Niles West Coach Out
- Thread starter DigitalCy
- Start date
Culture is built by the school AD and Coach. You have to get the parents buy in and of course the players. Make no mistake if the school parents don’t buy in then the culture will not be reinforced. The AD & Coach rallies and builds a culture that will want the community to rally around.
They better change what they are doing or nothing will change. Make no mistake winning will help get the community on board.
Good luck.
Culture is also begun at birth, manifested over a lifetime, and carried out within groups of people for centuries. 49% of the students at NW are either Asian or Hispanic. I don't think I am being insensitive or politicaclly incorrect by saying that football is not generally a sport of first or second choice among high school aged kids from within these two groups.
Niles West - 31 percent low income, 49 percent Asian and Hispanic
Palatine - 55 percent low income, 53.4 percent Asian and Hispanic
Well their you go. Ramblinman please explain since you feel ethnic culture isn’t interested in football.
Well unless 53% of the team at Palatine is Hispanic or Asian (it’s not) it kinda reinforces point that those kids are way underrepresented when it comes to football participation. The main difference is Palatine has a fairly decent tradition in football and solid feeder program.
Great day to be a Panther! Let’s go PAFA! Registration open until May 1st!
Um, Palatine is an outlier? For every Palatine that you can come with, I will find a Maine East, and I bet you will run out long before I will.
Are you trying to make an argument that, generally speaking, Asians and Hispanics in this state enjoy participation in high school football as much as whites and blacks? If so, give it your best shot. If not, what is your point?
Palatine is a major exception. Name another program with those demographics that has had that kind of success in the last 20 years. The only other one that I can think of is maybe Rolling Meadows and that is a stretch.
No
But your spinning it into more a race thing than a football talk. I am sure Americans, Asians and Hispanics like football. I get what your saying culture is different but if you don’t change and start building this culture it will never change. Their are plenty of Asians and Hispanics playing football in Southern California not just Palatine.
I am bringing race/ethinicity up as one of a multiple of contributing factors as to why schools like Niles West, Maine East, etc. don't have strong football programs. It's not saying that people of certain races are no good at football. It is very much to say that, in general, certain races are culturally biased to favor participation in sports other than football. That is all.
I was posting that just to show that it can be done, and that culture (or tradition) can be created. Those Palatine demographics are VERY different from what they were in the late 80s/ early 90s
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Would you agree that their a lot of these races playing in Southern California?
100 percent it is all about culture and experienced Coach’s.look at main west. Also why is Waukegans football program so bad with 4000 kids?But basketball is always good?
Palatine has more and more Hispanic kids playing football, and playing it well,every year. The notion that certain groups are more predisposed to play certain sports(i.e. Hispanics and soccer) is accurate only in communities where the culture is more recent immigrant( like a Maine East). Where the group is more established and multigenerational, those rules do not apply as much.
What is your freaking point?
Are you contending that, as a general rule, those groups choose football first over other sports? I'm saying that other sports tend to take precedence. If you disagree with it, then say so and we will agree to disagree. But, I fail to see the point of brining So Cal into it.
No reason why people of any Asian heritage wouldn't find success at the high school level. In fact, LSU had great success with the Chinese Bandits playing defense back in '58 and '59 - winning 15 straight games! Don't understand why coaches are so afraid to try this today.
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Ramblinman
You are wrong. You are the one saying as a general rule these Americans, Asian and Hispanics don’t play football because it’s not their culture. I was trying to give you examples of how you are wrong. Other posters also tried to tell you. Connect the dots. You made a broad statement that holds no fact. Their are plenty of schools in this country including Illinois that have really good programs with Asians and Hispanic players . Your statement sounds very racist. So yes we can agree to disagree.
Why is stating that a certain group generally chooses one sport over another considered racist?
It’s the American way when facts and figures don’t line up with your thought just throw an “ism” out there.
Don't try speaking for me. I believe Ramblinman is correct that statistically speaking some ethnic groups are less likely to pick football as their major sport and he is not being racist.
That doesn't mean, nor was he saying anything about their ability to be good football players, they don't make good football players if they don't want to play football. That's a fact.
corey:
I tend to believe I have a collegial relationship with you, so if you insist in introducing racism into the exchange with ramblinman over his theory relating to interest for football among certain demographic groups in the communities surrounding Skokie, by all means, add me to the list of horribles.
I've lived in Winnetka for thirty-four years and am familiar with some of the neighboring high schools. Many of the schools nearby, the Glenbrooks, the Niles schools, have a higher percentage of ethnic groups which have virtually no interest in football and, by extension, contact sports. For example: Glenbrook North has a significant percentage of Asian, Korean specifically, students, most of whom do not play football.
I am also well acquainted with a third-generation Polish-Jewish family in Northbrook, of whom the mother, a dear woman, steadfastly refused to allow her sons to play football for GBN. To her, it was a matter of principle.
When ramblinman references the larger proportion of Asian or Hispanic student population at Niles West preferring soccer or cross country over football, I believe he is absolutely correct and his remark made free of any prejudice.
Witt
I agree with what your saying and I am man enough to say I took it to far. Ramblinman for that I apologize. I was trying to make a point that we have many different cultures playing football and I don’t necessarily agree that a school with such ethnic diversity can’t change their culture and be a top program. We have plenty of kids from all races that love the game not just black and white people.
Been and interesting off season to say the least. While the ethnicity argument may appear on it's face to have some merit @corey90 and @PowerI66 bring up some good counter arguments. Also, let's say the demographics were different, similar to AA Stagg, do they then become a competitive program?
I think to lump ethnicity into the reasons a program isn't successful can be a slippery slope and also suggests nothing can be done about it.
I think to lump ethnicity into the reasons a program isn't successful can be a slippery slope and also suggests nothing can be done about it.
Their counter arguments are arguing against a generality. In order to disprove that generality, they need to identify far more than a handful of examples. Failing that, the examples they do provide can be easily explained as exceptions to the general rule.
What their arguments do offer, though, is proof that something can be done about it under certain circumstances. But, those relative few programs that do succeed in this area serve also to prove my point at how difficult it is to do...which brings us back to the original post about the coach from NW.
corey:
I get it. My binary point was to (a) defend ramblinman against what I found to be an overreach; and (b) provide my perspective to bolster his point.
I believe it is possible to have a healthy conversation on this forum about the ethnic or racial composition of high school athletic programs without being branded a bigot.
Bones:
It is indeed.
If memory serves, there was a lengthy thread a few years back in which posters hypothesized over the multitude of reasons for 7-8A schools failing to sustain football success. Even though the thread was derailed by innumerable digressions, one example a serious poster advanced was Blue Island Eisenhower. I could be wrong on the school, but if it was not Eisenhower, I am fairly confident it was a school in the area.
If I recall, one member of the forum added the rollercoaster ride the school experienced and its general record of historical futility was due to a high percentage of Arab-Americans enrolled in the school. I honestly don't recollect who the poster was, but their core argument insisted the Arab-Americans which made up a sizable percentage of the school were simply uninterested in football.
Do you, by chance, share the same memory?
Do not recall. If the thread was labeled Eisenhower it is likely I didn't click it. If that argument were made I probably would agree that there may be a cultural barrier to success, but wouldn't tie it to ethnicity because as @ramblinman points out it is very general, and in my opinion to the point it means nothing.
For example I used AA Stagg in my previous post. I would argue it is probably a cultural issue that keeps them from winning. Same with Lockport. Same with Thornridge. Same with Morton. All these schools represent different demographics and all of them struggle to get wins. Meanwhile, near Stagg, Sandburg has fielded competitive teams. Near Thornridge, Thornton has fielded competitive teams. Near Lockport, Joliet West has been fielding competitive teams.
Some schools just have a bad football culture and that's what needs to be nurtured. I would argue it's this way everywhere. I would be willing to wager lol (don't mention it) that a certain type of kid that doesn't play football at Bolingbrook is part of the 100 man roster at Lincoln-Way East or H-F, leaving us with 60 kid rosters. Football culture.
