What's best for CPS?

[4Afan]

Honest question for the CPS followers here. Regardless of what others here say, what does CPS want in terms of football moving forward? Everyone talks about changing things, but are CPS teams happy with the current setup? Do they want something different? If the consensus is that they're fine with how things currently sit then I don't see where we need to keep discussing it.

Would they consider leaving the IHSA for football? I feel like this would be a good option for them. This has nothing to do with the kids because there's plenty of athletic ability on these teams but there are a multitude of reasons why CPS teams, with the exception of a very few, cannot compete with the rest of the state.

There's 82 CPS teams currently participating in football. If they were to leave the IHSA then they could classify teams however they wanted to create a more competitive environment and have the best chance to complete a 9 game schedule or they could choose to play more or less regular season games. They could have their own post season culminating in crowning multiple city champions.

Another option for teams that the CPS decides don't qualify for the playoffs would be going to 8 man football for those schools. I think some of those teams could find success going that route.

 

[Quags57]

There is no way CPS is leaving the IHSA.

 

[Coach Percy]

Let it go bro.......CPS isn't going anywhere and we are cool with the current set up. We always have been. It's everybody else trying to tell us what is best for us. Do you hear us saying that we should drop certain conferences in basketball because they can't compete with us? Just let it go

 

[4Afan]

Let it go bro.......CPS isn't going anywhere and we are cool with the current set up. We always have been. It's everybody else trying to tell us what is best for us. Do you hear us saying that we should drop certain conferences in basketball because they can't compete with us? Just let it go

That's all I was looking for. I don't follow CPS that closely so that's why I was asking.

 

[King MJ]

Let it go bro.......CPS isn't going anywhere and we are cool with the current set up. We always have been. It's everybody else trying to tell us what is best for us. Do you hear us saying that we should drop certain conferences in basketball because they can't compete with us? Just let it go

Not trying to start a flame war, coach, but serious question.

Do you think there could be any support for moving to 8-man for some of the smaller and non-playoff eligible CPS schools who struggle to field a full team at times?

 

[crazylegs777]

Not trying to start a flame war, coach, but serious question.

Do you think there could be any support for moving to 8-man for some of the smaller and non-playoff eligible CPS schools who struggle to field a full team at times?

Many years ago they had teams that went 8 man

 

[Coach Percy]

Schools are starting to Co-Op instead of 8man. Marshall/Raby, Collins/Manley, All 3 Perspectives, and others and there will be more this coming year. The next step will be getting better coaching staffs to lead these programs

 

[4Afan]

Schools are starting to Co-Op instead of 8man. Marshall/Raby, Collins/Manley, All 3 Perspectives, and others and there will be more this coming year. The next step will be getting better coaching staffs to lead these programs

In your opinion, do you think Co-Ops are the best option for those schools over going to 8 man?

 

[Silver Rain]

Schools are starting to Co-Op instead of 8man.

In your opinion, do you think Co-Ops are the best option for those schools over going to 8 man?

I think Coach Percy would agree that the co-op model will work well for the CPL. Other states have used it with success. Small teams join their names together like some married couples, and they fight about money and get divorced like some married couples. But on the whole it seems to work. Former rivals become friends, and more kids get a chance to play.

 

[Coach Percy]

Yep.....but there are a ton of schools (i.e. Kennedy, Curie, Kelly, Prosser, Steinmetz) that shouldn't need to Co-Op to be better, they have the kids in the building.....they just need coaches that know the game and how to put together a program. I work as an AYF ref in the summer in the city and all I see is catholic and suburban schools at the games pulling our CPS elementary kids. We need to be at those games too...making relationships with the coaches and making sure parents and kids see are presence.

 

[Coach Percy]

Congratulations to Reggie Collins, former HC at Lincoln Park, is now the HC at North Lawndale College Prep

 

[crazylegs777]

Yep.....but there are a ton of schools (i.e. Kennedy, Curie, Kelly, Prosser, Steinmetz) that shouldn't need to Co-Op to be better, they have the kids in the building.....they just need coaches that know the game and how to put together a program. I work as an AYF ref in the summer in the city and all I see is catholic and suburban schools at the games pulling our CPS elementary kids. We need to be at those games too...making relationships with the coaches and making sure parents and kids see are presence.

Many of the kids in those schools aren't tough enough to be on the gridiron like they should. They think being in gangs preying on the weak makes them tough

 

[Coach Percy]

Many of the kids in those schools aren't tough enough to be on the gridiron like they should. They think being in gangs preying on the weak makes them tough

I see you haven't been in these schools before.....those kids have just as much talent and ability as a kid at a catholic or suburban school......they just don't have the same access to good coaching and equipment as those other kids.

 

[crazylegs777]

I see you haven't been in these schools before.....those kids have just as much talent and ability as a kid at a catholic or suburban school......they just don't have the same access to good coaching and equipment as those other kids.

That's on them. They need to quit blaming everyone else & get things straight. Basketball is not a problem. I could start with the 1st problem but don't wish to get flushed. ESL for years still even was dirt poor,played on a cinder field,mismatched uniforms & old equipment yet beat the living heck out of almost everybody

 

[HotBeer]

There's 82 CPS teams currently participating in football. If they were to leave the IHSA then they could classify teams however they wanted to create a more competitive environment and have the best chance to complete a 9 game schedule or they could choose to play more or less regular season games. They could have their own post season culminating in crowning multiple city champions.

They already do classify teams however they want. Regarding the teams that can't complete a a season, no amount of scheduling or classifying is going to fix that. There is definitely no interest from anyone on the CPS side in removing themselves from the state playoffs, for a multitude of reasons.

Another option for teams that the CPS decides don't qualify for the playoffs would be going to 8 man football for those schools. I think some of those teams could find success going that route.

I think 8-man ended pre-2010 (maybe '06?) in CPS. The real, long-term solution is consolidate and grow schools and stop opening a dozen charter schools every year. It's much more difficult to find 82 qualified coaching staffs, 82 rosters, 82 practice fields, and 82 sets of equipment than it is to find, say, 50.

I don't have any exposure to co-opping, but it seems like a logistical nightmare. If I was some of these blue-level schools who have 15 guys by week 5, I would love the idea of playing 8 man. But I don't think 8 man or co-ops are a good long-term solution.

 

[4Afan]

I don't have any exposure to co-opping, but it seems like a logistical nightmare. If I was some of these blue-level schools who have 15 guys by week 5, I would love the idea of playing 8 man. But I don't think 8 man or co-ops are a good long-term solution

With more and more teams across the state opting for 8 man what is your reasoning for thinking it wouldn't be a good long term fit for some of these schools?

 

[stl705]

With more and more teams across the state opting for 8 man what is your reasoning for thinking it wouldn't be a good long term fit for some of these schools?

I don’t know much about CPS football, nor am I assuming what’s best, but 8-man just feels like such a good fit for a lot of CPS football programs with the existing 8-man infrastructure IHSA has from my view. I don’t think it’s a black eye, I just think it’s reality.

It seems like it would be such a smooth transition for many CPS to band their own 2-division, 8-man league (or however many teams would migrate) and join existing 8-man playoffs.

 

[Coach Percy]

That's on them. They need to quit blaming everyone else & get things straight. Basketball is not a problem. I could start with the 1st problem but don't wish to get flushed. ESL for years still even was dirt poor,played on a cinder field,mismatched uniforms & old equipment yet beat the living heck out of almost everybody

I totally agree. There are good coaches in CPS but alot of them are stuck as assistants under incompetent head coaches. It's an old boy system. A lot of them have migrated to the suburbs and catholic schools. The ADs and principals keep recycling the same Head Coaches or hire their friends which has kept CPS stagnanted for years!

 

[HotBeer]

With more and more teams across the state opting for 8 man what is your reasoning for thinking it wouldn't be a good long term fit for some of these schools?

The leading reason (by far) that CPS (blue, mostly) schools struggle to finish seasons maintain roster numbers is that the schools themselves are dying on the vine, have less than 300 kids, and are insanely inefficiently run. I've talked about this at length in another thread.

For CPS to be healthy beyond football, these schools can't exist in that form. So 8-man football may be a stopgap in the meantime, but there are no logical reasons that CPS should run schools smaller than 500 students fielding football teams (exceptions would by arts or specialty programs, etc.) and those schools should have no issue fielding 11-man football teams.

 

[RichieRebel]

The leading reason (by far) that CPS (blue, mostly) schools struggle to finish seasons maintain roster numbers is that the schools themselves are dying on the vine, have less than 300 kids, and are insanely inefficiently run. I've talked about this at length in another thread.

For CPS to be healthy beyond football, these schools can't exist in that form. So 8-man football may be a stopgap in the meantime, but there are no logical reasons that CPS should run schools smaller than 500 students fielding football teams (exceptions would by arts or specialty programs, etc.) and those schools should have no issue fielding 11-man football teams.

There is 100% to the declining enrollment, without a doubt. Biggest issue for CPS football programs is the investment in it. Look at their weight rooms, technology, fields, etc etc and compare them to the suburbs. Look at CJ at Morgan Park he had to build his locker room.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

The leading reason (by far) that CPS (blue, mostly) schools struggle to finish seasons maintain roster numbers is that the schools themselves are dying on the vine, have less than 300 kids, and are insanely inefficiently run. I've talked about this at length in another thread.

For CPS to be healthy beyond football, these schools can't exist in that form. So 8-man football may be a stopgap in the meantime, but there are no logical reasons that CPS should run schools smaller than 500 students fielding football teams (exceptions would by arts or specialty programs, etc.) and those schools should have no issue fielding 11-man football teams.

CTU… and don’t want this thread to get derailed.

 

[HotBeer]

There is 100% to the declining enrollment, without a doubt. Biggest issue for CPS football programs is the investment in it. Look at their weight rooms, technology, fields, etc etc and compare them to the suburbs. Look at CJ at Morgan Park he had to build his locker room.

Right, and the reason for that is the inefficiency in the district. The CPS spends more $$$ per student than the vast majority of suburban school districts. But it's spent across too many campuses so the operating leverage is low. The money is there at the district level, but it's blown on paying for busses and principals and secretaries and utilities and maintenance on all these tiny high schools.

 

[RichieRebel]

but it's blown on paying for busses

They don’t fund CTA

 

[UlbKA91]

They don’t fund CTA

They did fund several yellow bus routes for elementary SES until this year; now it's service only for IEP and special needs students (pardon the source):

https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/1...ion-students-for-the-rest-of-the-school-year/

 

[HotBeer]

They don’t fund CTA

That was your takeaway there?

School busses. Paying bus drivers to run routes for 12 schools with 250 kids is more expensive than 6 schools with 500 kids. It's an example of the endless cost inefficiencies with the way the district is run. Not a primary driver, but an example.

And per UlbKA91 above, it looks like they have now stopped bussing altogether, so feel free to replace "busses" in my original comment with "foodservice contracts" or "property insurance" or "basketball referees" or any of the dozens of other fixed costs that come with operating too many schools.

 

[guerinfbfan]

@Coach Percy What's a stipend like for a CPS coach? Like a HC, OC, or DC? I assume there are quite a few unpaid volunteers right.

 

[Coach Percy]

HC = 7500
Asst Head = 5500
Soph HC = 3500
Varsity Asst = 2000
Soph Asst = 1500
Freshman HC = 1000

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

HC = 7500
Asst Head = 5500
Soph HC = 3500
Varsity Asst = 2000
Soph Asst = 1500
Freshman HC = 1000

These are all of the paid coaches for CPS programs. Tough to build sustained programs with six paid coaches.

 

[guerinfbfan]

Ok I need someone from the suburban public sector to chime in...what's the stipend look like for suburban public districts?

 

[RichieRebel]

That was your takeaway there?

School busses. Paying bus drivers to run routes for 12 schools with 250 kids is more expensive than 6 schools with 500 kids. It's an example of the endless cost inefficiencies with the way the district is run. Not a primary driver, but an example.

Yes that’s my takeaway, busing is probably the one area that CPS is very cost efficient and that’s because of CTA. The other posters exameple of selective elem schools is a good point however it was only for the elem. students that lived outside of the boundary. Compared to suburbs, the rule use to be if students lived a mile or 2 away received bussing.

 

[RichieRebel]

Ok I need someone from the suburban public sector to chime in...what's the stipend look like for suburban public districts?

They’re all over the place HC 7-15, asst from 5-10. Depends on experience and the teacher contract. The biggest difference is the amount of positions funded.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

They’re all over the place HC 7-15, asst from 5-10. Depends on experience and the teacher contract. The biggest difference is the amount of positions funded.

Such a huge difference between CPS and what most HS football fans see as far as coaches in the program. Many suburban/private schools have more exclusive lower level coaches than CPS teams have in their entire programs. In many cases, the same coaches coach both varsity and the lower level teams...if a CPL school fields lower level teams at all. Combine that amount of time with the other responsibilities of CPL coaches, and you can see why so few teams build deep programs.