Strength of non-conference scheduling

[colin2229]

Do you agree with a team that plays in a very tough conference scheduling weak non-con games to improve their chances of getting into the playoffs?

Or, good programs just don’t think that way?

I hear the argument all the time for scheduling a weak non-con schedule. But the programs I hear that from never do much when it comes to the playoffs. Perhaps just a losers mentality?

 

[guerinfbfan]

What I would do if I was HFC/AD and was in a very strong conference, I'd still schedule the toughest non conference teams I could find. I'd want us as prepared as possible for the playoffs and feel that the cream always rises to the top. The experience of tough games is beneficial to playoff success IMO.

 

[corey90]

My opinion is you should schedule some tough non-conference opponents but they should only be as good or slightly better than your team. You shouldn’t schedule a team that will clearly dominate your team because that can have a devastating affect on your team the rest of the season. You could also lose players to injury by being out matched. Example: The Rochester game. I think their coach put his players in a game that was completely out of their league. I am not sure if Rochester had any injuries? Hopefully Rochester rebounds from that massacre.

 

[crusader_of_90]

Eons ago, Althoff was an independent so we looked for nine games a year. Always as tough as we could schedule. We ran into problems of big schools not wanting to be embarrassed by a small school.

Coach Schott believed we’d be better prepared for the playoff that way. And if we did not make the playoffs, that was on us.

That’s how we ended up with Football Enrollment in the State of Illinois.

 

[colin2229]

What I would do if I was HFC/AD and was in a very strong conference, I'd still schedule the toughest non conference teams I could find. I'd want us as prepared as possible for the playoffs and feel that the cream always rises to the top. The experience of tough games is beneficial to playoff success IMO.

Guerin, your program would be a great example.

You’re the AD/HDC at Guerin, you would still schedule a tough non-conference lineup when Gurien is going to play Montini, St Fran, Woodstock Marian, EIC and Marmion in conference?

Your conference schedule gets your more than prepared for the 3a/4a playoffs.
Thoughts?

 

[guerinfbfan]

Guerin, your program would be a great example.

You’re the AD/HDC at Guerin, you would still schedule a tough non-conference lineup when Gurien is going to play Montini, St Fran, Woodstock Marian, EIC and Marmion in conference?

Your conference schedule gets your more than prepared for the 3a/4a playoffs.
Thoughts?

If I know I can sqeuak in with 5 wins absolutely. Ill have the playoff points. If we don't get in then we weren't good enough. Ill take a good, battle tested 5-4 over a soft 8-1 or 9-0.

 

[colin2229]

If I know I can sqeuak in with 5 wins absolutely. Ill have the playoff points. If we don't get in then we weren't good enough. Ill take a good, battle tested 5-4 over a soft 8-1 or 9-0.

That’s the issue, w that conference schedule, chances are you won’t get 5 wins in conference. So w that thought, do you play CPS schools non-con or Wilmington and Sterling?

 

[Cross Bones]

depends on who you are. If I'm a SWSR team I schedule like an Argo or Rich Twnshp, but no CPS. I would leave the CPS schools for Joliet Centrals and Romeovilles of the world.

 

[guerinfbfan]

That’s the issue, w that conference schedule, chances are you won’t get 5 wins in conference. So w that thought, do you play CPS schools non-con or Wilmington and Sterling?

Give me Wilmington or Sterling. We're not getting any better by playing low level CPS schools.

 

[Wittymoniker1]

If I'm LA, LWE, MC or ESL, then I'd be more prone to schedule one real tough non-conference game. I want my Mustangs to make the playoffs every year, and if it means scheduling two "tomato cans" early on, then so be it.

In the past, I posited for Cascia to play MC every year, so I just contradicted myself, but I truly see the value in playing MC every year--whether it be non-conference or in-conference.

If Cascia performs year-in and year-out at the levels of the Rambler and LWE, then I'd all be for scheduling one real tough opponent for Week One or Two, i.e. MS, Brook, GW, WWS and so on. And I get the 5-4 team that plays very tough opponents during the whole season being prepared for the playoffs, but sometimes that 5-4 record can turn into a 3-6 or 4-5 season. I'd rather play a weaker schedule and make the playoffs then boast how tough of a schedule my school played and not make the playoffs. Get my drift? Especially, if you'll be seeing those same teams come playoff time.

I love what Maine South does and kudos to MS4EVER for promoting this and not backing away: since MS plays in a weaker conference, the Hawk schedules very tough non-conference opponents, thus, preparing him for any potential strong teams in said conference as well as the grueling (8A as of late) playoff schedule.

Ideal world: Rita plays MC every year in Week One, if she doesn't see Caravan during CCL season. If Cascia ends up playing MC during CCL season, then Rita should try and schedule a weaker opponent for Week One and Week Two, respectively. Then play Benet, Don, Roadrunner--three games that will never be a "gimme," even in down years for those capable schools just like Rita really isn't a "gimme" when she is down.

I just want Rita to be strong and healthy for the playoffs and playing the likes of LA, Don and let's say a PC during Weeks 7, 8 & 9 can curtail that "strong and healthy" mantra.

 

[SouthofI80FootballFan]

Give me Wilmington or Sterling. We're not getting any better by playing low level CPS schools.

But many schools think the easy cupcake games are the way to go to get to 5. These are the programs where they think "just getting to the playoffs is good enough." But teams who schedule tough opponents want to win a few games in the playoffs, not just get there

On the other hand, if you are in a weak conference, it is very beneficial to schedule tough non cons to be prepared for the playoffs.

 

[colin2229]

Give me Wilmington or Sterling. We're not getting any better by playing low level CPS schools

But then you run the high risk of going 4-5 or worse and not making the playoffs.

 

[Wilmatucky]

I think it's a fine line. Pros and Cons to both sides as well. Regardless of the strength of your conference you don't want complete cupcakes, just like you wouldn't want to schedule a team that you have a slim chance of beating. I understand the whole battle tested theory, but even if you are a really good team and you end the season at 6-3 you could be setting yourself up for a bad draw in the playoffs. I would think you want games in the first two weeks that let you see what you need to work on but are still winnable. Problem is, if everybody thinks that way it may be hard to find an opponent.

 

[missingwalter]

depends on who you are. If I'm a SWSR team I schedule like an Argo or Rich Twnshp, but no CPS. I would leave the CPS schools for Joliet Centrals and Romeovilles of the world.

Which happen to be our next two opponents.

 

[RameyJacoby]

My opinion is you should schedule some tough non-conference opponents but they should only be as good or slightly better than your team. You shouldn’t schedule a team that will clearly dominate your team because that can have a devastating affect on your team the rest of the season. You could also lose players to injury by being out matched. Example: The Rochester game. I think their coach put his players in a game that was completely out of their league. I am not sure if Rochester had any injuries? Hopefully Rochester rebounds from that massacre.

I’m with you 100 percent with you @corey90 They might have been out of there league. But you have to put into perspective that same Program (not team) was able to beat a 5A St. Rita Team. I’m not saying it’s the same but it definitely happened. We all know SHG and Rochester are small power house programs. If I was a Head Coach I would push for Challenges Rochester should have taken the forfeit win, atleast they will get some playoff points.

 

[Cross Bones]

Which happen to be our next two opponents.

Who? I thought SWP teams only got 1 or 2 non-conference games.

 

[PowerI66]

Who? I thought SWP teams only got 1 or 2 non-conference games.

JC and Romeoville

 

[missingwalter]

Who? I thought SWP teams only got 1 or 2 non-conference games.

Two Non-con, Two-Crossovers and 5 conference games.

 

[Cross Bones]

Two Non-con, Two-Crossovers and 5 conference games.

For you guys I'm all in on 2 tough non-conference games.

 

[missingwalter]

For you guys I'm all in on 2 tough non-conference games.

Honestly, it's always been their way. I hated not playing games against WV, NV, Providence, Batavia, Morris etc. The most disappointing thing about my son's years there was no non-con games and not getting to play Neuqua last season.

 

[lurker74]

It depends on your conference.

Using last weeks Montini vs Sterling game as an example. Sterling will be helped by playing Montini, and even with the loss, Sterling will most likely end up8-1, 7-2, etc. and in the playoffs. For Montini, with the meat grinder that they play for conference, whether they played Sterling or an "easy win", they will be ready for the playoffs. I'm not sure the risk of it being 17-10 Sterling instead of 17-10 Montini is worth it when trying to scratch out the 5 wins

 

[colin2229]

I guess my actual question is,

It depends on your conference.

Using last weeks Montini vs Sterling game as an example. Sterling will be helped by playing Montini, and even with the loss, Sterling will most likely end up8-1, 7-2, etc. and in the playoffs. For Montini, with the meat grinder that they play for conference, whether they played Sterling or an "easy win", they will be ready for the playoffs. I'm not sure the risk of it being 17-10 Sterling instead of 17-10 Montini is worth it when trying to scratch out the 5 wins

This is a great example.

From what I can tell, the teams that have a loaded conference schedule, still play a tough non-conference schedule. I think that's what makes them good programs.

Montini, EIC, JCA, Providence, Rita, etc...always play a top notch non-conference schedule before conference. They always run the risk of not getting to 5 wins but it's worth it.

I'm of the opinion that you need to play a good non-conference schedule for the #1 reason of motivation during the offseason. If the kids know they play a top 10 team week 1, it helps them to stay focused/motivated during the offseason.

 

[colin2229]

I'm trying to think of (1) example of a team playing an extremely weak non-conference schedule and doing well in the playoffs. Any examples?

 

[lurker74]

I'm trying to think of (1) example of a team playing an extremely weak non-conference schedule and doing well in the playoffs. Any examples?

The last championship game played in Illinois, LWE won 8A. Their regular season schedule had 2 teams (both in conference), that finished the year over .500.

 

[USD24]

The last championship game played in Illinois, LWE won 8A. Their regular season schedule had 2 teams (both in conference), that finished the year over .500.

While true, I would not consider a non-conference schedule that consisted of Stevenson and Naperville Central nto be extremely weak.

 

[godfthr53]

I'm trying to think of (1) example of a team playing an extremely weak non-conference schedule and doing well in the playoffs. Any examples?

2018 Montini played Hyde Park and Christ the King made it to championship game.

 

[johnndoe]

Two Non-con, Two-Crossovers and 5 conference games.

For the SW Prairie referenced above, how are the East division vs West division cross-overs established? Blind draw, enrollment, previous record(s) or something else?

 

[Cross Bones]

When we won in 2011 we played Plainfield South (with LB Garrett) and Bellville E (who whooped us the prior year)

 

[USD24]

I have absolutely no idea, there really is no obvious rhyme or reason to it.

If you are a really good team, you are a really good team, regardless of who you play in non-conference games. Alabama plays Mercer Saturday. You think that diminishes their chances of winning a national championship?

 

[missingwalter]

If you are a really good team, you are a really good team, regardless of who you play in non-conference games. Alabama plays Mercer Saturday. You think that diminishes their chances of winning a national championship?

I meant to reply to John Doe.

 

[missingwalter]

For the SW Prairie referenced above, how are the East division vs West division cross-overs established? Blind draw, enrollment, previous record(s) or something else?

I have absolutely no idea, there really is no obvious rhyme or reason to it.

 

[colin2229]

If you are a really good team, you are a really good team, regardless of who you play in non-conference games. Alabama plays Mercer Saturday. You think that diminishes their chances of winning a national championship?

This is different than IL HS football.

 

[mchsalumni]

Look at it this way: If you play in a mediocre conference, schedule up for non-con. If you have a brutal conference schedule, maybe you schedule down for non-con if you are worried about the 5 wins.

Maine South comes to mind for the former. Anyone in the CCL Blue would cover the latter.

Doesn't mean you always follow those rules, but not a bad place to start.

 

[caravan8]

Anyone in the CCL Blue would cover the latter.

With the current 4 team division I would say that even the CCL/ESCC Blue teams could schedule solid non conference opponents.

 

[johnndoe]

Regarding division cross-overs, I know the South Suburban has one per year and pairs up teams with the same position in the conference standings from the prior season.
The Southwest Suburban has 3 cross-overs per year and all the teams from the smaller enrollment Red are paired up with 3 schools coming from the LWE, HF, Brook, Lockport & Sandburg Blue pool. Not a great recipe for choosing 2 ball-busting non-cons to start out the season.

 

[mchsalumni]

With the current 4 team division I would say that even the CCL/ESCC Blue teams could schedule solid non conference opponents.

Depends on the crossovers, but yes.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

If I know I can sqeuak in with 5 wins absolutely. Ill have the playoff points. If we don't get in then we weren't good enough. Ill take a good, battle tested 5-4 over a soft 8-1 or 9-0.

But many schools think the easy cupcake games are the way to go to get to 5. These are the programs where they think "just getting to the playoffs is good enough." But teams who schedule tough opponents want to win a few games in the playoffs, not just get there

On the other hand, if you are in a weak conference, it is very beneficial to schedule tough non cons to be prepared for the playoffs.

There are a ton of schools that believe just getting in is good enough. The CPL's Payton comes to mind. Schedule easy wins and game the system to stay in a weak conference. Go undefeated. Get the number one seed in the playoffs. Make up the playoff tshirts! Get hammered. Season over. Hey look at our playoff tshirts!

 

[johnndoe]

Is it true, if you win a conference/division with only 5 schools, you are not an automatic playoff qualifier? That would really be an argument in favor of scheduling soft on the non-cons, especially if you have automatic cross-overs against bigger schools. I am thinking of a school like LW West, who went 0-2 non-con, lost their 1st cross-over to the Brook, yet still have 2 more crosses against Lockport and H-F. So if they "only" win their 4 division games to go 4-5, they stay home post-season? Yet, someone they beat in their own division, but has easier non-cons and maybe an easier cross-over schedule qualifies at 5-4 or better?

 

[Cross Bones]

Is it true, if you win a conference/division with only 5 schools, you are not an automatic playoff qualifier? That would really be an argument in favor of scheduling soft on the non-cons, especially if you have automatic cross-overs against bigger schools. I am thinking of a school like LW West, who went 0-2 non-con, lost their 1st cross-over to the Brook, yet still have 2 more crosses against Lockport and H-F. So if they "only" win their 4 division games to go 4-5, they stay home post-season? Yet, someone they beat in their own division, but has easier non-cons and maybe an easier cross-over schedule qualifies at 5-4 or better?

I am not sure if they still do it this way, but the crossovers used to count as conference games so the 5 team conferences with crossovers did get the auto bid. That said, this doesnt help LWW really. They have an unfortunately tough couple non-cons. They are definitely a good team. I was looking at their playoff points and if any 4-5 teams make it they should be at the top of the bunch assuming they win all of their division games and lose to Lockport and H-F.

Those kids, 2 & 3 (I think), are a load.

 

[corey90]

I am not sure if they still do it this way, but the crossovers used to count as conference games so the 5 team conferences with crossovers did get the auto bid. That said, this doesnt help LWW really. They have an unfortunately tough couple non-cons. They are definitely a good team. I was looking at their playoff points and if any 4-5 teams make it they should be at the top of the bunch assuming they win all of their division games and lose to Lockport and H-F.

Those kids, 2 & 3 (I think), are a load.

It’s not going to happen. I don’t see them beating either of those 2 teams. That’s me picking LP and that’s something I didn’t think I would do but they have improved. Not a power yet but have gotten better to the point you can’t discount them. HF well they are just better.