The thread I always like to look back on: Your prediction on your team.

[Cat Box]

Not saying you have to change everything, but you can adjust within your base system. Its silly not to adjust to special players. Didn't Naz put Julian Love all over the offense last year? Didn't GW put Brodner at WR last year occasionaly when they needed a big play? Pretty sure Lenti threw the ball 20+ times against GW last year becuase the QB could throw, and was hurt that game as well. If your really going to be a great coach in my eyes, you have to adjust.

I totally agree with your logic. Making changes to scheme based on talent makes sense to me. Reality is, however, some coaches just wont. JCA has a winning formula regardless of how special the QB is and they are going to stick with that formula.

Sometimes it just makes sense for the athlete to transfer into a system that will best compliment their skills and allow the college recruiters to see their talent on display. JCA was never going to run a 5 receiver spread for Maddie. He knew that.

 

[Cross Bones]

I totally agree with your logic. Making changes to scheme based on talent makes sense to me. Reality is, however, some coaches just wont. JCA has a winning formula regardless of how special the QB is and they are going to stick with that formula.

Sometimes it just makes sense for the athlete to transfer into a system that will best compliment their skills and allow the college recruiters to see their talent on display. JCA was never going to run a 5 receiver spread for Maddie. He knew that.

Why would he choose a school based on sports? And why wouldnt he go to Joliet Central?

 

[jwarigaku]

Bones,

Pretty sure his sister went to Neuqua. Figure that one out!

Why would he choose a school based on sports? And why wouldnt he go to Joliet Central?

 

[capnbillhitters]

It's another reason that the spread, in this day and age, is a better offence to run at the high school level. It will showcase all your atheletes, not just your running backs! Take your OL, it shows their ability to pass pro, zone block along with their ability to power block! Again my opinion.

I'm never going to understand why the spread is a "better" offense unless your only intent is to showcase your athletes. I watch these D-1 OTs lumber around after a play, walk up to the line with their hands on their hips and eventually assume the two-point position only to fall back into pass protection over and over and over. And I watch Hetlet confuse those OTs over and over and over by blitz attacking from every angle. Teams complete a few passes, maybe the QB scrambles for a run, but eventually, the field tightens up and there is no more room to move and those OL have to become run blockers.

Problem is, run blocking is not ideal when you your guys are gassed after a long drive where they never got down into a three point stance the entire time. Run blocking is something that creates momentum when it works and creates holes and a downhill mentality. To me, the line of scrimmage is where the game is won. So give me an O-line exploding out of a huddle and attacking the line of scrimmage in unison over guys wandering to the line only to hit a two point stance and pass block.

I know, I know, hijacking a thread, but that bird has flown. Something about watching MC or JCA or GW come out of that huddle looking for a fist fight that leads to long histories (GW at 10 years now but obviously not as long as the other two) of winning programs. Specifically to GW, they have had 2,500-3,000 yd rushing seasons for the last 4 years without a single O-lineman playing at the next level. With just about every WSS team running the spread, often with better "athletes" than GW, the point is made over and over and over.

And yes, I make this argument every year. And yes, guys get sick of my blathering about it. If any of you have seen the movie Tin Men, this is my Bonanza issue.

 

[MR. "T"]

I'm never going to understand why the spread is a "better" offense unless your only intent is to showcase your athletes. I watch these D-1 OTs lumber around after a play, walk up to the line with their hands on their hips and eventually assume the two-point position only to fall back into pass protection over and over and over. And I watch Hetlet confuse those OTs over and over and over by blitz attacking from every angle. Teams complete a few passes, maybe the QB scrambles for a run, but eventually, the field tightens up and there is no more room to move and those OL have to become run blockers.

Problem is, run blocking is not ideal when you your guys are gassed after a long drive where they never got down into a three point stance the entire time. Run blocking is something that creates momentum when it works and creates holes and a downhill mentality. To me, the line of scrimmage is where the game is won. So give me an O-line exploding out of a huddle and attacking the line of scrimmage in unison over guys wandering to the line only to hit a two point stance and pass block.

I know, I know, hijacking a thread, but that bird has flown. Something about watching MC or JCA or GW come out of that huddle looking for a fist fight that leads to long histories (GW at 10 years now but obviously not as long as the other two) of winning programs. Specifically to GW, they have had 2,500-3,000 yd rushing seasons for the last 4 years without a single O-lineman playing at the next level. With just about every WSS team running the spread, often with better "athletes" than GW, the point is made over and over and over.

And yes, I make this argument every year. And yes, guys get sick of my blathering about it. If any of you have seen the movie Tin Men, this is my Bonanza issue.

You have your opinion and I have mine! It's all good. I love high school football!

 

[stonedlizard]

I'm never going to understand why the spread is a "better" offense unless your only intent is to showcase your athletes. I watch these D-1 OTs lumber around after a play, walk up to the line with their hands on their hips and eventually assume the two-point position only to fall back into pass protection over and over and over. And I watch Hetlet confuse those OTs over and over and over by blitz attacking from every angle. Teams complete a few passes, maybe the QB scrambles for a run, but eventually, the field tightens up and there is no more room to move and those OL have to become run blockers.

Problem is, run blocking is not ideal when you your guys are gassed after a long drive where they never got down into a three point stance the entire time. Run blocking is something that creates momentum when it works and creates holes and a downhill mentality. To me, the line of scrimmage is where the game is won. So give me an O-line exploding out of a huddle and attacking the line of scrimmage in unison over guys wandering to the line only to hit a two point stance and pass block.

I know, I know, hijacking a thread, but that bird has flown. Something about watching MC or JCA or GW come out of that huddle looking for a fist fight that leads to long histories (GW at 10 years now but obviously not as long as the other two) of winning programs. Specifically to GW, they have had 2,500-3,000 yd rushing seasons for the last 4 years without a single O-lineman playing at the next level. With just about every WSS team running the spread, often with better "athletes" than GW, the point is made over and over and over.

And yes, I make this argument every year. And yes, guys get sick of my blathering about it. If any of you have seen the movie Tin Men, this is my Bonanza issue.

I love the attitude.

I will say though that I think what gets lost in the spread conversation is that most of the good teams, the state championship teams that run the spread, are still strong in the run game. May not be wing-t line 'em up and smash 'em running game, but the successful teams will still find the holes and exploit the defense where possible on the ground. At that point, the spread is less of a pure passing air show and more of a different approach to establish a ground game.

 

[Cross Bones]

I dont necessarily think any offense is inherently better than the next. It all depends on the talent at hand. I once had a roommate from Paxton, IL. Said to me one day back in 2009 as I watched the BB v LWE game on Comcast, "All you have to do is pass the ball because no one has more than 1 person who can defend a pass."

That statement put it all in perspective for me. I notified him that up here... There are schools who can defend more than one WR at a time. But it doesnt mean that wasnt his experience in Paxton.

Personally I love option offenses out of any formation... I Form, double wing, spread.

 

[illini14]

Bones,

Pretty sure his sister went to Neuqua. Figure that one out!

Alot of south Naperville kids at JCA. Malin Jones, Josh Ferguson, ......

 

[capnbillhitters]

I dont necessarily think any offense is inherently better than the next. It all depends on the talent at hand. I once had a roommate from Paxton, IL. Said to me one day back in 2009 as I watched the BB v LWE game on Comcast, "All you have to do is pass the ball because no one has more than 1 person who can defend a pass."

That statement put it all in perspective for me. I notified him that up here... There are schools who can defend more than one WR at a time. But it doesnt mean that wasnt his experience in Paxton.

Personally I love option offenses out of any formation... I Form, double wing, spread.

Agreed. I just particularly like a pounding game that wilts the opponent by the 4th quarter, but I see where the 7 on 7 like atmosphere of two teams running the spread can be fun. I just don't think the spread is definitively the "best" form of O for high school, if we are talking about measuring victories.

 

[MR. "T"]

Agreed. I just particularly like a pounding game that wilts the opponent by the 4th quarter, but I see where the 7 on 7 like atmosphere of two teams running the spread can be fun. I just don't think the spread is definitively the "best" form of O for high school, if we are talking about measuring victories.

Measuring victories, or state championships? I will take a state title any day with a team that went 5&4 to 9&0 team with no state title!

 

[capnbillhitters]

Measuring victories, or state championships? I will take a state title any day with a team that went 5&4 to 9&0 team with no state title!

specific to my example, I will take the 96-8 record and two state titles over last 8 years

 

[MR. "T"]

specific to my example, I will take the 96-8 record and two state titles over last 8 years

Love the state titles!

 

[jwarigaku]

Capn,

Why do people insist that the spread is exclusive to a passing attack? The spread arose from the wing offenses. Read Anything written by Tubby Raymond and/or Gus Malzhan.

specific to my example, I will take the 96-8 record and two state titles over last 8 years

 

[capnbillhitters]

Capn,

Why do people insist that the spread is exclusive to a passing attack? The spread arose from the wing offenses. Read Anything written by Tubby Raymond and/or Gus Malzhan.

My apologies if I portrayed it as only passing. Lees last year stacked up 8,000 yards rushing out of it for Lib. I am more focused on the line play and the no-huddle aspects of the style. The variety we usually see in WSS probably focuses more on pass because running against Hetlet's scheme rarely proves to be a good strategy (again, see Lees 2015). There is a knee jerk to say "take what the defense gives you" and generally Hetlet give the short hook routes or slants on the outside. As the debate on here suggests, that 10-14 yard out route takes a big boy throw. Doing that 20 times a game successfully is a rarity.

And when you get closer to the end zone it is no longer open.

I have only watched six years of GW games and films of others, but you have to have two very special runners in your QB/RB to maximize the running potential of the spread. Libertyville had that, but I think back to teams that only had one (LT or OPRF) and it was really easy to shut down the run. Easy...right. My point is that an elite defensive mind like Hetlet can generally limit a spread scheme unless the QB is truly special and is able to go over top even when the threat of the run is genuine.

My gripe is the standing around on the line of scrimmage looking back at coaches followed by passive line play. If you run a spread out of a huddle with a legitimate tandem of threats and your linemen in three point stances, I'm scared. See Lib '15

 

[Cross Bones]

I think JWar was on your side on this one.

Joliet Central vs Rich Central was two spread teams with a combined record of 1-17. You gotta have the horses as the most important part.

 

[goomsback]

First portion of schedule pretty rough

If nd ends up 4-5 consider me not surprised.

 

[Wild_Mustang]

After taking a closer look i predict 6-3. New qb will is a big addition.

Ya, that's a game changer for them. 6-3 or 5-4, nothing better, nothing worse than that.

 

[HillRock86]

I totally agree with your logic. Making changes to scheme based on talent makes sense to me. Reality is, however, some coaches just wont. JCA has a winning formula regardless of how special the QB is and they are going to stick with that formula.

Sometimes it just makes sense for the athlete to transfer into a system that will best compliment their skills and allow the college recruiters to see their talent on display. JCA was never going to run a 5 receiver spread for Maddie. He knew that.

Sometimes a coach sticks to that formula to the team's detriment. There is no question JCA is a running team. That being said, when you face teams like Montini and Nazareth in the playoffs on a consistent basis, you better change your look or else you get the results JCA has received since 2007. The Naz and Montini coaches figured out how to solve JCA's running attack, and JCA had no response. You don't have to get away from running the ball, but run it out of different formations. Use the route tree in your passing game. Try anything to throw your opponent off balance.

 

[jwarigaku]

HillRock,

Thank you for finding this eloquent way of saying that JCA's offense is systemically extinct...couldn't have said it better myself, and you were even gracious enough to back it up with the factual results. Now JCA fans don't misunderstand me here, I have tremendous respect for what JCA has accomplished over the years but the facts are 1) JCA is not built to play from behind and even the biggest lead at the Half can be in jeopardy by the time the 4th quarter finishes. And 2) the defense needs to learn how to defend the forward pass. Adaptation is key to survival in any life event, even football. I said it in previous posts and continue to stand by the fact that a Great JCA team is GREAT for the ESCC and Illinois football!

Sometimes a coach sticks to that formula to the team's detriment. There is no question JCA is a running team. That being said, when you face teams like Montini and Nazareth in the playoffs on a consistent basis, you better change your look or else you get the results JCA has received since 2007. The Naz and Montini coaches figured out how to solve JCA's running attack, and JCA had no response. You don't have to get away from running the ball, but run it out of different formations. Use the route tree in your passing game. Try anything to throw your opponent off balance.

 

[MR. "T"]

HillRock,

Thank you for finding this eloquent way of saying that JCA's offense is systemically extinct...couldn't have said it better myself, and you were even gracious enough to back it up with the factual results. Now JCA fans don't misunderstand me here, I have tremendous respect for what JCA has accomplished over the years but the facts are 1) JCA is not built to play from behind and even the biggest lead at the Half can be in jeopardy by the time the 4th quarter finishes. And 2) the defense needs to learn how to defend the forward pass. Adaptation is key to survival in any life event, even football. I said it in previous posts and continue to stand by the fact that a Great JCA team is GREAT for the ESCC and Illinois football!

Just think how good JCA could be if they could learn or would adapt? With the talent pool in the area and the disciplined program that they have! With a little adaptation instead of Montini winning all those titles, they would have shared at least half of them with JCA!

 

[mchsalumni]

With a little adaptation instead of Montini winning all those titles, they would have shared at least half of them with JCA!

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.

 

[MR. "T"]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.

Yep!

 

[McCaravan]

Losing Griffith hurts MC more then people think, especially against LA, BR and Montini...Caravan goes 7-2, maybe 6-3

 

[Simon "GHOST' Riley]

Simon,

That good receiver was by far the best player Francis had on the team. Played all over the field. We don't have a Qb that can throw the ball over 10 yards and only 32 players on varsity including sophomores. I think 2-7 is probable, with any injuries we could be 1-8 or 0-9. The coach is good and will get the most out of these kids.

Spartan,

Thanks for the update but I would be careful singling out individual players. You never know there may be relatives of players posting on this board.

 

[TPF523]

Fenwick has a really tough schedule, however it should be an exciting year for the Friars.

1- Phillips Tossup
2- Bowen Win
3- Montini Tossup
4- Leo Win
5- Loyola Loss
6- Marmion Win
7- Providence Tossup
8- St Francis Win
9- De La Salle Win

I can see anywhere from 8-1 to 5-4, before anyone gets carried away I would put Fenwick in the underdog category of all 3 tossups and I see them much closer to 5-4 than 8-1. With that being said I do think there is a resurgence this year at Fenwick and I expect a playoff appearance with a subsequent solid playoff run depending on pairings.

 

[jwarigaku]

TPF,

When I left Illinois did they go the way of Colorado and allow for recreational use of MJ?

Fenwick has a really tough schedule, however it should be an exciting year for the Friars.

1- Phillips Tossup
2- Bowen Win
3- Montini Tossup
4- Leo Win
5- Loyola Loss
6- Marmion Win
7- Providence Tossup
8- St Francis Win
9- De La Salle Win

I can see anywhere from 8-1 to 5-4, before anyone gets carried away I would put Fenwick in the underdog category of all 3 tossups and I see them much closer to 5-4 than 8-1. With that being said I do think there is a resurgence this year at Fenwick and I expect a playoff appearance with a subsequent solid playoff run depending on pairings.

 

[TPF523]

TPF,

When I left Illinois did they go the way of Colorado and allow for recreational use of MJ?

18 returning starters, stick to PA football.

 

[jwarigaku]

TPF,

19 if you count Hedzell your kicker. I guess we can revisit this in a few weeks.

18 returning starters, stick to PA football.

 

[pjjp]

18 returning starters, stick to PA football.

Good to see you posting about Fenwick and shedding the stigma of being an honorary member of the Insane Naz Posse. Good luck to the Friars this year.

 

[jwarigaku]

This guy PJJP reminds me of Woody from the first toy story...........

trophy envy!

Good to see you posting about Fenwick and shedding the stigma of being an honorary member of the Insane Naz Posse. Good luck to the Friars this year.

 

[TPF523]

This guy PJJP reminds me of Woody from the first toy story...........

trophy envy!

Are you aware of the trophies and history that Joliet Catholic has?

 

[pjjp]

Are you aware of the trophies and history that Joliet Catholic has?

Fenwick keeps things in proper perspective and does things right. Good luck to the Friars.

 

[JCHillmen]

Are you aware of the trophies and history that Joliet Catholic has?

LOL. Don't worry. Last year Naz had a coach take to a message board to call an entire system obsolete. A system that had defeated his team 5 weeks prior. And then had many of their supporters defend said post. There is clearly no long term or institutional memory.

Can't wait for this year to play out. Don't expect a ton from JC. But if JC sneaks out 5 wins and if Naz joins SHG and Montini in 6A, I can see JC being one of the 5-10 contenders in 5A. If Naz winds up 5A, they may as well give them the title.

 

[TPF523]

LOL. Don't worry. Last year Naz had a coach take to a message board to call an entire system obsolete. A system that had defeated his team 5 weeks prior. And then had many of their supporters defend said post. There is clearly no long term or institutional memory.

You guys need to get over that, that coach isn't even there anymore. Maybe that's why? I'm not claiming anything, I have no idea. He probably just got a promotion and took it but who knows. I don't remember "many" posters defending it. Either way it's one person's opinion and doesn't reflect what Naz parents and coaches that I have talked to think. All of them have nothing but respect for JCA and the last 3 games have been heavyweight battles. I know the kids respect each other, maybe the middle aged men on here could act the same way? Wishful thinking I'm sure.

 

[jwarigaku]

TPF,

Well aware of their storied history and respect everything about JCA...PJJP on the other hand, I have zero respect for or any of his antics. I wasn't saying JCA had Trophy envy but rather PJJP.

Are you aware of the trophies and history that Joliet Catholic has?

 

[pjjp]

You guys need to get over that, that coach isn't even there anymore. Maybe that's why? I'm not claiming anything, I have no idea.

Interesting question. Could be.

 

[epicbret]

LOL. Don't worry. Last year Naz had a coach take to a message board to call an entire system obsolete. A system that had defeated his team 5 weeks prior. And then had many of their supporters defend said post. There is clearly no long term or institutional memory.