8A by the numbers

[Cross Bones]

That thread about "overrated" programs got me wanting to see if the sentiments were accurate or was I correct that the field is just tough so I crunched the numbers. I doubt the schools at the top will be surprising to anyone. These numbers go all the way back to the 1st year in 2001.

Schools that have competed in the class: 85
Schools that have won championships: 12
Schools that have runner-ups: 10
Total schools that have placed: 18
Schools with a winning record: 22
Schools with no wins: 26
Maine South is the 8A king by about every metric with 4 championships, 3 runner-ups and a record of 49-13
Loyola comes in at 2nd with 2 championships and 4 runner-up and a record of 40-13
Lincoln Way East captures the bronze with 3 championships and a 31-9 record
Plainfield schools are a combined 0-10; they gotta step it up

8A	W	L	Champ	Runner Up
DGS	14​	13​	1​
BVE	2​	9​
DGN	7​	4​	1​
Fremd	12​	16​
S'burg	5​	11​
L Park	6​	6​
WV	11​	14​
T'Ton	2​	5​
T'Wood	0​	1​
LWC	3​	8​
Elgin	0​	2​
Stevie	27​	17​	1​	1​
L'port	11​	7​	2​
SCE	4​	6​
Wauk	0​	1​
MS	49​	13​	4​	3​
Warren	15​	16​		1​
Bartlet	7​	13​
Curie	2​	12​
Lane	3​	10​
WN	6​	3​
PFC	0​	4​
Naper N	12​	14​	1​
HC	20​	17​		1​
LWE	31​	9​	3​
Conant	5​	9​
Niles W	0​	7​
WWS	14​	4​	1​
G'Bard N	16​	12​		2​
NT	10​	17​
Schaum	3​	4​
Naper C	25​	13​	1​	1​
Barrington	17​	15​
Streamwd	0​	1​
York	6​	8​
Larkin	0​	2​
WeGo	0​	1​
W'Brook	0​	3​
H-F	22​	15​		1​
Andrew	1​	6​
Rice	21​	15​		1​
Lyons	8​	15​
Moline	0​	1​
Leyden	1​	4​
NV	10​	15​
Alton	0​	1​
Steinmetz	0​	2​
Evanston	1​	9​
B'Brook	18​	14​	1​
OPRF	4​	10​
G'brook S	7​	11​
St. Pat	0​	2​
Stagg	1​	1​
Loyola	40​	13​	2​	4​
Marian	1​	2​
Mt. C	22​	6​	1​	2​
Palatine	14​	10​
Young	0​	2​
Niles ND	2​	8​
Simeon	5​	6​
Marist	21​	11​		2​
Taft	0​	6​
PW	1​	4​
S Elgin	3​	5​
Dunbar	1​	2​
Vocational	0​	1​
Minooka	4​	5​
Ofallon	1​	4​
Bloom	0​	4​
Dun-Crn	0​	1​
PFS	0​	4​
Oswego	10​	7​
G'bard W	9​	5​
Huntley	4​	6​
MV	0​	1​
Benet	0​	1​
Joliet W	0​	4​
Ed'ville	9​	6​
W Aurora	1​	4​
Oswego E	1​	4​
Zion Ben	0​	1​
PFE	0​	1​
PFN	0​	1​
G'bard E	0​	1​

 

[SiuCubFan8]

With that data, what is your point? With all due respect.

 

[Cross Bones]

With that data, what is your point? With all due respect.

This is a great question and I'm glad you asked. Right now in the "overrated" thread the schools with the most nominations are: H-F & Bolingbrook with 4 each and Barrington, Hinsdale C & Naperville C with 3 each.

Excluding the top 2 public schools I mentioned in the 1st post there are only two other public schools with more 8A wins than H-F. As a matter of fact they're tied for 6th most 8A wins whether public or private.

One of those other public schools with more wins than H-F in 8A is Naperville Central. In addition to having more wins than H-F they both possess a runner-up trophy, but Central has a championship to their name. Central has the 5th most wins in the class.

Hinsdale Central has the 10th most 8A victories, 5th for public schools, to go along with their runner-up trophy.

Bolingbrook has the 11th most 8A wins and 6th most for a public school in addition to the 1 championship.

I am not sure why Barrington was nominated as much as they were, but Barrington would be 12th in wins and 7th for a public school. That is impressive considering they don't have any 5 or 4 win playoff runs.

I guess these schools are overrated if they're getting MS, Loyola, or LWE treatment, but are they? Otherwise it seems their hype is proportional or possibly less than their actual results. Or is it more sinister? Do edgy voters simply hate Red, White, and Black color schemes?

 

[Bowie50]

This is a great question and I'm glad you asked. Right now in the "overrated" thread the schools with the most nominations are: H-F & Bolingbrook with 4 each and Barrington, Hinsdale C & Naperville C with 3 each.

Excluding the top 2 public schools I mentioned in the 1st post there are only two other public schools with more 8A wins than H-F. As a matter of fact they're tied for 6th most 8A wins whether public or private.

One of those other public schools with more wins than H-F in 8A is Naperville Central. In addition to having more wins than H-F they both possess a runner-up trophy, but Central has a championship to their name. Central has the 5th most wins in the class.

Hinsdale Central has the 10th most 8A victories, 5th for public schools, to go along with their runner-up trophy.

Bolingbrook has the 11th most 8A wins and 6th most for a public school in addition to the 1 championship.

I am not sure why Barrington was nominated as much as they were, but Barrington would be 12th in wins and 7th for a public school. That is impressive considering they don't have any 5 or 4 win playoff runs.

I guess these schools are overrated if they're getting MS, Loyola, or LWE treatment, but are they? Otherwise it seems their hype is proportional or possibly less than their actual results. Or is it more sinister? Do edgy voters simply hate Red, White, and Black color schemes?

MS is red, white and black. No?

 

[Cross Bones]

MS is red, white and black. No?

too many wins and trophies to make that suggestion with a straight face. What else could it be? What are the likelihood that all the named schools share the same colors?

 

[PowerI66]

too many wins and trophies to make that suggestion with a straight face. What else could it be? What are the likelihood that all the named schools share the same colors?

IMO, it's a combo of regular season performance mixed with playoff expectations. If you have multiple D1 players at an 8A school, you should do better than an average of one to two playoff victories a season

 

[Cross Bones]

IMO, it's a combo of regular season performance mixed with playoff expectations. If you have multiple D1 players at an 8A school, you should do better than an average of one to two playoff victories a season

I guess I never broke football down to counting numbers of prospects on each roster. The data also doesn't bear out that the school with the most prospects wins. I think the data actually supports my views of the class being filled with a bunch of schools (on the public side) with similar talent, 1 through 22. So maybe H-F or The Brook has 3 D1 guys that doesn't mean LWE isn't better 4-22 which would actually make LWE the more talented squad.

 

[PowerI66]

I guess I never broke football down to counting numbers of prospects on each roster. The data also doesn't bear out that the school with the most prospects wins. I think the data actually supports my views of the class being filled with a bunch of schools (on the public side) with similar talent, 1 through 22. So maybe H-F or The Brook has 3 D1 guys that doesn't mean LWE isn't better 4-22 which would actually make LWE the more talented squad.

Are HF or the Brook really getting out-talented most years, and that is the issue? I would argue against team talent depth being the issue in that case.

 

[Cross Bones]

Are HF or the Brook really getting out-talented most years, and that is the issue? I would argue against team talent depth being the issue in that case.

Yes. I would say they are getting out talented typically when they lose. This is because I am looking deeper than a handful of guys with D1 offers. There are times when they get out talented and outcoached. I don't think any coach is out here winning with a big deficit of talent. It's just not happening.

 

[mates1]

Are HF or the Brook really getting out-talented most years, and that is the issue? I would argue against team talent depth being the issue in that case.

I think the words of Joe Paterno apply in this LWE/HF/Brook discussion: "The strongest team is the strongest defensive team."

 

[Blue Ruin]

Everyone from Bear Bryant to Jordan Lynch has said the same thing: "Defense wins championships."

 

[Cross Bones]

I think the words of Joe Paterno apply in this LWE/HF/Brook discussion: "The strongest team is the strongest defensive team."

I think it's more control of the LOS than anything.

Data chart added to original post.

 

[Cross Bones]

Are HF or the Brook really getting out-talented most years, and that is the issue? I would argue against team talent depth being the issue in that case.

Ah, I think I found the perfect example. In 2006 we played Simeon with Tez Wilson (NFL draft pick) and a hell of a player named Jack Ramsey who was also P5. We beat them pretty good 44-20, but they tacked on a couple garbage time TD's to Tez Wilson to make it look closer than it was. Tez and Ramsey vs Dale Martin should be a win for Tez and Ramsey, no?

 

[PowerI66]

Ah, I think I found the perfect example. In 2006 we played Simeon with Tez Wilson (NFL draft pick) and a hell of a player named Jack Ramsey who was also P5. We beat them pretty good 44-20, but they tacked on a couple garbage time TD's to Tez Wilson to make it look closer than it was. Tez and Ramsey vs Dale Martin should be a win for Tez and Ramsey, no?

You can find examples going both ways, I'm not afraid to admit that. Again, in most years I think you could look at Brook and HF starters next to the opposing teams rosters and assume a W if going by players. Exceptions? Of course. Upsets? Definitely. I just think those team suffer far more upsets than others. Dallas Cowboys style

 

[Cross Bones]

You can find examples going both ways, I'm not afraid to admit that. Again, in most years I think you could look at Brook and HF starters next to the opposing teams rosters and assume a W if going by players. Exceptions? Of course. Upsets? Definitely. I just think those team suffer far more upsets than others. Dallas Cowboys style

I'm saying it wasn't an upset at all. Despite Tez being the top prospect on the field we were better at more positions which is more important to winning a football game. I think people may be misreading something on their eye tests.

some context. In track this was our sectional at Naperville North; we had one sprinter go to state in the 100. We came in 14th in the 4x100 and 13th in the 4x200. But we may have looked faster before the race.

Aurora (Metea Valley)
Bolingbrook
Darien (Hinsdale South)
Downers Grove (North)
Downers Grove (South)
Hinsdale (Central)
LaGrange (Lyons)
Lemont (H.S.)
Lisle (Benet Academy)
Lockport (Twp.)
Naperville (Central)
Naperville (Neuqua Valley)
Naperville (North)
Orland Park (Sandburg)
Palos Hills (Stagg)
Romeoville (H.S.)

So, the point is while people think they can tell that they are more "talented" than everyone they come across by simply looking at them and they're underachieving, maybe they're not the D1 team you think they are and they're really the school losing in sprints to those schools up there and they're actually overachieving based on the talent that is there.

 

[mc140]

Two varsity football kids ran for Bolingbrook at that sectional and one qualified for state.

 

[Cross Bones]

Two varsity football kids ran for Bolingbrook at that sectional and one qualified for state.

He's a good RB. But this supports what I'm saying. Can't look at Howard and conclude the sprinters are all fast. Same in football, can't look at Borland and assume everyone on the field is Ohio State. Sometimes they're 14th out of 16 and overachieving by being 7-3.

 

[pjjp]

Bones...I've actually come around to your point of view about the Brook football program. A few years back, you made the point that it had become more of a basketball school. At the time, I doubted you, but I would agree at this point. They are still good in football (not what they once were), but their basketball program is stellar.

 

[Cross Bones]

Bones...I've actually come around to your point of view about the Brook football program. A few years back, you made the point that it had become more of a basketball school. At the time, I doubted you, but I would agree at this point. They are still good in football (not what they once were), but their basketball program is stellar.

Hoops has a kid, about 6'4" bull in a China shop type kid. Pretty good basketball player, but whenever I see him I imagine him in the LWE backfield throwing people around. Basketball is king now with kids playing for Kansas and all, but the school can sustain both IMO. I just want people to realize these kids aren't physically better than everyone, neither are the H-F kids. When I went and saw H-F play at EStL against Lutheran North, LN easily had the more prospects of the two. H-F was just a better football team by a long shot.