Wait what!?!?!? I've been reading about the downfall of SF!
Lepche has left St Francis
- Thread starter BigGroff
- Start date
Francis has the enrollment and facilities to do very well.
They (administration) lack the will and right coach.
Cat,
Frogmen are special people. I agree with everything he said.
It's implied, but I'd add two items:
1) Bring a friend/team mate along on the journey.
2) Accept nothing less from those around you.
I realize SF has a mediocre long term history IRT its football program. I recognize that many believe I'm the lone wolf howling at the moon, when I suggest that the Spartans are a sleeping giant. I stand by my comments. Would take some time, with a ton of frustration, I'm sure. But the right man walks through the door and demands an absolute commitment to excellence, and that program will make the turn.
JL
Ghost,
Total test takers were around 175!! Not 235. Last year we had around 172 with 80 being males. The numbers are similar this year. The numbers for the past two years are down as Francis typically gets 200 new freshman. The problem has been when we get 200 only 80 are males. Puts the male sports at a huge disadvantage. The multiplier takes total school population, not total males.
St Francis is not in a good area for recruitment. St Francis is surrounded by good or great public school districts (Naperville schools, Glenbard South and West, Wheaton North and South, St Charles East and North). It is very difficult to get a lot of kids from the Wheaton and Glen Ellyn area....especially with the competition from Benet. Half to 60% the kids from the main private grade school in Wheaton (St Mike's) will either go to Benet or Wheaton North/South.
The only areas St Francis draws from in terms of weak districts is West Chicago and Lisle (Lisle is actually not too bad).
The border areas the Francis draw from are divided between Marmion, Aurora Christian, Montini, ACC,Benet, and Wheaton Academy. Lombard is hard to draw from with competition from Montini and Aurora is pretty locked down between Marmion, ACC, and Aurora Christian. Marmion gets a vast number of those Aurora kids.
St Charles is split between St Francis and Marmion. Marmion gets so many boys because they are in an area with great need for a Private school (East and West Aurora) and draw a good deal form Sugar Grove and as far south as Sandwich. With that kind of base Marmion is not nearly depended on contested areas like St Charles and West Chicago as St Francis is.
St Francis does not have a "home" area to draw from like Montini, Marmion, ACC. They are in constant battles with these schools for boys. What is the biggest sport to draw boys....Football. Why choose to play football at St Francis when you can play at Montini, Marmion, Benet, Glenbard West, Wheaton South, Wheaton North which all have historically more consistent success than St Francis.
Why go to St Francis if you are a boy in the Area
1) Better football at the Public Schools (Free) and at the surrounding Private schools.
2) Academics which are equal to the great Public schools (Free) in the area and a notch below Benet and slightly below Marmion
3) Equal or lesser boys athletics to what is offered at the surrounding public and private schools.
This is not to say boys will not go to St Francis. There are boys who will attend. It is just that the pool of potential Private school "Boys" is smaller due to the surrounding public school option and the pool is split up among many other private schools which all have a "home" turf to get boys.
Getting boys is the biggest struggle for St Francis and will continue to be so. Even with good coaches lilke Purnell and Fitzgerald, getting boys has been a struggle. St Franics is not even a thought to boys in Wheaton or Glen Ellyn which is right in St Franics back yard.
Does this mean that St Franics cannot be successful in football.....not at all. It will be a much bigger struggle than at most schools. Even Purnell had a tough time maintaining solid success beyond the 5-4 type season. Fizgerald could not duplicate his success in 2015 like he had in 2014. St Francis football has a hard time competing against Montini and Marmion on a consistent basis. All of this adds up to St Franics having a tough time establishing soild success year in and year out in Football.
St Franics is a great school...great academics and great people. However it is very much known as a "girls" school where Volleyball dominates. Francis just does not offer something "special" that is not offered at other public and private schools in the area. It is not that St Franics has nothing to offer....it have a lot to offer. It is just that it is not unique enough to draw boys from the area near the school on the levels you need for solid football success. It is not the school...it is the area around the school which is tough for St Francis
The only areas St Francis draws from in terms of weak districts is West Chicago and Lisle (Lisle is actually not too bad).
The border areas the Francis draw from are divided between Marmion, Aurora Christian, Montini, ACC,Benet, and Wheaton Academy. Lombard is hard to draw from with competition from Montini and Aurora is pretty locked down between Marmion, ACC, and Aurora Christian. Marmion gets a vast number of those Aurora kids.
St Charles is split between St Francis and Marmion. Marmion gets so many boys because they are in an area with great need for a Private school (East and West Aurora) and draw a good deal form Sugar Grove and as far south as Sandwich. With that kind of base Marmion is not nearly depended on contested areas like St Charles and West Chicago as St Francis is.
St Francis does not have a "home" area to draw from like Montini, Marmion, ACC. They are in constant battles with these schools for boys. What is the biggest sport to draw boys....Football. Why choose to play football at St Francis when you can play at Montini, Marmion, Benet, Glenbard West, Wheaton South, Wheaton North which all have historically more consistent success than St Francis.
Why go to St Francis if you are a boy in the Area
1) Better football at the Public Schools (Free) and at the surrounding Private schools.
2) Academics which are equal to the great Public schools (Free) in the area and a notch below Benet and slightly below Marmion
3) Equal or lesser boys athletics to what is offered at the surrounding public and private schools.
This is not to say boys will not go to St Francis. There are boys who will attend. It is just that the pool of potential Private school "Boys" is smaller due to the surrounding public school option and the pool is split up among many other private schools which all have a "home" turf to get boys.
Getting boys is the biggest struggle for St Francis and will continue to be so. Even with good coaches lilke Purnell and Fitzgerald, getting boys has been a struggle. St Franics is not even a thought to boys in Wheaton or Glen Ellyn which is right in St Franics back yard.
Does this mean that St Franics cannot be successful in football.....not at all. It will be a much bigger struggle than at most schools. Even Purnell had a tough time maintaining solid success beyond the 5-4 type season. Fizgerald could not duplicate his success in 2015 like he had in 2014. St Francis football has a hard time competing against Montini and Marmion on a consistent basis. All of this adds up to St Franics having a tough time establishing soild success year in and year out in Football.
St Franics is a great school...great academics and great people. However it is very much known as a "girls" school where Volleyball dominates. Francis just does not offer something "special" that is not offered at other public and private schools in the area. It is not that St Franics has nothing to offer....it have a lot to offer. It is just that it is not unique enough to draw boys from the area near the school on the levels you need for solid football success. It is not the school...it is the area around the school which is tough for St Francis
That's a poor excuse. They need to get out and out work the rest of the schools and they will come. That said I think there will be a pipeline to youth football soon.
Might be a poor excuse but is the reality that St Francis has faced for 20 years. The new coach will have to overcome that
Great post you pretty much covered all the issues they have had with getting football talent in the door.
St Mikes has produced some great football talent over the years and it seems like most of those kids graduate and go to the Wheaton public schools.
That's not totally true, SF has had plenty of Mike's kids that excelled at fball. They need more no doubt.
So how does Nazareth, Montini, Benet, Loyola do it ? They are surrounded by good public programs. The difference is I've seen representatives from each of those schools plus a lot more, INCLUDING public school coaches at many youth games in the area. I never see anyone from St. Francis.
Benet does it by providing an education that is second to none in the DuPage area. No one can touch Benet academically
Naz.....does not have the local competition that St Francis has in terms of Private schools in its area. Nax does not have to compete against 6 private schools within 10 miles of them like St Francis does.
Loyola is the only Private option in their immediate area....no other real competition form a private school point of view. They have to compete against great public schools but don't have to fight over the private school students that are left like St Francis does.
St Francis needs much more Wheaton kids. Three kids form Hubble Junior high even looked at St Francis. One one enrolled. Two from Edison Junior High. These are huge public schools with over 800 student a piece. In contrast Benet got 6 kids from Hubble and 6 from Edison. Marmion even gets kids out of these public schools. 40% of the kids from St Mikes do go to Benet...at least last year. My 2 neighbors have kids that are 8th graders at St Mikes and they never even though of St Francis....they are going to Wheaton South....both football players. The biggest kid in St mikes last year is playing football at South. St Francis has to do much better in Wheaton. Shoot...you see Benet and Montini all over Downers Grove and Lisle. St Francis is an after though in Wheaton and that has to change. St Franics got 2 kids from the massive Wheaton Ram football program.....2 total kids. the Lombard Falcons and Downers Grove Panthers send a lot of kids to Montini. Look at all the Tri-Cities and Bana football kids that go to Marmion.
St Francis is not doomed in any way.....that is not my point. But they have a very difficult time getting the athletes from the area. I don't think any Private school has the density of Private Schools in an area with tremendous public education as St Franics does. They are behind the eight ball more than most private schools. They cannot open the doors and expect boys to come. This seems to be their attitude the past many years.
Bottom line.....St Francis has a LOT of challenges getting boys and a new coach has to realize that.
Last edited:
I know Naz obviously has LT and Hinsdale as great public schools, but also have some other very poor public schools like Proviso West they pull from. So from a general enrollment standpoint, they have some good areas to draw from, and I think is lucky in that regards.
That said, from a football standpoint, Naz is an obvious template for how to turn around a football program, with them now drawing quite a few skilled athletes from those areas mentioned as competitors to St Francis. And 11-12 years ago Naz faced issues as a bottom feeder football program (with almost no historical playoff success to hang their hat on, let alone recent success). That said, not many Tim Rackis are walking around and available to breath new life into a program (not that there aren't many others who contributed, and hes had support from the top down).
I think the point is SF has to do a better job attracting that talent. They've proven they can do it but for multiple reasons they haven't sustained it.
All have good points. Montini and Nazareth get very creative with financial aid and both are football "programs." Francis has talent about every 4-5 years. They don't recruit athletes or students very well. Fitzgerald was very active, Purnell did none, Lepsche was pretty active. Benet is strong on all fronts. Montini, Nazareth, and Benet all have strong leadership and culture. That is the simple truth, strong culture and leadership are required for academic and athletic success. Kids want to belong to "programs." They want to wear a Montini or Naz Jersey, Francis not so much.
Has St. Francis thought of making moves on talent in the Gbard West, Bartlett and other U-46 areas? It is not far (relatively speaking), no more Driscoll to battle with, and St. Eds is not a powerhouse in either aspect. In the short term, a 65/35 female to male ratio might be a point to make to an eighth grade boy (like the early days of the FSU football program). Until JCA made its coaching change, the Plainfield/Romeo/Bbrook area might have also seemed like a source.
I think SF is in a great area for recruitment. Wheaton, Oak Brook, Naperville, Burr Ridge, Geneva, Batavia, etc...? Doesn't get much better. You need families that can afford a SF education, and the area provides that.
Loyola, Benet and PC are three examples of Catholic schools that do very well despite having excellent public schools nearby.
SF also has a good size as a smaller school alternative to the large 8A and 7A schools that are in the area.
i also know that Montini went through a "transitional period" 20 years ago and brought in a new President who changed the business plan. I know they work extremely hard in Lombard to keep the ship on a successful course, athletics is one of the oars in the water...maybe two of the oars. Francis appears to have had a change that de-empathizes athletics (my and former alumni observations). Not sure that sits well with parents who wants their kid to play at the next level. And we know there are Plenty of those parents out there.
You can have a great athletic program and get a great education!! How about Fenwick, Loyola and Benet. I think Francis need a transitional period as well.
godfthr,
I agree. I have said that when SF hires a good coach they do very well. In the last 30 years two sport programs have really dragged SF down as an option for boys and its football and basketball. Since I graduated in the mid 80s, the basketball program has gotten much better but football has not.
I don't agree with people here when they say that SF isn't doing enough to get kids or they lose kids to WWS or WN or they aren't in a good spot to get kids to enroll. I totally disagree. St. Michael school sends quite a few kids to SF. In the last 10 years SF lost out on a few real good players to WWS. The Vitale and OToole families both went to St. Michael and the O'Toole family sent two kids to SF before sending Reilly to WWS. The only reason Reilly went to WWS was because of football. Not sure on Vitale, but if SF had been a 5-4 team or better it could have made the family think twice about SF instead of WWS.
When SF had Bill Barz for ONE year, they went to the quarters. He left and SF went down the tubes. They hired Greg Purnell and he won a title in his second year. Purnell had winning records and 5 playoff appearances in seven years. After that, SF hired Fitzgerald and they went to the semis and he had a 5-4 team the next year. SF usually tests around 220 to about 223 kids a year. The year after they won 5A, the school tested over 270. After they went back to the playoffs they were testing 260, but last year and this year they tested right back down at 230.
What SF needs is a good coach who is willing TO STAY and build a program I think SF has turned out to be a stepping stone for some coaches and for some others it showed they can't coach.
If you have a kid who is good in soccer, volleyball, track, cross country or baseball, you are going to have a great experience if you are a boy or girl. Track and cross county for both boys and girls does fine.....volleyball does fin for boys and great for girls........baseball is fine and they took 4th a few years ago. But if you are looking for football, this is when you take a look at WN WWS or Benet. And Benet has really been a late comer because for two decades they were a disaster. Benet lost kids to Naperville or WWS when they were really bad.
I don't know where some get off saying the school is a mess. I don't think its true. If they fix football, they would be competitive.
Naz gets very few kids from Proviso districts these days. That's what happens when you charge 13.5 a year and your entrance exam becomes incredibly competitive. Fenwick is close to that area too, yet we get pretty much none of those kids. It's the sad truth but the schools in that area do not prepare them for the rigors of private school and obviously it's hard for families in that district to swing it financially. Naz is in a very tough area for recruiting. I would say significantly harder than SF. The public schools (LT, HC, RB) are all very highly ranked. Benet, Fenwick and Ignatius hit that area very hard and at the very least have a better academic reputation. There is plenty of overlap with Montini which has a much better athletic reputation as well as school like IC (who recruits harder than anyone). Plus Naz is right on the edge of the city where Rita, Carmel, Marist, Rice, Laurence patrol. Every kid is contested and by much better options (depending on what you're looking for) than Francis. The difference is Naz realized not too long ago you have to go out and work to get kids. If they didn't you'd still see them as a bottom of the barrel program in ESCC.
One very big candidate I have to imagine will get the gig. Grew up in Elmhurst, coaches (or coached, not sure in tense) a professional team and has a son playing in the big12 are the hints I'll offer.
He would be a great hire for them. Lots of connections with some youth programs in the area as well .
You're saying Westchester is not still a very big base for Naz students? I know they've pulled less and less from East and RB over the years, but I thought Proviso West, primarily Westchester, was still a big pool of students. They're able to turn away students every year, and while proactive recruiting is certainly part of that, I think they have a healthy natural base of students to pull in.
There are 9 private schools within 11 miles of Naz and 15 under 14 miles.
Naz to...
St. Joseph: 3 miles
Timothy Christian 7.1
IC: 7.8 miles
Walther Christian 8.7 miles
Montini 9.4 miles
Trinity 10.3 miles
Fenwick: 10.6 miles
Laurence 11 miles
Peace: 11 miles
Providence St. Mel 11.5 miles
Benet: 12 miles
Christ the King 12.2 miles
Chicago Hope Academy 12.4 miles
Cristo Rey 13.5 miles
Ignatius: 13.9 miles
Loyola to...
Regina Dominican: 1.6 miles
North Shore Country Day: 3 miles
Christian Heritage Academy: 3 miles
Notre Dame College Prep: 5.9 miles
Northridge Prep: 6.4 miles
Willows Academy 11.4 miles
St Viator 11.6 miles
DePaul Prep: 11.9 miles
St. Pat's: 12.3 miles
One of Loyola's most significant competitors for city students is Ignatius and they are 19 miles away. Loyola, Ignatius, Notre Dame, St. Pat's, DePaul Prep, and Regina all recruit students from the same north and northwest side city Catholic elementary schools.
I have known families from the northern suburbs who dropped their kid off at the local Metra station for the trip down to Ignatius. I know at least one kid from Glenview (Loyola's most productive recruiting ground) tested at Ignatius this past weekend.
ALL private schools have those exact same challenges. Some schools have learned to overcome them better than others.
Hey, you never know these days.
Didn't realize this conversation was about boys only. I was thinking that BigGroff included Rosary in his calculations of the six private schools within 10 miles of St. Francis.
But Rosary takes classes at/with Marmion. Its not the isolated all girls campus that Regina and willows are.
Westchester is similar to Lansing, has the slightly better public HS campus within the greater district, but has a decent # of relatively high earners and holdouts which attract the privates (for Lansing, lots of the 2 MCs).
Westchester is similar to Lansing, has the slightly better public HS campus within the greater district, but has a decent # of relatively high earners and holdouts which attract the privates (for Lansing, lots of the 2 MCs).
In Chicagoland traffic? 15 miles might as well be 55 miles unless you have excellent Metra or non stop bus mass transit option to and from school.
It's not about the precise mileage between schools. Rather, it's how their recruiting territories overlap each other.
A high school like St. Pat's on the northwest side of the city, for instance, will be recruiting some of the same students as Notre Dame, Loyola Academy, Fenwick, St. Ignatius, Guerin Prep, and DePaul Prep. Loyola would compete with all of those Catholic schools (except Fenwick) PLUS Carmel, Viator, Northridge Prep, Willows, Regina, and Woodlands.
For decades, kids who live near the CTA Red/Purple Line have taken one or two trains up to Linden in Wilmette and then a Pace Bus (Wilbus in my day) to Loyola. I've known kids who endured 90 minute one-way commutes to get to Loyola that way..
Last edited:
I've always thought of this program as a sleeping giant. They can compete in that area if they attack the right kind of kid/family. Glen Ellyn, Wheaton, Winfield, Naperville families. The north side of Glen Ellyn is an untapped market because these kids ALL go to West. Get a couple of them to defect, grab a couple of kids from the failing Wheaton programs, sprinkle in a Naperville family or two and you have a great class of kids. Have to get out there and work for kids. Naz is EVERYWHERE.
Ive said several times I live in lombard, nephews played Lombard Falcons and nieces cheered and there are literally tons of programs at every game. Montini, Naz, IC, Fenwick... never see a Francis coach. Go get kids and watch the wins go up!
Ive said several times I live in lombard, nephews played Lombard Falcons and nieces cheered and there are literally tons of programs at every game. Montini, Naz, IC, Fenwick... never see a Francis coach. Go get kids and watch the wins go up!
