Who’s number 1?

[illinifan67]

So, what you are saying is that EStL is talent wise closer to Cary-Grove than they are close to Bosco?

I guess, although ESL is very good I don't think they are at the same place as IMG and Bosco.

The same way Brian Scalabrine claims "he is way closer to being as good as Lebron James than you are to be as good as him."

Brian Scalabrine To A Heckler Who Challenged Him To A 1-On-1: "I'm Closer To LeBron Than You Are To Me."

NBA fans don't seem to understand how gifted NBA players are and the big gap that exists between them and the rest of us. It happened recently when they

fadeawayworld.net

 

[corey90]

You’re just an 8A snob LOL. 😜 I’d like to see LP and ESL play each other.

That would be a good match up. I would love to see LWE play ESL, JCA & CG. I think they would all be good games. We can only dream. Lol
I like seeing teams play each other for the first time.

 

[Cross Bones]

I guess, although ESL is very good I don't think they are at the same place as IMG and Bosco.

The same way Brian Scalabrine claims "he is way closer to being as good as Lebron James than you are to be as good as him."

Brian Scalabrine To A Heckler Who Challenged Him To A 1-On-1: "I'm Closer To LeBron Than You Are To Me."

NBA fans don't seem to understand how gifted NBA players are and the big gap that exists between them and the rest of us. It happened recently when they

fadeawayworld.net

We never watched Brian play LeBron one on one, and never watched Scal play the heckler. That's all speculation.

What isn't speculation is how EStL measured against Bosco and IMG and how they match up with IL high school teams. I think the media and board (not EStL fans) have participated in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between East Side and the rest of the state AND whether a handful of D1 athletes = a more talented roster. EStL is a great program with yearly high end players and they play an exciting brand of football, but pretending they are heads and shoulders above anyone they step on the field with is A) untrue and B) unfair to them in that it creates a narrative where making it to state and losing to another great team is considered a failure when it should be considered an accomplishment.

 

[mchsalumni]

We never watched Brian play LeBron one on one, and never watched Scal play the heckler. That's all speculation.

What isn't speculation is how EStL measured against Bosco and IMG and how they match up with IL high school teams. I think the media and board (not EStL fans) have participated in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between East Side and the rest of the state AND whether a handful of D1 athletes = a more talented roster. EStL is a great program with yearly high end players and they play an exciting brand of football, but pretending they are heads and shoulders above anyone they step on the field with is A) untrue and B) unfair to them in that it creates a narrative where making it to state and losing to another great team is considered a failure when it should be considered an accomplishment.

Well said. I love their brand of football, but the deification of the program doesn't help them. At all.

 

[mchsalumni]

That would be a good match up. I would love to see LWE play ESL, JCA & CG. I think they would all be good games. We can only dream. Lol
I like seeing teams play each other for the first time.

The short-lived LWE-Montini home and home was must see football.

 

[Alexander32]

We never watched Brian play LeBron one on one, and never watched Scal play the heckler. That's all speculation.

What isn't speculation is how EStL measured against Bosco and IMG and how they match up with IL high school teams. I think the media and board (not EStL fans) have participated in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between East Side and the rest of the state AND whether a handful of D1 athletes = a more talented roster. EStL is a great program with yearly high end players and they play an exciting brand of football, but pretending they are heads and shoulders above anyone they step on the field with is A) untrue and B) unfair to them in that it creates a narrative where making it to state and losing to another great team is considered a failure when it should be considered an accomplishment.

Sort of like how some people participate in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between 8A and the rest of the classes. Pretending 8A is heads and shoulders above all the other classes is A) untrue, and B) unfair.

That is why an 8A semifinalist can finish fourth in a conference behind two 7A teams. It is also why a 4A team can beat a 7A semifinalist; a different 4A team can beat another 7A semifinalist; and a 6A team that doesn't get past the second round can beat a 7A quarterfinalist 27-0. And yet, some on this board would have us believe a 6A champion doesn't stand a chance against any top-five 8A team. Such a conclusion is pure speculation.

Notes:
1) Brother Rice and Mt. Carmel ahead of Marist
2) Joliet Catholic over Brother Rice
3) St. Francis over Prospect
4) St. Ignatius over Mt. Carmel

 

[Cross Bones]

Sort of like how some people participate in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between 8A and the rest of the classes. Pretending 8A is heads and shoulders above all the other classes is A) untrue, and B) unfair.

That is why an 8A semifinalist can finish fourth in a conference behind two 7A teams. It is also why a 4A team can beat a 7A semifinalist; a different 4A team can beat another 7A semifinalist; and a 6A team that doesn't get past the second round can beat a 7A quarterfinalist 27-0. And yet, some on this board would have us believe a 6A champion doesn't stand a chance against any top-five 8A team. Such a conclusion is pure speculation.

Notes:
1) Brother Rice and Mt. Carmel ahead of Marist
2) Joliet Catholic over Brother Rice
3) St. Francis over Prospect
4) St. Ignatius over Mt. Carmel

Not at all. You seem to be new to the discussion and not understand how this works. Enrollment at private schools means next to nothing, that's why all your examples use private schools. Seems pretty obvious. That's why private school conferences the ESCC for example will have schools from 4A or 5A all the way to 8A. Please show me a public conference with 4A and 8A schools in it. There is a reason why people want JCA to move up and not Loyola to move down.

 

[USD24]

Not at all. You seem to be new to the discussion and not understand how this works. Enrollment at private schools means next to nothing, that's why all your examples use private schools. Seems pretty obvious. That's why private school conferences the ESCC for example will have schools from 4A or 5A all the way to 8A. Please show me a public conference with 4A and 8A schools in it. There is a reason why people want JCA to move up and not Loyola to move down.

The Chicago Public League. The Southwestern Conference, the Fox Valley, the Southland all have teams from 5A-8A and the South Suburban Red has teams ranging from 4A-7A.

 

[Cross Bones]

The Chicago Public League. The Southwestern Conference, the Fox Valley, the Southland all have teams from 5A-8A and the South Suburban Red has teams ranging from 4A-7A.

Not seeing the 4A school in the Southwestern and Fox Valley. I have no idea about the CPL.

 

[LHSTigers94]

The Chicago Public League. The Southwestern Conference, the Fox Valley, the Southland all have teams from 5A-8A and the South Suburban Red has teams ranging from 4A-7A.

The SWC has all 7A and 8A school with ESL being the only exception based on enrollment dropping.

 

[USD24]

The SWC has all 7A and 8A school with ESL being the only exception based on enrollment dropping.

Yes, but ESL is a 5A school

 

[USD24]

Not seeing the 4A school in the Southwestern and Fox Valley. I have no idea about the CPL.

Agree, I stated that those conferences have 5A schools. The CPL has schools as small at 2A

 

[LHSTigers94]

Yes, but ESL is a 5A school

yes in 2021. Historically no which eliminates the SWC from the argument.

 

[illinifan67]

We never watched Brian play LeBron one on one, and never watched Scal play the heckler. That's all speculation.

What isn't speculation is how EStL measured against Bosco and IMG and how they match up with IL high school teams. I think the media and board (not EStL fans) have participated in too much hyperbole in regards to the perceived "talent gap" between East Side and the rest of the state AND whether a handful of D1 athletes = a more talented roster. EStL is a great program with yearly high end players and they play an exciting brand of football, but pretending they are heads and shoulders above anyone they step on the field with is A) untrue and B) unfair to them in that it creates a narrative where making it to state and losing to another great team is considered a failure when it should be considered an accomplishment.

Well in the article you can clearly see Scal play the heckler, and he destroys him without giving up a point, but that is a completely different argument, just giving an example.

I think that ESL sets the standard of State or bust is based on how they perceive themselves. They set the standard that they are a national-level team. Should making it to state be considered an accomplishment YES, for most programs it is. But when you perceive your program as a national level caliber and you are one of the only if not the only team in your state that consistently plays other powerhouse programs from other states (I know it is easier for them to cross over with MO since they are 10 minutes away).

ESL is 64-9 since 2016 overall, 59-4 in that same timespan playing against only IL teams. That's damn good.

Back to my original argument, it's hard to beat ESL when they have a great team (like this year) because they have so many great athletes on the field at one time. I believe the best bet to beat them is a very good discipline triple-option team (Ex. CG.). Is it impossible to beat them playing a spread?, NO, but I would say the odds are against you because I'm not sure many if any school's athletes in the state will be better than theirs. The whole premise of a spread is to get your athletes in space, playing right into ESL hands.

 

[USD24]

Well in the article you can clearly see Scal play the heckler, and he destroys him without giving up a point, but that is a completely different argument, just giving an example.

I think that ESL sets the standard of State or bust is based on how they perceive themselves. They set the standard that they are a national-level team. Should making it to state be considered an accomplishment YES, for most programs it is. But when you perceive your program as a national level caliber and you are one of the only if not the only team in your state that consistently plays other powerhouse programs from other states (I know it is easier for them to cross over with MO since they are 10 minutes away).

ESL is 64-9 since 2016 overall, 59-4 in that same timespan playing against only IL teams. That's damn good.

Back to my original argument, it's hard to beat ESL when they have a great team (like this year) because they have so many great athletes on the field at one time. I believe the best bet to beat them is a very good discipline triple-option team (Ex. CG.). Is it impossible to beat them playing a spread?, NO, but I would say the odds are against you because I'm not sure many if any school's athletes in the state will be better than theirs. The whole premise of a spread is to get your athletes in space, playing right into ESL hands.

We don't know how they would have done against elite Illinois teams this year because they only played one, CG, and lost.

 

[epicbret]

Maybe. Just Maybe. Illinois teams at the top of the pile are closer to "national" prowess than folks admit.

ESL might indeed be a "national" team, rightfully playing a "national" schedule. Others also might be capable, but don't pursue it.

 

[Cross Bones]

Well in the article you can clearly see Scal play the heckler, and he destroys him without giving up a point, but that is a completely different argument, just giving an example.

I think that ESL sets the standard of State or bust is based on how they perceive themselves. They set the standard that they are a national-level team. Should making it to state be considered an accomplishment YES, for most programs it is. But when you perceive your program as a national level caliber and you are one of the only if not the only team in your state that consistently plays other powerhouse programs from other states (I know it is easier for them to cross over with MO since they are 10 minutes away).

ESL is 64-9 since 2016 overall, 59-4 in that same timespan playing against only IL teams. That's damn good.

Back to my original argument, it's hard to beat ESL when they have a great team (like this year) because they have so many great athletes on the field at one time. I believe the best bet to beat them is a very good discipline triple-option team (Ex. CG.). Is it impossible to beat them playing a spread?, NO, but I would say the odds are against you because I'm not sure many if any school's athletes in the state will be better than theirs. The whole premise of a spread is to get your athletes in space, playing right into ESL hands.

It's hard to beat good teams in general, EStL is a good team. It's hard to beat good teams for the reasons that make them good, some have a number of guys projected to be college players some just have good high school players. It doesn't matter what scheme you run, if your guys are not good enough to match up you're going to lose and lose badly. C-G's guys were good enough to match up. MC's guys were good enough to match up. Richard's guys were good enough to match up. One year Bradley guys were good enough to match up. NV guys were good enough to match up.

 

[Alexander32]

Agree, I stated that those conferences have 5A schools. The CPL has schools as small at 2A

It is tiresome reading posts from Cross Bones. He is rarely right on any topic, and yet comes across as if he believes himself to be some kind of oracle. There are only two constants. First, even when one of his posts is proven to be unequivocally incorrect, such as you have done here, he cannot bring himself to admit his error. He just moves on to his next erroneous post. Second, he is so devoted to Bolingbrook High School, the Southwest Suburban Blue Conference, and class 8A, that anything he writes on this site is borderline delusional.

The fact that 5A East St. Louis (before petitioning up to 6A) generally dominates the 8A/7A Southwestern Conference, and 4A Rochester generally dominates the 6A Central State Eight Conference [not to mention beating St. Rita handily for the 2019 state championship], and that 6A Lake Forest finished second this year in the 8A/7A North Suburban Conference (losing to 8A Warren by four points for the championship) would make any rational person pause and question their underlying assumptions; but not someone of his ilk.

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team [That's right Cross Bones I said it, East St. Louis was a superb team, not just good!!!] , then one may easily conceive of the possibility that Cary-Grove may be a better team than Lockport. Such a notion, however, cannot be allowed into the mind of the oracle Cross Bones. It would be sacrilegious.

 

[mchsalumni]

It is tiresome reading posts from Cross Bones. He is rarely right on any topic, and yet comes across as if he believes himself to be some kind of oracle. There are only two constants. First, even when one of his posts is proven to be unequivocally incorrect, such as you have done here, he cannot bring himself to admit his error. He just moves on to his next erroneous post. Second, he is so devoted to Bolingbrook High School, the Southwest Suburban Blue Conference, and class 8A, that anything he writes on this site is borderline delusional.

The fact that 5A East St. Louis (before petitioning up to 6A) generally dominates the 8A/7A Southwestern Conference, and 4A Rochester generally dominates the 6A Central State Eight Conference [not to mention beating St. Rita handily for the 2019 state championship], and that 6A Lake Forest finished second this year in the 8A/7A North Suburban Conference (losing to 8A Warren by four points for the championship) would make any rational person pause and question their underlying assumptions; but not someone of his ilk.

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team [That's right Cross Bones I said it, East St. Louis was a superb team, not just good!!!] , then one may easily conceive of the possibility that Cary-Grove may be a better team than Lockport. Such a notion, however, cannot be allowed into the mind of the oracle Cross Bones. It would be sacrilegious.

While I don’t disagree that @Cross Bones can be stubborn, the point of a run in the 8A playoffs can be a bit trickier than 6A is not lost on me.

Example: Cincinnati beat ND in the regular season. Does it mean they could beat Michigan and Georgia in the playoff? Maybe, but it sure as hell will be difficult and unlikely.

 

[Gene K.]

It is tiresome reading posts from Cross Bones. He is rarely right on any topic, and yet comes across as if he believes himself to be some kind of oracle. There are only two constants. First, even when one of his posts is proven to be unequivocally incorrect, such as you have done here, he cannot bring himself to admit his error. He just moves on to his next erroneous post. Second, he is so devoted to Bolingbrook High School, the Southwest Suburban Blue Conference, and class 8A, that anything he writes on this site is borderline delusional.

The fact that 5A East St. Louis (before petitioning up to 6A) generally dominates the 8A/7A Southwestern Conference, and 4A Rochester generally dominates the 6A Central State Eight Conference [not to mention beating St. Rita handily for the 2019 state championship], and that 6A Lake Forest finished second this year in the 8A/7A North Suburban Conference (losing to 8A Warren by four points for the championship) would make any rational person pause and question their underlying assumptions; but not someone of his ilk.

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team [That's right Cross Bones I said it, East St. Louis was a superb team, not just good!!!] , then one may easily conceive of the possibility that Cary-Grove may be a better team than Lockport. Such a notion, however, cannot be allowed into the mind of the oracle Cross Bones. It would be sacrilegious.

Oh my!!!! shots fired!!!!

 

[epicbret]

It is tiresome reading posts from Cross Bones. He is rarely right on any topic, and yet comes across as if he believes himself to be some kind of oracle. There are only two constants. First, even when one of his posts is proven to be unequivocally incorrect, such as you have done here, he cannot bring himself to admit his error. He just moves on to his next erroneous post. Second, he is so devoted to Bolingbrook High School, the Southwest Suburban Blue Conference, and class 8A, that anything he writes on this site is borderline delusional.

The fact that 5A East St. Louis (before petitioning up to 6A) generally dominates the 8A/7A Southwestern Conference, and 4A Rochester generally dominates the 6A Central State Eight Conference [not to mention beating St. Rita handily for the 2019 state championship], and that 6A Lake Forest finished second this year in the 8A/7A North Suburban Conference (losing to 8A Warren by four points for the championship) would make any rational person pause and question their underlying assumptions; but not someone of his ilk.

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team [That's right Cross Bones I said it, East St. Louis was a superb team, not just good!!!] , then one may easily conceive of the possibility that Cary-Grove may be a better team than Lockport. Such a notion, however, cannot be allowed into the mind of the oracle Cross Bones. It would be sacrilegious.

The Board:

 

[greatgig13]

After Corey said Lockport is better than CG because they’re much bigger on both sides of the ball, I lost interest in the discussion. ESL had no size apparently. Have a championship series or stop speculating.

 

[Cross Bones]

It is tiresome reading posts from Cross Bones. He is rarely right on any topic, and yet comes across as if he believes himself to be some kind of oracle. There are only two constants. First, even when one of his posts is proven to be unequivocally incorrect, such as you have done here, he cannot bring himself to admit his error. He just moves on to his next erroneous post. Second, he is so devoted to Bolingbrook High School, the Southwest Suburban Blue Conference, and class 8A, that anything he writes on this site is borderline delusional.

The fact that 5A East St. Louis (before petitioning up to 6A) generally dominates the 8A/7A Southwestern Conference, and 4A Rochester generally dominates the 6A Central State Eight Conference [not to mention beating St. Rita handily for the 2019 state championship], and that 6A Lake Forest finished second this year in the 8A/7A North Suburban Conference (losing to 8A Warren by four points for the championship) would make any rational person pause and question their underlying assumptions; but not someone of his ilk.

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team [That's right Cross Bones I said it, East St. Louis was a superb team, not just good!!!] , then one may easily conceive of the possibility that Cary-Grove may be a better team than Lockport. Such a notion, however, cannot be allowed into the mind of the oracle Cross Bones. It would be sacrilegious.

This may be the most delusional post of them all. You win the medal on this one.

 

[Cross Bones]

While I don’t disagree that @Cross Bones can be stubborn, the point of a run in the 8A playoffs can be a bit trickier than 6A is not lost on me.

Example: Cincinnati beat ND in the regular season. Does it mean they could beat Michigan and Georgia in the playoff? Maybe, but it sure as hell will be difficult and unlikely.

What got me is the making up of point differentials from thin air. That's when I knew the dealer only had half a deck.

 

[corey90]

After Corey said Lockport is better than CG because they’re much bigger on both sides of the ball, I lost interest in the discussion. ESL had no size apparently. Have a championship series or stop speculating.

Different teams. IMO LP matches up better against CG. I also believe LWE would of been a problem for CG. LWE is a tough out for anyone and they know how to defend the triple option or double wing as they have run that offense for years.

 

[corey90]

Maybe. Just Maybe. Illinois teams at the top of the pile are closer to "national" prowess than folks admit.

ESL might indeed be a "national" team, rightfully playing a "national" schedule. Others also might be capable, but don't pursue it.

Epic
I have been saying this for years. I feel the best Illinois teams can play with other states best. Some states might have more top teams than Illinois but make no mistake teams like MC, Loyola, LWE, ESL LP, CG, MS. JCA, Warren among others can hold their own and some may beat them.

 

[WBWarriorWatcher]

1. Lockport
2. Wheaton N

it starts getting messy after that. I want to see if CG/JCA could run over Warren or Lockport or Loyola. I have my doubts, but if they could I would reward that.

Agree Bones, just would flip one and two. Call me biased if you want, lol, but they impressed all the way through the toughest bracket in the tournament and their defense is under-rated on the board here.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Agree Bones, just would flip one and two. Call me biased if you want, lol, but they impressed all the way through the toughest bracket in the tournament and their defense is under-rated on the board here.

Agreed, and Lockport had the best defense I saw against the toughest competition. I am not taking anything away from CG. They beat a good ESL team. But Lockport's road through the playoffs, as is true in 8A, was the toughest of any of the teams that won their championships. I don't care what anybody says in an attempt to refute it either.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

The truth is, on average, there is only about a five point difference from one class to the next. This difference will also vary from year to year, conference to conference, and team to team. One may begin a conversation by generally saying class 8A is about 10 points better than class 6A. But after considering Lockport lost a game and was taken to overtime in another, whereas Cary-Grove allowed no team closer than 14 points all year until the championship game against a superb East St. Louis team.

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Oh my!!!! shots fired!!!!

And you love it!!!😂😂

 

[LTHSALUM76]

Different teams. IMO LP matches up better against CG. I also believe LWE would of been a problem for CG. LWE is a tough out for anyone and they know how to defend the triple option or double wing as they have run that offense for years.

Did you forget Loyola? Honestly, I thought Loyola was the best team Lockport played this year.

 

[USD24]

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

Well I'm glad that is settled. It only took 150 posts.

 

[greatgig13]

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

And with many saying ESL was best in state through the season, if they handily beat CG they are top consideration for #1. I guess because CG beats them by 1 that ESL isn’t as great as everyone thinks? I don’t think so. CG did what they had to and fighting for #1 overall ranking is fighting for an imaginary feel good trophy. Congrats to everyone.

 

[USD24]

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

That is your opinion and objective people clearly disagree. In reality, there are probably 4 teams that can legitimately make a claim to the #1 ranking. That is why people have been going back and forth for the last 5 days. In the end, it is all talk as there is no way to prove any of it without head to head games. Enjoy your championship. I know we are enjoying ours.

 

[Cross Bones]

Agree Bones, just would flip one and two. Call me biased if you want, lol, but they impressed all the way through the toughest bracket in the tournament and their defense is under-rated on the board here.

I'm not mad at that take at all. Before 7A and 8A were played I figured either WN, LP, or MS would be #1 because LP/MS would be settled on the field and WN's resume was easily comparable (should they win) especially since they handled BR and I considered that they may do the same with Rita. If Rita won they wouldn't have the type of wins to overtake LP or MS.

I think what a lot of these other guys are getting mad about is they think I am predicting who would win if they played and I'm not. You would think the C-G/EStL game would show them they aren't able to eyeball teams as well as they think they can. LP and WN won the most games against teams who were capable of beating them.

If C-G or JCA were to play LP or WN I have no doubt the games would be competitive.

 

[atrain97]

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

Who did CG's wins come against, 4 teams that made the quarter finals, 3 in 6A, and 1 in 7A, and then beat handily, a team in the semis, Lake Forest, that held their own against a top ten 8A program, Warren, and never gave up more than 18 points all year, except the game against Carmel, when half their starters were out with Covid.
You want to talk about ifs and buts with LP, if Hissong doesn''t go down with his knee in the 4th quarter, CG wins by 8-9 points. But that didn't happen, just like LP didn't beat LWE.

 

[Alexander32]

Who beat Lockport? LWE...a team that went to the quarter final game and lost on the road to Loyola 3-0. And in the LWE, Lockport game, the Porters starting QB didn't play QB. He only punted. So, it's reasonable to say if he played, the Porters chance of winning that game go way up. Lockport lost to LWE 12-10 and the back up QB threw an interception into the LWE end zone late in that game. But, it was a loss

Lockport beat MS 24-6 in the championship game and that game wasn't as close as the score indicated. No disrespect to MS. They were in if for quite a while before the Porter defense put the clamps on. MS sure as hell weren't rinky dinks.

If I am correct CG won their championship game by a single point. Correct? You talk about the point spread CG enjoyed all year. Who did it come against?

Lockport is #1 and anyone who is being objective can't disagree. The End.

Your post is purportedly addressing my post in which I assert there is "about" a five point differential between class levels. An open-minded person might wonder what the basis is for such an assertion. A close-minded person would ignorantly claim the assertion was contrived out of thin air. The information I'm about to present is addressed only to the open-minded individuals.

Last year I did a small study of the 2019 season in an effort to obtain some sense of what the difference was between class levels. It was at that time merely an effort to satisfy my own curiosity. In order to control the variable related to team strength, I determined to use games only involving teams that made it to the semifinal round in 2019. In other words, as an example, I didn't think there was merit in comparing a 2-7 5A team with a 7-2 4A team.

There were nine games played during the 2019 regular season between teams that later reached the semifinal round in different classes. To my knowledge the following nine games represent the complete set of games matching the criteria set forth in the preceding sentence.

1A Moweaqua Central A&M defeated 2A Decatur St. Teresa 28-26
2A Sterling Newman Central Catholic defeated 3A Princeton 25-21
3A Williamsville defeated 1A Athens 27-12
4A Richmond-Burton defeated 3A Quincy Notre Dame 34-14
6A Chatham Glenwood defeated 5A Rochester 56-26
7A Rolling Meadows defeated 6A Deerfield 31-24
7A Mt. Carmel defeated 8A Marist 21-14
7A Nazareth defeated 8A Marist 39-29
7A Mt. Carmel defeated 8A Brother Rice 28-13

Although the game between Williamsville and Athens represented a difference of two class levels, it was treated as only a difference of one class level in my analysis.

Although the lower class levels won five of the games as compared to only four losses, the average (mean) point differential favored the larger classes by 3.78 points. The calculation follows:

Five wins by the smaller classes by 2+4+7+10+15=38 total points
Four wins by the larger classes by 15+20+30+7=72 total points
72 - 38 = 34 ; and 34 divided by 9 equals 3.78 points
So the average point differential between classes was 3.78 points

Not wanting to overstate the case in my December 1st post, I decided to move the number upward by an additional point and assert the difference was about five points. I was careful to use the word "about" and also acknowledged in my post that the number was likely to vary from year to year.

Hopefully it has been demonstrated to open-minded individuals that the number was not made up from thin air. With regard to close-minded individuals there is, of course, no hope.

 

[pjjp]

Hopefully it has been demonstrated to open-minded individuals that the number was not made up from thin air. With regard to close-minded individuals there is, of course, no hope.

Interesting analysis. I can sense your frustration with some individuals on this board. I think you are taking the right approach. Make your case and don't get bogged down in too much back and forth with people you perceive to be a waste of your time. I've tried to do that over the years (sometimes unsuccessfully). It makes for a more enjoyable Edgytim MB experience.

 

[Taylornew24]

Ignore the team. Look at CG, LP, WN, JCA path to the championship. Your answer becomes clear.

 

[USD24]

Ignore the team. Look at CG, LP, WN, JCA path to the championship. Your answer becomes clear.

Huh? Why would you ignore the team? The #1 team should be the best team. The mere fact that a certain team had a perceived more difficult path to the championship does not automatically make them the best team. Again, this is all subjuctive. We will never know how LP would have fared with WN's playoff path, just how we will never know CG would have fared with JCA's path. The answer is anything but clear, hence all the back and forth.