.

So who needs a win to get in?
Belleville East, Cahokia, and Althoff all stand at 4-4 and will certainly be in with a win thanks to their troves of playoff points.
-Cahokia has a very tall task this week, as they visit O’Fallon. This would be a huge upset, but with 40 playoff points currently, the Comanches could still be alive at 4-5.
-Belleville East is in a much more comfortable position and may already be printing their playoff shirts. All they need is a win over a 1-7 Granite City team(their lone win came against 1A Madison that stands at 4-3).
-Althoff is also sitting pretty with a week 9 trip to Alton. The Redbirds are 1-7 and have only defeated 0-8 Belleville West so far.

5-3 Teams Looking for Insurance
Playoff points for our 5-3 teams are as follows: Marion(33), Centralia(37), Mascoutah(39) and Waterloo(37). I think all of these teams are effectively in, but that shouldn’t stop them from giving their all for another victory.
-Marion has a long haul up to Mattoon on Friday night. They should be able to overcome the long trip against a 1-7 Mattoon squad that has struggled to a 1-7 record.
-Centralia has an interesting matchup with Collinsville. The 7A Kahoks stand at 7-1, but play mostly 4A/5A squads. I still would pick Collinsville here though, especially coming off an overtime win over previously undefeated Centennial last week.
-Waterloo will see how they measure up against the Freeburg Midgets for their regular season finale. My advice would be to take the Bulldogs in a rebound victory over the 3-5 hosts.
-Mascoutah could sneak their way into a home playoff game with their wagon full of playoff points. But for that to matter, they will need to tame a 2-6 Carbondale team that has played better than their record at times.

6-2 Squads Fighting for Home Sweet Home
Generally speaking, a seventh win will position your team for a first round home game. Groups looking to hit this marker include Triad, East St. Louis and Edwardsville.
-Triad, who hold 37 playoff points at this point, have looked like a much better team in the second half of the season. Expect that trend to continue this week as they battle a 4-4 Lincoln team looking for their first playoff berth since Reagan won reelection.
-East St. Louis will cross the mighty Mississippi this Friday to take on De Smet. The Missouri based Spartans have been tough in recent years, but they have fallen off this year and stand at 4-4
-Edwardsville will also march into Missouri for a conflict with Christian Brothers. The Cadets are favorites here according to computers and their 7-1 record.

Highland and O’Fallon Aim to Scratch Off an Eighth Win
These two exciting teams stand at 7-1, but will their final games be exciting? Probably not.
-O’Fallon will take on the Cahokia Comanches. As I said before, Cahokia will likely need this one to make the postseason but I don’t expect them to.
-Highland will take on the Flaming Hearts of Effingham, who are currently 5-3. This reminds me of a story during the LaPorta days of a Highland vs Effingham game in the postseason. The team meal the eve of the game gave food poisoning to many Bulldogs. It didn’t slow down Highland then and I don’t think food poisoning would be enough this Friday either, because this Highland team is playing some great ball.

Where Would Playoff Qualifiers Land?
Althoff(1A/2A)
Waterloo(4A)
Cahokia(4A)
Highland(4A/5A)
Centralia(4A/5A)
Mt. Vernon(5A)
Marion(5A)
Mascoutah(5A)
Triad(5A)
East St. Louis(6A)
Edwardsville(7A/8A)
Belleville East(8A)

Week 9 Games to Watch
-Collinsville(7-1) at Centralia(5-3)
-Mt. Vernon(4-4) at Mt. Carmel(8-0). The Rams don't need to win this one due to being conference champs and that may be a good thing. Hard to get a good read on teams so far away, but I sense a good game here.
-Waterloo(5-3) at Freeburg(3-5)

 

[Formicidae13]

Question of the week: Outside of East STL and Highland, which 618 team do you see going the furthest?

 

[crusader_of_90]

I'd say Centralia or Mt. Vernon as both are pretty far south.

 

[Formicidae13]

I'd say Centralia or Mt. Vernon as both are pretty far south.

I meant in terms of going furthest in their postseason brackets, I should’ve been clearer

 

[dcaudle68]

I meant in terms of going furthest in their postseason brackets, I should’ve been clearer

I think Carterville can be final 8 or 4 in 4A. Highland can be final 2 in 5A, same if they fall 4A. East St Louis should win 6A. Carmi or Johnston City can reach final 4 in 2A. Sesser will be tough in 1A as well can easily make final 8.

 

[dcaudle68]

Great write up as always Formicidae13!

 

[cigaros]

I think Carterville can be final 8 or 4 in 4A. Highland can be final 2 in 5A, same if they fall 4A. East St Louis should win 6A. Carmi or Johnston City can reach final 4 in 2A. Sesser will be tough in 1A as well can easily make final 8.

Carteville's best chance of going to a final 4 will be if they lose this week and drop to the 2 seed. This would move them away from SHG & Rochester. Otherwise they have Rochester in their quadrant and will get demolished in the quarterfinals.

 

[Formicidae13]

I think Carterville can be final 8 or 4 in 4A. Highland can be final 2 in 5A, same if they fall 4A. East St Louis should win 6A. Carmi or Johnston City can reach final 4 in 2A. Sesser will be tough in 1A as well can easily make final 8.

I'm not as in-the-know with the smaller schools, so I appreciate the info. The smaller schools tend to be where the 618 does best anyways.
I think @crusader_of_90 has already pointed this out, but a 5-4 Althoff team could also be dangerous in 1A/2A. They would be my best pick for the smaller classes on the limited knowledge that I have.

 

[paulie23]

i gotta a feeling Mt.Vernon will be very pesky for 5a same style of play as a team like carygrove last year 6a beating estl.

 

[LHSTigers94]

i gotta a feeling Mt.Vernon will be very pesky for 5a same style of play as a team like carygrove last year 6a beating estl.

People should stop disrespecting Cary Grove with these type of comments. CG was undefeated in both the spring and fall with no close games in the fall until beating ESL by 1. They were dominant the entire season.
As far as Mt Vernon goes, the way they lost to Cahokia could mean a very early playoff exit.

 

[dcaudle68]

People should stop disrespecting Cary Grove with these type of comments. CG was undefeated in both the spring and fall with no close games in the fall until beating ESL by 1. They were dominant the entire season.
As far as Mt Vernon goes, the way they lost to Cahokia could mean a very early playoff exit.

Cahokia is a VERY good team. They had one bad game in losing to Centralia 14-0 and it will cost them the playoffs as the won't beat O'Fallon. Very tough non-conference schedule will bite them in the butt this year.

 

[dcaudle68]

Not sure about demolished. Carterville is very stout defensively and will have a chance to keep it very close.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Cahokia is a VERY good team. They had one bad game in losing to Centralia 14-0 and it will cost them the playoffs as the won't beat O'Fallon. Very tough non-conference schedule will bite them in the butt this year.

I disagree. HF and Peoria blasted them and Marion beat them by 20 plus. The only team they beat with a winning record is Mt. Vernon. I can't count Althoff because their on the field record is 3-5 right now. Mt. Vernon losing that type of game is a playoff concern. Every team will play desperate to win, which is exactly what Cahokia did to tie the game and in overtime. For most of the game MV looked like the better team until the last couple of drives on both sides of the ball. A team has to be consistent to be successful in the playoffs.

 

[paulie23]

People should stop disrespecting Cary Grove with these type of comments. CG was undefeated in both the spring and fall with no close games in the fall until beating ESL by 1. They were dominant the entire season.
As far as Mt Vernon goes, the way they lost to Cahokia could mean a very early playoff exit.

my point was the style of offense and how the running attack can wear even more down on a defensive in late october and november i just used them as an explain of a team who’s offense is like Mt.Vernon’s … and there cahokia lost you really think that’s a factor and why they won’t go far lmao care to explain?

 

[Formicidae13]

I agree the Cahokia loss was a bad moment for Mt. Vernon, but in context it isn't that bad.
First, the Rams were entering the game just two days removed from having to forfeit two games. Second, the teams was missing some key players, such as one of their starting running backs. That's a big deal when you don't split anyone out wide. Thirdly, Cahokia had to pull off some serious magic to force overtime and to win there.
My overall assessment of Mt. Vernon is that they are very unpredictable because it is hard to guess how each opponent will fare against their offense and they aren't afraid for aggressive plays that can put them on either side of an upset.

 

[paulie23]

I agree the Cahokia loss was a bad moment for Mt. Vernon, but in context it isn't that bad.
First, the Rams were entering the game just two days removed from having to forfeit two games. Second, the teams was missing some key players, such as one of their starting running backs. That's a big deal when you don't split anyone out wide. Thirdly, Cahokia had to pull off some serious magic to force overtime and to win there.
My overall assessment of Mt. Vernon is that they are very unpredictable because it is hard to guess how each opponent will fare against their offense and they aren't afraid for aggressive plays that can put them on either side of an upset.

sounds like a pesky team to me haha i agree 100%

 

[USD24]

I think Carterville can be final 8 or 4 in 4A. Highland can be final 2 in 5A, same if they fall 4A. East St Louis should win 6A. Carmi or Johnston City can reach final 4 in 2A. Sesser will be tough in 1A as well can easily make final 8.

So you think Highland can beat Rochester and/or SHG?

 

[Alexander32]

Question of the week: Outside of East STL and Highland, which 618 team do you see going the furthest?

Their respective chances will depend a lot on the draw they get. The 5A bracket will have more gaps to exploit than 8A or 7A. In other words, there are not likely to be many weak teams after the first round (relative to class level) in 8A and 7A. There will, however, be some weak teams in the round of 16 in 5A. Consequently, Triad has a chance of making it to the quarterfinals and therefore I'll pick them to go the furthest.

 

[Formicidae13]

So you think Highland can beat Rochester and/or SHG?

I know you asked someone else, but I think they can take down Rochester. Both Calpreps and Massey have the Dogs as at least 8 point favorites over the Rockets, for whatever that is worth.
I'm not sure I'd call this the best Highland team I've seen, but they may be the most built for a postseason run with their strength in the trenches.
SHG is a different story though, I think they are the team to beat in either 3A/4A.
Now if Highland goes 5A, I think they are the clear pick from the south.

 

[crusader_of_90]

It’s Ken’s World and we just live in it!

As SHG goes, it can either create or remove woes.

 

[LHSTigers94]

my point was the style of offense and how the running attack can wear even more down on a defensive in late october and november i just used them as an explain of a team who’s offense is like Mt.Vernon’s … and there cahokia lost you really think that’s a factor and why they won’t go far lmao care to explain?

Cahokia threw a deep ball to tie the game late and send to overtime. It was a desperation play similar to what you are going to see in playoff football when the game is on the line. Watching that play, there is no indicator that an adjustment can be made to stop it the next time around. I will also add that going in potentially at 4-5, MV will play a 1 seed in the first rd that should be much better than Cahokia. A team like Morgan Park is a great example. IMO it’s something to be concerned about.

 

[paulie23]

Cahokia threw a deep ball to tie the game late and send to overtime. It was a desperation play similar to what you are going to see in playoff football when the game is on the line. Watching that play, there is no indicator that an adjustment can be made to stop it the next time around. I will also add that going in potentially at 4-5, MV will play a 1 seed in the first rd that should be much better than Cahokia. A team like Morgan Park is a great example. IMO it’s something to be concerned about.

yikes nobody who read this thought you made a point lmao… so ur saying haha i’m actually laughing while i type this, ur saying cahokias miracle hail mary Mt.Vernon will loose round one because they cant make adjustments towards a miracle hail mary… wow i don’t see how that makes any sense

 

[dcaudle68]

So you think Highland can beat Rochester and/or SHG?

Rochester for sure, SHG not. Lot of difference between Rochester and SHG this year. I think if Highland drops to 4A it would mean SHG in 3A but I could be wrong on that. It would be close. Calpreps has Highland a good 10 point favorite over Rochester.

 

[LHSTigers94]

yikes nobody who read this thought you made a point lmao… so ur saying haha i’m actually laughing while i type this, ur saying cahokias miracle hail mary Mt.Vernon will loose round one because they cant make adjustments towards a miracle hail mary… wow i don’t see how that makes any sense

We can revisit after the first round playoff game. To be clear, it wasn't a hail mary, it was a deep ball that the db's couldn't cover. I don't think MV Db's can cover which will cost them in the playoffs. Time will tell.

 

[paulie23]

We can revisit after the first round playoff game. To be clear, it wasn't a hail mary, it was a deep ball that the db's couldn't cover. I don't think MV Db's can cover which will cost them in the playoffs. Time will tell.

my point is you’re really trying to say one play will determine how far a team will go in the playoffs it’s ridiculous and even ur point about them not being able to cover bc of one play is also ridiculous. i will say i agree with they will probably face a great team but that doesn’t dispute i still think they COULD* be a pesky team in the playoffs…

 

[LHSTigers94]

my point is you’re really trying to say one play will determine how far a team will go in the playoffs it’s ridiculous and even ur point about them not being able to cover bc of one play is also ridiculous. i will say i agree with they will probably face a great team but that doesn’t dispute i still think they COULD* be a pesky team in the playoffs…

MV couldn't close out the game. That is the concern going into the playoffs. You are focused on one play. I am focused on the issues that allowed Cahokia to come back from a two possession game in the second half. Furthermore, Cahokia had to go about 70 yards to score and was able to do it on one play, the first play. Again, we will see. If you don't have a concern, I get it.

 

[paulie23]

MV couldn't close out the game. That is the concern going into the playoffs. You are focused on one play. I am focused on the issues that allowed Cahokia to come back from a two possession game in the second half. Furthermore, Cahokia had to go about 70 yards to score and was able to do it on one play, the first play. Again, we will see. If you don't have a concern, I get it.

lmao all this just to kinda prove my point how they COULD* be pesky to a team like you mentioned Morgan Park who share similarities with Cahokia…

 

[Alexander32]

I know you asked someone else, but I think they can take down Rochester. Both Calpreps and Massey have the Dogs as at least 8 point favorites over the Rockets, for whatever that is worth.
I'm not sure I'd call this the best Highland team I've seen, but they may be the most built for a postseason run with their strength in the trenches.
SHG is a different story though, I think they are the team to beat in either 3A/4A.
Now if Highland goes 5A, I think they are the clear pick from the south.

I have been fooled too often by Highland hype. They consistently produce good teams year after year, but some of their best have gone down in flames once they meet the best the state has to offer. In 2013 a Highland team that had allowed no one closer than 14 points all year lost by 34 points in the quarterfinals. In 2017 they lost to Rochester in the semifinals; and in 2018 they were crushed by a four-loss team in the quarterfinals. I will take Rochester if the two teams meet in the playoffs this year.

 

[Formicidae13]

I have been fooled too often by Highland hype. They consistently produce good teams year after year, but some of their best have gone down in flames once they meet the best the state has to offer. In 2013 a Highland team that had allowed no one closer than 14 points all year lost by 34 points in the quarterfinals. In 2017 they lost to Rochester in the semifinals; and in 2018 they were crushed by a four-loss team in the quarterfinals. I will take Rochester if the two teams meet in the playoffs this year.

In 2018(which is who when they met Rochester in the semis) Highland was all about tossing it to LaPorta. That didn’t work when it got cold and windy during that Saturday evening in Rochester.
This Highland team is better built for November play with their line play that only 8A Edwardsville has handled so far.
I also dare say that this Rochester team isn’t as good as 2018. They certainly are a great team, but they already can’t finish as 14-0 state champs.
I don’t think we can really know anything until these two teams share a field though.

 

[rocketnation]

In 2018(which is who when they met Rochester in the semis) Highland was all about tossing it to LaPorta. That didn’t work when it got cold and windy during that Saturday evening in Rochester.
This Highland team is better built for November play with their line play that only 8A Edwardsville has handled so far.
I also dare say that this Rochester team isn’t as good as 2018. They certainly are a great team, but they already can’t finish as 14-0 state champs.
I don’t think we can really know anything until these two teams share a field though.

I don’t think we’re going to get to see who is right. However, if they played, I would favor Highland if it was at Highland and Rochester if at Rochester. Rochester is an exceptionally good team at home. I’ve watched them beat talented teams easily at home over the years. Other than SHG, no one has beaten Rochester at home since 2008.

 

[LHSTigers94]

lmao all this just to kinda prove my point how they COULD* be pesky to a team like you mentioned Morgan Park who share similarities with Cahokia…

The fact you think Morgan Park and Cahokia are similar this year says a lot. Good luck as I am rooting for 618

 

[crusader_of_90]

SideNote: I played against (sat the bench as a sophomore) against Touchdown Billy Greenwald. We were up late in the quarters. Our Kamikaze guy on KO’s, a wrestling state favorite. … was targeted low and he tore the ACL.

After rehabbing until spring, he and two of his best mates took a drive to Highland - an hour and some away - found the local hang out and took all comers, back to back to back - a trio of k-12 classmates who liked fist fighting in parking lots. Stood there fighting until there was no one else left.

True story.

 

[Alexander32]

In 2018(which is who when they met Rochester in the semis) Highland was all about tossing it to LaPorta. That didn’t work when it got cold and windy during that Saturday evening in Rochester.
This Highland team is better built for November play with their line play that only 8A Edwardsville has handled so far.
I also dare say that this Rochester team isn’t as good as 2018. They certainly are a great team, but they already can’t finish as 14-0 state champs.
I don’t think we can really know anything until these two teams share a field though.

Not that it will, or should, change anyone's mind, but Highland met Rochester in the semifinals in 2017. That Highland team had allowed no other team closer than 15 points until that semifinal game. Rochester was up at the half by a score of 21 to 0.

In 2018 Highland played a four-loss Joliet Catholic team in the quarterfinals. The Bulldogs had allowed no team closer than 21 points up until that game. I believe that was LaPorta's senior year and he displayed the caliber of player he was in that game. Highland passed effectively and stayed with Joliet Catholic for a while. Their problem in that game was they could not even slow down a little bit, let alone stop, the JC rushing attack. Joliet Catholic rushed for 607 yards on its way to a 55-21 thumping of the Bulldogs.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not disparaging Highland's program. They are well-coached and tend to play an exciting high-scoring style of game. I watched (not in person) their game against Edwardsville earlier this year and was hoping they could knock off the larger school. They came close. They deserve praise for reaching the quarterfinals several times in the last decade. Many teams didn't. I'm just saying that until they actually beat Rochester, Joliet Catholic, or Sacred Heart in those rounds of the playoffs, I will not be confident going into such a game that they will do it. Over the last five playoffs the Central State Eight Conference has placed eight teams in the semifinals and won three state championships. The Mississippi Valley Conference has placed two teams in the semifinals over the same time period. [I'm not inferring Joliet Catholic is in the Central State Eight Conference.]

Still, you are correct. We cannot know for sure what will happen in another game until it is played, and that may or may not be this year.

 

[Formicidae13]

Not that it will, or should, change anyone's mind, but Highland met Rochester in the semifinals in 2017. That Highland team had allowed no other team closer than 15 points until that semifinal game. Rochester was up at the half by a score of 21 to 0.

In 2018 Highland played a four-loss Joliet Catholic team in the quarterfinals. The Bulldogs had allowed no team closer than 21 points up until that game. I believe that was LaPorta's senior year and he displayed the caliber of player he was in that game. Highland passed effectively and stayed with Joliet Catholic for a while. Their problem in that game was they could not even slow down a little bit, let alone stop, the JC rushing attack. Joliet Catholic rushed for 607 yards on its way to a 55-21 thumping of the Bulldogs.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not disparaging Highland's program. They are well-coached and tend to play an exciting high-scoring style of game. I watched (not in person) their game against Edwardsville earlier this year and was hoping they could knock off the larger school. They came close. They deserve praise for reaching the quarterfinals several times in the last decade. Many teams didn't. I'm just saying that until they actually beat Rochester, Joliet Catholic, or Sacred Heart in those rounds of the playoffs, I will not be confident going into such a game that they will do it. Over the last five playoffs the Central State Eight Conference has placed eight teams in the semifinals and won three state championships. The Mississippi Valley Conference has placed two teams in the semifinals over the same time period. [I'm not inferring Joliet Catholic is in the Central State Eight Conference.]

Still, you are correct. We cannot know for sure what will happen in another game until it is played, and that may or may not be this year.

All good points. One thing I would like to point out is that Mascoutah knocked off JCA in 2019 to make the semi-finals. That Mascoutah team finished fourth in the Mississippi Valley and 5-4 overall. So there is at least some recent precedent for the MVC hanging with the powerhouses of 4A/5A.
I still fully agree they are not on the same level of success with the CS8 or JCA, but given the right circumstances, they can and have won against them.

 

[St.Louisfootball]

Highland is a legit contender this year. They are very balanced this year, with a veteran quarterback. I wouldn’t want to play them.

 

[The_Oldfan]

Rochester for sure, SHG not. Lot of difference between Rochester and SHG this year. I think if Highland drops to 4A it would mean SHG in 3A but I could be wrong on that. It would be close. Calpreps has Highland a good 10 point favorite over Rochester.

I am no longer a betting man. If I were and you offered me Rochester and 4 points. I'd jump on it. Size and talent are, IMHO, fairly equal. The biggest difference is one man, a guy named Derek Leonard, possibly the best young coach in Illinois - with a string of recent state titles to prove it.

 

[paulie23]

The fact you think Morgan Park and Cahokia are similar this year says a lot. Good luck as I am rooting for 618

saying they share similarities isn’t that crazy buddy, as saying one play will determine how a team plays in the playoffs.. LHS Tigers huh can i get a quick reminder what town that is?

 

[paulie23]

saying they share similarities isn’t that crazy buddy, as saying one play will determine how a team plays in the playoffs.. LHS Tigers huh can i get a quick reminder what town that is?

Cahokia threw a deep ball to tie the game late and send to overtime. It was a desperation play similar to what you are going to see in playoff football when the game is on the line. Watching that play, there is no indicator that an adjustment can be made to stop it the next time around. I will also add that going in potentially at 4-5, MV will play a 1 seed in the first rd that should be much better than Cahokia. A team like Morgan Park is a great example. IMO it’s something to be concerned about.

see even you think they are similar teams …just bc morgan park is way better doesn’t mean they don’t share similarities…

 

[LHSTigers94]

see even you think they are similar teams …just bc morgan park is way better doesn’t mean they don’t share similarities…

In no way did I imply that they are similar. There is nothing similar about those two teams in terms of football! Absolutely nothing.

 

[cigaros]

People should stop disrespecting Cary Grove with these type of comments. CG was undefeated in both the spring and fall with no close games in the fall until beating ESL by 1. They were dominant the entire season.
As far as Mt Vernon goes, the way they lost to Cahokia could mean a very early playoff exit.

Preach! I was not impressed with Mt. Vernon in the last games.