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Revised: Lake Zurich locker room incident took a dark turn

The way I see it:
  • "An athletic locker room as a player's safe haven" has no more validity than every other space in a school that warrants the most vigilant of adult supervision.
  • The line between hazing and bullying is so variable, vague and subject to personal interpretation that the 2 are realistically indistinguishable therefore both inappropriate.
  • If a particular team "tradition" can not stand up to adult scrutiny, it has no place in the school.
 
ramblinman said:
JCHILL can defend himself, but I don't see that he is condoning this kind of behavior. What I see him saying is that there's nothing wrong with hazing if it is not taken to the extreme.

I would hope, corey, that you can not only see the difference between, but also ALLOW FOR AND APPROVE OF, clean and light-hearted team building exercises that make kids step out of their comfort zones and hazing that involves bullying and dangerous/abhorrent/deviant behavior.

A problem with our society, whether it be on football teams, message boards, the office, state high school athletic associations, church men's club casino nights, etc., is our proclivity to take things to the extreme. Nobody is satisfied with what worked last year, last month, last week or yesterday. If we are doing something today, it has to be bigger and better than it was the last time we did it. If we want to make a point, we utilize extreme circumstances as examples to bolster our point.

So, corey, I ask you, is there a happy medium here that you can accept? Or are you going to double down and say that all hazing is bad and should be avoided/banned in all its possible versions?
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I have to agree here, with jc and ramb. these are two entirely separate issues.
in this particular case it will need to be determined whether it is/was hazing or bullying.
and absolutely two different ways to prosecute/law suits.

this is beginning to sound very similar to the tv show American crime.

either way the school and coaches should be held accountable. if found guilty.
crap, in 2011 Richards school officials made a statement by personally driving out to Boylan and suspending two starting athletes 1/2hour to the start of the game(qb & cb). for stealing(borrowing) an ipod so they could listen to music on the ride out there.
they could have simply waited until after the game and when they arrived back arrested the two individuals. but NO they chose to drive out and ruin the entire teams season. but they did the morally correct thing. and that was to show NO ONE is above the code of conduct rules.

you have to teach kids about repercussions for actions is the adult thing. you need to show them no one is above the conduct code. but, that needs to be defined. and you as the adult need to be in the for front of that responsibility.
 
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woody6 said:
The way I see it:
  • "An athletic locker room as a player's safe haven" has no more validity than every other space in a school that warrants the most vigilant of adult supervision.
  • The line between hazing and bullying is so variable, vague and subject to personal interpretation that the 2 are realistically indistinguishable therefore both inappropriate.
  • If a particular team "tradition" can not stand up to adult scrutiny, it has no place in the school.
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I'm not sure the last point is even true since many adults would have gone through hazing themselves and view possible dangerous situations as just tradition.

I served as a Risk Management Chairman and President of my fraternity, so I'm familiar with the seriousness of hazing as well as the frustration of how broad official hazing guidelines are. Things as harmless as scavenger hunts were included on the list if hazing activities, probably because at some point someone was put in a dangerous siruation on a scavenger hunt task gone too far and organizations attempt to Cover their rears. But attempting to ban such broad activities outright don't teach kids about using any judgement on what us a safe or appropriate social situation. After all, a scavenger hunt can and should be a harmless team-building activity.
So the organizations have an obligation to protect kids (especially high schools who oversee the well being of minors) and crack down on bad actors, but probably do the kids a disservice at times when the primary goal ends up being the organizations own liability coverage. There's certainly plenty alignment of interests in that regards, but not 100%
 
woody6 said:
The way I see it:
  • "An athletic locker room as a player's safe haven" has no more validity than every other space in a school that warrants the most vigilant of adult supervision.
  • The line between hazing and bullying is so variable, vague and subject to personal interpretation that the 2 are realistically indistinguishable therefore both inappropriate.
  • If a particular team "tradition" can not stand up to adult scrutiny, it has no place in the school.
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Woody6
Your comments are very good and appropriate. I agree about the adult scrutiny. Why aren't these so called hazing innocent egg hunts discussed in the public eye? We never hear about them until something goes wrong and the whistle is blown. Just because nobody says anything doesn't make it right. It only takes one kid with a pair to speak up. Apparently even then he can't get the support from the adults. Crazy.
 
JCHILLTOPPERS said:
well


can i boo this quote? or why is there no thumbs down button.

"pure bullying"

Bullying and hazing are two different words with two different meanings. Nothing like politically correctness to make us less intellectually accurate and mend two things into one for an agenda. wanting world peace and making the sophomore on varsity sing the fight song in his jock are mutually exclusive.

The modifier pure is the kicker.
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Don't use that old throwaway excuse, "political correctness", as justification for bad behavior. Exerting force upon someone in a weaker position is without justification.
 
corey90 said:
Damn it! MC63
I agree. Where we differed before you are spot on with this post. This is bullying at its core and somehow it's being accepted at this level. I find it very hard to believe none of the coaches knew this Hazing was going on. I never understood why the need to allow players to haze or bullying a team mate or anyone.
Again this day and age you have to be out of your mind to even think to allow this behavior.
Sick!
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Ohmigod!!! you agree with me? I guess there's a first for everything. Welcome aboard!
 
MC63 said:
Ohmigod!!! you agree with me? I guess there's a first for everything. Welcome aboard!
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Hahahaha! Relax MC63. Just because the guy agrees with you on a subject doesn't mean he will be taking warm showers with you till the wee hours of the morning. Hahaha!
 
A lot more on this situation will occur tonight at school board meeting.
 
Athletic director and Dean of students who also was assistant head coach both resigned but assume they didn't do so voluntarily
 
LakeCtyNewt said:
Athletic director and Dean of students who also was assistant head coach both resigned but assume they didn't do so voluntarily
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just now, prior to the meeting? Interesting. Will be interesting what is said tonight. Don't think it is over with, another shoe will probably be dropping....
 
Normdog said:
just now, prior to the meeting? Interesting. Will be interesting what is said tonight. Don't think it is over with, another shoe will probably be dropping....
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Several shoes and a few pairs of socks
 
Top attorney already hired.

As much as the LZ Blue Wall would wish...this is not going away.
 
Its not over for sure. Players being ineligible and potential post season bans are on the table from what we have been able to find out so far. This is FAR from over no matter how bad people within the LZ football group of parents want it to be. Culture is going to change there. It has to.
 
LakeCtyNewt said:
Its not over for sure. Players being ineligible and potential post season bans are on the table from what we have been able to find out so far. This is FAR from over no matter how bad people within the LZ football group of parents want it to be. Culture is going to change there. It has to.
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No place for this type of behavior in our schools. Parents and Administrators, Coaches want to look
the other way and act like this is no big deal. Well they deserve what they get. Apparently some resigned before being fired and it sounds like they
will have legal battles still coming.
 
Head Coach Dave Proffitt resigned - feel terrible for one of he good guys in our sport
 
News isn't going to get much better there. As I said before, if I am Fremd, I am cancelling the my contract.
 
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