2016 DARK SIDE RANKING FINAL

[pjjp]

What it looks like to me is a game where the Hawks optimized their red zone forays and where their punter and punting special team kept Loyola pinned back in their end for most the the game. Six MS punts and zero return yds for LA? That's off the charts good. Only three red zone forays for LA even though they outgained MS on the ground and in the air? Wow. That, to me, is the whole ball game right there. To claim that this was a bad loss for the Ramblers is really stretching it given what these stats say.

pjjp, I don't mean to pick on you, but when I see all these posts about the MS RB slicing through LA's defense (even though he was outgained by 50 yds by the LA RB), how Loyola was badly outcoached, sloppy game, poorly played, bad loss, etc., this kind of talk simply does not add up with the stats and it takes away from the MS victory.

LA faced an opposing punter who was locked in. That, plus LA's inability to be productive on third down, looks to me like the keys of the game. That last one I put squarely on the MS defense and LA's inability to solve it. That doesn't make it a sloppy game, though.

I gotta find the game somewhere.

I hear what you are saying. And I was hesitant to criticize LA, because many see it as being disrespectful to MS. The Hawks made the plays to win the game. I thought they outplayed LA, when it counted in all phases. The big guy, Jarvis, really bolstered their run D. Couldn't be more impressed with him or the punter/kicker/do-everything linemen.

One thing I will expound upon is the punting stats that you quoted. The MS punter is excellent, but LA did not catch a few punts, which greatly flipped field position. Those were big plays. In fact, one of the punts (I believe it was for 65 yards pinning LA inside their 20). The score was tied. The next play, LA fumbles on the 17. Then, MS' QB runs it in on the next play for the go-ahead TD. This goes back to my expectations of LA. I would expect them to catch that punt. I'm not sure how many additional yards MS gained in field position, but it was significant. Not sure what you call not catching a punt....but it happened a few times, and it greatly impacted the game. I would expect LA to catch punts in those situations and was surprised that it happened more than once.

 

[MS4EVER]

"Saturday couldn't come soon enough". It came and went, and I would have paid big money to see your face when you found out.

I sincerely congratulate the LA boys on a great season, I am also waiting for the Declaration of the NIPL.

Since we were a 14-21 pt underdog, I believe there was at least a 24 pt swing. And since you "haven't watched", you will find that your team was out coached on an epic level when you watch. Stats sometimes tell the story, and sometimes they are highly misleading. What stats do not measure are bad decisions, momentum, and heart.

For us to beat a team of that size and athleticism, there had to be several factors at work in our favor all in the same game. The two biggest were our kids heart,and our coaching staff.

There WAS one thing I found very interesting tho..
At the end of game 1 this year when the boys were lining up to shake hands, Romano sprinted to the Front of the line to make sure our boys saw him first and was very animated throughout. Enough for people to notice and comment. People who didn't even know the history.

At the end of the game that mattered, he was somewhere in the middle of the pack... nowhere to be seen.

Just an observation.


In the end, the most important thing is that everyone on the field and off got home safely.

Actually he was first again to shake hands. I commend him after a tough loss for doing this.

 

[goomsback]

Sooooo Swag High beats the #4 & #5 DSR team. Who beat the tar out of the #6 & #10 team. Also beat the #7 team and they are not voted the #1 team? Come on! Gooms has us at #4? How do you go through the playoffs and beat 3 undefeated teams, Beast, Barrington and not get voted #1?

My problem is I can't ignore the 3 losses and the body of work LA had this year.

Question for Gooms,PJJP,Godfather and MCHS.

Who wins LA vs. Prairie Ridge?

After seeing LA get killed by speed galore in the state championship game, Samson Evans would run all over LA.

 

[MS4EVER]

My problem is I can't ignore the 3 losses and the body of work LA had this year.



After seeing LA get killed by speed galore in the state championship game, Samson Evans would run all over LA.

Forgive my PR ignorance but isn't Samson a one man band?

 

[PRokie]

No, you also intended it for a 17 or 18 year old kid when you were talking about Romano.



Feel good now? Feel like you've made your point by singling out a teenager with a petty and classless comment?

Way to go, big man.

What was classless!

1. Noticing? No
2. Bringing it up? Classless if it was embarrassing?
3. Or maybe just once one of the Angels in Wilmette get called out for being a jag?
Had that been my kid in the first game there would have been some serious discussions and an apology.

So if mentioning the young fella from Island Lake behaving poorly makes me a jag...

Guilty as charged.

My apologies if it personally offended you or anyone else. Oddly you probably think it was perfectly fine..

 

[PRokie]

Actually he was first again to shake hands. I commend him after a tough loss for doing this.

I Stand completely corrected!!!

Wrong on all levels was I to make that accusation as I missed him.

My apologies to him and anyone reading.

Thank you MS4 for correcting me. It's important to get the facts right.

 

[epicbret]

JCHILL:

No problem. As you full know, I seethe goodwill and was pleased to contribute, although I do not seek to re-claim my seat on this illustrious board.

I do, however, take exception to your characterization of me as a non-gangster. I submit my delicate features can be misleading, but my lacking a rugged Marlboro-Man exterior should not disqualify me from gripping some degree of aggressive nature.





While the two of you are engaged in your rainy-day fun at my expense, I would like to clarify my conservative credentials. I am neither an admirer of Mussolini nor did I despair with Castro's death. I did, however, find great pleasure in HRC's election defeat and consider seeing the old termagant's humiliation one of the more beautiful moments of 2016.

Illuminating on the issue you two broached, although I despise the burning of the flag, a symbol many have fought and died to protect, I find it falls under the Constitutional right to protest and should be protected, but will choose to keep better company than with those who do engage in the abhorrent act.

To strengthen my political positions, asked my opinion once on the Woodstock festival by some scuzzy, long-haired, tie-dyed-wearing piece of counter-cultural white trash who had described at sleep-inducing length the gathering as some hallmark in American history, I responded: "I would have nerve gassed the entire lot of them and made apologies later."

It's up to history to judge.

 

[ramblinman]

What was classless!

1. Noticing? No
2. Bringing it up? Classless if it was embarrassing?
3. Or maybe just once one of the Angels in Wilmette get called out for being a jag?
Had that been my kid in the first game there would have been some serious discussions and an apology.

So if mentioning the young fella from Island Lake behaving poorly makes me a jag...

Guilty as charged.

My apologies if it personally offended you or anyone else. Oddly you probably think it was perfectly fine..

If you think being animated and running to the front of the handshake line after making a game ending play to preserve a win is acting poorly, then you have a serious problem. I'd say most reasonable people would consider it good sportsmanship for a kid to want to be at the front of the handshake line...in victory AND defeat.

You are fast becoming the HHSTF of MS.

 

[mchsalumni]

At the end of the game that mattered, he was somewhere in the middle of the pack... nowhere to be seen.

Just an observation.

Awwww, the little man picking on high school kids. Stay classy.

 

[mchsalumni]

Forgive my PR ignorance but isn't Samson a one man band?

Not at all. Great WBs, tough, decent sized O line.

 

[MWittman]

What was classless!

1. Noticing? No
2. Bringing it up? Classless if it was embarrassing?
3. Or maybe just once one of the Angels in Wilmette get called out for being a jag?
Had that been my kid in the first game there would have been some serious discussions and an apology.

So if mentioning the young fella from Island Lake behaving poorly makes me a jag...

Guilty as charged.

My apologies if it personally offended you or anyone else. Oddly you probably think it was perfectly fine..

PRokie:

Out of delicacy to MS4EVER, a sterling representative of MS, and over my fear I would be branded a sore loser, I hesitated to post over what I personally experienced at the hands of MS students at U of I last week.

As I watched LA players, team captains particularly, gather for the medal ceremony at Memorial, MS students repeatedly cheered "overrated" at the Ramblers while they formed a line on the field.

Shortly afterward, as I exited the stadium, I was greeted with a wave of "FU*K YOUs" hurled at my group from a handful of MS students.

Now I don't know exactly what the Romano boy was doing by running to the front of the line at the conclusion of the regular-season game, one can debate the motive or relevance of his action infinitely, but I do know what reciting "overrated" at a defeated foe at the conclusion of athletic competition is intending to convey and I am certainly aware of the purpose of shouting "FU*K YOU" at anyone regardless of the setting.

 

[PRokie]

PRokie:

Out of delicacy to MS4EVER, a sterling representative of MS, and over my fear I would be branded a sore loser, I hesitated to post over what I personally experienced at the hands of MS students at U of I last week.

As I watched LA players, team captains particularly, gather for the medal ceremony at Memorial, MS students repeatedly cheered "overrated" at the Ramblers while they formed a line on the field.

Shortly afterward, as I exited the stadium, I was greeted with a wave of "FU*K YOUs" hurled at my group from a handful of MS students.

Now I don't know exactly what the Romano boy was doing by running to the front of the line at the conclusion of the regular-season game, one can debate the motive or relevance of his action infinitely, but I do know what reciting "overrated" at a defeated foe at the conclusion of athletic competition is intending to convey and I am certainly aware of the purpose of shouting "FU*K YOU" at anyone regardless of the setting.

If our kids were yelling the F word...
Completely unacceptable even tho as according to Ramble-on they are kids and cannot be called out.

The over-rated part... anh.. not so horrible.

Not true of course, but not so horrible.

That being said, I for one would like to apologize for offensive behavior by any of them as it's not cool. Fair to say EVERY student section and students in general are completely capable if not intending to act stupid. Fortunately my son was on the field.

Kids yelling at kids... happens every day.
Kids saying offensive things to adults is unacceptable in any circumstance.

I appreciate your bringing it to the table and please accept the apologies of the parents.

 

[ramblinman]

If our kids were yelling the F word...
Completely unacceptable even tho as according to Ramble-on they are kids and cannot be called out.
.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Kids can be called out alright. But an adult calling out a specific kid on a public message board is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and is completely uncalled for. If you can't see the difference, you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

 

[capnbillhitters]

If our kids were yelling the F word...
Completely unacceptable even tho as according to Ramble-on they are kids and cannot be called out.

The over-rated part... anh.. not so horrible.

Not true of course, but not so horrible.

That being said, I for one would like to apologize for offensive behavior by any of them as it's not cool. Fair to say EVERY student section and students in general are completely capable if not intending to act stupid. Fortunately my son was on the field.

Kids yelling at kids... happens every day.
Kids saying offensive things to adults is unacceptable in any circumstance.

I appreciate your bringing it to the table and please accept the apologies of the parents.

You really are a piece of work. You specifically disparage, incorrectly so, a 17 yr old football player by name.

And laughing off your kids being horrible sports and taunting a losing team? Zero class.

You are seriously destroying the goodwill generated by MS this year amongst many on this board. You might want to quit before you do more damage.

 

[PRokie]

Really... let me do some research here to see if the either of you have EVER called out a player specifically for bad behavior. A number, position, ANYTHING.

I never laughed off our kids bad behavior and find it appalling, however so often here people wish to bastardize the other guy while not admitting when their own are just as guilty.

That being said... if you're suggesting the high school kids chanting "over rated" is horrible sportsmanship, pretty safe to say you have missed a lot of the obvious in your day, and if that's the worst they say, well it's a good day.

Not to long ago at Wilson field we could overwhelmingly hear a chant of "Goro's Sister" from the angels in the stands. I don't remember anyone denouncing this, or maybe the 2010 game with LA when our car had gotten vandalized.. nary any ownership..
" how do you know it was our kids" was the comment.. coulda been anybody. Except that I only happened to cars with MS stickers. Shall we replay the tape of the 2010 game (original broadcast) showing LA kids in white flipping off our players and mouthing FU? Didn't make the replay though.
Or maybe the LA players at our game with New Trier a few years ago mouthing off in the end zone.

So fellas, before you make me out to be this horrible person, you should know that I don't condone bad sportsmanship from the kids on any level, nor do I turn a blind eye either.

 

[capnbillhitters]

Really... let me do some research here to see if the either of you have EVER called out a player specifically for bad behavior. A number, position, ANYTHING.

I never laughed off our kids bad behavior and find it appalling, however so often here people wish to bastardize the other guy while not admitting when their own are just as guilty.

That being said... if you're suggesting the high school kids chanting "over rated" is horrible sportsmanship, pretty safe to say you have missed a lot of the obvious in your day, and if that's the worst they say, well it's a good day.

Not to long ago at Wilson field we could overwhelmingly hear a chant of "Goro's Sister" from the angels in the stands. I don't remember anyone denouncing this, or maybe the 2010 game with LA when our car had gotten vandalized.. nary any ownership..
" how do you know it was our kids" was the comment.. coulda been anybody. Except that I only happened to cars with MS stickers. Shall we replay the tape of the 2010 game (original broadcast) showing LA kids in white flipping off our players and mouthing FU? Didn't make the replay though.
Or maybe the LA players at our game with New Trier a few years ago mouthing off in the end zone.

So fellas, before you make me out to be this horrible person, you should know that I don't condone bad sportsmanship from the kids on any level, nor do I turn a blind eye either.

I'm saying that coming on this board and calling out a 17 yr old by name is a JAG move.

I'm also saying that waving off kids taunting opponents after a game has ended is a JAG move.

I still seethe over a game at WWS in '13 where students taunted parents as they left the field by screaming "over rated" in mothers faces. I think taunting opponents after a match is disgusting.

Please feel free to review all of my posts. I have, on occasion, written out posts in anger when I hear a kid say something or see players do something on the field or sidelines. I even may hit the post button. But every time, I recognize the fault of calling out 17 year olds that have undeveloped frontal lobes and delete or edit the post.

I just think you have to bite your lip sometime. Do I get frustrated when certain schools take repeated cheap shots and do stupid crap during games where they get rolled by GW? Sure. But wouldn't I sound like an idiot complaining about a team after a 42-0 win?

You guys just completed one of the amazing turn around stories including one of the larger upsets in IHSA history. Why ruin that by calling out an LA kid? And if your students go after another team, apologize and move on.

The reason you inflamed me is that you post in a passive aggressive style that allows you to constantly insult, then respond with a "who me?" kinda comment. Just try to think before you post. And if you post in the heat of the moment, walk away from your computer, grab a drink of water, and come back and reread your post. My guess is that you might do some editing. I have and it helps with with board civility.

 

[PRokie]

I'm saying that coming on this board and calling out a 17 yr old by name is a JAG move.

I'm also saying that waving off kids taunting opponents after a game has ended is a JAG move.

I still seethe over a game at WWS in '13 where students taunted parents as they left the field by screaming "over rated" in mothers faces. I think taunting opponents after a match is disgusting.

Please feel free to review all of my posts. I have, on occasion, written out posts in anger when I hear a kid say something or see players do something on the field or sidelines. I even may hit the post button. But every time, I recognize the fault of calling out 17 year olds that have undeveloped frontal lobes and delete or edit the post.

I just think you have to bite your lip sometime. Do I get frustrated when certain schools take repeated cheap shots and do stupid crap during games where they get rolled by GW? Sure. But wouldn't I sound like an idiot complaining about a team after a 42-0 win?

You guys just completed one of the amazing turn around stories including one of the larger upsets in IHSA history. Why ruin that by calling out an LA kid? And if your students go after another team, apologize and move on.

The reason you inflamed me is that you post in a passive aggressive style that allows you to constantly insult, then respond with a "who me?" kinda comment. Just try to think before you post. And if you post in the heat of the moment, walk away from your computer, grab a drink of water, and come back and reread your post. My guess is that you might do some editing. I have and it helps with with board civility.

Capn, while I completely agree with you on many levels, there are parts of me that don't. Over rated doesn't bother me personally in the least.

However, perception is reality and if our kids offend someone whether I think it's petty or not, that person is still offended. With that I do agree with you.

This is the only time I have ever mentioned a player outright. There's history there.. a lot of if.
The same kid was ejected for targeting last year against us, and should have again this year in the first game. The cumulative effect here is isolated and ends this year.

You may not agree with me, but I sincerely respect your opinion.

Ramble on the other hand can piss off.

 

[stonedlizard]

Compare PR this year to Montini last year and I think you have cause to slot them in at 3/4. Yes they rolled through 6A, but 6A isn't on par with 7/8A and I think that warrants a higher consideration for those champs/runner ups.

 

[capnbillhitters]

Capn, while I completely agree with you on many levels, there are parts of me that don't. Over rated doesn't bother me personally in the least.

However, perception is reality and if our kids offend someone whether I think it's petty or not, that person is still offended. With that I do agree with you.

This is the only time I have ever mentioned a player outright. There's history there.. a lot of if.
The same kid was ejected for targeting last year against us, and should have again this year in the first game. The cumulative effect here is isolated and ends this year.

You may not agree with me, but I sincerely respect your opinion.

Ramble on the other hand can piss off.

I get it. History impacts the decision. But, the 17 yr old makes 17 yr old mistakes. The 45 year old shouldn't make the same mistakes.

As I said, I have written the words in the box many times. In fact I just did it a few weeks ago after a win where one kid on the other team acted like a complete punk.

I just think it helps in the long run to bite your lip. Or, do what I do... When I get bunged up about a kid, I direct message another board member (take your choice) where I vent. By venting, I release the need to do it publicly. Feel free to direct message me any time. It works out better in the long run.

Congrats again on a huge victory.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I have a better idea - the two electronic combatants can strap on some pads and whoever does the best against #75 is considered the winner of the argument. Ambulance will be standing by...

 

[PRokie]

I have a better idea - the two electronic combatants can strap on some pads and whoever does the best against #75 is considered the winner of the argument. Ambulance will be standing by...

Lol VooDoo ( I almost put VD there ..yikes)

I myself will not battle #75! I played in the secondary in my youth and learned you don't poke the bear. Battling Cap'n.... nah I got no beef with him ever. He is much more reasonable than I am.

Battling "The NIPL" ..... well

 

[PRokie]

I get it. History impacts the decision. But, the 17 yr old makes 17 yr old mistakes. The 45 year old shouldn't make the same mistakes.

As I said, I have written the words in the box many times. In fact I just did it a few weeks ago after a win where one kid on the other team acted like a complete punk.

I just think it helps in the long run to bite your lip. Or, do what I do... When I get bunged up about a kid, I direct message another board member (take your choice) where I vent. By venting, I release the need to do it publicly. Feel free to direct message me any time. It works out better in the long run.

Congrats again on a huge victory.

I'm too stupi to know how to direct message!! 99% of my posts are from my phone and I have yet to figure it out. I should ask my kids

 

[capnbillhitters]

I'm too stupi to know how to direct message!! 99% of my posts are from my phone and I have yet to figure it out. I should ask my kids

Agree the app is horribly limited.

So maybe that is the intervention: whenever you want to do something you may regret, put the phone down and use your computer. There is a envelope icon on the Forum page and you can start a direct message there.

Cheers

 

[MS4EVER]

Not at all. Great WBs, tough, decent sized O line.

Ok I wasn't sure. I do feel though that LA has a great defense and would be able to find ways to shut them down.

Agree the app is horribly limited.

So maybe that is the intervention: whenever you want to do something you may regret, put the phone down and use your computer. There is a envelope icon on the Forum page and you can start a direct message there.

Cheers

or or you could stop by MS4EVERs office and we can discuss things. Lol

 

[Cross Bones]

After seeing the stats posted by ramblinman i must say in the 1st half it looked like LA would take control any time now. But MS kept punching back and punching back. In the 2nd half MS simply looked like the better team.

But I do agree that the way winners and losers are characterized isnt always accurrate. Sometimes its a well played game by both teams and one loses.

One thing that could be discussed is that for the years '11, '13, '15, and '16 the Ramblers have looked like the absolute favorites coming into the game only to be turned away in the 'ship 3x. Obviously the quality of opponent comes into play, but whats going on in the final round?

 

[pjjp]

One thing that could be discussed is that for the years '11, '13, '15, and '16 the Ramblers have looked like the absolute favorites coming into the game only to be turned away in the 'ship 3x. Obviously the quality of opponent comes into play, but whats going on in the final round?

I would say LA was favored in 3 (NC, Marist and MS) of the 4. Your Bailey-led Raiders were the favorite in '11.

 

[Cross Bones]

I would say LA was favored in 3 (NC, Marist and MS) of the 4. Your Bailey-led Raiders were the favorite in '11.

Not a chance. LA was def the favs.

 

[Bwm57]

Not a chance. LA was def the favs.

Bones, you don't need to sandbag in the past too, only for the future.

 

[JCHILLTOPPERS]

After seeing the stats posted by ramblinman i must say in the 1st half it looked like LA would take control any time now. But MS kept punching back and punching back. In the 2nd half MS simply looked like the better team.

But I do agree that the way winners and losers are characterized isnt always accurrate. Sometimes its a well played game by both teams and one loses.

One thing that could be discussed is that for the years '11, '13, '15, and '16 the Ramblers have looked like the absolute favorites coming into the game only to be turned away in the 'ship 3x. Obviously the quality of opponent comes into play, but whats going on in the final round?

this reminds me, too, of how often people misuse, or neglect, the true upset. Sometimes, the better team does not win. It happens. Wins and loses are decided on the field. who the better team is does not necessarily mean the same thing.

 

[PRokie]

this reminds me, too, of how often people misuse, or neglect, the true upset. Sometimes, the better team does not win. It happens. Wins and loses are decided on the field. who the better team is does not necessarily mean the same thing.

Completely different scale, but similar to the 1980 US Hockey team. Surprising similarities

 

[pjjp]

Completely different scale, but similar to the 1980 US Hockey team. Surprising similarities

Come on. I know you mentioned different scale, but your Hawks were a slight underdog...nowhere near the underdog status of the 1980 hockey team. That was a very talented MS team, who only lost by 1 in the first meeting.

 

[Cross Bones]

Bones, you don't need to sandbag in the past too, only for the future.

lol

Going into the playoffs we werent even top 5 if I remember correctly. LA was everyone's #1 after MS lost. Even mine. I'll acknowledge of the 4 championship games we were their highest rated opponent, but LA was heavy favs.

 

[PRokie]

Really...
#26 seed

Picked by some to lose by as many as 21, others 14. (Edgy was far more generous)

According to the Kings Challenge.. LA was picked like the Russians to dominate.

6-3, (lost to NT) vs reigning state champs undefeated for 2 years.

MS was supposed to lose each of its previous games prior to finals and LA was considered to have gotten better each week completely blowing through the playoffs

Heart and coaching were the difference

The LA coach, much like Viktor Tikhonov had virtually no answers at the end of the game.

 

[Bwm57]

Completely different scale, but similar to the 1980 US Hockey team. Surprising similarities

Yes, both games had two teams composed entirely of humans.

 

[jwarigaku]

BWM,

In fairness to Bones the computers pick LA as a favorite by a point. Here's the sim data.

neutral field
[2011] Loyola Academy (Wilmette, IL) 22, [2011] Bolingbrook (IL) 21

Bones, you don't need to sandbag in the past too, only for the future.

 

[capnbillhitters]

BWM,

In fairness to Bones the computers pick LA as a favorite by a point. Here's the sim data.

neutral field
[2011] Loyola Academy (Wilmette, IL) 22, [2011] Bolingbrook (IL) 21

Yeah but that score factors in the actual win by Brook. You can't SIM the week 13 teams to know what the pregame score prediction was.

I know the pregame SIM on MS LA was LA -19. Post game SIM is LA -8. So MS 10 point victory reduced dim spread by 11 points. So now question is what was final score of the title game? If Brook won by >20, the pregame spread may have been similar.

 

[jwarigaku]

Capn,


May point was Bones was correct that Bolingbrook were dogs. You further emphasized that since DaBrook won and they are still 1 point dogs.

Yeah but that score factors in the actual win by Brook. You can't SIM the week 13 teams to know what the pregame score prediction was.

I know the pregame SIM on MS LA was LA -19. Post game SIM is LA -8. So MS 10 point victory reduced dim spread by 11 points. So now question is what was final score of the title game? If Brook won by >20, the pregame spread may have been similar.

 

[capnbillhitters]

Capn,


May point was Bones was correct that Bolingbrook were dogs. You further emphasized that since DaBrook won and they are still 1 point dogs.

Sorry. Hanging around a hospital all night with too much time on my hands.

 

[jwarigaku]

Capn,

I hear ya, I'm waiting on word of my buddies nephew that was run over by that animal at Ohio State.

Sorry. Hanging around a hospital all night with too much time on my hands.

 

[flyerforlife]

DSR is pretty good my top 10

1. ESL
2. Maine South
3. Loyola
4. Glenbard West
5. Pairie Ridge
6. Paletine
7. Fenwick
8. Peoria
9. Plainfield North
10. Althoff
11. IC


I do not believe PR would beat any of the top 4 in a head to head matchup.
edit to include Paletine