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- Thread starter MC63
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IDK something like that might actually work if it was done fairly. AKA not just blindly forced on all Private schools. It would certainly be better then a complete split. I think a complete split would be disastrous to Illinois HS football as a whole.
Once it start, there is no turning back. Too many small public schools would vote to separate.
6A though? I truly believe that 2016 ICCP could have challenged and possibly won 6A but their other teams had competitive games in class 3A and 4A. Like I said, it’s a difficult situation to adjudicate. Definitely not a one size fits all kind of solution.
Somebody start a thread with this idea (I'm too lazy). It would be kind of interesting what teams people on here think this would be enforced on outside of the obvious one's, that is.
Obvious one's: Montini, JCA, ICC, SF, Naz, (most of the CCL / ESCC teams), etc.
Who else? potential teams: SHG, Bish Mac, etc.
Obvious one's: Montini, JCA, ICC, SF, Naz, (most of the CCL / ESCC teams), etc.
Who else? potential teams: SHG, Bish Mac, etc.
Being competitive is the goal, not championships. Only 8 teams can win per year. If you can visualize a team making it to the second round or higher, they probably should be in that class.
I think those teams should be in 6A. Naz is doing fine in 7A right now but I think for the long haul 6A is good for them as well.
Bishop Mac would never make it in 6a and with exception of certain years, 6a would be too much for ICCP long term.
I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on competitiveness. I truly do not like seeing a team breeze it’s way to a title and not be challenged or have any compelling games on the path. I suppose if it’s in the highest class it might be different. That doesn’t usually happen though.
I by no means was implying that Naz belongs in 6A, but they would be an obvious choice for teams that can go no lower than 6A.
That is the case for 80% of the schools in Illinois right? This is also why I said some. Currently the success of a small few is making live miserable for the privates. If schools were to play in a competitive class, we would be having the discussion of a split. Naz was forced up and is having success. The question is would Naz have agreed to play in 7A on their own. I don't know that answer but last years team would have been criminal if they were 5A. I think we can agree on that. To me playing CG in the championship is just as respectable as STCN.
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I think many here in Illinois have a skewed idea of where a team should belong because you know it really only applies to the playoffs (currently). So a team can play schools who are smaller or the same size plus some a little larger in their regular season and have a nice year going 6-3, 7-2, 8-1, or even 9-0 and if they have to play up in 6a and lose in round one or two who cares as that’s what would happen to 80% of teams in the state right. But most states (due to districts) and soon to be Illinois the entire regular season (save for 1-2 non-district games to open the season) will be played in that class. If you forced a Bishop Mac to play in a 6a district for the entire season they would be devastated and they may never see another 5-4 season as long as they play.
I’m interpreting his ideas in a non district format. Obviously in districts your classification is predetermined.
Playing “down” during the playoffs is one of if not *the* biggest factors to success, public or private. If you are are a “3A size” team playing a 5A/6A conference, by virtue of making the playoffs you are already a step above almost all of the other teams in the 3A playoffs. How teams are assembled or created to get there is yet another factor.
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Yeah it’s predetermined in districts but that doesn’t stop the use of a multiplier or success factor or playing up whether opting up or forced up. I’m sure that those who think private’s should have to play 6a or above regardless of size wouldn’t change their minds on that due to districts. They would still want Bishop Mac or ICCP or whoever else in a 6a district.
I personally think that IC and Mac don’t belong in 6A. Actually 4A seems like a good fit at the moment. I guess the next couple of weeks will decide, but the 4A north bracket looks like a good one with both public and private schools contending.
do a six category playoffs for public schools and a two category playoffs for privates. It is a fact that most private HS in Illinois are Catholic but this is not a pro- or anti- Catholic thing, nor should it be. Texas, Tennessee, New Jersey are a few states that separate. Good enough for Texas, good enough for me.
I'm not sure if Bishop Mac should be on this hypothetical list, but if they were, they would still be in the same conference they are now and would have the exact same chances of qualifying for the playoffs.
Why would you force Bishop Mac up. We are talking being competitive. Forcing into a non competitive situation is not goal.
It works in Texas because their Catholic / Private schools were never very good and never contended for any championships. Splitting them out in Texas was probably the Private's idea because they could not compete. Completely different scenario.
You obviously didn’t pick up on the word “district” or my prior post about how it would be different when districts kick in and a team is forced into a large class all season rather than just playoffs.
Because Bishop Mac was named with ICCP among others that should be in 6a or above.
Thanks for saving me some typing... he must be new here.
You missed the fact that you are the only person talking about Districts (that will never happen) and we are having a more realistic conversation about other possible ways to appease the publics without a total split.
“That will never happen”.... famous last words, as they say.
I listed Bishop Mac as an other(?), not an obvious. ICC most certainly would be on the list.
If ICC isn't on the list how can you have teams they beat like JCA & others on the list?
If Districts happen it will be a disaster and lead to a TOTAL Public / Private split.
Appeasing the publics will never happen
Well done. Great post.
This is the attitude that will lead to a split. Hardcore guys will say it’s great until it’s not so great anymore. Give them the NIPL. Dog eat dog. Eat cat too.
I personally like to see some equity and it seems like we are there for the most part. Sycamore and Sterling games will be big. A split would suck.
I still don't understand the urgency of forcing a split....Who is complaining?...If a public gets beat by a private, the public needs to get better...and a lot of times they do...just having the will to get better is enough, coaches work hard and should reap their rewards with success on the field through their players...that doesn't mean being gifted a "watered down" state championship trophy...I guess it's up to the individual to determine how success is measured...
True. I also think there's a lot of overthinking here. Complicated scenarios nearly always fail.
Public’s have put proposal back up to IHSA hoping for a vote to split... that’s who.
So are you suggesting that a 5-4 JCA who won their 4 games in the playoff 29,42,34 and 36 was in a competitive class in 5A last year? Congrats to them and they earned it however, a 5-4 should not Dominate the competition leading to the title game. It's not their fault but, to say no one should be concerned or they should just get better is not accurate either. This is why publics complain and look toward the split. People pretending like there isn't an imbalance with this situation. This year is headed in the same direction.
You don’t think their strong schedule taking lumps against bigger better schools in conference both impacted their 5-4 record and in making them a better team for the playoffs? Maybe it would help (it will happen with districts anyway except this wouldn’t be all one class like districts) if conferences weren’t all public and all private. If confernces were mixed where an oprf and Fenwick were in the same conference or LT and Naz (actually those 4 would probably all be in the same conference but you get my point) that may make everyone better but I know too many Public’s (even the huge ones like I mentioned) who wouldn’t be willing to do it as they have some sort of a moral opposition to giving any sort of validation to private’s by simply competing against them based on nothing but principle. Why do you think OPRF and LT won’t schedule Fenwick or Naz as non-con rivalry games.
Glad you mentioned it. There are no private schools close to Marion, Highland, etc. There is no option to do what you are suggesting. That is why there is a difference. Had JCA had the results in 6A, there wouldn't be an issue. 6A schools have the ability to assemble a team similar to JCA. 5A schools simply can't. Especially schools in the southern bracket of 5A.
You make it sound like there weren’t other private’s in the 5a bracket. 5a is traditionally a private heavy division. And they beat Montini in the championship game. An 8-1 montini who played in the CCL blue division losing to only brother rice who played in the 8a title game. Montini can put a team together like JCA can and they lost too!
You keep proving the point that is being made. Out of the entire 32, only one public school was able to give either private schools a game throughout the playoffs. This is a clear indicator that BOTH JCA and Montini should be in 6A at least. If both of them were in 6A, we wouldn't be having this discussion nor would the SF exist. I am sure the fans of both schools, JCA and Montini would agree that 6A is probably a good fit for their program.
Well if you bumped them to 6a the success factor would surely exist because that’s what you would be doing to get them to 6a!
All I know is district would be a disaster for most CCL/ESCC schools. Montini wouldn't have a decent football game until the playoffs from what Soucie laid out. Same with the other mentioned schools. Forgetting traditional rivalries,while at the same time playing teams, who had little if any chance to win is not my idea of what HS Football is about. I really don't like the way IHSA has handled some issues in the past and at present. They have in some cases not even followed their own rules and in otherpublicized cases not bothered to correct obviously unfair decisions. That said, separating into public and private categories, might not be such a good idea.
