It is if you are tier 1. About a third of teachers are tier 2 and most wont make anywhere near what current teachers make at the same age due to changes in contracts. Plus you have to work 12 years longer. You take massive penalties on the pension if you retire before the target age. For example if you retire at 62 in new system, it is a 30% penalty on what you are suppose to get.
Mike Fitzgerald leaves York returns to Marist
- Thread starter EdgyTim
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It is if you are tier 1. About a third of teachers are tier 2 and most wont make anywhere near what current teachers make at the same age due to changes in contracts. Plus you have to work 12 years longer. You take massive penalties on the pension if you retire before the target age. For example if you retire at 62 in new system, it is a 30% penalty on what you are suppose to get.
Yes, this mediocre to poor tier 2 pension compared to the excellent tier 1 pension is going to change a lot of things. Those hired 2011 or later have no real reason to have to stay teaching in a public school system as they have to get to 67 to realize any meaningful benefit. Those in tier 1 can get out at 55. So in the next 15-20 years, almost all tier 1 teachers will retire leaving only tier 2 teachers.
So in the next 5-10 years it may be more common to see public school teachers willing to move to a private school. For those in tier 1, it would be foregoing a nice 75 percent of salary pension starting at age 55 or 56, so it would be crazy to walk away from that for a mid-career teacher. Now with tier 2 becoming more and more the majority of public school teachers every year, there is no major incentive to make people feel like they have to stay in the pension system for a fairly pedestrian new retirement benefit.
I agree with your assessment of tier 2 pensions and the affect it can have on teachers. I think we are already seeing this effect in the teacher shortages there is around the state. Start and make 40k with a much lower pension guarantee or get a 50k+ starting job in another sector and start maxing out retirement plans. As for Coach Fitz, not sure of what tier he is in, but if tier 2 and having a strong connection to Marist already, this may be an easier decision than some think.
He taught at Naperville North from 2016-2018 and then York 2018-2024. Definitely Tier 2 I would assume.
All.... Retired from the state and still a union steward with my particular union. All valid points on the tier pension system. I can't tell you how many times I had to sit down and explain to a fellow state worker who was doing the exact same work as his or her co-worker the reason Tier II was in play. Still drives me crazy to this day the "deal" was made. Ratsy
With a name like Fitzgerald, he oughta be able to do well selling the program in Mt Greenwood, Beverly, and EP. No knock on Coach D.
Generally, I agree with you, but I think much depends on the deals that he negotiated at both places. It might be closer than you would think.
For example, is he teaching at York and Marist? Or will he be in administration of some kind at Marist? The press release doesn't stipulate that. Assuming Marist is locked into a faculty tier salary model based on experience and academic credentials, they probably would have more wiggle room to negotiate salary for an administrator than they would for a teacher. Keep in mind that their ex FB head coach Pat Dunne currently works in fundraising at Marist and that Gene Nolan (ex- boys hoops varsity head coach back when Marist was known more for hoops than football) worked in admissions there. Similarly, Coach Desherow at LA is the VP of Admissions. That job alone, which he held before he became head coach, is probably paying him in the $125K ballpark.
Also, what about other potential income producing side gigs such as camps, summer school direction, etc.?
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Prior to this press release from Marist, was it public that Coach D was leaving Marist? I didn't see anything about it here or elsewhere. If so, I think it's very interesting that Marist knew about him leaving, didn't open up a public search, and was able to keep everything quiet while negotiating a deal with the York coach.
I wonder if the timing of the announcement a month after the placement test was intentional. How long have all three parties known?
I wonder if the timing of the announcement a month after the placement test was intentional. How long have all three parties known?
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I hear they have a few Fitzgeralds up in the northern suburbs too. I think they're called lace curtain Irish, although there's not too many shanty Irish in Beverly, EP, or MG.
It's my understanding that Coach D remains at Marist as a teacher, maybe at no cut in pay. What makes private schools different from the publics is that they can recruit wealthy donors as well as football coaches. I think most privates have a pool of discretionary funds, which allows them to survive and even, in some cases, to prosper and thrive.
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Ha! Love the shanty Irish reference.
Right, I meant leaving coaching there. My bad. Still, though, it's interesting that this all happened as it did without a public search, etc.
Coach D is a class act thru and thru. Quite frankly he’s worth more to the school as an AP Chemistry teacher than as a football coach. Being a former UofC grad he will be just fine. Marist will quickly be on the way up. We should start a new thread. All this young blood coming into the coaching ranks of the Catholic League will be really exciting to watch along w some bare knuckle recruiting moving forward. A path Marist usually avoids but could change w Fitz.
I’m curious in some states you can voluntarily pay into SS as a teacher and others not. What does Illinois allow? In the states that allow voluntary payment the retiree can collect their pension and SS.
In Illinois you do not pay into SS if you are paying into TRS. Those who are tier 1 (started before 2011) would never want to pay into SS as the pension is very generous. Like, multiply SS benefits by a fairly large single digit number and allow them to be collected nearly a decade earlier type generous. Those in tier 2 of TRS (after Jan 1, 2011 start date) would likely also rather be in TRS than SS, but it's much closer to a wash.
You can collect SS in addition to TRS if you have earnings from prior to your teaching career or part time work that paid into SS, but the state of IL put in a windfall provision to keep that from being too high a SS payout.
York’s demographics are pretty good for football. They have almost 3,000 kids. Eighty man varsity roster says football is a real thing. WSSC is an easier road
Somewhere around 1986, Illinois was one of 15 states that chose not to collect Social Security from some public employees (teachers, police, firemen) because they had a separate pension system funded (ostensibly?) by the state. No provision was ever made for employees to separately contribute to SS. Not sure how that would work - in other states do employees contribute both the employee and employer share of Social Security. Also, with WEP and GPO the retiree couldn't collect their full amount of Social Security. I worked lots of other jobs and paid Social Security over my work lifetime. I collect only a fraction of my Social Security because of my teacher's pension. At least it pays for Medicare. The WEP and GPO are Federal laws, not Illinois.
And no, Tier 2 is not equivalent to Social Security. At present it is better than Social Security. Unfortunately, because of the way it is structured it may eventually fall below the required Social Security "hold harmless" level. If that happens, all hell will break loose because teachers would be required to pay into Social Security as would their employers (School Districts, therefore taxpayers). Then, there really would be a Pension crisis.
And I meant to say where’s the better place to be between York and Marist, not a better place, which could be York and everywhere else. Minor detail
Sounds like Connecticut and Illinois are similar PA allows for the employee to pay into SS and also have a teacher pension. Guys in my age group that will retire at 62 with their Masters and 20+ years will retire with about $125k combined cash benefits(SS about $15k of that) and full medical coverage till death for the primary and spouse at no cost. It’s a pretty sweet setup.
My mom’s teachers Pension from CT in my opinion was pretty crappy at about $800/month. Thank god she has my Dads sizable pension from Specialty Steel and a nice $2400/month SS benefit plus supplemental medical insurance from my Dad’s company that pays her Medicare Part F gap insurance. Dad passed in 2018 but she’s still going strong at 86 and living with us so she’s got company when she wants it.
Marist had a very nice bounce back years BUT they played in the Orange Division, which is the third tier of the CCL alignment, so there schedule wasn't as strong as they are used to having...and they still didn't win the Conference. Getting Ritter after he left LWE when Williams arrived was huge. Not sure who there QB was slated to be before he arrived but he really took Marist far.
York made the State Finals so I'll give it to them on who did a better job but that's not saying Marist did a bad job, quite the opposite
Fitz left York in a better spot than he received Marist. If he thought York was a better place long term he doesn't go to Marist. He has worked in both public and private and knows the differences. Plus being a public teacher post 2010 makes it easier to leave the system.
That would mean he thinks he has a better chance of beating LA or MC in playoffs at Marist rather than at York - long term?
That JCA loss was costly for Marist. Without it, they aren’t playing Loyola in the 2nd round.
My wife missed tier 1 by a year. Just crazy that it just switched one day. She often gets pittied on co-workers just a couple years further into their career like "oooh yea, sorry". Just kind of a racket.
The difference is staggering. Tier 1 is out at 55 years old after 33 years of service and can collect 75% of average final salary with no limits. Tier 2 takes penalties for every year they start collecting before the age of 67 and they have a cap on what they can make per year in retirement.
There is a movement to undo tier 2 and move all back to tier 1. I assume it has little chance of being successful. But if it the teacher shortage continues to widen, perhaps it will gain some traction as an effort to try to recruit people to the field and, more importantly, keep those currently in tier 2 who have little incentive to remain in the field under the current tier 2 system.
As someone else mentioned above, if tier 2 ever falls below the benefits of SS, that would throw the entire state into chaos as well. Would have to start taking out FICA contributions in addition to pension contributions and that would guarantee a substantial change.
As it stands now, a mid career tier 1 teacher can be offered 200k by a private sector job and it likely doesn't make sense to take the offer. Better to stay teaching and collect the full pension in the mid 50s.
A mid career tier 2 teacher might as well leave if they can get a private sector job offer around 50k per year.
Fitz would not have left York if he did not think it was best for himself and his family on and off the field. Yorks staff did a great job this year getting to the state title but long term I think Marist will be the better program. JCA and LA (Marist only losses) special teams really hurt them in both with missed PATs and a blocked punt. I would taken Marist over most teams in the state outside of 6-8A state champs and LWE when October hit this year. Mike Fitz coming in did not get to pick which division they would be in when he joined so Orange or not it was a great come back year for the RedHawks' and I think they will continue to get better.
I think there ends up being a compromise of age 60 at some point. I don't know many people in Union or office jobs working at or past 67 because they have to.
