E St. Louis @ Neuqua Valley

[LHSTigers94]

So if a team declines to play ESL they are "scared". Nonsense. Sometimes there are other factors at play. I know for a fact Chicago Phillips, another team that played in the classic, reached out and wanted to play ESL a year or two ago but was told that they were trying to set up an ILL vs MO format so they played Chaminaide. Now, I don't think ESL would be "scared" to play Phillips for one sec. I also know Phillips isn't scared to play anyone and has played a few teams over the past few years that are much "scarier" to play than ESL and are on another level than any of the top teams in the state of ILL. The Phillips coaches weren't running around saying ESL is scared to play them, but to some random folks on the internet they could have, and they could have actually had the "emails" to show they reached out and it was declined. You guys act like playing a tough opponent and possibly losing a football game is "scary". lol.

LWE by 21 all day. Nobody will say ESL isn't stocked with talent and is a tough team to be year in and year out for teams in Illinois. But you guys are delusional about how good that team is. Like ESL is some national power or something. Top teams from Texas, FLA, CA, GA, Ohio, Pennsylvania would beat ESL like they beat Collinsville. Or maybe I should say like North Gwinnett beat ESL when they went down to GA a while back/ Like I've seen Flyers fans post regularly, "There's levels to this" and while I love HS football in Illinois, lets stop pretending ESL or even LWE/Loyola etc are national powerhouses. It's demonstrably untrue.

To the poster that mentioned that Trinity put up 90 points this past week. I see you didn't mention who they played. Why is that? Could it be that they may as well have play St. Mary's School for the blind? (Bishop Dubourg/Hancock Co-op). This week they have a real tough test in the area powerhouse "Living Word Christian" high school.

Aside from the fact that they are a small school, Trinity is nowhere near as good as they were last year. The only team in their class that will challenge them will be the team they played in the state championship last year Ritter.

Ritter by 30 this year IMO.

Yes, Phillips reaches out and played in the Classic for week 2. What you fail to mentioned is week one was discussed but BOTH decided to play the out of State option. Phillips played an Ohio school and ESL played Detroit King. Bottom line is the game was discussed and neither stated that they didn’t want to play each other which is the difference.

Your other points are irrelevant simply because you have no clue which is okay. Trinity is in class three where CR is in class 2 this year with Lutheran North. Trinity will not play Cardinal Ritter this year.

As far as a hypothetical outcome to a game that won’t happen is irrelevant to me. For some it mean a lot and I understand that. The original point was we will never know because those two teams aren’t willing to play ESL. It is what it is.

As far as your opinion, I respect it.

 

[playboymixx]

Blatant lie.

The East coach knew exactly who Witherspoon was. His older brother Damone Witherspoone played for East all four years. His senior year was the former East coaches first year at East. My cousin played with those guys and "Little" Spoon was always around in the summer going to East's summer camps well before he was a Freshman.

I actually don't think (don't know for sure) that he was recruited by Sunkett. I always heard rumors that he was going to Althoff. Who knows what happened there.

Sunkett dang sure knew Lovett. Word is he was calling and texting him non stop until his mom finally caved in and let him transfer.

He did the same with Mookie Cooper over at Trinity, which PO'd the Trinity Head coach. You could easily follow that saga if you just followed the right folks on Twitter. I'll just leave it at that. That one didn't quite work out though. Right at the end of the "trade deadline" they just couldn't get it done.

Why not just become a college coach if you like recruiting so much?

Damn

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Okay, Mr. Belleville East, West, and Trinity. Being that you have the inside scoop on everything. Can you also share the names of the East St. Louis students who transferred into neighboring districts without an iota of a complaint from Sunkett??

In reference to Belleville schools specifically, Where is your “hardware?” Check the tradition pre-Sunkett even. East St. Louis has a legendary well-established football program in the State of Illinois against ALL odds!!! Even against the odds of conference member programs who don’t want for them to play-up.......... East St. Louis ducks no one. Star talent likes Star programs. Neither Belleville programs traditionally even make the playoffs, let alone make it out of round 1.

Stay on topic. I never sung the praises of any of the programs you mentioned. My cousin played at East fairly recently so now I'm "Mr. Belleville". I followed them closely those four years and saw your little comment about Spoon and knew it to be false and commented.

Straw man much? You beat the hell out of that straw man.

I stated facts and must have touched a nerve. Yes, Star talent likes to go where they can win high school football games. Kids are easily manipulated.

Kids transferring to a public school in a city they do not and have never lived in is against the IHSA rules. Kids driving from North STL, O'Fallon Illinois, Fairview Heights, Belleville, Alton, Granite City etc etc to go to school every day simply to play football is against IHSA rules. Coaches literally contacting kids, calling, texting, showing up at their houses/apartments and recruiting them is also against the IHSA rules. Those are facts. Is that not the case? If it isn't please let me know. I was under the impression that all of that was against the IHSA rules. It also reeks of blatant manipulation by adults to entice kids to attend a school that is as bad academically as it is successful in football. That's just my opinion though.

You guys used to at least pretend it wasn't going on and that the "city of champions" is just overfilling with talent year in and year out, but I guess when you are so blatant with it and nobody does a thing you don't even care now huh? The argument has pivoted to "well, we win a lot, and kids want to win, so they transfer in." At least there is honesty in that answer.

"Can you also share the names of the East St. Louis students who transferred into neighboring districts without an iota of a complaint from Sunkett??"

Who are you referencing? I dropped some names, some facts, go ahead man, you name them. Name a top player from ESL that transferred out. I can't think of one top recruit who has transferred out. What complaint can Sunkett levy if a parent literally moves to a new city. You do realize that's different than using a fake address and then commuting to and from ESL right? Not one coach in the area is actively getting parents to uproot their families and move to a new community. That just happens. Parents often move for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with high school football. There are coaches, though, begging said parents and their sons to "use your aunts address and come win some games at East Side". That you don't see any distinction there is crazy to me. But it is what it is.

As to your "Traditional Power" comment, I can go on for days about how even when ESL was running roughshod over everyone in the 70's and 80's, they were still a renegade program. The cities population was what, triple or quadruple what it is today and it's always been well known that if you were a good basketball player you went to Lincoln. If you were a great football player you went to ESL. Again, there is more to it than even that, but even then those teams were stacked with talent from around the area. Where did Chris Moore live again? Rhymes with Shmarview Blights right? Something like that. You prob don't even know about them days though. Been around for a looooooong time buddy, and ESL's football program, as long as I've been around, has never played with kids strictly FROM ESL. Against all odds? Nope. When you do everything you can to make sure your team is stacked with way more talent than any of your opponents I'd say the "Odds" are stacked in your favor.

Your perspective, it seems though, is that when people call that out as cheating they are just "haters" or "out to get you" and that in fact the deck is actually "stacked against you", or they Flyers I should say. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's all about perspective I guess. Funny thing though. Facts sometimes have a way of running counter to one's perspective.

Please explain how conference schools not allowing another member school to petition up stacking the odds against said member school? That doesn't even make sense. I can't wait to hear this one.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

First off I known spoons who family, Great grandfather grandfather all his uncles all die heart Flyer fans all wanted him to attend ESL in fact it was his grandfather that convinced his daughter to send him to East side. If you pm me we can meet with his grandfather to confirm. One last thing then I am done with this topic if Coach Sunkett is a good recruiter why is St. Louis still flooded with D-1. Shouldn’t they be playing for the Flyers??????

Sir, as more of a lurker and not an active poster, I actually like reading your posts. I don't dispute one thing you say here except that somehow Sunkett isn't a "good recruiter" because STL is still flooded with D1 prospects. Aside from the fact that D1 prospects like Brady Cook of Chaminaide aren't even realistic reacruiting "targets" for Sunkett for obvious reasons, the metropolitan area has what, three million people. I'm not saying every bit of talent is at ESL at all.

As for the Spoon insight, I didn't know any of that. Only knew the older one as teammate of my cousins and he was a good player at East.

 

[playboymixx]

Stay on topic. I never sung the praises of any of the programs you mentioned. My cousin played at East fairly recently so now I'm "Mr. Belleville". I followed them closely those four years and saw your little comment about Spoon and knew it to be false and commented.

Straw man much? You beat the hell out of that straw man.

I stated facts and must have touched a nerve. Yes, Star talent likes to go where they can win high school football games. Kids are easily manipulated.

Kids transferring to a public school in a city they do not and have never lived in is against the IHSA rules. Kids driving from North STL, O'Fallon Illinois, Fairview Heights, Belleville, Alton, Granite City etc etc to go to school every day simply to play football is against IHSA rules. Coaches literally contacting kids, calling, texting, showing up at their houses/apartments and recruiting them is also against the IHSA rules. Those are facts. Is that not the case? If it isn't please let me know. I was under the impression that all of that was against the IHSA rules. It also reeks of blatant manipulation by adults to entice kids to attend a school that is as bad academically as it is successful in football. That's just my opinion though.

You guys used to at least pretend it wasn't going on and that the "city of champions" is just overfilling with talent year in and year out, but I guess when you are so blatant with it and nobody does a thing you don't even care now huh? The argument has pivoted to "well, we win a lot, and kids want to win, so they transfer in." At least there is honesty in that answer.

"Can you also share the names of the East St. Louis students who transferred into neighboring districts without an iota of a complaint from Sunkett??"

Who are you referencing? I dropped some names, some facts, go ahead man, you name them. Name a top player from ESL that transferred out. I can't think of one top recruit who has transferred out. What complaint can Sunkett levy if a parent literally moves to a new city. You do realize that's different than using a fake address and then commuting to and from ESL right? Not one coach in the area is actively getting parents to uproot their families and move to a new community. That just happens. Parents often move for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with high school football. There are coaches, though, begging said parents and their sons to "use your aunts address and come win some games at East Side". That you don't see any distinction there is crazy to me. But it is what it is.

As to your "Traditional Power" comment, I can go on for days about how even when ESL was running roughshod over everyone in the 70's and 80's, they were still a renegade program. The cities population was what, triple or quadruple what it is today and it's always been well known that if you were a good basketball player you went to Lincoln. If you were a great football player you went to ESL. Again, there is more to it than even that, but even then those teams were stacked with talent from around the area. Where did Chris Moore live again? Rhymes with Shmarview Blights right? Something like that. You prob don't even know about them days though. Been around for a looooooong time buddy, and ESL's football program, as long as I've been around, has never played with kids strictly FROM ESL. Against all odds? Nope. When you do everything you can to make sure your team is stacked with way more talent than any of your opponents I'd say the "Odds" are stacked in your favor.

Your perspective, it seems though, is that when people call that out as cheating they are just "haters" or "out to get you" and that in fact the deck is actually "stacked against you", or they Flyers I should say. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's all about perspective I guess. Funny thing though. Facts sometimes have a way of running counter to one's perspective.

Please explain how conference schools not allowing another member school to petition up stacking the odds against said member school? That doesn't even make sense. I can't wait to hear this one.

Was it really like that in the 70's and 80's? I grew up in the 80's and have always been a fan of ESL sports, but I always heard nothing but positive things about Coach Shannon. It really wasn't until Coach Sunkett that I began to hear rumors about the recruiting and other things.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

H

Stay on topic. I never sung the praises of any of the programs you mentioned. My cousin played at East fairly recently so now I'm "Mr. Belleville". I followed them closely those four years and saw your little comment about Spoon and knew it to be false and commented.

Straw man much? You beat the hell out of that straw man.

I stated facts and must have touched a nerve. Yes, Star talent likes to go where they can win high school football games. Kids are easily manipulated.

Kids transferring to a public school in a city they do not and have never lived in is against the IHSA rules. Kids driving from North STL, O'Fallon Illinois, Fairview Heights, Belleville, Alton, Granite City etc etc to go to school every day simply to play football is against IHSA rules. Coaches literally contacting kids, calling, texting, showing up at their houses/apartments and recruiting them is also against the IHSA rules. Those are facts. Is that not the case? If it isn't please let me know. I was under the impression that all of that was against the IHSA rules. It also reeks of blatant manipulation by adults to entice kids to attend a school that is as bad academically as it is successful in football. That's just my opinion though.

You guys used to at least pretend it wasn't going on and that the "city of champions" is just overfilling with talent year in and year out, but I guess when you are so blatant with it and nobody does a thing you don't even care now huh? The argument has pivoted to "well, we win a lot, and kids want to win, so they transfer in." At least there is honesty in that answer.

"Can you also share the names of the East St. Louis students who transferred into neighboring districts without an iota of a complaint from Sunkett??"

Who are you referencing? I dropped some names, some facts, go ahead man, you name them. Name a top player from ESL that transferred out. I can't think of one top recruit who has transferred out. What complaint can Sunkett levy if a parent literally moves to a new city. You do realize that's different than using a fake address and then commuting to and from ESL right? Not one coach in the area is actively getting parents to uproot their families and move to a new community. That just happens. Parents often move for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with high school football. There are coaches, though, begging said parents and their sons to "use your aunts address and come win some games at East Side". That you don't see any distinction there is crazy to me. But it is what it is.

As to your "Traditional Power" comment, I can go on for days about how even when ESL was running roughshod over everyone in the 70's and 80's, they were still a renegade program. The cities population was what, triple or quadruple what it is today and it's always been well known that if you were a good basketball player you went to Lincoln. If you were a great football player you went to ESL. Again, there is more to it than even that, but even then those teams were stacked with talent from around the area. Where did Chris Moore live again? Rhymes with Shmarview Blights right? Something like that. You prob don't even know about them days though. Been around for a looooooong time buddy, and ESL's football program, as long as I've been around, has never played with kids strictly FROM ESL. Against all odds? Nope. When you do everything you can to make sure your team is stacked with way more talent than any of your opponents I'd say the "Odds" are stacked in your favor.

Your perspective, it seems though, is that when people call that out as cheating they are just "haters" or "out to get you" and that in fact the deck is actually "stacked against you", or they Flyers I should say. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's all about perspective I guess. Funny thing though. Facts sometimes have a way of running counter to one's perspective.

Please explain how conference schools not allowing another member school to petition up stacking the odds against said member school? That doesn't even make sense. I can't wait to hear this one.

Guy 2 types “strike a nerve” in his response to Guy 1 in an attempt to take a shot at Guy 1. Then goes into an entire diatribe exposing his entire anatomy.

Guy 2 also says “stay on topic.” Does a Belleville school even become an actual “topic” (headline) on this blog?

Guy 2 then insinuates that he’s been around for quite some time, overlooking the fact that Guy 1’s handle is TigerforFlyers, putting guy one in his 40s to 50s on average.

Go and share your thoughts with Dean Criddle, they may actually make it to print.

Meanwhile, E-Side Athletics will actually continue being a topic of discussion throughout the state.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Sir, as more of a lurker and not an active poster, I actually like reading your posts. I don't dispute one thing you say here except that somehow Sunkett isn't a "good recruiter" because STL is still flooded with D1 prospects. Aside from the fact that D1 prospects like Brady Cook of Chaminaide aren't even realistic reacruiting "targets" for Sunkett for obvious reasons, the metropolitan area has what, three million people. I'm not saying every bit of talent is at ESL at all.

As for the Spoon insight, I didn't know any of that. Only knew the older one as teammate of my cousins and he was a good player at East.

You in fact said one thing correctly, “you didn’t know any of that.” In your admitted revelation, just know there is a whole lot more of “that” than you can even begin to have a clue of.

Belleville and it’s trumpet , The BND, are not at all casual in its plethoras of negative articles related to the entire city of East St. Louis. It’s very intentional.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Il speak some facts in hopes of ending this madness. It is somewhat entertaining.

Spoon was already discussed and clarified. I said the Coach didn’t know who spoon was simply because that is what HE told us. My nephew and cousin was on East team as a junior and sophomore when spoon was a freshman. It was then I got the feeling that being a Head Coach was much more than he anticipated and was a little overwhelming.

Mookie Cooper started at SLU as a Freshman and was recruited to Trinity by Patterson to replace his 2000 yard rusher that he was losing to graduation. He only got to play one year with Patterson based on Illinois hiring him. At that point, his little league Coach was shopping him and he was actually told that ESL didn’t want that kind of attention with him transferring over. ESL was contacted again during the latest issue which let to him transferring to Pattonville. Tough situation for the kid and I hope it works out for him. He is a good kid from what I can tell but it’s always another side.

Lovett attended Granite City Coolidge middle school where he was dominating in Track. Everyone thought he would go to Granite City and team up with Edwards and finally put Granite City on the Map. Some how he ended up attending West as a Freshman instead of Granite City. With the speed of Edwards and Lovett, Defenses would have struggled to contain them.

Once he got to West, He was very vocal from day one of his dislike for West outside of Coach Pettus. Most of the kids called him E Side because he told anyone that listened that he wanted to go to ESL. He played little league in St Louis so no one knew of his football skills. His talent was track and field based on his speed. I am fairly confident that if Pettus would have stayed he would still be at West. I am also confident that West administration know all the facts listed which is why they signed the concurrence with no disputes.

I know it’s a better story if he was recruited by ESL but unfortunately that’s not the case.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Watched every snap of the Gwinnett game. You know it was streamed right?

What "all things being equal" nonsense are you talking about? I have no clue what you are talking about. Again, stay on topic.

ESL is not the only team travelling far and wide to face stiff competition. That's part of the delusional mentality that I'm talking about though.

And to act like ESL is some national power when they clearly and demonstrably are not, is also delusional.
We all have our favorite teams but take a step back and take those blue and orange tinted glasses off.

While ESL certainly boasts talented players, as a team/program they aren't even close to the top teams in the country. That's not a knock on ESL. I guess it's a knock on those that pretend they are. I don't knock them for aiming to be a national power (other than their methods of achieving said goal).
But let's look at the results here.
2018 Detroit King MI Loss 52-38
2018 Massillon OH Loss 46-40
2017 Evangel LS Loss 10-6
2014 St. Xavier OH Loss 35-20
2012 Whitehaven TN Loss 26-6
2011 North Gwinnett GA Loss 40-0
2010 Dillard FLA FLA Win 51-7 (Despite their history, this team was really bad that year, not even close to a "top" FLA team. 7-7 that year.)
2010 Cathedral IND Win 31-22
2009 Elder OH Loss 49-28
2009 Middletown OH Loss 27-16
2008 Wayne IN Loss 20-12
2008 St. Johns DC Win 54-13

St. Johns, Dillard and Cathedral were the three worst teams of that group.

None of those teams are really "National Powerhouses" anyway. Closest would be St. John's, but that's today, back in 08 they weren't even close.

I'm not counting the admittedly stiff competition against regional teams like
CBC MO Win
Rockhurst MO Loss, Win
Gardner Edgerton KS win
Montini IL Loss
Mount Carmel IL Loss, Loss

There is not one team from ILL ranked in the top 50 on Max Preps, I just stopped scrolling down.

Not one ILL team in the top 25 in the USA today Poll.

Those are just rankings and polls.
https://usatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/football/2019/3/

There isn't one team on this list here that wouldn't thump, and I mean thump any team from Illinois including your beloved Flyers.

I thinks it's cool that ESL travels and isn't "scared" (whatever that means) to play top competition. However I do think their willingness to do so and the results we see prove my point that ESL is not in the discussion of being a national powerhouse. Not even close. They are a team that is known for what they've done in Illinois. They have a reputation in the region. They have had Beckner and Thomas bring attention to where they are FROM, but come on, if you think East St. Louis can play with or even approache the level of top teams from CA, FLA, TX etc etc like St. Thomas Aquanis, Heritage, De Le Salle, St. Johns Bosco, North Shore, Lakeland, Katy, Marietta etc etc I don't know what to tell you other than you are delusional.

"You’re unqualified to speak about the results of E-Side traveling far-and-wide to face stiff competition in their non-conference games because they are the only ones doing it"

What does this even mean? I'm serious. What "qualification" are you talking about.

I was trying to come up with something funny in response but that statement is so convoluted and nonsensical it hurts my brain to even think try to address it.

I mean, you don't think ESL is the only high school team in the country that travels far and wide to face top competition do you? I mean, there is literally a team that cannot even participate in FLA's playoffs and they play nothing but THE top teams from coast to coast IMG Academy. Dozens of schools around the country not only travel coast to coast every year, but play other TOP teams in the country. None of them play teams from Illinois.

Face it. "There's levels to this" and ESL is a great High school football team. A great collection of talent from around the area. They are not even close to being a national power. Maybe you don't know much about football around the country. Maybe you think that 7 on 7 results at Alabama (not real football) summer camps somehow make ESL a national player. Not even close man.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Stay on topic. I never sung the praises of any of the programs you mentioned. My cousin played at East fairly recently so now I'm "Mr. Belleville". I followed them closely those four years and saw your little comment about Spoon and knew it to be false and commented.

Straw man much? You beat the hell out of that straw man.

I stated facts and must have touched a nerve. Yes, Star talent likes to go where they can win high school football games. Kids are easily manipulated.

Kids transferring to a public school in a city they do not and have never lived in is against the IHSA rules. Kids driving from North STL, O'Fallon Illinois, Fairview Heights, Belleville, Alton, Granite City etc etc to go to school every day simply to play football is against IHSA rules. Coaches literally contacting kids, calling, texting, showing up at their houses/apartments and recruiting them is also against the IHSA rules. Those are facts. Is that not the case? If it isn't please let me know. I was under the impression that all of that was against the IHSA rules. It also reeks of blatant manipulation by adults to entice kids to attend a school that is as bad academically as it is successful in football. That's just my opinion though.

You guys used to at least pretend it wasn't going on and that the "city of champions" is just overfilling with talent year in and year out, but I guess when you are so blatant with it and nobody does a thing you don't even care now huh? The argument has pivoted to "well, we win a lot, and kids want to win, so they transfer in." At least there is honesty in that answer.

"Can you also share the names of the East St. Louis students who transferred into neighboring districts without an iota of a complaint from Sunkett??"

Who are you referencing? I dropped some names, some facts, go ahead man, you name them. Name a top player from ESL that transferred out. I can't think of one top recruit who has transferred out. What complaint can Sunkett levy if a parent literally moves to a new city. You do realize that's different than using a fake address and then commuting to and from ESL right? Not one coach in the area is actively getting parents to uproot their families and move to a new community. That just happens. Parents often move for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with high school football. There are coaches, though, begging said parents and their sons to "use your aunts address and come win some games at East Side". That you don't see any distinction there is crazy to me. But it is what it is.

As to your "Traditional Power" comment, I can go on for days about how even when ESL was running roughshod over everyone in the 70's and 80's, they were still a renegade program. The cities population was what, triple or quadruple what it is today and it's always been well known that if you were a good basketball player you went to Lincoln. If you were a great football player you went to ESL. Again, there is more to it than even that, but even then those teams were stacked with talent from around the area. Where did Chris Moore live again? Rhymes with Shmarview Blights right? Something like that. You prob don't even know about them days though. Been around for a looooooong time buddy, and ESL's football program, as long as I've been around, has never played with kids strictly FROM ESL. Against all odds? Nope. When you do everything you can to make sure your team is stacked with way more talent than any of your opponents I'd say the "Odds" are stacked in your favor.

Your perspective, it seems though, is that when people call that out as cheating they are just "haters" or "out to get you" and that in fact the deck is actually "stacked against you", or they Flyers I should say. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's all about perspective I guess. Funny thing though. Facts sometimes have a way of running counter to one's perspective.

Please explain how conference schools not allowing another member school to petition up stacking the odds against said member school? That doesn't even make sense. I can't wait to hear this one.

Oh, also...... here is a home run in question for you, was your cousin recruited by Sunkett?? If so, please tell us all about it.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Your post reeks with “all things being equal” non-sense. Chicago Phillips? Really?? You’re unqualified to speak about the results of E-Side traveling far-and-wide to face stiff competition in their non-conference games because they are the only ones doing it. Did you actually see the Gwinnett game? I was there. We took that loss on the chin, again, against ALL odds. We go to their home turf knowing the odds and at times still prevail.

You in fact said one thing correctly, “you didn’t know any of that.” In your admitted revelation, just know there is a whole lot more of “that” than you can even begin to have a clue of.

Belleville and it’s trumpet , The BND, are not at all casual in its plethoras of negative articles related to the entire city of East St. Louis. It’s very intentional.

I didn't know that his Grandpa got talked his daughter to go to ESL. That's what I didn't know.

I did know the statement that the East coach didn't know who Spoon was is a blatant lie.

There are a lot of issues in the City of East St. Louis. Not every article is written by people "out to get you".

If Sunkett and Flyer fans don't like being asked about the numerous "new" additions to their team, or if he doesn't like when the BND mentions where the brand new five star recruit at DE played last year, because it ruins the image of a program developing all of this talent, then I don't know what to tell you guys. They aren't stating anything that isn't true. Why would they pretend that Sunkett isn't reloading and restocking with talented players (often seniors) from teams around the area and as far away as Rock Island Illinois? Nobody in the St. Louis area that follows high school football at all believes that nonsense. You guys know that it's obvious right? Maybe you don't. It's well known across the entire St. Louis area that ESL heavily recruits kids from all over the area and that upwards of a dozen kids a year are transferring in. You don't think people assume the whole squad is a bunch of home grown kids from ESL do you?

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Watched every snap of the Gwinnett game. You know it was streamed right?

What "all things being equal" nonsense are you talking about? I have no clue what you are talking about. Again, stay on topic.

ESL is not the only team travelling far and wide to face stiff competition. That's part of the delusional mentality that I'm talking about though.

And to act like ESL is some national power when they clearly and demonstrably are not, is also delusional.
We all have our favorite teams but take a step back and take those blue and orange tinted glasses off.

While ESL certainly boasts talented players, as a team/program they aren't even close to the top teams in the country. That's not a knock on ESL. I guess it's a knock on those that pretend they are. I don't knock them for aiming to be a national power (other than their methods of achieving said goal).
But let's look at the results here.
2018 Detroit King MI Loss 52-38
2018 Massillon OH Loss 46-40
2017 Evangel LS Loss 10-6
2014 St. Xavier OH Loss 35-20
2012 Whitehaven TN Loss 26-6
2011 North Gwinnett GA Loss 40-0
2010 Dillard FLA FLA Win 51-7 (Despite their history, this team was really bad that year, not even close to a "top" FLA team. 7-7 that year.)
2010 Cathedral IND Win 31-22
2009 Elder OH Loss 49-28
2009 Middletown OH Loss 27-16
2008 Wayne IN Loss 20-12
2008 St. Johns DC Win 54-13

St. Johns, Dillard and Cathedral were the three worst teams of that group.

None of those teams are really "National Powerhouses" anyway. Closest would be St. John's, but that's today, back in 08 they weren't even close.

I'm not counting the admittedly stiff competition against regional teams like
CBC MO Win
Rockhurst MO Loss, Win
Gardner Edgerton KS win
Montini IL Loss
Mount Carmel IL Loss, Loss

There is not one team from ILL ranked in the top 50 on Max Preps, I just stopped scrolling down.

Not one ILL team in the top 25 in the USA today Poll.

Those are just rankings and polls.
https://usatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/football/2019/3/

There isn't one team on this list here that wouldn't thump, and I mean thump any team from Illinois including your beloved Flyers.

I thinks it's cool that ESL travels and isn't "scared" (whatever that means) to play top competition. However I do think their willingness to do so and the results we see prove my point that ESL is not in the discussion of being a national powerhouse. Not even close. They are a team that is known for what they've done in Illinois. They have a reputation in the region. They have had Beckner and Thomas bring attention to where they are FROM, but come on, if you think East St. Louis can play with or even approache the level of top teams from CA, FLA, TX etc etc like St. Thomas Aquanis, Heritage, De Le Salle, St. Johns Bosco, North Shore, Lakeland, Katy, Marietta etc etc I don't know what to tell you other than you are delusional.

"You’re unqualified to speak about the results of E-Side traveling far-and-wide to face stiff competition in their non-conference games because they are the only ones doing it"

What does this even mean? I'm serious. What "qualification" are you talking about.

I was trying to come up with something funny in response but that statement is so convoluted and nonsensical it hurts my brain to even think try to address it.

I mean, you don't think ESL is the only high school team in the country that travels far and wide to face top competition do you? I mean, there is literally a team that cannot even participate in FLA's playoffs and they play nothing but THE top teams from coast to coast IMG Academy. Dozens of schools around the country not only travel coast to coast every year, but play other TOP teams in the country. None of them play teams from Illinois.

Face it. "There's levels to this" and ESL is a great High school football team. A great collection of talent from around the area. They are not even close to being a national power. Maybe you don't know much about football around the country. Maybe you think that 7 on 7 results at Alabama (not real football) summer camps somehow make ESL a national player. Not even close man.

Again, you make my point oh so well. I have never streamed a Belleville game. Why did you spend your precious time watching ESL play? Oh, that’s right, because we are relevant.

Mostly all if not every school that you mentioned “nationally” is a prep/catholic school who recruits nationwide.

Why all the national talk anyway???? Stay on topic, my friend. Oh, by the way, East St. Louis does have at least one “National” title on its belt since you are so driven to speak on national competition.

 

[LHSTigers94]

This is dumb and I played a role in it. I apologize for my part. Hopefully we can move on. It was a great game for the individuals who were involved. The atmosphere was electric! Good luck the rest of the way.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

I didn't know that his Grandpa got talked his daughter to go to ESL. That's what I didn't know.

I did know the statement that the East coach didn't know who Spoon was is a blatant lie.

There are a lot of issues in the City of East St. Louis. Not every article is written by people "out to get you".

If Sunkett and Flyer fans don't like being asked about the numerous "new" additions to their team, or if he doesn't like when the BND mentions where the brand new five star recruit at DE played last year, because it ruins the image of a program developing all of this talent, then I don't know what to tell you guys. They aren't stating anything that isn't true. Why would they pretend that Sunkett isn't reloading and restocking with talented players (often seniors) from teams around the area and as far away as Rock Island Illinois? Nobody in the St. Louis area that follows high school football at all believes that nonsense. You guys know that it's obvious right? Maybe you don't. It's well known across the entire St. Louis area that ESL heavily recruits kids from all over the area and that upwards of a dozen kids a year are transferring in. You don't think people assume the whole squad is a bunch of home grown kids from ESL do you?

You my friend are delusional.......

Rock Island? Hahaha

Stay in your lane, man!!!! His mother lived in Rock Island, his dad who is a Lincoln Tiger, also one of my close friends, that lives in East St. Louis, a real father wanted his son to finish high school with him. With enough convincing of his mom, his dad and their son got their wish.

Again, so much you don’t know.

“Impressionable” kids don’t transfer themselves. Parents transfer their kids back to their roots with coaches that care for them beyond their athleticism.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Was it really like that in the 70's and 80's? I grew up in the 80's and have always been a fan of ESL sports, but I always heard nothing but positive things about Coach Shannon. It really wasn't until Coach Sunkett that I began to hear rumors about the recruiting and other things.

100% it was. If you were worth anything as a football player ESL was the place to be. Lincoln is where the Basketball talent went. Of course that wasn't true across the board, there are neighborhood dynamics and family ties at play, but ESL was basically an open boundaries city with two big high schools.

I never knew Coach Shannon personally but from what I do know about him he was an old school coach. Very different than Sunkett.

They both want to help kids, which I respect, but IMO, their approaches are vastly different. Shannon Famously wouldn't allow a very talented kid who, if I remember correctly transferred in from ESL Lincoln, play QB unless he took his earring out. That kid ended up playing DE in the NFL for the Raiders.

You better believe that if Coach Shannon's nephew was arrested for committing an armed robbery, he would have dealt with that differently than making sure the kid never missed a down.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

100% it was. If you were worth anything as a football player ESL was the place to be. Lincoln is where the Basketball talent went. Of course that wasn't true across the board, there are neighborhood dynamics and family ties at play, but ESL was basically an open boundaries city with two big high schools.

I never knew Coach Shannon personally but from what I do know about him he was an old school coach. Very different than Sunkett.

They both want to help kids, which I respect, but IMO, their approaches are vastly different. Shannon Famously wouldn't allow a very talented kid who, if I remember correctly transferred in from ESL Lincoln, play QB unless he took his earring out. That kid ended up playing DE in the NFL for the Raiders.

You better believe that if Coach Shannon's nephew was arrested for committing an armed robbery, he would have dealt with that differently than making sure the kid never missed a down.

How was your cousin recruited??

 

[Cover1AllDay]

You my friend are delusional.......

Rock Island? Hahaha

Stay in your lane, man!!!! His mother lived in Rock Island, his dad who is a Lincoln Tiger, also one of my close friends, that lives in East St. Louis, who is a real father wanted his son to finish high school with him. With enough convincing of his mom, his dad and their son got their wish.

Again, so much you don’t know.

“Impressionable” kids don’t transfer themselves. Parents transfer their kids back to their roots with coaches that care for them beyond their athleticism.

Oh, you mean the coaches he knew for all of around what, 5 months before he graduated early and enrolled at SIUC?

He came to ESL with that offer in hand already too if I remember correctly. Quite playing. I've heard his Dad wanted him to play at ESL. Just like Dixon's Dad wanted him at ESL so he transferred in from West. Not sure about Jarrell Andersons Dad, did he want him in a place where he was nurtured too? LOL.

I see a pattern here though. Dixon with a pick 6 and Jarrell with a hell of a game in a West win over ESL and the next season they are both Flyers.

Lovett torched ESL for a few TD's last year and the this season he's ESL's best Rec.

Admittedly though, West and ESL have a lot of kids moving back and forth. They aren't too far from one another. We used to joke that they were ESL's B team.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

100% it was. If you were worth anything as a football player ESL was the place to be. Lincoln is where the Basketball talent went. Of course that wasn't true across the board, there are neighborhood dynamics and family ties at play, but ESL was basically an open boundaries city with two big high schools.

I never knew Coach Shannon personally but from what I do know about him he was an old school coach. Very different than Sunkett.

They both want to help kids, which I respect, but IMO, their approaches are vastly different. Shannon Famously wouldn't allow a very talented kid who, if I remember correctly transferred in from ESL Lincoln, play QB unless he took his earring out. That kid ended up playing DE in the NFL for the Raiders.

You better believe that if Coach Shannon's nephew was arrested for committing an armed robbery, he would have dealt with that differently than making sure the kid never missed a down.

Oh I see, you just hate Sunkett because he’s the current target. Were you singing Shannon’s praises during Shannon’s actual era, since you’ve been around so long?

Mr. Shifting Shadows, please keep streaming ESL and keeping our stats. We appreciate the attention, even from an obvious foe.

Oh yeah, how was your cousin recruited again?????

 

[playboymixx]

100% it was. If you were worth anything as a football player ESL was the place to be. Lincoln is where the Basketball talent went. Of course that wasn't true across the board, there are neighborhood dynamics and family ties at play, but ESL was basically an open boundaries city with two big high schools.

I never knew Coach Shannon personally but from what I do know about him he was an old school coach. Very different than Sunkett.

They both want to help kids, which I respect, but IMO, their approaches are vastly different. Shannon Famously wouldn't allow a very talented kid who, if I remember correctly transferred in from ESL Lincoln, play QB unless he took his earring out. That kid ended up playing DE in the NFL for the Raiders.

You better believe that if Coach Shannon's nephew was arrested for committing an armed robbery, he would have dealt with that differently than making sure the kid never missed a down.

Yeah, I knew about the earring situation. I still have a copy of "The Right Kind of Heroes" and remember that being in the book. I wouldn't think that anyone would have an issue with kids transferring back and forth between Lincoln and Eastside though. More so with kids transferring to Eastside from outside of the city, which I haven't really heard about being a problem until the Sunkett years. Speaking of Coach Shannon, I heard that he was in town recently and asked to speak to the Flyer football team, but was told no by Sunkett. Not sure how true that is though.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Oh, you mean the coaches he knew for all of around what, 5 months before he graduated early and enrolled at SIUC?

He came to ESL with that offer in hand already too if I remember correctly. Quite playing. I've heard his Dad wanted him to play at ESL. Just like Dixon's Dad wanted him at ESL so he transferred in from West. Not sure about Jarrell Andersons Dad, did he want him in a place where he was nurtured too? LOL.

I see a pattern here though. Dixon with a pick 6 and Jarrell with a hell of a game in a West win over ESL and the next season they are both Flyers.

Lovett torched ESL for a few TD's last year and the this season he's ESL's best Rec.

Admittedly though, West and ESL have a lot of kids moving back and forth. They aren't too far from one another. We used to joke that they were ESL's B team.

The coaches that his parents knew.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

How was your cousin recruited??

Was never recruited as far as I know. I'd be surprised if he was because he wasn't a top player at East either. That's my buddy though so I followed him and the teams at East when he was there.

Maybe the East coach didn't know who my cousin was?

He's doing just fine though. No football post HS for him.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Was never recruited as far as I know. I'd be surprised if he was because he wasn't a top player at East either. That's my buddy though so I followed him and the teams at East when he was there.

Maybe the East coach didn't know who my cousin was?

He's doing just fine though. No football post HS for him.

Oh, Witherspoon was a top player as a Sophomore?

Like Adoree Jackson, as a Freshman, never played a down of Varsity for Belleville East. Whose father, by the way is an ESL Flyer. If not for his mother’s family being from California, would have suited up as a Flyer.

Jeff Thomas was a 4 year starter at ESL. Why not Adoree as a Freshman at Belleville East? Hmmm......

Tell your coaches to become good coaches, to spot talent regardless of their class. Put the best guys on the field, and not the local politician’s son or nephew.

Im glad your cousin is doing fine, seriously.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Yeah, I knew about the earring situation. I still have a copy of "The Right Kind of Heroes" and remember that being in the book. I wouldn't think that anyone would have an issue with kids transferring back and forth between Lincoln and Eastside though. More so with kids transferring to Eastside from outside of the city, which I haven't really heard about being a problem until the Sunkett years. Speaking of Coach Shannon, I heard that he was in town recently and asked to speak to the Flyer football team, but was told no by Sunkett. Not sure how true that is though.

That never happened. Shannon and Sunkett has sat down at least 5 times that I am aware of. Also Shannon is at most of the home games. For some reason he stands at the fence instead of coming in.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Yeah, I knew about the earring situation. I still have a copy of "The Right Kind of Heroes" and remember that being in the book. I wouldn't think that anyone would have an issue with kids transferring back and forth between Lincoln and Eastside though. More so with kids transferring to Eastside from outside of the city, which I haven't really heard about being a problem until the Sunkett years. Speaking of Coach Shannon, I heard that he was in town recently and asked to speak to the Flyer football team, but was told no by Sunkett. Not sure how true that is though.

That's exactly where I got the story from. I almost cited the book but couldn't remember if that's where I heard it.

I've heard Sunkett doesn't like Shannon or maybe it's the other way around numerous times. Never heard anything more than that. So that's not surprising to me. Shannon was kind of run out of town, and I'm sure there are still folks that don't like him for various reasons.

Yea, transferring back and forth between Lincoln and ESL isn't that big of a deal, but the cities population was much larger back then. In all of my posts on this whole topic I've never said ESL didn't have a bunch of talented kids running around, and not just talented athletically. Now think of ESL when there were 75 or 80 thousand people living there. Not sure how far back you'd have to go, but I think the early 70's.

 

[LHSTigers94]

That's exactly where I got the story from. I almost cited the book but couldn't remember if that's where I heard it.

I've heard Sunkett doesn't like Shannon or maybe it's the other way around numerous times. Never heard anything more than that. So that's not surprising to me. Shannon was kind of run out of town, and I'm sure there are still folks that don't like him for various reasons.

Yea, transferring back and forth between Lincoln and ESL isn't that big of a deal, but the cities population was much larger back then. In all of my posts on this whole topic I've never said ESL didn't have a bunch of talented kids running around, and not just talented athletically. Now think of ESL when there were 75 or 80 thousand people living there. Not sure how far back you'd have to go, but I think the early 70's.

It was 80k in the mid 80’s

 

[Cover1AllDay]

That never happened. Shannon and Sunkett has sat down at least 5 times that I am aware of. Also Shannon is at most of the home games. For some reason he stands at the fence instead of coming in.

That's good to hear actually. I always respected Coach Shannon from afar. I'd hear stories, of course watched his teams and read "The right kind of Hero's". Made me sad to think he wouldn't be welcome around the program. I remember when he took over Alton in the late 90's and then was over at CBC for a bit after that. Saw him coach a few games at Alton.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Oh, Witherspoon was a top player as a Sophomore?

Like Adoree Jackson, who is very close to me, and as a Freshman, never played a down of Varsity for Belleville East. Whose father, by the way is an ESL Flyer.

I'm confused about your first question. Damone, his older brother was a very good player at East. He never got the looks Damonte is now though. He wasn't as big either. Very good instinctive player both at RB and LB. Damonte played his freshman year at East then transferred.

Adoree didn't play Freshman Football at East? You sure about that? You may be right. I just remember talking to one of the coaches one time about him and him telling a story about putting Adoree back as a returner in practice and being stunned by how fast he was as a Freshman.

Adoree's Dad may be a Flyer, but he grew up in Belleville right? Went to Central I think. He went to East his Freshman year and then moved to CA. Played at Serra HS. I read an article about him a few years ago. I rooted for him at SC. Saw him with the 618 on his eye black a few times. The kid is electric!

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Oh, Witherspoon was a top player as a Sophomore?

I'm confused about your first question. Damone, his older brother was a very good player at East. He never got the looks Damonte is now though. He wasn't as big either. Very good instinctive player both at RB and LB. Damonte played his freshman year at East then transferred.

Adoree didn't play Freshman Football at East? You sure about that? You may be right. I just remember talking to one of the coaches one time about him and him telling a story about putting Adoree back as a returner in practice and being stunned by how fast he was as a Freshman.

Adoree's Dad may be a Flyer, but he grew up in Belleville right? Went to Central I think. I read an article about him a few years ago. I rooted for him at SC. Saw him with the 618 on his eye black a few times. The kid is electric!

Not to be facetious, but here you go again reading articles. I know all of these individuals closely, Adoree included. I’m talking Varsity football.

My point regarding Demonte is that what would have driven Sunkett to recruit him after his Freshman season at East given your notion that he only recruits top talent from other schools.

Could it just be that parents desire and are determined to put their kids in the best situations for their Athletic futures? That they may actually seek Sunkett for that purpose?

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Oh, Witherspoon was a top player as a Sophomore?

Like Adoree Jackson, as a Freshman, never played a down of Varsity for Belleville East. Whose father, by the way is an ESL Flyer. If not for his mother’s family being from California, would have suited up as a Flyer.

Jeff Thomas was a 4 year starter at ESL. Why not Adoree as a Freshman at Belleville East? Hmmm......

Tell your coaches to become good coaches, to spot talent regardless of their class. Put the best guys on the field, and not the local politician’s son or nephew.

Im glad your cousin is doing fine, seriously.

Not my coaches. My coaches been out of the game for a looooong time. They didn't play freshman either though. Old school mentality. I'm sure if a Jeff Thomas came along they may have had to reconsider though. lol.

I'm interested to know who your referencing? Local Politicians son or nephew?
Can't think of who that would be. I remember Senator Clayborne's son, but he was at West and played BBall, not football.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Not my coaches. My coaches been out of the game for a looooong time. They didn't play freshman either though. Old school mentality. I'm sure if a Jeff Thomas came along they may have had to reconsider though. lol.

I'm interested to know who your referencing? Local Politicians son or nephew?
Can't think of who that would be. I remember Senator Clayborne's son, but he was at West and played BBall, not football.

Give me the history on all the trigger-men at all Belleville schools. Up until the last few years at Belleville East, what did they all have in common?

 

[Cover1AllDay]

I admitted from the get go that I didn't know if he (Spoon) was recruited by Sunkett or not. In fact I heard before he ever stepped foot on campus at East that he was going to Althoff with some guys he played youth ball with in O'Fallon. I then heard he was leaving to go to Althoff after his freshman year. Spoon played Varsity as a Freshman at East though I remember that. He also was injured and missed significant time. His brother filled me in on that. Also, I remember that Spoon wasn't even playing RB at first when he transferred to ESL he was playing safety. Then Jarrell Anderson got hurt on the first play of the year. Spoon got hurt his Soph year too.

I'm not going to get back into this whole deal, but I know for a fact Sunkett's made phone calls and texted some of the kids we've talked about. His daughter went to East, and so did his son.

As for the Adoree stuff. Yea I don't know Adoree. Didn't follow East when he would have been there and if he didn't play a down of Varsity Football I wouldn't have anyway. Was I wrong though? He went to Central, grew up in Belleville. Played youth ball in Belleville, went to East as a Freshman. Was an unreal track athlete even as a Freshman.He moved to CA to live with his sister. His mom got sick (cancer I think). He helped Serra to win a State Championship. He started as a true freshman and even got reps at Rec at SC. I remember taunting my friends who like ND when he was out there making plays against them. Did so when Jeff Thomas did the same.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Not to be facetious, but here you go again reading articles. I know all of these individuals closely, Adoree included. I’m talking Varsity football.

My point regarding Demonte is that what would have driven Sunkett to recruit him after his Freshman season at East given your notion that he only recruits top talent from other schools.

Could it just be that parents desire and are determined to put their kids in the best situations for their Athletic futures? That they may actually seek Sunkett for that purpose?

Give me the history on all the trigger-men at all Belleville schools. Up until the last few years at Belleville East, what did they all have in common?

Ah I see. I don't agree that, for every kid, transferring to ESL is the best situation for their athletic future. The environment down there can get kids caught up in situations that can actually be way worse for their athletic futures.

You talking about the coaches being white? Why does that matter? Beckner played for white and black coaches at Mizzou and plays for white and black coaches For Tampa. I've seen a few ESL kids cheesing with Nick Saban and I bet they'd love to play for him if he was green or purple. You should steer clear of that nonsense. If it's true that parents are transferring their kids to ESL so they can play for black coaches instead of white coaches, something I've literally never heard around here (not saying it isn't true) then they are sending their kids the wrong message and are setting them up to have issues as adults in my opinion. If they have real race issues with these coaches, something again, I haven't heard, then so be it, but I'm not sure that's the case.

I think winning football games, the promise of a scholarship, the perks that Nike has allowed them to provide for free to the kids, cleats, gloves etc etc, winning games, and not having to worry about ever being ineligible for pesky things like poor grades, or being charged with committing armed robbery or assault etc etc are far bigger draws than the color of the coach. Wasn't it you that just said Lovett loved Pettus? He is a tall white dude with a southern drawl. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

I admitted from the get go that I didn't know if he (Spoon) was recruited by Sunkett or not. In fact I heard before he ever stepped foot on campus at East that he was going to Althoff with some guys he played youth ball with in O'Fallon. I then heard he was leaving to go to Althoff after his freshman year. Spoon played Varsity as a Freshman at East though I remember that. He also was injured and missed significant time. His brother filled me in on that. Also, I remember that Spoon wasn't even playing RB at first when he transferred to ESL he was playing safety. Then Jarrell Anderson got hurt on the first play of the year. Spoon got hurt his Soph year too.

I'm not going to get back into this whole deal, but I know for a fact Sunkett's made phone calls and texted some of the kids we've talked about. His daughter went to East, and so did his son.

As for the Adoree stuff. Yea I don't know Adoree. Didn't follow East when he would have been there and if he didn't play a down of Varsity Football I wouldn't have anyway. Was I wrong though? He went to Central, grew up in Belleville. Played youth ball in Belleville, went to East as a Freshman. Was an unreal track athlete even as a Freshman.He moved to CA to live with his sister. His mom got sick (cancer I think). He helped Serra to win a State Championship. He started as a true freshman and even got reps at Rec at SC. I remember taunting my friends who like ND when he was out there making plays against them. Did so when Jeff Thomas did the same.

Hopefully, if nothing else from this thread, you will come to realize that ESL bloodline runs deep and although it’s population has declined, with many of us relocating a bit, our hearts are still with our city.

We know what it is to be negatively targeted currently and historically as former players and current spectators just for being ourselves (black). Parents who’s kids while playing a roll in some of Belleville upsets against us, can’t stomach the unfair officiating in favor of their kids wearing Belleville uniforms against their own friend’s and family’s kids. Later determining because of their convictions to not play a roll in the intentional demise of their city.

As you inferred, the talk was that Spoon was going to attend Althoff or O’Fallon. Did you have a problem with that talk? If so, were you vocal as you have been on this post?

Parents should have a right to send their children to wherever they think is the best place for their future, regardless of IHSA “rules”

If IHSA were all about equity, Catholic/private schools offering scholarships to kids wouldn’t be allowed to compete with public schools in the playoffs.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Ah I see. I don't agree that, for every kid, transferring to ESL is the best situation for their athletic future. The environment down there can get kids caught up in situations that can actually be way worse for their athletic futures.

You talking about the coaches being white? Why does that matter? Beckner played for white and black coaches at Mizzou and plays for white and black coaches For Tampa. I've seen a few ESL kids cheesing with Nick Saban and I bet they'd love to play for him if he was green or purple. You should steer clear of that nonsense. If it's true that parents are transferring their kids to ESL so they can play for black coaches instead of white coaches, something I've literally never heard around here (not saying it isn't true) then they are sending their kids the wrong message and are setting them up to have issues as adults in my opinion. If they have real race issues with these coaches, something again, I haven't heard, then so be it, but I'm not sure that's the case.

I think winning football games, the promise of a scholarship, the perks that Nike has allowed them to provide for free to the kids, cleats, gloves etc etc, winning games, and not having to worry about ever being ineligible for pesky things like poor grades, or being charged with committing armed robbery or assault etc etc are far bigger draws than the color of the coach. Wasn't it you that just said Lovett loved Pettus? He is a tall white dude with a southern drawl. We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Again, you are off-base. Pity. By trigger-man, I was referring to quarterbacks........

Please stop with all of the negative rhetoric that you know nothing about.

You are so comfortable in your unsubstantiated arrogance. Geesh!!!!! Do you know any of these kids and parents?

I know all of them!

Have you ever walked the halls of an East St. Louis School to know what all goes on down there or are you again dealing with hearsay?

My son attended Belleville East, graduated in 18. Played for Stephens. You just said it, Sunkett’s own son attended Belleville East. I have a diverse understanding of what’s going on.

My nephew, played for Edwardsville. You know the one who’s at Notre Dame now? Yeah Mr. Kendall. We never made him transfer to E-Side.

You and the MANY people just like you should just stop talking about stuff you know nothing about.

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Oh I see, you just hate Sunkett because he’s the current target. Were you singing Shannon’s praises during Shannon’s actual era, since you’ve been around so long?

Mr. Shifting Shadows, please keep streaming ESL and keeping our stats. We appreciate the attention, even from an obvious foe.

Oh yeah, how was your cousin recruited again?????

Must be getting too late/early for you. Your reading comprehension skills have waned.

My cousin was not recruited. By ESL or any college or University. Ever. Not sure why you keep asking that.

I've said nothing negative about Shannon as a coach. Always respected him. Always. I said "you better believe he'd handle XXXX situation differently." That was a compliment and a reference to something Sunkett literally did.

Someone at Trinity had a line, it was crossed and the one of the Top Rec's/Athletes in the country, with dozens of offers from all of the major schools was told to go. I've heard the same with some guys or a guy that was a 4 or 5 star recruit that was "let go". Folks over there have a line you just don't cross.

Any respect I had for Sunkett as a coach was gone when his nephew, whose Dad was an assistant coach on the team, committed armed robbery down the street from their house in Belleville and never missed a down. Replace Wray with Ivy from Cahokia. Replaced Molten with Pierson from Gateway tech. That's just the tip of the iceberg too and I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about but will never admit it on here. IMO he runs a dirty program. Recruiting is just one aspect. You know he isn't universally liked by staff members at ESL high school right? You know parents whose kids played for him also do not universally like him? Those folks fill others in on how he operates. You can't even make some of this stuff up. Remember when the new QB from up the hill who attended one semester and then graduated early got beat up for throwing the ball to much to the new rec who transferred in from STL and not to the kids who had been there? I do. I remember that. Heard about that one from....a very reliable source. To reference what you brought up in a different post. White, black, brown, purple, red, green, I'd never want my son to play in that type of environment.

By all means though, trivialize what i'm saying by reducing me to a hater. Or someone who's been jilted or that 's jealous of someone winning a bunch of high school football games. Something that in the grand scheme of things, in my life, in yours and in his, means very little. Sometimes a little perspective is needed to putt one's head out of the clouds.
That's the go to excuse for Flyer faithful when confronted with ugly truths though. It's just haters talking. They are sipping haterade.

Also, I didn't have a bad thing to say about Terry Hill when he was there either. Those were some down years, but he wasn't a terrible coach.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Must be getting too late/early for you. Your reading comprehension skills have waned.

My cousin was not recruited. By ESL or any college or University. Ever. Not sure why you keep asking that.

I've said nothing negative about Shannon as a coach. Always respected him. Always. I said "you better believe he'd handle XXXX situation differently." That was a compliment and a reference to something Sunkett literally did.

Someone at Trinity had a line, it was crossed and the one of the Top Rec's/Athletes in the country, with dozens of offers from all of the major schools was told to go. I've heard the same with some guys or a guy that was a 4 or 5 star recruit that was "let go". Folks over there have a line you just don't cross.

Any respect I had for Sunkett as a coach was gone when his nephew, whose Dad was an assistant coach on the team, committed armed robbery down the street from their house in Belleville and never missed a down. Replace Wray with Ivy from Cahokia. Replaced Molten with Pierson from Gateway tech. That's just the tip of the iceberg too and I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about but will never admit it on here. IMO he runs a dirty program. Recruiting is just one aspect. You know he isn't universally liked by staff members at ESL high school right? You know parents whose kids played for him also do not universally like him? Those folks fill others in on how he operates. You can't even make some of this stuff up. Remember when the new QB from up the hill who attended one semester and then graduated early got beat up for throwing the ball to much to the new rec who transferred in from STL and not to the kids who had been there? I do. I remember that. Heard about that one from....a very reliable source. To reference what you brought up in a different post. White, black, brown, purple, red, green, I'd never want my son to play in that type of environment.

By all means though, trivialize what i'm saying by reducing me to a hater. Or someone who's been jilted or that 's jealous of someone winning a bunch of high school football games. Something that in the grand scheme of things, in my life, in yours and in his, means very little. Sometimes a little perspective is needed to putt one's head out of the clouds.
That's the go to excuse for Flyer faithful when confronted with ugly truths though. It's just haters talking. They are sipping haterade.

Also, I didn't have a bad thing to say about Terry Hill when he was there either. Those were some down years, but he wasn't a terrible coach.

Again, you’re exposing yourself.

“Too Early Too late” I made that comment hours ago. Keep up with the pace. In fact, scroll down to the bottom for the latest.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Must be getting too late/early for you. Your reading comprehension skills have waned.

My cousin was not recruited. By ESL or any college or University. Ever. Not sure why you keep asking that.

I've said nothing negative about Shannon as a coach. Always respected him. Always. I said "you better believe he'd handle XXXX situation differently." That was a compliment and a reference to something Sunkett literally did.

Someone at Trinity had a line, it was crossed and the one of the Top Rec's/Athletes in the country, with dozens of offers from all of the major schools was told to go. I've heard the same with some guys or a guy that was a 4 or 5 star recruit that was "let go". Folks over there have a line you just don't cross.

Any respect I had for Sunkett as a coach was gone when his nephew, whose Dad was an assistant coach on the team, committed armed robbery down the street from their house in Belleville and never missed a down. Replace Wray with Ivy from Cahokia. Replaced Molten with Pierson from Gateway tech. That's just the tip of the iceberg too and I suspect you know exactly what I'm talking about but will never admit it on here. IMO he runs a dirty program. Recruiting is just one aspect. You know he isn't universally liked by staff members at ESL high school right? You know parents whose kids played for him also do not universally like him? Those folks fill others in on how he operates. You can't even make some of this stuff up. Remember when the new QB from up the hill who attended one semester and then graduated early got beat up for throwing the ball to much to the new rec who transferred in from STL and not to the kids who had been there? I do. I remember that. Heard about that one from....a very reliable source. To reference what you brought up in a different post. White, black, brown, purple, red, green, I'd never want my son to play in that type of environment.

By all means though, trivialize what i'm saying by reducing me to a hater. Or someone who's been jilted or that 's jealous of someone winning a bunch of high school football games. Something that in the grand scheme of things, in my life, in yours and in his, means very little. Sometimes a little perspective is needed to putt one's head out of the clouds.
That's the go to excuse for Flyer faithful when confronted with ugly truths though. It's just haters talking. They are sipping haterade.

Also, I didn't have a bad thing to say about Terry Hill when he was there either. Those were some down years, but he wasn't a terrible coach.

Another long post at 5 a.m. regarding high school football, but it doesn’t mean that much to you? Ha!!

What gives with you, bud?

Don’t hide behind a cloak. You sure seem to know a lot about ESL “High School Football” for someone in the grand scheme of his life means very little.

Why do you APPEAR to know and care so much about the happenings of lil ole (nationally laughed at) ESL when we in general don’t care to know much of anything about Belleville?

Why don’t I care to know about Belleville or any of the local schools? Because they aren’t on anyone’s and I do mean ANYONE’s radar!!!!

Consider yourself fortunate for my entertaining your dialogue thus far.

If I weren’t up working through the night, I wouldn’t have responded to any of this trivial rationale and reasoning.

When you are in the company of an East St. Louisan, you should first ask, CITY OF CHAMPIONS member, may I speak?

My response now:

Permission Not Granted! LOL. Now you’re right, my trying to help you in seriousness has waned!

 

[Cover1AllDay]

Another long post at 5 a.m. regarding high school football, but it doesn’t mean that much to you? Ha!!

What gives with you, bud?

Don’t hide behind a cloak. You sure seem to know a lot about ESL “High School Football” for someone in the grand scheme of his life means very little.

Why do you APPEAR to know and care so much about the happenings of lil ole (nationally laughed at) ESL when we in general don’t care to know much of anything about Belleville?

Why don’t I care to know about Belleville or any of the local schools? Because they aren’t on anyone’s and I do mean ANYONE’s radar!!!!

Consider yourself fortunate for my entertaining your dialogue thus far.

If I weren’t up working through the night, I wouldn’t have responded to any of this trivial rationale and reasoning.

When you are in the company of an East St. Louisan, you should first ask, CITY OF CHAMPIONS member, may I speak?

My response now:

Permission Not Granted! LOL. Now you’re right, my trying to help you in seriousness has waned!

Your working through the night too huh. Good. We'd have to by psychos up on a forum going back and forth like this.

I'm not from Belleville. I'm from St. Louis. I told you my cousin played at East. You then painted me as some native to Belleville. I lived in Mascoutah and O'Fallon for a bit when we moved back to the area when my Dad was stationed at Scott AFB as a kid. Not in high school though.

I played college ball. Have friends all over the state that have coached or continue to coach HS or at the college level. I love following football like all the other crazy folks on here that take time to post on a forum.

City of Champions Member?

Man oh man you guys hang your hat on some trivial stuff.

How about this. If you allow me to speak, oh great City of Champions member, then I'll give you some ideas on how to approach the issue of raising ESL High School students proficiency in both Reading and Math higher than 10 percent. 1 out of 10 students read or complete math problems at their grade level and your on here demanding others show you some kind of respect because you go out of your way to funnel kids into that school for the sole purpose of playing football and honoring the "bloodlines" that have played there in the past.

Now that, my friend, is a perverse way of looking at things.

 

[TigerforFlyers]

Haha, you’re right, I should have beat you to that predictable overused, overinflated punchline.

No more football talk, huh? Let’s talk education, huh? Okay. I’ll entertain your shift. Let’s talk academics and standardized tests, and such.

Where do you wanna start?

School me on how to help my city achieve highly honorable academia while on this Football Forum.

Do you really know, or is that just another attempt to take a jab?

Being from St. Louis, let’s talk SLP schools. Or did you attend a county school?

I’m a proud product of ESL public schools. No shame here.

 

[dhamp6]

Hey SWC football fans. Realize that the best recruiting(since that's the word you like to use) is WINNING. How about you guys realize that and make an effort to hire coaches that these kids think have a clue? Did you cry foul with all the transfers into Belleville West as they won back to back state championships?(I'll enjoy the silence) Wait Iknow, those kids just happened to transfer to West, because it was a great opportunity at a great school. Stop it with those one good one evil narratives. Look, I get it. You hate east St Louis. Not just the football team or the coach. Can't stand the fact that they are better than you at anything. By the way would somebody in the SWC please answer a media request and tell them why exactly no team is allowed to play up in class now? Because the entire state knows that only one team in your conference was doing that. Just say we wanted Belleville West to lose to someone other than ESL in the first round of the playoffs and everyone in the state will be happy with that response.