Wouldnt SFDS have covered 5 parishes if limited to the east side and hegewisch and possibly 7 more if kevins, sacred heart, gate of heaven, and some of the south chicago parishes were in its reach? A lot of times you had churches 2-3 nlocks apart, but they catered to different etnicities (polish, irish, croatian) at their inception.
Yesterday's blowouts...wake up IHSA!
- Thread starter Ogre5530
- Start date
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
So you are talking about grammar school?
I went to the grammar school/parish I lived in then went to the catholic high school that I could walk to.
If you are from the south side you understand how cut throat it is to get students not just athletes to attend a certain catholic school.
I went to the grammar school/parish I lived in then went to the catholic high school that I could walk to.
If you are from the south side you understand how cut throat it is to get students not just athletes to attend a certain catholic school.
Please stop with this. Limit CATHOLIC HIGH SCHOOL to only certain parishes. Do understand how long and deep some families run within certain Catholic League High Schools? St Rita and Carmel would close tomorrow if they relied on the parishes around them
To add CoM has all of Lake county,IL to recruit from yet it has made the playoffs 1 once in 4 yrs while its neighboring to the east Libertyville took 2nd in 7A this yr and its neighbor to the south Stevenson won 8A last yr.
As long as the football players are paying tuition like all the other students, what can you do? If they get a break because they are good football players that is a different story. As for Carmel, yea they have missed the playoffs, it is darn hard to get families to pay full tuition when LHS or SHS is right there, and paid for. You can add LZ as well. Also, Buncic transferred to LHS from Carmel, and Lees' older brothers all played for Carmel. Why is none of my business, but it points out the difficulty Carmel can have getting/keeping players. I can just about guarantee with those two guys Carmel makes the playoffs. In the end privates & publics work with different rules, and the IHSA tries to balance the competitive field. I have no problem with that at all, but IMO it hurts MOST privates and doesn't seem to impact the few that keep winning.
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
Or they would move...
Look, Snetsrak61 asked the question. I gave one possible answer. Sorry you don't like it...
Or the southside 3 of the CCL Blue (maybe also DeLasalle) would:
1. get grandfathered (e.g. remain with the simple 30 mile radius) due to demographic hardship, history
2. get parishes assigned on a wagon-wheel basis extending southward
3. BR/SR/MC get an overlay district covering B-MG and nearby areas.
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
From today's Southtown...
Wierzal said one of the keys for the next coach to achieve greater success will be an ability to consistently attract impact players from local feeder programs to Sandburg. Many top players in Orland Park in recent years have chosen more successful private schools.
"We've lost a few of those battles and it takes a toll on the program," he said. "Some years it was more severe than others. But it was frustrating. You have to keep the Orland Park kids in the community."
Wierzal said one of the keys for the next coach to achieve greater success will be an ability to consistently attract impact players from local feeder programs to Sandburg. Many top players in Orland Park in recent years have chosen more successful private schools.
"We've lost a few of those battles and it takes a toll on the program," he said. "Some years it was more severe than others. But it was frustrating. You have to keep the Orland Park kids in the community."
I still don't know you point?
Parents want their kids to get a Catholic education so they are going to send them to a catholic school. This has been going on before any of us were around and will continue when we are long gone. There isn't a rule that the IHSA can come up with to change someone from making that choice.
The coach from Sandburg is right that they lose out on players/students. And you know what those players/students' families do, they pay taxes in that school district and pay a high tuition for the Catholic school
Parents want their kids to get a Catholic education so they are going to send them to a catholic school. This has been going on before any of us were around and will continue when we are long gone. There isn't a rule that the IHSA can come up with to change someone from making that choice.
The coach from Sandburg is right that they lose out on players/students. And you know what those players/students' families do, they pay taxes in that school district and pay a high tuition for the Catholic school
Last edited:
Hey, coach, if you can't keep Orland kids, perhaps you can find more players from Bolingbrook to attend Sandburg...
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
My point is that public school coaches believe that it is unfair that private schools can recruit kids to come to their school to play sports and there is little that they can do about it. Wirtzal is just the latest one to suffer from it.
Within the 30 miles from Sandburg are the following Catholic high schools
google maps provide the mileage - Driving distance)
Montini 24.8 miles
JCA 23.5 miles
Mt Carmel 22.4 miles
Providence 15.7 miles
Nazareth Academy 15.3 miles
St Rita 13.4 miles
St Laurence 10.7 miles
Brother Rice 10.5 miles
Marist 9.1 miles
That's a lot of competition...
Within the 30 miles from Sandburg are the following Catholic high schools
google maps provide the mileage - Driving distance) Montini 24.8 miles
JCA 23.5 miles
Mt Carmel 22.4 miles
Providence 15.7 miles
Nazareth Academy 15.3 miles
St Rita 13.4 miles
St Laurence 10.7 miles
Brother Rice 10.5 miles
Marist 9.1 miles
That's a lot of competition...
My point is that public school coaches believe that it is unfair that private schools can recruit kids to come to their school to play sports and there is little that they can do about it. Wirtzal is just the latest one to suffer from it.
Within the 30 miles from Sandburg are the following Catholic high schools
Montini 24.8 miles
JCA 23.5 miles
Mt Carmel 22.4 miles
Providence 15.7 miles
Nazareth Academy 15.3 miles
St Rita 13.4 miles
St Laurence 10.7 miles
Brother Rice 10.5 miles
Marist 9.1 miles
That's a lot of competition...
Suffer from it? Gimme a break. Let's go through the same exercise for Glenbard West:
DePaul Prep 30 miles
Marist 29.8 miles
Brother Rice 27.3 miles
Notre Dame 27.0 miles
St Laurence 26.3 miles
St Ignatius 23.8 miles
St Patrick 22.8 miles
Aurora Central Catholic 22.1 miles
Guerin Prep 20.3 miles
St Viator 19.6 miles
St Edward 19.5 miles
Fenwick 16.7 miles
Marmion 15.9 miles
Nazareth 13.7 miles
St Joseph 11.2 miles
Benet 8.2 miles
IC Prep 6.6 miles
Montini 5.5 miles
St Francis 5.2 miles
And these are just the Catholic schools. There are a handful of other football playing non-Catholic private schools within a 30 mile radius of GW.
THAT'S a lot of competition as well. Hard to believe one of those schools couldn't just "get" Brodner, huh? I wonder why GW doesn't seem to have the same "suffering" problem as Sandburg, or if they have it, they have found a way to win anyway.
I find it very interesting that a coach of one of the most highly regarded and largest public schools in the state would be whining about losing players to private schools. Do ya think the fact that his Sandburg teams are 2-7 in the playoffs during his tenure might have something to do with it?
Get Better. Coach Better. Get Better coaches on your staff. Attend the Saturday/Sunday morning youth games and mingle with parents and coaches. Run clinics and camps with those coaches so they get to know you and trust your program. Run Jr. Bulldog/Lion/Redhawk/Panther/etc. nights for your program on Friday nights so the kids get excited about your program. Let kids know you have D1-D3 schools recruiting your school and they can get to that level as well. Run summer camps for youth. Put in the effort to do everything on your end to get the kids to stay at home in your district. Met with the kids to let them know they will be a big part of your program. If you can't put in the time to do the above, stop complaining about private schools.My point is that public school coaches believe that it is unfair that private schools can recruit kids to come to their school to play sports and there is little that they can do about it. Wirtzal is just the latest one to suffer from it.
Within the 30 miles from Sandburg are the following Catholic high schools
Montini 24.8 miles
JCA 23.5 miles
Mt Carmel 22.4 miles
Providence 15.7 miles
Nazareth Academy 15.3 miles
St Rita 13.4 miles
St Laurence 10.7 miles
Brother Rice 10.5 miles
Marist 9.1 miles
That's a lot of competition...
Not everyone will attend public school, there are long lines of families that have attended Benet/Naz/Montini/Mt.Carmel, etc. for generations. They will still go there regardless of how great the public school is.
And, if you can prove that a private school is paying for some kid to go there because of athletics and athletics only, turn them in to the IHSA. If you can't prove it, and the kid is going there because they want to attend that said school because of a variety of factors (academics, family lineage, athletics, don't want to attend public school, etc. ) leave them alone.
A
anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
Answering a question with a Question... Is Sandburg 2-7 in the playoffs due to coaching or losing kids to other schools?
Some of those schools could have shown up on my list as well. Your post shows how large the problem is.
Answering the question with a question, were not those same Catholic schools around (and enrolling more students than they do now) when Coach Mike Navarro compiled a playoff record of 11-9 at Sandburg between 1993 and 2001? Navarro had a nine year tenure and the current coach has been there for eight.
How does Coach Hetlet do it at GW if the problem is as large as you claim it to be? How does he compile an 8 year (same tenure as the Sandburg coach) record of 102-13 with two state titles, a second place finish and three semifinal losses DESPITE competing with ALL those Catholic schools for students?
It CAN be done!
The one thing you have yet to discuss is the quality of school academically. This is another reason why some publics lose out to private. GW is a strong academic school in an affluent neighborhood.
Couldnt agree more. Be Better, dont blame the guy next to you. Catholic schools can recruit all they want and they should. They need to keep the doors open. 9 out of 10 tens Catholic schools are competing with each other kids, especially on the southside.
Students/families still have to pay tuition and thats a huge sacrifice that many parents take upon themselves so their kids can go to Catholic Schools. When anyone from a public school complains about this I take huge a offense due to the sacrifice of many families.
Public Schools especially the ones in Lincoln Ways, Naperville, Wheaton, and Glenbard know exactly which players they are getting at a young age probably starting around 5th grade. Their park district teams usually run the same type of the program that the High School may run. Catholic School do not have the legislature at all.
Students/families still have to pay tuition and thats a huge sacrifice that many parents take upon themselves so their kids can go to Catholic Schools. When anyone from a public school complains about this I take huge a offense due to the sacrifice of many families.
Public Schools especially the ones in Lincoln Ways, Naperville, Wheaton, and Glenbard know exactly which players they are getting at a young age probably starting around 5th grade. Their park district teams usually run the same type of the program that the High School may run. Catholic School do not have the legislature at all.
LWeastDad
You can't win this battle. Privates have a completely different view and I get it. I don't necessarily agree but I do get it an respect there opinions.
Great formula and I agree. Some private have the formula however I can't understand why those with great coaching, great players and great program FEAR Playing up or whine a or the SF or multiplier. Could the reason for their compliant be the same for the public supporters that the privates speak so badly about?
Believe it's not necessarily playing up and more how the multiplier and SF were implemented.
Remember, the initial implementation of the multiplier was done so without a full member vote (hence the law suit), and I believe (could be wrong) did not include the waiver program. There was a valid gripe at how this was done, once corrected that issue seems to have gone away. It's now a way of life.
The SF only applies to non-boundaried. In my humble opinion, this is also a valid compliant for privates. We saw a Rochester team, that clearly showed they deserved the honor of competing at a higher level come playoffs, get ignored by the SF implementation.
I personally feel both the multiplier and SF are appropriate measures to handle schools with extraordinary success at their enrollment based classifications. However, in the case of the multiplier, it can impact schools that are not deserving or in need of said adjustment, and in the case of the SF, should be applied to both non-boundaried and publics.
Couldn't agree more - using the IHSA Success Adjustment definition for success (2 finals in the last four years, and 1 in the last 2), the following numbers of schools would be deemed “successful”.
2003 – 2006; 8 teams; 5 public & 3 private
2004 – 2007; 13 teams; 9 public & 4 private
2005 – 2008; 13 teams; 10 public & 3 private
2006 – 2009; 9 teams; 6 public & 3 private
2007 – 2010; 10 teams; 8 public & 2 private
2008 - 2011; 13 teams; 9 public & 4 private
2009 – 2012; 14 teams; 9 public & 5 private
2010 – 2013; 12 teams; 6 public & 6 private
2011 – 2014; 7 teams; 3 public & 4 private
2012 – 2015; 13 teams; 8 public & 5 private
And I honestly have no idea how far the Catholics go to recruit, or how far students actually travel to some of of the schools (has anyone ever seen any data on it?), but having lived and worked in the Chicago metro area for a long time, anyone traveling more than about 10 miles to school in Chicago area traffic does not need a Catholic school, because they are already in line for Sainthood!
How about a multiplier based on how far away a student lives? Within say, 7 miles there is no multiplier; 7-15 miles is a 1.5 multiplier and anything over 15 miles counts as 2. Or something along those lines...
