Does anyone know how the CCL will look next season? I believe the way it’s set up is on a 2 year cycle, skipping the Covid year and moving 1 team up and down from each conference.
CCL Shuffle
- Thread starter MCCaravan6410
- Start date
I haven’t seen any proposals. The new additions have to be accounted for first, which will bring the total to 25.
So you could see five divisions of five, which I see as logistically very unlikely.
I think they will go with five different divisions having four teams and a sixth division with five teams. I would think either the best or worst division would have five.
outside the box idea is to have four divisions of four teams and the bottom 9 are pooled into one division to avoid terrible crossovers like Leo vs Marist and ACC vs Rita.
I really don’t think they will keep the current structure and just have promotion/relegation because you have to insert ACC on a different tier than IC and St Francis. So you really kind of have to start fresh.
I’m told meeting will take place in the near future - probably right after conclusion of regular season.
Last time, they realigned all divisions except the Blue and there’s no guarantee that wholesale changes will be made across the board this time around, either.
With 25 programs, I’ve heard it’s possible they’ll go with 5 divisions of 4 teams while the Red could have 5 teams - keeping with the 6 division format.
Personally, I’d like to see 5 divisions of 5 but not sure that’s realistic.
Win/loss record, school enrollment and program head count will still be utilized to help comprise most of it but I think there will still be some subjectivity at the end of the day - meaning if something doesn’t look right using the formula or there’s too many objections then they’ll probably go with some sort of consensus.
Since you’re about to ask, here’s my 5 divisions of 5, purely based on entertainment…
Loyola
Mt Carmel
Brother Rice
Marist
St Rita
Notre Dame
Benet
Fenwick
Carmel Catholic
St Patrick
Joliet Catholic
Nazareth
Providence
Montini
ICC Prep
St Ignatius
St Francis
St Laurence
Marmion
St Viator
Marian Catholic
De La Salle
DePaul Prep
Aurora Catholic
Leo
Focusing on Rita and if things are similar to these last two years, I suspect Rita in Blue while Marist or BR to Green. Same goes for other divisions. Last place team moves down while first place team in lower division moves up.
I just want Marmion out of that setup to have the division of Saints.
One reason for the Pope to declare sainthood for Blessed Don Columba Marmion.
LA - MC - BR - Rita - PC - FW
ND - CoM - SP - JCA - SV - Marist - Marian
BA - Mont - IC - Naz - SF - Marm
SL - Ign - DLS - DeP - ACC - Leo
Who says no?
Fenwick wants to say no, and they would fit great in either the ESCC division or the west burbs division... but they love those old CCL rivals, just as long as they don't have to play too many of them. It's an odd number of teams, but solved by crossovers, so I'd let Fenwick pick which division they want.
PC could go possibly to ESCC division. Marist could go "Blue" division. ACC could go with the west burbs schools. Marian could go to that 4th division. Is strength the most important factor? Geography?
I'd love to see that cluster of west burbs schools knock heads every week. So many friends and frenemies between most of those matchups.
ND - CoM - SP - JCA - SV - Marist - Marian
BA - Mont - IC - Naz - SF - Marm
SL - Ign - DLS - DeP - ACC - Leo
Who says no?
Fenwick wants to say no, and they would fit great in either the ESCC division or the west burbs division... but they love those old CCL rivals, just as long as they don't have to play too many of them. It's an odd number of teams, but solved by crossovers, so I'd let Fenwick pick which division they want.
PC could go possibly to ESCC division. Marist could go "Blue" division. ACC could go with the west burbs schools. Marian could go to that 4th division. Is strength the most important factor? Geography?
I'd love to see that cluster of west burbs schools knock heads every week. So many friends and frenemies between most of those matchups.
I’ll bet everyone who is considered the 5th and 6th team in each division say no.
I don’t believe we will ever see them go back to a division like that top one. Every coach in the old Blue division of the CCL was looking for a change and the merger with the ESCC gave them that opportunity. The goal of the current divisions is to qualify as many teams for the playoffs as possible. These divisions would automatically eliminate 1-2 teams in a division from the playoffs almost every year.
I get it. I just really dislike it. 4 team divisions never sat well with me. With all the crossovers, every team plays a schedule that is very similar to the schedule in my divisions anyway.
This year LA plays SR BR FW Marist PC SP MC.
In my divisions, LA plays SR BR FW PC MC and 2 crossovers. Give them Marist and BA. Same schedule.
This year St. Pat’s plays ND MCC Marian SR CoM FW LA SV (and Ign in Wk 1 non-conf).
In my divisions, SP plays ND Marian JCA Marist CoM SV and one crossover.
Is there really a difference?
This year LA plays SR BR FW Marist PC SP MC.
In my divisions, LA plays SR BR FW PC MC and 2 crossovers. Give them Marist and BA. Same schedule.
This year St. Pat’s plays ND MCC Marian SR CoM FW LA SV (and Ign in Wk 1 non-conf).
In my divisions, SP plays ND Marian JCA Marist CoM SV and one crossover.
Is there really a difference?
For MC, LA, BR & SR… no there is no difference. Probably the same for the top 3 teams in each division you outlined. Where you get the pushback is the next 2-3 teams in the division. For PC & Fenwick in your top division you’re now adding all 4 of MC, LA, BR & SR to their schedules. How many years do you believe Fenwick would be favored in any of those games? That is where I believe the biggest difference lays, not with the top 3-4 teams in a division, but with the 5-6 team in the division.
Here's what very rough geographically focused divisions might look like:
Loyola, Carmel Catholic, Notre Dame, Viator, Pat's
Ignatius, DLS, Fenwick, Naz, Montini,
MC, BR, SR, Marist, PC
JCA, Benet, SF, IC, SL
Marmion, ACC, De Paul Prep, Leo, Marian Catholic, Leo
Yes, I realize that Loyola currently doesn't belong competitively with the others in their division, but I do like Loyola and ND together. Yes, I realize the last division is a bit of a hodge podge, but I do like ACC and Marmion together.
I really do like that southside division with PC thrown in for good measure. I also really like that 4th division of west and sw suburban schools. I like Fenwick, Naz, and Montini in the same division. Like Iggy and Fenwick together as well.
Naz and Montini and closer to Benet, IC and SF than anyone. Those 5 schools can probably make a max trip 20 minutes tops.
Geographically, Naz is closer to DLS and St. Laurence than it is to SF and closer to Fenwick than it is to Montini.
I do realize, though, that we measure distance in Chicago according to driving time.
Idk the history or anything like that about the CCL, but I absolutely love the 4-team divisions!!
I too like the Southside Division, however it feels weird not having Loyola in what would be considered the toughest division. Loyola is one of , if not the, premier program of the CCL over the past 8-10 years, they deserve to be in the top division.
If these divisions did play out like you listed, MC should be on the phone to LA the moment it’s announced to schedule that game as a non conference game week 1 or 2 in perpetuity. I hated the years they didn’t play SR, don’t let the same thing happen with LA
I know this is all spitballing, but Holecek would lose his mind if this was LA's Conf, and rightfully so, outside of the much better travel times. I think you would also need to get PC and JCA in he same division. PC is just starting to build up some steam, getting put in a Conf with MC, BR, SR and Marist would stop that momentum. But if they would truly consider a 5 team division, I'd rather JCA over PC.
Splitting hairs on some of them by a mile or so. But no way Naz is closer to Fenwick or their home field than Montini.
You are most certainly correct. Fact is, I envy the southside Catholic schools for the local rivalries they have with each other. When I was at Loyola, our biggest somewhat local Catholic school rivalry was Gordon Tech and its then 2700 boys. Those days are long gone. Our biggest rival now is New Trier, but that's not a conference rival. I couldn't even tell you who our biggest conference rival is now. Maybe Iggy because of the Jesuit connection.
What other Catholic schools does Loyola compete with for students? Besides Regina, Woodlands, Northridge Prep and The Willows, every single school in my proposed Loyola division in my original post, plus Ignatius and De Paul Prep.
I've been Jonesin for years for Loyola to be in a conference with NDCP and to become healthy rivals with them. I know they already have a strong rivalry with Pat's, but they're closer to Loyola than they are to Pat's
Good OL’ Weber closing too stopped a rivalry. But ND has been consistent and with their new coach I see Pats becoming that way sooner then later. LA has a monster roster. 120 players...it’s a great compliment to the school and programs success that so many players want to be a part of it. What I think will happen soon is some of these kids will say “Do I want to ride the bench at LA, or go to Pats or ND and play?” And the more successful they get the more likely it will happen. Same thing happened to MC and Rita when they were carrying large rosters...they eventually said “I can probably play at BR or Marist” and hence the large and competitive South Side rivalries we have now.
Thought it would be fun to chime in on this. I tried to keep the current divisions but also considered parity within the division.
Blue:
Loyola Academy
Mount Carmel
Brother Rice
Marist
St. Rita
Green:
Notre Dame
Joliet Catholic
Providence Catholic
Fenwick
Nazareth Academy
White:
St. Ignatius
St. Francis
Benet Academy
Montini
ICCP
Purple:
St. Laurence
St. Patrick
Carmel Catholic
Marmion Academy
St. Viator
Red:
De La Salle
Marian Catholic
Depaul Prep
Leo
ACC
Blue: Murderers' Row
Green: Hardest division to fill out. I think some of these teams could easily be interchanged with teams in the White. Joliet Catholic would be the team to beat in this division.
White: Some of these teams could probably be up in the Green Division, but it's a good entry spot for ICCP and St. Francis. Allows the new teams to dip their feet in the water to see where they fit and remain competitive in their division. Montini and Benet have had a few down years and can quickly reload in this more balanced division.
Purple: Adding St. Laurence and Marmion to an already reasonably balanced division.
Red: This division feels like it has the most parity, and I could see maybe two of these teams making the playoffs each year among a division that hasn't seen the playoffs often. De La Salle hasn't beaten a division opponent since 2018, and it hasn't necessarily been close these last two years; they could rebuild the program in this division.
Blue:
Loyola Academy
Mount Carmel
Brother Rice
Marist
St. Rita
Green:
Notre Dame
Joliet Catholic
Providence Catholic
Fenwick
Nazareth Academy
White:
St. Ignatius
St. Francis
Benet Academy
Montini
ICCP
Purple:
St. Laurence
St. Patrick
Carmel Catholic
Marmion Academy
St. Viator
Red:
De La Salle
Marian Catholic
Depaul Prep
Leo
ACC
Blue: Murderers' Row
Green: Hardest division to fill out. I think some of these teams could easily be interchanged with teams in the White. Joliet Catholic would be the team to beat in this division.
White: Some of these teams could probably be up in the Green Division, but it's a good entry spot for ICCP and St. Francis. Allows the new teams to dip their feet in the water to see where they fit and remain competitive in their division. Montini and Benet have had a few down years and can quickly reload in this more balanced division.
Purple: Adding St. Laurence and Marmion to an already reasonably balanced division.
Red: This division feels like it has the most parity, and I could see maybe two of these teams making the playoffs each year among a division that hasn't seen the playoffs often. De La Salle hasn't beaten a division opponent since 2018, and it hasn't necessarily been close these last two years; they could rebuild the program in this division.
You are already starting to see this from schools on the NW side. Kids are realizing that Loyola doesn’t come out and recruit these schools. They haven’t really in years and obviously don’t need too. Kids along with their families see the success but would rather go play and see the field at other high schools.
I'd love to see Loyola and JCA go at it every year. They could put JC in the Blue. I bet that they would welcome the challenge.
Oct. 23 has been circled all year for me. I think MC will decimate the Ramblers.
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There are /2 teams in the league this year and after 7 weeks 19 of 22 had three or more wins.
That means 86 pct. Of the league can be talking playoffs at least through week 8.
In order to match that stat in an 8 team conference, 7 of the 8 would need to have at least 3 wins through 7 weeks.
By my unofficial count there are 14 8-team leagues this year in the ihsa playoff battle and zero have 7 teams with at least 3 wins.
That is why the 4 team league works. In a 6 team league odds are decent that’s two teams will go 0-5 and 1-4 in league play snd with four non league games the likelihood is at least 2 of 6 not getting to 5 wins each year in each league.
That is why I m guessing there will still be 6 divisions as many have guessed already. The four team division has proven in its short history to maximize b playoff opportunities.the league would be nuts to give that up.
Right. And that’s the day they can finally circle the 23rd. It’s nuanced, people! Gah!
MC's second team could beat Loyola.s first.
I thought St. Rita and JCA had a good thing going. But JCA didn’t want to renew the contract. LA May be a little too big for JCA to play every year. On good years JCA can play with anyone. But on years they have to reload LA might be too much. When LA reloads it’s not the same when the rest of us get hit hard by graduation. The just bring in Patton’s 3rd Army.
I’m sure you’re old enough to remember the 80’s-90’s ND/LA used to play week 2 every year. LA definitely dominated the series but there were some great games. I think it’s a rivalry that could be hotter than the SP/ND rivalry eventually if it got going. We need to raise our level of play to be able to compete with LA. I believe by playing them every year we would attract kids that would love to be a part of a rivalry like that.
There’s a school of thought around ND that loathes the idea of playing up like that but I think there’s a stronger group that would love to compete there and beat some of the royalty. A rising tide lifts all boats. I’m definitely in the camp of wanting to play at the highest level. I’m not in charge and never will be but I hope to see us playing the best of the best every week and being successful.
Might be a good idea to cancel. Think about the safety of the kids.
Starting to see this? How long has Loyola been really good? Pick your year, but don't make it any more recent than 2006 when Holecek arrived (even though they were playoff qualifiers in the three seasons prior to that).
I'd like to think those nw side boys would have caught on a lot sooner than they have if, in fact, it's true that they are "starting" to see that they will get a chance to play at other schools.
Maybe you are right and nw side kids are starting to realize that they will see more playing time elsewhere. But then wouldn't it stand to reason that Loyola's squads should be diminishing as a result?
Or maybe you are wrong. Maybe Loyola's squads are as big as they have ever been because kids want to be part of a perennially high achieving program regardless of how much playing time they get. Maybe they want to be able to say that they won the toughest CCL division or advanced far in the playoffs.
And maybe, just maybe, those smart nw side boys who would start for other teams will realize that, as second or third teamers at LA, they will see plenty of playing time as Loyola often builds first half leads like they did today. Would you rather start and be pummeled or see plenty of action as a second teamer and come out on top?
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I'm just hoping MC doesn't lose too badly on live TV affecting their psyche for the playoffs.
Hearing 2023-24 divisions and schedules will be determined/announced very, very soon.
Will be 6 divisions of 4. The formula (conference W/L, enrollment, program head count) and AD input/projection was considered.
Will be 6 divisions of 4. The formula (conference W/L, enrollment, program head count) and AD input/projection was considered.
There are 22 schools playing football currently. Three (IC, ACC, & St. Francis) are joining for a total of 25. So will one division have five teams am I missing something obvious?
