Two referee questions from plays from games this weekend

[Beltbuckletogoalpost]

I have two questions for how this was handled by referees this weekend. The first is a coach calling a timeout with no timeouts left. The referee blew the whistle before realizing they had zero left. It interrupted a 2 point conversion play. The referee said it was an inadvertent whistle and there was no penalty. I figured calling a timeout you don't have would be a penalty like a technical in basketball.

Second, there was a first down conversion late in a game on 4th down. It was close, so there was a measurement. The offense celebrated excessively and was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. The stands were arguing that it should be 1st and 25 since it is a deadball penalty, the play results in a first down and then is penalized 15 yards from that spot for 1st and 25. The referees gave the first down, back them up 15 yards and reset the chains. So it was 1st and ten further back then the original chains.

I'm not an official, but both of these seemed strange to me. Does anyone know the rules?

 

[King MJ]

I have two questions for how this was handled by referees this weekend. The first is a coach calling a timeout with no timeouts left. The referee blew the whistle before realizing they had zero left. It interrupted a 2 point conversion play. The referee said it was an inadvertent whistle and there was no penalty. I figured calling a timeout you don't have would be a penalty like a technical in basketball.

Second, there was a first down conversion late in a game on 4th down. It was close, so there was a measurement. The offense celebrated excessively and was flagged for unsportsmanlike conduct. The stands were arguing that it should be 1st and 25 since it is a deadball penalty, the play results in a first down and then is penalized 15 yards from that spot for 1st and 25. The referees gave the first down, back them up 15 yards and reset the chains. So it was 1st and ten further back then the original chains.

I'm not an official, but both of these seemed strange to me. Does anyone know the rules?

The 2nd ruling is 100% correct. Here is a link to an example. https://www.footballzebras.com/2016...dinarily the case,then the down is determined.)

For the first example, it's a bit more complicated. unlike basketball, there is no penalty for calling a timeout you don't have, it just should be be acknowledged.

As for the inadvertent whistle, it depends on when the whistle occurred.

 

[jwarigaku]

I’d love to hear more about the reasoning as to why no ruffing the punter penalty was called on Iowa last night when the punters plant leg was collapsed and the ball not touched. Referee said a rugby style punter is afforded no protection? I went to the rule book and everything I found said provided the kicker is lined up in excess of 7 yards in the backfield and the formation is that which expresses kicking the kicker is protected. What am I missing?

 

[King MJ]

I’d love to hear more about the reasoning as to why no ruffing the punter penalty was called on Iowa last night when the punters plant leg was collapsed and the ball not touched. Referee said a rugby style punter is afforded no protection? I went to the rule book and everything I found said provided the kicker is lined up in excess of 7 yards in the backfield and the formation is that which expresses kicking the kicker is protected. What am I missing?

I didn't see the play and am not 100% sure on the college rule here.

But in high school, kickers only get protection within the tackle box. If they are outside, there won't be a flag unless the hit is VERY late.

 

[Chief321]

I’d love to hear more about the reasoning as to why no ruffing the punter penalty was called on Iowa last night when the punters plant leg was collapsed and the ball not touched. Referee said a rugby style punter is afforded no protection? I went to the rule book and everything I found said provided the kicker is lined up in excess of 7 yards in the backfield and the formation is that which expresses kicking the kicker is protected. What am I missing?

New rule in 2023 in NCAA, punter doesn’t have the same protection if they’re leaving their original position laterally or the ball goes over their head. They’re still defenseless in terms of tgt but not roughing

 

[jwarigaku]

New rule in 2023 in NCAA, punter doesn’t have the same protection if they’re leaving their original position laterally or the ball goes over their head. They’re still defenseless in terms of tgt but not roughing

Chief,
Appreciate the clarification. Certainly changes the appeal of rugby style punting a bit.

 

[jha618]

New rule in 2023 in NCAA, punter doesn’t have the same protection if they’re leaving their original position laterally or the ball goes over their head. They’re still defenseless in terms of tgt but not roughing

The mizzou rule. I believe it cost them a game last year.

 

[PowerI66]

I didn't see the play and am not 100% sure on the college rule here.

But in high school, kickers only get protection within the tackle box. If they are outside, there won't be a flag unless the hit is VERY late.

Interesting. In the Batavia v SCN game the punter missed the snap, ran to the sideline, and punted it on the run right before he got it. There was a penalty for roughing the kicker.

 

[4Afan]

I’d love to hear more about the reasoning as to why no ruffing the punter penalty was called on Iowa last night when the punters plant leg was collapsed and the ball not touched. Referee said a rugby style punter is afforded no protection? I went to the rule book and everything I found said provided the kicker is lined up in excess of 7 yards in the backfield and the formation is that which expresses kicking the kicker is protected. What am I missing?

As others have mentioned, if a rugby style kicker leaves the tackle box he is no longer protected by standard roughing rules. Also, I happened to be watching the game at that time and it was ruled the Iowa defender was blocked into the punter.

 

[King MJ]

Interesting. In the Batavia v SCN game the punter missed the snap, ran to the sideline, and punted it on the run right before he got it. There was a penalty for roughing the kicker.

To be clear, if you hit the kicker well after after the ball is away, there is still a penalty, just like roughing the passer.

However, if you dive at the kicker and hit one of his legs as he is kicking, then this is where pocket protection applied.

You can't cold cock a kicker after the ball in gone, even if he is outside the tackle box.

 

[PowerI66]

To be clear, if you hit the kicker well after after the ball is away, there is still a penalty, just like roughing the passer.

However, if you dive at the kicker and hit one of his legs as he is kicking, then this is where pocket protection applied.

You can't cold cock a kicker after the ball in gone, even if he is outside the tackle box.

It wasn't, but I appreciate the clarification!

 

[dieter]

There is no high school rule that changes roughing inside or outside the tackle box (free blocking zone to use the correct HS term). And you never get a free shot at the kicker no matter where he is, if you can hold up you have to hold up. That being said, I will give more leeway to the defenders in a situation where it is not evident that the kick will happen.

 

[ref2]

Look at it this way. If he is running, like a rugby kicker. He is a runner until he becomes a kicker. If the defender has started his charge to tackle the player and then he kicks it he is not guilt of roughing the kicker

 

[dieter]

With the 40 second play clock rules that went into effect a few years ago, there is no whistling in a play anymore in general. In your case with the sack, the 40 second play clock starts after the sack. The officials get the ball spotted and once the offense is set they can snap, no need to wait for anything.