I have no beef with changing the classification cycle.

I have a big beef with the following discussion item: "The Board discussed potentially developing a policy that would allow for the IHSA to partner with third-party groups that conduct state tournaments in Illinois in sports and activities that the IHSA does not currently offer. If developed and approved, the policy would allow a third-party group to continue to operate its state tournament, with the IHSA providing awards and support."

I don't want the IHSA anywhere near the state hockey tournament.

jha618 said:

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here. I cant remember the last time I heard a public school kid say that private school kid is 1.65x better than me.

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The difference between a whole number and 65% of one. Twice as good just has such a nice ring to it.

Just 2x as selective

HotBeer said:

Uhh... yes. Obviously? For the vast majority of society, the choice of high school is purely one of cost, convenience, demographics, and religion.

But when we are talking about the small sliver of society that is highly-football oriented 8th grade males, there is absolutely choice involved.

There are plenty of kids in Glenview or LaGrange who want to go to Loyola or Naz to play football instead of GBS or Lyons Township, and their parents, who might otherwise be happy to send them to GBS/LT, either agree or oblige them.

There are, similarly, kids in Park Ridge or Downers Grove who's parents would happily (or planned to) send them to ND or Pats, Benet or Fenwick, but who want to stay at MS or DGN because of football.

And to revisit my Westmont example, I almost assure you that every one of the best players on that team would choose to go to Montini if they had the option.

I realize that these options do not apply to EVERYONE, but my initial point was that successful public school football programs convince talented 8th grade football players to regularly "choose" them over the multitude of private options that exist.

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In there district you are absolutely correct. The youth programs are in there district yes they will talk to those kids. They will most likely attend their school. A handful will go private for various reasons. I understand the private recruiting and the need to bring in kids. I also understand when coaches from private schools attend these youth games they are recruiting them to come play for them. It’s totally legal and I have no problem with it. You can look at my posts and I don’t whine about losing to a private. It happens and the next year maybe not. The issue at hand is trying to come up with a system that allows both Privates and publics to be competitive and fair.

jha618 said:

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here. I cant remember the last time I heard a public school kid say that private school kid is 1.65x better than me.

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That's just his schtick, he's convinced everyone whoever attended a public school is against privates and their success rather than a small number that are the most vocal.

ramblinman said:

What could go wrong? Increasing the multiplier to 2 and eliminating all waivers will make public school kids believe that private school kids really are twice as good as them and will spark an even deeper downward spiral of their competitive spirit and effectiveness relative to private schools.

Just a thought.

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I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here. I cant remember the last time I heard a public school kid say that private school kid is 1.65x better than me.

What could go wrong? Increasing the multiplier to 2 and eliminating all waivers will make public school kids believe that private school kids really are twice as good as them and will spark an even deeper downward spiral of their competitive spirit and effectiveness relative to private schools.

Just a thought.

ramblinman AND HRCJR
It appears to me that one of your biggest financial investments ( paying private school tuition ) has also payed you one of the largest and most satisfying dividends in life. Well done !

corey90 said:

Let’s not kid ourselves the parents are the entire hand. They are the ones paying. You are correct in kids go to LWE my kids included. Great school great coaching and nice town/community. In my case it was an easy decision and believe me the taxes in Frankfort is like paying tuition. Now depending where you live it may make sense to go private. I mean if the public school in your district isn’t up to par well as a parent you may want to pay a tuition. Some parents that have money may decide to live in a nice area and pay high taxes but still send their kids to a private. Many different reasons.

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Uhh... yes. Obviously? For the vast majority of society, the choice of high school is purely one of cost, convenience, demographics, and religion.

But when we are talking about the small sliver of society that is highly-football oriented 8th grade males, there is absolutely choice involved.

There are plenty of kids in Glenview or LaGrange who want to go to Loyola or Naz to play football instead of GBS or Lyons Township, and their parents, who might otherwise be happy to send them to GBS/LT, either agree or oblige them.

There are, similarly, kids in Park Ridge or Downers Grove who's parents would happily (or planned to) send them to ND or Pats, Benet or Fenwick, but who want to stay at MS or DGN because of football.

And to revisit my Westmont example, I almost assure you that every one of the best players on that team would choose to go to Montini if they had the option.

I realize that these options do not apply to EVERYONE, but my initial point was that successful public school football programs convince talented 8th grade football players to regularly "choose" them over the multitude of private options that exist.

Upsets happen all the time, and there have been a bunch this year. Look at the first couple years of 4 team playoff. There were so many blowouts in the 1st round. It can go either way

HotBeer said:

Yes, they "choose" their respective public school in lieu of their private options, when and where those options exists.

Obviously parents have a huge hand in this. But yes, the best football players at, for example, LWE, are choosing not to attend Providence. The best football players in Westmont are "choosing" to attend literally a Catholic school instead of Westmont High. Etc. Etc.

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Let’s not kid ourselves the parents are the entire hand. They are the ones paying. You are correct in kids go to LWE my kids included. Great school great coaching and nice town/community. In my case it was an easy decision and believe me the taxes in Frankfort is like paying tuition. Now depending where you live it may make sense to go private. I mean if the public school in your district isn’t up to par well as a parent you may want to pay a tuition. Some parents that have money may decide to live in a nice area and pay high taxes but still send their kids to a private. Many different reasons.

ramblinman said:

Amen.

16 years of Catholic education here from 1st grade through college. 16 years each for two of my kids and 12 for one of them who we failed to stop from going over to the dark side in college. Two of them went on to get their masters from private institutions (one of them faith based). As much as I like to imagine what I could have done with all that tuition money and had my kids belly up to the public education trough instead, it's the best investment we ever made.

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Completely agree the investment was worth it. Best part was that going from Jesuit HS to Jesuit College with well earned scholarships made college tuition less than Ignatius. He also said he was extremely well prepared for college, especially when it came to writing. Something many of his college classmates struggled with. Some who may have not had grammar, and clear and concise writing beaten into them (mostly figuratively).

My dad said never total up the tuition payments you have made. Just enjoy the fruits of money well spent.

HRCJR said:

I found these lines interesting in Beltbuckletogoalpost's post: A public school cannot look for potential gaps in their roster and fill it by looking for the heir apparent. They have to coach whoever is in their community.

That may be true but the coach can do everything ha can to make sure he enrolls at his government run school. My son grew up in Riverside and played school football at St. Mary. His team practiced at Riverside Brookfield HS, the RB coach talked to the team several times about playing at RB, had the team to games on Friday nights.

Not one kid in my son's 8th grade class played football at RB. But roughly 10 played at Fenwick, Ignatius, Mt. Carmel or Nazareth. Like many Catholic kids in the Chicago area most were destined to attend a Catholic High School, while others destine to attend a certain Catholic high school. My son chose between Fenwick and Ignatius. He chose Ignatius.

My parents went from grade school through college at Catholic schools. All four of their kids went to Catholic grade schools and high schools. 3 of 4 went to Catholic colleges. The one who did not went to Notre Dame for graduate school.

All 9 of my parents' grand children went to Catholic grade schools. 8 went to Loyola Academy and 1 to Ignatius. Of the 7 out of high school 6 went to Catholic colleges. Odds are the other two will as well.

My wife and her brother (who married his Catholic grade school classmate) are very similar. Her brother is in the Bay Area has 4 kids who all who attended Catholic Grade schools. The 2 boys went to Serra in San Mateo and the girls are at St. Ignatius in San Francisco.

I think many have believe that kids choose a Catholic High School based on recruiting. Many times the recruiting is between two Catholic Schools. I would say the number of kids who choose a Catholic school over a public school based on recruiting is much lower than Thor thinks. For many, public schools re not even a consideration.

Just the way it is.

AMDG

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Amen.

16 years of Catholic education here from 1st grade through college. 16 years each for two of my kids and 12 for one of them who we failed to stop from going over to the dark side in college. Two of them went on to get their masters from private institutions (one of them faith based). As much as I like to imagine what I could have done with all that tuition money and had my kids belly up to the public education trough instead, it's the best investment we ever made.

A long time ago either here or on the old Tribune message board, back when I was even feistier than I am now, I posted something along the following lines: The dislike and distrust that public school apologists have for private schools run way deeper than just athletics. Could it be that many public school apologists dislike private schools so much because they suffer from an inferiority complex? Could they be lashing out at private schools because that's how they subconsciously cope with whatever nagging doubt they might feel that either they or their parents didn't value their or their kids' education enough to pay extra for it? It's sort of along the lines of public school families asking themselves, "What do private school families know that we don't such that they are willing to sacrifice and pay extra for schooling and we aren't? What does that say about me as a parent who proudly wants to give my kids the best of everything? Am I shortchanging my kids?" I imagine this is how the neighbors feel about the Joneses with whom they cannot keep up. Is it a money thing? With some public school families, I think it very well could be. It could also be tradition, distrust of the unknown, and an aversion to any type of organized religion or some combination of the four things.

Are the above assumptions? You betcha. I contend, however, that if they really get under public school folks' skin and stick in their craw, then perhaps there is more than just a grain of truth to them.

IgorStL said:

StL 512

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Thats great news for Larry

colin2229 said:

Caleb Tucker (Aka - Bonecrusher) from Mt Carmel will be the highest rated player ever from the state of Illinois.

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Just got offered by Illinois. At least they are in early but no chance they land that elite of a prospect.

I found these lines interesting in Beltbuckletogoalpost's post: A public school cannot look for potential gaps in their roster and fill it by looking for the heir apparent. They have to coach whoever is in their community.

That may be true but the coach can do everything ha can to make sure he enrolls at his government run school. My son grew up in Riverside and played school football at St. Mary. His team practiced at Riverside Brookfield HS, the RB coach talked to the team several times about playing at RB, had the team to games on Friday nights.

Not one kid in my son's 8th grade class played football at RB. But roughly 10 played at Fenwick, Ignatius, Mt. Carmel or Nazareth. Like many Catholic kids in the Chicago area most were destined to attend a Catholic High School, while others destine to attend a certain Catholic high school. My son chose between Fenwick and Ignatius. He chose Ignatius.

My parents went from grade school through college at Catholic schools. All four of their kids went to Catholic grade schools and high schools. 3 of 4 went to Catholic colleges. The one who did not went to Notre Dame for graduate school.

All 9 of my parents' grand children went to Catholic grade schools. 8 went to Loyola Academy and 1 to Ignatius. Of the 7 out of high school 6 went to Catholic colleges. Odds are the other two will as well.

My wife and her brother (who married his Catholic grade school classmate) are very similar. Her brother is in the Bay Area has 4 kids who all who attended Catholic Grade schools. The 2 boys went to Serra in San Mateo and the girls are at St. Ignatius in San Francisco.

I think many have believe that kids choose a Catholic High School based on recruiting. Many times the recruiting is between two Catholic Schools. I would say the number of kids who choose a Catholic school over a public school based on recruiting is much lower than Thor thinks. For many, public schools re not even a consideration.

Just the way it is.

AMDG

Alexander32 said:

The request you made in your first sentence is fulfilled by your second sentence. You ask to be shown where you said 1-32 seeding would solve anything. Then, your very next sentence states you hope 1-32 seeding will solve the problem of uncompetitive championship games.

Your frustration with the never-ending debate over the public/private situation is understandable. That frustration results, at least in part, with you writing: "Either put up or shut up...". Several of the posters to this board have responded over the years by offering very comprehensive proposals to address the issues. They have, to use your words, "put up". However, they have done so with the understanding they are among the least influential individuals having an interest in the matter.

You, on the other hand, have some level of connection with quite a few high school coaches in the state of Illinois. Have you ever thought about submitting a comprehensive solution/proposal yourself, "putting up" so to speak? You could develop your own proposal or adopt one of the several excellent proposals that have already been posted to this message board. As a man of some influence, you would be providing an opportunity for Illinois high school football to be improved, as you have already done in so many other ways. Developing your own proposal may be a larger commitment than you would want to make, but forwarding (to one or more coaches) one of the proposals that have already been posted would only take an hour or two out your busy schedule. Doing so could potentially prove hugely beneficial. It is understood that the coach(s) would not likely be authorized on their own to submit a proposal to the IHSA membership, but they could work with their athletic director and principal to do so.

Letting the chips fall where they may is more easily done after one has made a good faith effort to solve a problem.

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Ummm you overlooked one very important word....HOPE