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Revised: Lake Zurich locker room incident took a dark turn

Atomic sit-ups?
Elephant walk?
The Evanston Corn Dog?
The Tijuana Taxi Ride?
 
Pointless article, explains nothing. Can someone shed some light on this topic, or are we all to just make massive assumptions, or worse, die of boredom over a story never told?
 
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I think many of us can fill-in-the-blanks regarding this situation despite the lack of publicized details:
  • a hazing tradition with some unsavory components is passed down through a particular sport program
  • the coaches, occupied with normal pre or post practice matters in an office, do not have eyes/ears on the actual athlete locker room area (the rule, not the exception)
  • the "wrong" kid(s) become victimized during the behavior
  • a slow leak begins, containment is attempted, then it all comes out.
Not excusing the episode, just hypothesizing on the likely scenario.
 
I think everyone knows that I have been an ardent supporter of the Lake Zurich program over the years. I have had the utmost respect for its players and coaches and have admired their success.

This situation disgusts me to no end. From what my research has lead me to find this is more than just a random act of hazing. How anyone in their right mind can think that some of what these kids did is even remotely ok "boys being boys" stuff is just absurd.

The only thing worse than the crime - and yes very serious crimes were committed, is the cover up that ensues.

The LZ football parents decided to close ranks and refuse to assist in th investigation rather than try and restore the good name of this program.

The administration very quietly chose to let this take its course as opposed to enacting harsh punishment on those involved.

They should have never played the Fenwick game and instead left a group of very talented coaches to twist while this whole saga played out. I feel very sorry for those guys because they are good people put in a brutal position.

The one remaining question for all the parents, players, coaches, and administrators is who knew what and when did they know it?

The fact that two very good men in a Chad Beaver and Dave Proffitt have been left to twist in the wind while on "administrative leave," is a joke.

This was so poorly handled on so many fronts. This program is now very toxic. Not sure I'd want to coach here.
 
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mchsalumni said:
Pointless article, explains nothing. Can someone shed some light on this topic, or are we all to just make massive assumptions, or worse, die of boredom over a story never told?
Click to expand...

mchs:

If you think you are perplexed now, these questions will persist for years.

We'll understand the gravity of what occurred, but be left to our own devices when terms of the settlement become public.
 
I have a couple of co-workers whose kids played at LZ in years past (2008 - 2012 range) and they are still close with the program as are their now post college kids and they have been heartbroken over this mess

Where were the Senior Captains to put a stop to the despicable behavior? Bad Senior Captain leadership (IMO) and they allowed a great program and staff to be tainted and linked with this crapola.

What are the current player parents doing "blocking" Police access to their kids for investigations? What kind of example is that setting?

Just a shame.
 
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Voodoo,

The article claims this is a "long standing tradition". So what is this "tradition"? I don't think any type of "grotesque" behavior is acceptable, but what is really going on here? Traditional hazing, i.e. Scaring the crap out of someone or putting them in an uncomfortable but safe situation I think we may need more of to stop the "snowflake generation" from becoming even more dependent.

Voodoo Tatum 21 said:
I have a couple of co-workers whose kids played at LZ in years past (2008 - 2012 range) and they are still close with the program as are their now post college kids and they have been heartbroken over this mess

Where were the Senior Captains to put a stop to the despicable behavior? Bad Senior Captain leadership (IMO) and they allowed a great program and staff to be tainted and linked with this crapola.

What are the current player parents doing "blocking" Police access to their kids for investigations? What kind of example is that setting?

Just a shame.
Click to expand...
 
jwarigaku said:
Voodoo,

The article claims this is a "long standing tradition". So what is this "tradition"? I don't think any type of "grotesque" behavior is acceptable, but what is really going on here? Traditional hazing, i.e. Scaring the crap out of someone or putting them in an uncomfortable but safe situation I think we may need more of to stop the "snowflake generation" from becoming even more dependent.
Click to expand...

From my understanding there were several very clean traditions that warped this year into some alleged very deviant (bad Fraternity type) hazing (I did not ask for specifics but the parents I know are aware of the alleged details and say it is too disgusting to openly discuss) . The past players when they found out the details of what happened were horrified

I hear what you are saying in todays world where one cross eyed look sends people running for their safe place,... but From my understanding... this is not a "snowflake" "suck it up buttercup" event..
 
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Voo Doo described this pretty spot on.

Right or wrong hazing in some sort has happened here for a while but from everyone I've talked to nothing yet this level.

Since they are minors I won't call out the perps but there is no way these kids should be playing football ever again let alone for LZ.

The fact that parents have decided to prevent the police from investigating this is a much more disturbing and larger issue.

Some of the emails our paper received from parents that wanted to speak up but were threatened and their kids were threatened if they did is beyond insane.
 
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MC63,

Are you saying that sending someone for a "left handed smoke shifter" "Champaign coasters" or "fryer fines" or taking someone "snipe hunting" for example is bullying? It certainly can be embarrassing when the person the joke was being play on figures out they've been duped, but learning to laugh at yourself is a needed part of growing up.

Now if this hazing involved deviant behavior it's not acceptable, but much like addiction issues, you can't address the problem until you're willing to talk about it. Parents can certainly try to block these efforts but if there is truly a smoking gun to the egregious crimes some are inferring here, then the district attorney needs to get rolling with Summons to appear and a grand jury needs to be assembled to determine if charges need to be brought.

MC63 said:
Hazing of any sort is pure bullying -- there is no excuse for it.
Click to expand...
 
Snipe Hunting!! Classic!!

Don't forget about Cow Tipping!! Probably not as much of that in the city and near suburbs though.
 
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The information coming out on this has been slow and painful thanks to great coverup by LZ. "The Blue Wall" has closed ranks in the hopes that this will all go away.

But with the hiring of the attorney who represented the victims at Maine West, it will be just a matter of time before all the ugly information is released. And when it does, the media and that includes the TV media, will swarm.I saw it before when we had the hazing incident at Stevenson. There were TV crews everywhere.

If I was Fremd, who opens their season at home against Lake Zurich next year, I would be cancelling that contract in a heartbeat.The stink will be so bad from Lake Zurich, I don't think Fremd could wash it off.

My hope is that this "Blue Wall" comes crashing down on all the people who has chosen to look the other way to protect a damn football program.
 
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If the actions that I have heard about are true I have no idea how parents aren't suing and how people haven't gotten fired. What the $)&/ were those kids thinking!!!!
 
MS4EVER said:
If the actions that I have heard about are true I have no idea how parents aren't suing and how people haven't gotten fired. What the $)&/ were those kids thinking!!!!
Click to expand...

Lawsuits are coming. The problem now is since the police dept didn't find any criminal wrong doing how do or can you fire anyone? They don't exactly have cause anymore and I'm not sure they can keep them suspended.

A real culture problem exists. I agree with Quags if I'm Fremd or Montini I'm dropping LZ off the schedule immediately
 
EdgyTim said:
Added a story from the Daily Herald see below.

Just absolutely amazed at the mindset and overall behavior in this school district regarding this incident.

Tribune: Lake Zurich locker room incident took a dark turn

Daily Herald: Sex abuse investigation part of hazing incident
Click to expand...

Why in the world would a school allow anything even close to this behavior? It boggles my mind
this is what we are teaching in HS. This is a good
community with educated people. Unbelievable.
 
MC63 said:
Hazing of any sort is pure bullying -- there is no excuse for it.
Click to expand...

Damn it! MC63
I agree. Where we differed before you are spot on with this post. This is bullying at its core and somehow it's being accepted at this level. I find it very hard to believe none of the coaches knew this Hazing was going on. I never understood why the need to allow players to haze or bullying a team mate or anyone.
Again this day and age you have to be out of your mind to even think to allow this behavior.
Sick!
 
LakeCtyNewt said:
Lawsuits are coming. The problem now is since the police dept didn't find any criminal wrong doing how do or can you fire anyone? They don't exactly have cause anymore and I'm not sure they can keep them suspended.

A real culture problem exists. I agree with Quags if I'm Fremd or Montini I'm dropping LZ off the schedule immediately
Click to expand...

Newt
You hit this on the head. I see big legal problems coming. Someone will come forward past or present. Give it a week and will hear all the sick crap. This story has played out before.
 
LakeCtyNewt said:
Lawsuits are coming. The problem now is since the police dept didn't find any criminal wrong doing how do or can you fire anyone? They don't exactly have cause anymore and I'm not sure they can keep them suspended.

A real culture problem exists. I agree with Quags if I'm Fremd or Montini I'm dropping LZ off the schedule immediately
Click to expand...

well
MC63 said:
Hazing of any sort is pure bullying -- there is no excuse for it.
Click to expand...

can i boo this quote? or why is there no thumbs down button.

"pure bullying"

Bullying and hazing are two different words with two different meanings. Nothing like politically correctness to make us less intellectually accurate and mend two things into one for an agenda. wanting world peace and making the sophomore on varsity sing the fight song in his jock are mutually exclusive.

The modifier pure is the kicker.
 
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stripes13 said:
You know what's annoying? Blaming the concept of "political correctness" for anything and everything.
Click to expand...

More annoying is being general and not specific.

There are plenty of times when one should be politically correct.

But referring to all types of hazing as pure bullying is taking an en vogue notion and applying it to show you care about people.

I've prosecuted caseso of pure bullying. It's sick. I've also been hazed, and during that time was having the time of my life.

I don't know what happened at LZ, but it sounds like it was bad. Hazing is hazing. Bullying is bullying. There is a reason languages have different words.

Calling all forms of hazing pure bullying is a way to excasbrrsate problems. For the same reason we would be a far less racist country if we were not so afraid to talk about race. The reason we are afraid is because the moment we do, we are racists. The moment someone openly says hazing is ok, they are a bully, and that is why we generalize, become "correct," and spiral.

Mc63 is all for world peace, but can't figure out that it's difficult to arrive at it. That's why his political answers are so simple, genaral, and mostly, notional.
 
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JCHILLTOPPERS said:
More annoying is being general and not specific.

There are plenty of times when one should be politically correct.

But referring to all types of hazing as pure bullying is taking an en vogue notion and applying it to show you care about people.

I've prosecuted caseso of pure bullying. It's sick. I've also been hazed, and during that time was having the time of my life.

I don't know what happened at LZ, but it sounds like it was bad. Hazing is hazing. Bullying is bullying. There is a reason languages have different words.

Calling all forms of hazing pure bullying is a way to excasbrrsate problems. For the same reason we would be a far less racist country if we were not so afraid to talk about race. The reason we are afraid is because the moment we do, we are racists. The moment someone openly says hazing is ok, they are a bully, and that is why we generalize, become "correct," and spiral.

Mc63 is all for world peace, but can't figure out that it's difficult to arrive at it. That's why his political answers are so simple, genaral, and mostly, notional.
Click to expand...

JC
This is the wrong time to talk about word smithing and trying to be politically correct. I don't care if it's hazing or bullying it's stupid and should never be allowed in any school. Call it whatever you want the fact is it's ignorant and any parent, coach, school worth a damn would never allow such behavior.
What does hazing or bullying have to do with being a good team or teammate? Explain how this behavior brings the team closer. I bet the kid being bullied or hazed doesn't feel very much like a part of the team. Disgusting and any adult who thinks this behavior is acceptable needs their head examined.
 
Voodoo Tatum 21 said:
Snipe Hunting!! Classic!!

Don't forget about Cow Tipping!! Probably not as much of that in the city and near suburbs though.
Click to expand...

I was arrested for Cow Tipping while pledging a frat in college...NIU was surrounded by farms and it was a pretty common thing to make pledges do(at least circa 1982)..except in our case the cows went berserk and trampled a couple of acres of corn just before it was about to be harvested.
 
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kpjasion said:
I was arrested for Cow Tipping while pledging a frat in college...NIU was surrounded by farms and it was a pretty common thing to make pledges do(at least circa 1982)..except in our case the cows went berserk and trampled a couple of acres of corn just before it was about to be harvested.
Click to expand...

Omg that is an awesome story!! Too funny.
 
kpjasion said:
I was arrested for Cow Tipping while pledging a frat in college...NIU was surrounded by farms and it was a pretty common thing to make pledges do(at least circa 1982)..except in our case the cows went berserk and trampled a couple of acres of corn just before it was about to be harvested.
Click to expand...

It's too early for post if the year for 2017 but damn this is a winner. Anyone who gets busted for cow tipping gets my utmost admiration
 
LakeCtyNewt said:
Lawsuits are coming. The problem now is since the police dept didn't find any criminal wrong doing how do or can you fire anyone? They don't exactly have cause anymore and I'm not sure they can keep them suspended.

A real culture problem exists. I agree with Quags if I'm Fremd or Montini I'm dropping LZ off the schedule immediately
Click to expand...

If Montini drops LZ, I want them to set up a home and home with Grand Rapids West Catholic in MI.

Wassup
 
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corey90 said:
JC
This is the wrong time to talk about word smithing and trying to be politically correct. I don't care if it's hazing or bullying it's stupid and should never be allowed in any school. Call it whatever you want the fact is it's ignorant and any parent, coach, school worth a damn would never allow such behavior.
What does hazing or bullying have to do with being a good team or teammate? Explain how this behavior brings the team closer. I bet the kid being bullied or hazed doesn't feel very much like a part of the team. Disgusting and any adult who thinks this behavior is acceptable needs their head examined.
Click to expand...

JCHILL can defend himself, but I don't see that he is condoning this kind of behavior. What I see him saying is that there's nothing wrong with hazing if it is not taken to the extreme.

I would hope, corey, that you can not only see the difference between, but also ALLOW FOR AND APPROVE OF, clean and light-hearted team building exercises that make kids step out of their comfort zones and hazing that involves bullying and dangerous/abhorrent/deviant behavior.

A problem with our society, whether it be on football teams, message boards, the office, state high school athletic associations, church men's club casino nights, etc., is our proclivity to take things to the extreme. Nobody is satisfied with what worked last year, last month, last week or yesterday. If we are doing something today, it has to be bigger and better than it was the last time we did it. If we want to make a point, we utilize extreme circumstances as examples to bolster our point.

So, corey, I ask you, is there a happy medium here that you can accept? Or are you going to double down and say that all hazing is bad and should be avoided/banned in all its possible versions?
 
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ramblinman said:
JCHILL can defend himself, but I don't see that he is condoning this kind of behavior. What I see him saying is that there's nothing wrong with hazing if it is not taken to the extreme.

I would hope, corey, that you can not only see the difference between, but also ALLOW FOR AND APPROVE OF, clean and light-hearted team building exercises that make kids step out of their comfort zones and hazing that involves bullying and dangerous/abhorrent/deviant behavior.

A problem with our society, whether it be on football teams, message boards, the office, state high school athletic associations, church men's club casino nights, etc., is our proclivity to take things to the extreme. Nobody is satisfied with what worked last year, last month, last week or yesterday. If we are doing something today, it has to be bigger and better than it was the last time we did it. If we want to make a point, we utilize extreme circumstances as examples to bolster our point.

So, corey, I ask you, is there a happy medium here that you can accept? Or are you going to double down and say that all hazing is bad and should be avoided/banned in all its possible versions?
Click to expand...

I guess I need to understand in what situation hazing is constructive in teaching our kids?
 
Corey, I'm with you on this. Whether it falls in the hazing or bullying bucket, neither needs to or should exist..especially in HS and college. Expecting kids to know what the boundaries are and not to cross them is giving them more credit than they deserve. In most cases, hazing has no benefit and usually has a negative outcome. Something as seemingly simple and innocent as cow tipping, while it provides a good laugh, some poor farmer lost a shit ton of money because his crop was damaged. There is no need to mention the dangers alcohol play in hazing. A frat, whose name will not be mentioned, once made pledges stay awake for 24 hours, which is not that hard and dangerous until the pledge drove home, fell asleep at the wheel and had a bad auto accident.

I have no problems with frats, but seems ridiculous pledges have to do a bunch of BS just to have friends or feel like they belong to something.
 
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Guys

This is far more serious than boys being boys hazing. This is criminal abuse at LZ not your garden variety hazing.

Now if anyone here thinks that type of activity is necessary to get a team fired up for a game or build team unity, you would be as dumbfoundingly dumb as the students and administrators that allowed this to happen at LZ.
 
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LakeCtyNewt said:
Guys

This is far more serious than boys being boys hazing. This is criminal abuse at LZ not your garden variety hazing.

Now if anyone here thinks that type of activity is necessary to get a team fired up for a game or build team unity, you would be as dumbfoundingly dumb as the students and administrators that allowed this to happen at LZ.
Click to expand...

So will anything ever come of it?
 
I do not post very often but always am on this blog to check things out. When it comes to hazing/bulllying, there is a huge difference.

I played both HS and college football. I was hazed coming into high school as well as college. Things like having to carry the dummies, sing songs or get your head shaved is part of the excepting process or welcome to the team. Can this or will this make some uncomfortable, sure. But it is a harmless form of hazing.

Some of the posters here are not able to disassociate harmless hazing from bulllying.

I do not know what happened at LZ, but it seems to have crossed that line of harmless hazing and gone to bulllying. I hate it for the kids that have been bullied and personal believe that the adults should be help accountable for allowing the bulllying to happen.

Our society has become to PC when it comes to things. There is a big difference between common sense and saying that no hazing should be allowed.

Just my two cents. I appreciate all the thoughts that people post here and appreciate Tim for giving us this format.


Happy New Year....
 
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I know what happened at LZ (or at least a portion of it), what I know combined with the redacted report that was released was striking in one aspect. That it sounds a lot like Penn State in how there was a real break down in adult leadership and accountability to do the right thing. You have an initial despicable act(s), but, then the turning a if not willful, then overt blind eye to it by the "adults".

I want to be clear, while this incident (act) did not come close to the despicable and utterly evil acts perpetrated by Sandusky, but, it still was shameful and not good. My point comparing PS to LZ is that adults knew something was not quite right in both cases, but, chose to not really pursue it or were at best slow to question anything. The adult employee that first saw the act knew "that's wrong".

The police report describes the incident vaguely, with much of the account blacked out. It says that on Oct. 27, an unnamed employee of the high school heard loud music and a chant of "state, state, state" coming from the locker room and reluctantly decided to see what was going on.

"He wanted the players to have their space and felt that an athletic locker room is a player's safe haven so he wasn't going to check the locker room," the report says. "He got about halfway up the stairs and decided to turn around and check on them anyway."

The employee then allegedly witnessed an act that police blacked out on the report.

"I asked (redacted) if he said anything to anyone in the locker room," Frey wrote. "He stated he said something to the effect of 'That's wrong,' but no one could hear him because of the music. He then left the locker room and returned upstairs."

That is from the Trib article.

Then in the Daily Herald article it talks about the Dean of Students (and asst. FB coach) learning a day later about the incident and the AD and HC learning about it six days later. The timeline does not add up.

So piecing together the different accounts published, and unpublished it appears that a low level employee saw the act, was too intimidated to really act, reported it to a higher authority, the DOS, the next day, the DOS (who happened to be a coach) did not elevate it for an additional 5 days or do anything about it. He was in a position of authority and blew it off for 5 days.

Now you have this kid(s) who had an act(s) perpetrated on them that would be highly embarrassing to talk about publicly. Of course the kids parents are saying "please keep his name out of it" they are trying to protect their kid(s), especially after the adults in positions of authority refused to.

Teenage kids are teenage kids, they do stupid stuff, sometimes incredibly stupid stuff. It is the coaches and adults in the metaphorical "room" responsibility to be a leader, authority and teach accountability. That is what a big part of that "coach" title is about.

This is probably far from over at LZ, a lawsuit will likely be filed, eventually a couple of these adults are going to lose their jobs and its not fully inconceivable that LZ not have FB for a year or two, which would be a real crap sandwich for any player that had nothing to do with this. the uproar from this is going to build.

And to follow on bcc's thoughts, harmless hazing is carrying dummies out to practice or getting their head shaved (at college level), what happened here is far beyond that. A crime was probably committed here, the reason charges are not filled is victim is unwilling to talk about it. Not that it wasn't criminal, but, that they can't get anyone to go on record to prove it.
 
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