Waubonsie Valley at Oak Park-River Forest game ending

[OPRF Illini 96]

I covered the Waubonsie Valley/Oak Park-River Forest game Friday night. Waubonsie won 24-17, but to me the game ended in a bit of a controversy.

The Huskies were driving in the closing seconds and were at the Warrior 15-yard line when they took their final timeout with 15 seconds left. On the next play, quarterback Jaden McGill attempted to pass but was sacked immediately. OPRF tried to frantically line up to spike the ball, but Waubonsie wouldn't let McGill get up immediately, then threw the ball toward the sideline as the clock ticked away. Then a flag came out with less than a second on the clock. The officials signaled a delay-of-game penalty on the Warriors; however, they felt time had ran out and didn't allow the Huskies another play.

Now, I always felt that a game couldn't end on a defensive penalty. But this one did. Perhaps a member who has officiating experience can explain.

 

[Irish LB]

I covered the Waubonsie Valley/Oak Park-River Forest game Friday night. Waubonsie won 24-17, but to me the game ended in a bit of a controversy.

The Huskies were driving in the closing seconds and were at the Warrior 15-yard line when they took their final timeout with 15 seconds left. On the next play, quarterback Jaden McGill attempted to pass but was sacked immediately. OPRF tried to frantically line up to spike the ball, but Waubonsie wouldn't let McGill get up immediately, then threw the ball toward the sideline as the clock ticked away. Then a flag came out with less than a second on the clock. The officials signaled a delay-of-game penalty on the Warriors; however, they felt time had ran out and didn't allow the Huskies another play.

Now, I always felt that a game couldn't end on a defensive penalty. But this one did. Perhaps a member who has officiating experience can explain.

That’s very puzzling and I’m about 99% sure the game technically can not end the way described.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Game cannot end on a defensive penalty. I was wondering that in the stands myself - but maybe I am recollecting it wrong but I think the last play was the sack. A flag came out at the end of that play (the sack)
* if the delay of game flag was after time expired - they probably waived it off
* if the delay of game flag was thrown when time still left on the clock - they should have marched off 5 yard penality and run one more play!
* I was hoping it wasn’t unsportsmanlike like conduct flag. If it was before play ended it should have been enforced. If it was after the game ended - then it gets waved off since the game was over when the offending conduct happened?

One of the refs can help us out!

 

[OPRF Illini 96]

You're right, the last play was a sack. And I agree, the game can't end on a defensive penalty. Theoretically, since the delay of game was on Waubonsie (the defensive), OPRF should've been allowed one more play. But from what John Hoerster told me afterwards, the officials made the assumption that the clock ran out. One of the guys here who's a ref can provide some clarification.

I certainly am not suggesting the Huskies would've tied or even won the game - they still would've had to get a touchdown and get a conversion. But to have the game end the way it did had to be tough to take for OPRF. I felt that overall the Huskies outplayed Waubonsie, but the few untimely big plays given up by the defense proved to be decisive in the end.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Also NCTV has a video of the last play with the sack. It is at 3:02 of the NCTV video clip - but unfortunately you can’t see the clock with how much time is left. Just the Ref signaling the runner down in play and for clock to run.

If I could figure out how to post the link to the NCTV video I would!!

 

[SilverHelmets]

Get the Fenwick attorneys

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

You're right, the last play was a sack. And I agree, the game can't end on a defensive penalty. Theoretically, since the delay of game was on Waubonsie (the defensive), OPRF should've been allowed one more play. But from what John Hoerster told me afterwards, the officials made the assumption that the clock ran out. One of the guys here who's a ref can provide some clarification.

I certainly am not suggesting the Huskies would've tied or even won the game - they still would've had to get a touchdown and get a conversion. But to have the game end the way it did had to be tough to take for OPRF. I felt that overall the Huskies outplayed Waubonsie, but the few untimely big plays given up by the defense proved to be decisive in the end.

Absolutely - if the flag was delay of game and it was when time was still on the clock - they should have run one more play.

In terms of the game - I would say that the OPRF Defense definitely outplayed WV Offense (except on those 5 big plays). WV could not run at all between the tackles and hence why they needed to throw a little to get the box unstuffed with the 9 guys in there! WV not converting on the FG to go up by 10 opened the door for that exciting final drive!

I would say the WV defense outplayed the OPRF offense for most of the night as well. They did not allow OPRF to score any points in the second half.

Overall it was a good game from both teams!

 

[OPRF Illini 96]

Absolutely - if the flag was delay of game and it was when time was still on the clock - they should have run one more play.

In terms of the game - I would say that the OPRF Defense definitely outplayed WV Offensie (except on those 5 big plays). WV could not run at all between the tackles and hence why they needed to throw a little to get the box unstuffed with the 9 guys in there! WV not converting on the FG to go up by 10 opened the door for that exciting final drive!

I would say the WV defense outplayed the OPRF offense for most of the night as well. They did not allow OPRF to score any points in the second half.

Overall it was a good game from both teams!

It was. And I feel both teams will get better as the season progresses. I like McGill, he's only a sophomore. That was his first varsity start and I thought he played well. He seemed to have good command of the offense. Yes, he made a critical mistake with his third-quarter fumble that allowed Waubonsie to tie the game, but overall I thought he was solid.

Waubonsie WR Julian Cain is a big-time college prospect. He dropped a couple of easy balls, but when the Warriors needed him when it mattered most in the fourth quarter, he came through with a nice TD catch.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

It was. And I feel both teams will get better as the season progresses. I like McGill, he's only a sophomore. That was his first varsity start and I thought he played well. He seemed to have good command of the offense. Yes, he made a critical mistake with his third-quarter fumble that allowed Waubonsie to tie the game, but overall I thought he was solid.

Waubonsie WR Julian Cain is a big-time college prospect. He dropped a couple of easy balls, but when the Warriors needed him when it mattered most in the fourth quarter, he came through with a nice TD catch.

turnovers are going to happen now and again. We fumbled early on and OPRF was able to capitalize and punch it in during the first half. Just have to shake it off and keep playing!!

I like your QB as well. I think he has really good wiggle and body control running the ball. Did not know he was just a Soph! I think he could develop into a really good dual threat QB as his arm strength develops over the next few years.

I was a little surprised that OPRF did not drop into at least a Single High Safety after the first couple of deep balls connected.

 

[HayReff]

I saw the game too. 0.00 was on the scoreboard. A foul after time expired does not extend the game. If the penalty was sooner or the clock operater a little quicker on the stop watch there would have been one more play after a 5 yrd walk off.
Great game by both teams!

 

[OPRF Illini 96]

turnovers are going to happen now and again. We fumbled early on and OPRF was able to capitalize and punch it in during the first half. Just have to shake it off and keep playing!!

I like your QB as well. I think he has really good wiggle and body control running the ball. Did not know he was just a Soph! I think he could develop into a really good dual threat QB as his arm strength develops over the next few years.

I was a little surprised that OPRF did not drop into at least a Single High Safety after the first couple of deep balls connected.

Yeah, it's like you said earlier - OPRF stacked 9 in the box and dared WV to throw the ball. Per unofficial stats WV got only two first downs the entire game and had 201 total yards. But the Warriors made the three big plays - the 51-yard TD run on their first offensive play of the season, plus the two long TD grabs by Cain.

 

[OPRF Illini 96]

I saw the game too. 0.00 was on the scoreboard. A foul after time expired does not extend the game. If the penalty was sooner or the clock operater a little quicker on the stop watch there would have been one more play after a 5 yrd walk off.
Great game by both teams!

So even if the penalty is on the defense, once the clock hits zero the game is over? I've never heard of it

 

[Chief321]

No foul after the clock hits 0(unless the play is live) is gonna bring you back for a play. What was the time when the play ended? If it was like 5sec then it was meaningless because you weren’t getting another play off anyways, 10sec left and he’s not letting him up then we have another convo, and at that point it probably shouldn’t take 10sec of that rif raf to drop the flag for a delay. Like most things I think you have to see it and not go off the narrative of fans(not saying you’re embellishing or making anything up, but sometimes our rooting interests and emotion of the game skews reality)

 

[FalconPadre]

Anyone watching OPRF on that new documentary series America to Me on Showtime? They showed highlights from their big win over LWE on the last episode. It was filmed 2 years ago apparently.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I plan to. It’s on Starz correct? That’s the one damn premium movie channel I don’t have in my Cadillac cable plan. Any other way to watch it other than adding another movie channel to my cable package?

 

[Zebra]

Rule 3-3-1:
"A period shall be extended by an untimed down if one of the following occurred during a down in which time expires:

a. There was a foul by either team and the penalty is accepted, except for those fouls listed in 3-3-4 b." (fouls that include loss of down don't extend the period).

The key is that time has to expire during the down in which the foul occurred. Has nothing to do with the foul being by the offense or defense.

Another key provision to keep in mind is the rule change from last year:

Rule 3-4-7:
"When a penalty is accepted with less than two minutes remaining in either half, the offended team will have the option to start the game clock on the snap."

In the situation described above, if the game clock had been stopped for the delay of game foul with time remaining, OPRF would have been given the choice to start the clock on the snap instead of the ready. This play situation is one of the primary reasons for the rule change.

If, however, time had expired before the foul for delay of game was called, the game is over.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I think the last play was run with 15 seconds or so on the clock (maybe less). The QB went back for a pass - ran around a bit trying to avoid the sack and then got hit by a linebacker and a DLineman and a DB coming up from deep. The ref on the sideline waved his arm in a circling motion (that means player tacked in bounds and for the clock to keep running? I’m not sure what the arm circle means). I do not know how much time was left when the sideline ref did the arm circle. It was after the sack and when people were getting up from the ground. ’m guessing 6 or 5 seconds?

 

[Zebra]

I think the last play was run with 15 seconds or so on the clock (maybe less). The QB went back for a pass - ran around a bit trying to avoid the sack and then got hit by a linebacker and a DLineman and a DB coming up from deep. The ref on the sideline waved his arm in a circling motion (that means player tacked in bounds and for the clock to keep running? I’m not sure what the arm circle means). I do not know how much time was left when the sideline ref did the arm circle. It was after the sack and when people were getting up from the ground. ’m guessing 6 or 5 seconds?

When a runner is tackled inbounds between the numbers and the sideline the covering official uses the start the clock signal- waving one arm in a circle- to indicate the clock remains running. If the play did end with only 5 or 6 seconds on the clock, it seems likely that much time could run off while the ball was being secured and relayed back to the hash mark for spotting. A couple of other items to keep in mind about high school football and officiating mechanics- we are instructed to keep the same pace between plays throughout the game (it is a point of emphasis this year- NFHS and IHSA want the time from end of the previous play to the ball being marked ready for the next play to be 12 to 15 seconds). Unlike college or pro games, we are expressly told not to spot the ball quicker at the end of games, although you will see attention being paid to illegal delays by the defense in the situation described above.

The use of a 40-second play clock similar to that used in NCAA and NFL, where the next play must be run 40 seconds from when the previous ball is marked dead, has been an experimental rule in several states in the past couple of years and is again this year. It very nearly became a new rule this year and the expectation is that it will soon.

 

[FalconPadre]

I plan to. It’s on Starz correct? That’s the one damn premium movie channel I don’t have in my Cadillac cable plan. Any other way to watch it other than adding another movie channel to my cable package?

I think only on Starz. It is pretty good so far. One of the kids they are following is a wrestler who is also in the band. Trying to cut weight and balance his band friendships. His wrestling friendships which of course are completely different then the band guys. You should check it out.