Please don’t let this happen

[crazylegs777]

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all. If you think Illinois Football is crazy try Tennessee. Don’t let it happen in Illinois. They split public & private schools years ago. Some Public Schools who won state in football say oh we would have beat those Private School champs if we played. Thanks to the split we have 3 watered down classes in private & 6 in public. There are 8 regions in each class & the top 4 go to the playoffs. Some regions have 6,7,8 teams in them & some have 4 so you realistically can have 3-7,2-8,1-9 or 0-10 teams in the playoffs!!! Some teams petition to be put in those 4 team or 5 team regions to level it out but those mostly get declined. Some teams 5-5 or 6-4 get left out. Alcoa is like East St Louis. They are a 2A school playing in 3A & just won their 10th state title in a row. They are now 3A & opting to play 4A. They have a difficult time getting teams to play them. They had to play a team from New York last year & only had 9 games(Tennessee plays 10 game seasons & has a week 0) this year. Bad flooding cancelled games & teams that ended up having a open date would not play them. They play many 6A schools & lose close or beat those teams. If you go on Coach T look up the Milan(starting a separate school for students to keep their enrollment low) & Alcoa threads for one but like I said if you guys think Illinois football is crazy. Oh & trans trying to build up their football programs can play Independent but can’t make the state playoffs. Also if you do a Co-Op they don’t total your enrollment. So a 300 student school combines with a 400 student school it only counts as the host school enrollment 300 not 700 total.

 

[crazylegs777]

2 county schools more than 3 times the size of Alcoa have stopped playing them losing thousands of dollars in $$$$$ because Alcoa is drilling them while other schools move up a class to avoid playing them. What I’m saying is complaints & madness in every state

 

[Alexander32]

It sounds like districts (apparently called regions in Tennessee) are more the problem than the separation of public and private schools.

I remember two or three years ago a contributor to this board, who lived in Tennessee, made several favorable comments about the Tennessee system. As I recall, he liked the fact that privates and publics were separate. I did some online research at the time to see if the two sets of schools ever did play each other occasionally. I soon found out why the regions and playoffs were separate.

Naturally, with regional play and playoffs separate, the only time the two sets of schools could play would be the one or two non-region games the teams were allowed to play each year. As is my usual method, I was looking for games between the two sets of schools when both schools made the playoff semifinals that year, to ensure both schools were top caliber in their respective playoffs. There were only a handful of games that met the criteria over several seasons. In every case the private school won the game by more than 30 points.

It is no wonder Tennessee has separate playoffs for its private and public schools.

 

[doctor_d]

I’ve said many times that I’m not looking for separation, but Texas is near the pinnacle of school ball and they are separated. I get to hear about it fairly often from one of my best childhood/high school friends, who now has lived in the Dallas area for the past 25 years as a teacher and formerly a football coach/now a ref. The only difference is that in Texas, the big public schools are considered better, but I haven’t done the research to find out if the small/medium size schools have much head to head to compare.

 

[GoBlers]

I’ve said many times that I’m not looking for separation, but Texas is near the pinnacle of school ball and they are separated. I get to hear about it fairly often from one of my best childhood/high school friends, who now has lived in the Dallas area for the past 25 years as a teacher and formerly a football coach/now a ref. The only difference is that in Texas, the big public schools are considered better, but I haven’t done the research to find out if the small/medium size schools have much head to head to compare.

The best public schools in Texas recruit more than the Illinois privates do lol. Plenty of boosters with tons of $$$ moving in talent.

 

[corey90]

I’ve said many times that I’m not looking for separation, but Texas is near the pinnacle of school ball and they are separated. I get to hear about it fairly often from one of my best childhood/high school friends, who now has lived in the Dallas area for the past 25 years as a teacher and formerly a football coach/now a ref. The only difference is that in Texas, the big public schools are considered better, but I haven’t done the research to find out if the small/medium size schools have much head to head to compare.

I agree Dr.
I don’t want to see it split either, but as long as Privates are allowed to recruit and Publics can’t the two sides will never agree. It’s heading that way and unless the IHSA comes up with a magical formula that both sides agree. I see the split happening in a few years. Anyone who thinks recruiting isn’t a huge advantage is just lying.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I agree Dr.
I don’t want to see it split either, but as long as Privates are allowed to recruit and Publics can’t the two sides will never agree. It’s heading that way and unless the IHSA comes up with a magical formula that both sides agree. I see the split happening in a few years. Anyone who thinks recruiting isn’t a huge advantage is just lying.

Anyone who doesn’t think public schools recruit is lying…just saying. It’s only going to get worse and the gap regardless of public/private will continue to grown from top teams to good teams, IMO.

 

[crazylegs777]

Anyone who doesn’t think public schools recruit is lying…just saying. It’s only going to get worse and the gap regardless of public/private will continue to grown from top teams to good teams, IMO

 

[crazylegs777]

Not that Private Schools are perfect but the piss poor shape many public schools are in is the perfect recruiting tool for private schools.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Not that Private Schools are perfect but the piss poor shape many public schools are in is the perfect recruiting tool for private schools.

I mean that’s totally district to district and even more micro school to school.

 

[doctor_d]

The best public schools in Texas recruit more than the Illinois privates do lol. Plenty of boosters with tons of $$$ moving in talent.

No doubt. Texas is on another level in many ways. There are multiple large metro areas across the state.
I was more looking at what they have for medium size and smaller schools in the 300-800 range. The ones you don’t normally hear about like Duncanville, Carroll, North Shore, DeSoto…. The 300-~800 (more likely up to about 5A) range here in IL is where most of the angst comes from, and is also the range where I’ve heard multiple CCL fans/supporters on this message board express opinions that would sympathize with the public side.

 

[corey90]

Anyone who doesn’t think public schools recruit is lying…just saying. It’s only going to get worse and the gap regardless of public/private will continue to grown from top teams to good teams, IMO.

Not saying a public school hasn’t recruited? The difference is for Privates it’s legal within the rules. Publics can only get players within there district. Yes some publics may have recruited by talking to a player but in all cases the player and family would have to move in there district. I have no proof of this happening except on a rare occasion when it’s been proven by the IHSA. Privates recruit daily with no problem because they have too recruit to get kids. It’s just is an unfair advantage when it comes to Athletes. You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s an advantage. That said I do understand both sides and there will never be a total agreement. This surfaces every year that I have been on Edgy. I don’t know the answer on how to fix it that will will satisfy both sides. I suggested success factor for both Privates and Publics. That won’t do anything for 8A. I am okay with 8A because I am an East fan, but others that are not competitive might not agree. I just think a split is prolly coming if an agreement can’t be made. I hope both sides can agree because it would be a shame to split.

 

[ramblinman]

The 300-~800 (more likely up to about 5A) range here in IL is where most of the angst comes from

Who, specifically, is causing that angst? Rochester with its 754 students? Byron with 449? Williamsville? Wilmington? Richmond-Burton? The size range you state (by the way, I see you have modified your earlier claim of 1A-4A) is basically the range where public schools have been fairly dominant in recent years. Seriously, what class or classes are you talking about here? 1A? Nope. Almost an exclusive public school club there. 4A? They should simply rename that the Rochester class. 2A? 3A? What?

 

[ramblinman]

Privates recruit daily with no problem because they have too recruit to get kids. It’s just is an unfair advantage when it comes to Athletes.

Prove it, then. Knock yourself out.

All you can do is point to successful private schools as proof of an "unfair advantage." You cannot prove the correlation.

How is it an advantage for Leo, DeLaSalle, St. Pat's, St Bede, ACC, St Ed's, etc.?

You’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s an advantage.

And you and hundreds of others have talked yourselves into believing that there is one without a shred of proof.

I don’t know the answer on how to fix it that will will satisfy both sides.

There is no fix.

I suggested success factor for both Privates and Publics. That won’t do anything for 8A.

Does 8A need relief from the big, bad private schools?

I am okay with 8A because I am an East fan,

Phew! Thought you were about to go in a different direction for a hot second.

but others that are not competitive might not agree.

What does not being competitive in 8A mean? Are you referring to teams that beat everyone else except private schools? There really aren't many like that other than LWE, York, and Maine South in recent years. If not them, who? Seriously, who are you talking about here? If they aren't competitive against private or public schools, then it is simply a case that they just don't like losing to private schools in the playoffs (but somehow losing to other public schools is more acceptable), which is a phenomenon I have identified for years as something that galls most public schools to no end.

 

[corey90]

Prove it, then. Knock yourself out.

All you can do is point to successful private schools as proof of an "unfair advantage." You cannot prove the correlation.

How is it an advantage for Leo, DeLaSalle, St. Pat's, St Bede, ACC, St Ed's, etc.?



And you and hundreds of others have talked yourselves into believing that there is one without a shred of proof.



There is no fix.



Does 8A need relief from the big, bad private schools?



Phew! Thought you were about to go in a different direction for a hot second.



What does not being competitive in 8A mean? Are you referring to teams that beat everyone else except private schools? There really aren't many like that other than LWE, York, and Maine South in recent years. If not them, who? Seriously, who are you talking about here? If they aren't competitive against private or public schools, then it is simply a case that they just don't like losing to private schools in the playoffs (but somehow losing to other public schools is more acceptable), which is a phenomenon I have identified for years as something that galls most public schools to no end.

There are plenty Public schools in 8A that are competitive with other public 8A schools. Didn’t I say this doesn’t apply to 8A since they highest class you can go. We are talking about others that can play up but choose to play where they are assured a championship trophy. Private and Public.

 

[corey90]

Phew! Thought you were about to go in a different direction for a hot second.

Ramblinman if course you did because you are so quick to attack you’re blind to reality.

 

[doctor_d]

Who, specifically, is causing that angst? Rochester with its 754 students? Byron with 449? Williamsville? Wilmington? Richmond-Burton? The size range you state (by the way, I see you have modified your earlier claim of 1A-4A) is basically the range where public schools have been fairly dominant in recent years. Seriously, what class or classes are you talking about here? 1A? Nope. Almost an exclusive public school club there. 4A? They should simply rename that the Rochester class. 2A? 3A? What?

Specific individuals? I don’t know. Not me. I’ve made my points known. Numerous times. Don’t shoot the messenger.
I’ve just seen a lot of noise on social media about the topic.

I’ve said before that it mostly seems a knee jerk reaction to the recently completed season. And yet AGAIN, I’ve stated my opinion over and over that if ultra successful privates get a success factor adjustment, then ultra successful publics should as well. Stop coming at me guns blazin’ all the time.