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2016 DARK SIDE RANKING FINAL

The computers predicted:
LA 24-21 in '11 (actual BB 21-17)
LA 22-19 in '13 (actual NC 13-10)
LA 42-21 in '15 (actual LA 41-0)
LA 38-24 in '16 (actual MS 27-17)

Not that I honor the computers. I agree with what a poster said earlier, it looked like LA wanted to win without using Marwede. I can't say I haven't seen similar things from other teams, just not in the championship. I remember similar questions being asked when MS was the 3x consecutive runner up, then they put a strangle hold on the 'ship soon thereafter. I think the rest of 8A is hoping this IS the stranglehold and that there's no more domination to be had.
 
DSR is pretty good my top 10

1. ESL
2. Maine South
3. Loyola
4. Glenbard West
5. Pairie Ridge
6. Fenwick
7. Peoria
8. Plainfield North
9. Althoff
10. IC

I do not believe PR would beat any of the top 4 in a head to head matchup.
Interesting that you have Althoff in there, but not the team they lost to. What's your rationale behind that?
 
Or that he has GW at number 4, but not Palatine at all.

Or that only 3 of 10 are 8A schools.

Or that there are only two schools separating LA and Fenwick, a school Loyola beat by 32 pts.
 
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I always wondered why fans of a program that won a state title always get worked up over final season rankings. Is it really that important to them if they're 2nd or 3rd or 1st in the Sun-Times, Trib, or Edgy poll? Jeez....a state title isn't good enough?
 
Interesting that you have Althoff in there, but not the team they lost to. What's your rationale behind that?

Althoff took Rochester out to the wood shed in my opinion, If not for the coach crying to refs then late flags coming out Rochester would not be state champs. just like PN should not have been in the finals but 2 different situations. But the refs played an outcome in both games.
 
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I always wondered why fans of a program that won a state title always get worked up over final season rankings. Is it really that important to them if they're 2nd or 3rd or 1st in the Sun-Times, Trib, or Edgy poll? Jeez....a state title isn't good enough?

A state title is definitely good enough but some people like to have barber shop talk. There is no way of knowing who is best so its all just discussion.
 
I always wondered why fans of a program that won a state title always get worked up over final season rankings. Is it really that important to them if they're 2nd or 3rd or 1st in the Sun-Times, Trib, or Edgy poll? Jeez....a state title isn't good enough?
Good point.
Rankings don't come with hardware.
 
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Even if they avenged two of the losses?

OK guys in my poll you want MS over Loyola. That means MS would be 3 and LA 4 because there's no chance on God's green earth I'm putting MS over an undefeated ESL and PR. I truly think A: LA wins a 3rd matchup and B: LA has the better body of work. I'm not going to lie, if MS lost even by a point I put MS behind Palatine too because Palatine won 2.5 playoff games without their all-state QB. Nothing but respect for MS but putting them any higher than 3 is ludicrous in my eyes.
 
I always wondered why fans of a program that won a state title always get worked up over final season rankings. Is it really that important to them if they're 2nd or 3rd or 1st in the Sun-Times, Trib, or Edgy poll? Jeez....a state title isn't good enough?

One is a battle played out on the field by 17 year old kids.

The other is a battle of wits and logic played by passionate, crusty old men.

Two completely different things & it's why we pay the fee and hang around on this board.
 
OK guys in my poll you want MS over Loyola. That means MS would be 3 and LA 4 because there's no chance on God's green earth I'm putting MS over an undefeated ESL and PR. I truly think A: LA wins a 3rd matchup and B: LA has the better body of work. I'm not going to lie, if MS lost even by a point I put MS behind Palatine too because Palatine won 2.5 playoff games without their all-state QB. Nothing but respect for MS but putting them any higher than 3 is ludicrous in my eyes.

Earlier in this thread, I provided the DSR guidelines that I would employ if I were a DSR voter before ranking one team ahead of another. I would ask myself what is the result of ten head to head match-ups between those two schools. If I really think about it, record should be a subordinate factor in this analysis, because this is the DSfreakingR we are talking about.

It's pretty clear to me that MS and Loyola are two well matched teams. Even super MS homer PRokie all but admitted that MS had to play the perfect game to beat LA. If such guidelines were applied to those two schools, I think Loyola gets the nod, but it would be a close nod. Could even be 5-5. Certainly nothing at the extreme end of the possibilities.

What do you think, gooms? What would your prediction be about ten contests between LA and MS?. Since Loyola beat MS with a healthy Hamid Bullie, why not throw him into your considerations? He was the starting RB and was splitting playing time pretty evenly with Rock before he went down with the ACL tear.
 
Completely different scale, but similar to the 1980 US Hockey team. Surprising similarities

Did you have an aneurysm or something? You've gone off the rails lately, this just puts the cherry on top.
 
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Earlier in this thread, I provided the DSR guidelines that I employ before ranking one team ahead of another. I ask myself what is the result of ten head to head match-ups between those two schools. It's pretty clear to me that MS and Loyola are two well matched teams. Even super MS homer PRokie all but admitted that MS had to play the perfect game to beat LA. If such guidelines were applied to those two schools, I think Loyola gets the nod, but it would be a close nod. Could even be 5-5. Certainly nothing at the extreme end of the possibilities.

What do you think, gooms? What would your prediction be about ten contests between LA and MS?. Since Loyola beat MS with a healthy Hamid Bullie, why not throw him into your considerations? He was the starting RB and was splitting playing time pretty evenly with Rock before he went down with the ACL tear.
Okay... I'm a homer.

This is interesting because there are intangibles in play that I don't think the computers can account for. While all of this is highly subjective, I think the biggest difference maker that cannot be measured by stats per se' is coaching and desire.

I do believe man for man, athletic ability only, we were clearly outmatched by LA. Not even close.

Add those two intangibles and I'll take MS against ESL or PR, LA, in multiple game matchups all day.
 
Did you have an aneurysm or something? You've gone off the rails lately, this just puts the cherry on top.
Go back to your ice cream Sunday with your Blinders on and your coloring book. I don't recall your having so much gumption earlier this season.
 
Go back to your ice cream Sunday with your Blinders on and your coloring book. I don't recall your having so much gumption earlier this season.


PRokie...I really think you are doing a disservice to the MS community by what you write on the board. Any goodwill generated by MS4EVER is quickly wiped away by your posts. You are turning into Maine South's version of IrishGlory88. I understand this isn't your intent, but it is certainly the result. Maybe time to step back and think before you post?
 
Go back to your ice cream Sunday

No thanks, but I'll take an ice cream sundae.

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Earlier in this thread, I provided the DSR guidelines that I would employ if I were a DSR voter before ranking one team ahead of another. I would ask myself what is the result of ten head to head match-ups between those two schools. If I really think about it, record should be a subordinate factor in this analysis
I agree with the idea that the rankings should be made conceptually with the thinking of head to head match-ups. Any of the top ten teams could win a single game, in the perfect conditions, if everything goes right for them that single day.
The full season records mean less to me as the teams develop differently over the season, injuries occur, players improve (or don't), many teams are much different at the the of November than they were in the beginning of September. Maybe this isn't fair to the teams that suffered injuries to significant players in the playoffs, but that's what the (sort of) weekly rankings are for.
I would look at as a snapshot of who is playing the best when the championships occurred, on that day if they played three times, five times who would win.
1) MS
2) LA
3) ESL
4) PR
 
Okay... I'm a homer.

This is interesting because there are intangibles in play that I don't think the computers can account for. While all of this is highly subjective, I think the biggest difference maker that cannot be measured by stats per se' is coaching and desire.

I do believe man for man, athletic ability only, we were clearly outmatched by LA. Not even close.

Add those two intangibles and I'll take MS against ESL or PR, LA, in multiple game matchups all day.

As a fan of MS I am sure you would. No one expects differently.
 
I agree with the idea that the rankings should be made conceptually with the thinking of head to head match-ups. Any of the top ten teams could win a single game, in the perfect conditions, if everything goes right for them that single day.
The full season records mean less to me as the teams develop differently over the season, injuries occur, players improve (or don't), many teams are much different at the the of November than they were in the beginning of September. Maybe this isn't fair to the teams that suffered injuries to significant players in the playoffs, but that's what the (sort of) weekly rankings are for.
I would look at as a snapshot of who is playing the best when the championships occurred, on that day if they played three times, five times who would win.
1) MS
2) LA
3) ESL
4) PR


With all this said, MS played LA for a second time. It is very difficult to beat a team twice in a season unless you are completely head and shoulders above that team. I don't have an opinion on who should be tops but I will make some statements regarding your top four. A lot of people are giving credit to Main South playoff run based feelings compared to reality. For starters how big is beating LWE when they lost to Bradley. Looking on film Bradley was never a top team which Bones made that clear on multiple occasions throughout the season. They also beat WA which could have gone either way meaning not much separation and Barrington who's credibility was sharpened by beating MS. It is only fitting MS come out on top the second time around.

LA- Throughout the season with close calls against MS, MC, and BR most question them being number one. The consensus was they were number one until someone beat them. Well it happened, and I feel if they played either one of those teams a second time, the results would be similar to MS. The one victory that made LA stand tall was GBW however all signs let to a different type of GBW team this year. The gave up almost 40 points to OPRF during the season. That told me that this wasn't the typical GBW defense this year.

Now I find it hard to see how these teams are head and shoulders better than teams that never lost. Start with PR, they dominated everyone that was in front of them. There is nothing more they could have done. Yes I feel they were one dimensional however they were great at. Very great at it.
Now ESL pretty much dominated everyone. They did have two close call with CBC who I think when healthy will give EVERY team in illinois problems and GN who started the year as Preseason #4 team. Even in those games ESL Defense shut down the run. They dominated the run all season and never allowed RB to get 100 yards. The closest was the RB from O'fallon who had 86 yards on 32 attempts. Now that may not seem like a huge deal but here are some stats.
Warfield from PC had 17
Back from CBC had 70 with 46 coming on one run
BW thousand yard rusher had 50
Rodgers from E'ville who ended the year with 1800 was 10 for 10.
Tricas (sp) from GN who ran over everyone had 56 total and a 50 yard touchdown.
I can go on and on but you get the point. They DOMINATED everybody run game this year. They did this will guys going both ways after the ACL injuries during the week 2 game with CBC. In the Qtrs. the score was 40-7 before Willowbrook gave it everything they had. They shut Benet out and the score was 27-0 in the championship before ESL shut down and PN got on the board.

Bottom line is I didn't see anything from MS or LA that says ESL Defense couldn't shut down their Run game and make them one dimensional. I also didn't see anything from MS and LA that says their defense would absolutely shut down the PR offense.

Outside of popular pick and emotions, NO ONE should have MS or LA 1 or 2 objectively. I will finish with saying ALL 4 teams were great this year and provide some good football to Illinois High School football fans. Looking forward to 2017.
 
Earlier in this thread, I provided the DSR guidelines that I would employ if I were a DSR voter before ranking one team ahead of another. I would ask myself what is the result of ten head to head match-ups between those two schools. If I really think about it, record should be a subordinate factor in this analysis, because this is the DSfreakingR we are talking about.
BWM touched on this in an above post, but I think the point bears repeating. I believe you are suggesting that overall record should be subordinate to how a team is playing at the end of the year. That's the argument those who voted MS #1 had to employ to justify MS at #1. However, this is where I disagree with your criteria: who wins the majority of 10 matchups? IMO, if MS and LA played 10 times, I think LA wins the majority of the matchups. However, I can't vote LA ahead of MS. Can't ignore the objective measure of two matchups on the field with MS winning the second, which holds greater significance. And, they only lost by one in the first matchup. I don't think looking at things in aggregate holds much significance, but the fact remains MS did outscore LA by a total of 9 pts. in the two matchups. Therefore, the fact I think LA wins the majority of matchups is not the ultimate deciding factor between the two in the rankings, JMO.

BTW, I would love to hear your thoughts on the championship game, if you have a chance to see a replay. I'd be curious to hear your analysis of how you think LA played in the game. How would you evaluate their game plan etc. etc.?
 
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BWM touched on this in an above post, but I think the point bears repeating. I believe you are suggesting that overall record should be subordinate to how a team is playing at the end of the year. That's the argument those who voted MS #1 had to employ to justify MS at #1. However, this is where I disagree with your criteria: who wins the majority of 10 matchups? IMO, if MS and LA played 10 times, I think LA wins the majority of the matchups. However, I can't vote LA ahead of MS. Can't ignore the objective measure of two matchups on the field with MS winning the second, which holds greater significance. And, they only lost by one in the first matchup. I don't think looking at things in aggregate holds much significance, but the fact remains MS did outscore LA by a total of 9 pts. in the two matchups. Therefore, the fact I think LA wins the majority of matchups is not the ultimate deciding factor between the two in the rankings, JMO.

BTW, I would love to hear your thoughts on the championship game, if you have a chance to see a replay. I'd be curious to hear your analysis of how you think LA played in the game. How would you evaluate their game plan etc. etc.?

Hard to disagree (much) with what you are saying. Clearly, the more recent game holds more weight. But, there are lots of factors that I think everyone employs to rank teams where they do. All I am saying is that who you think is the better team overall should be the ultimate deciding factor. The ten games thing is a good way, in my opinion, to help determine that. I originally brought this up relative to voters ranking ICCP. One of those voters thinks that only four teams in Illinois are better than the Knights.

I would like to watch the game. Do you know where I might find it? Looked for it On Demand. Nope.
 
It really just depends on what each voter is voting on and what their most important factors are. At the end of the season I weight the entire season more, while during the season I weight how a team is playing at the moment. As for MS vs ESL? I like MS's resume better because of the post season run, BUT I think in a matchup ESL would win. MS was able to beat LA with quickness, that's just not happening against the Flyers.
 
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Hard to disagree (much) with what you are saying. Clearly, the more recent game holds more weight. But, there are lots of factors that I think everyone employs to rank teams where they do. All I am saying is that who you think is the better team overall should be the ultimate deciding factor. The ten games thing is a good way, in my opinion, to help determine that. I originally brought this up relative to voters ranking ICCP. One of those voters thinks that only four teams in Illinois are better than the Knights.

I would like to watch the game. Do you know where I might find it? Looked for it On Demand. Nope.
If you have comcast I believe you can find it in "getting local" section.
 
I Stand completely corrected!!!

Wrong on all levels was I to make that accusation as I missed him.

My apologies to him and anyone reading.

Thank you MS4 for correcting me. It's important to get the facts right.

PRokie any chance you coached the falcons Jr Midget team in 2015?
 
Did I really just read that MS's upset over Loyola was akin to the Miracle on Ice? Please tell me that isn't real.
 
Did I really just read that MS's upset over Loyola was akin to the Miracle on Ice? Please tell me that isn't real.

It's real in PRokie's world in which Loyola is the evil empire and MS is all about mom, apple pie, and the girl next door.
 
It's real in PRokie's world in which Loyola is the evil empire and MS is all about mom, apple pie, and the girl next door.
Actually it isn't ramble-on

Remember, you couldn't wait for Saturday as you posted.... then cricketts.

The big difference here i am more than willing to admit when I'm wrong, or stand corrected. Immediately
You on the other hand stand to deflect the truth or IGNORE it if it doesn't reflect the narrative you want.

My reference to the Miracle on Ice was merely noting similarities... and I absolutely mentioned right off the bat it was in a completely different class of event.
 
You cannot compare MS/Loyola in any way shape or form to one of the biggest upsets of all time (miracle on ice) - a bunch of college kids taking on an international "pro team" that had played together for years and beat the 1979 NHL all star team 2 out of three games including a 6-0 rout. That NHL all star team had 20 future hall of gamers on it. TWENTY!! Time for some perspective.
 
You cannot compare MS/Loyola in any way shape or form to one of the biggest upsets of all time (miracle on ice) - a bunch of college kids taking on an international "pro team" that had played together for years and beat the 1979 NHL all star team 2 out of three games including a 6-0 rout. That NHL all star team had 20 future hall of gamers on it. TWENTY!! Time for some perspective.
lol not mention the Soviets beat the American 10-3 right before the '80 Olympics. That was the goofiest comparison I've ever seen.
 
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