We beat them and Mount Carmel was clobbered by 2 TD's. That is how it went for us.
Why would you leap frog someone over JCA?
- Thread starter Hofman
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I am confused a bit. Does anyone really know if JCA ran away from Rita. Could there have been other factors? Why would JCA from Spring knowing they had their best team in 20 years run from Rita and then schedule Simeon who at the time was rated extremely high. I don't even believe we were the favorite. I would be curious of someone in the know from Rita could shed some light on this.
Throughout last two years, posters have referred to it. No one disputed it, so I went with it in my post. I'd loved to hear the behind-the-scenes version.
I disagree. They are better than decent. Rita will have their hands full. Your kidding yourself if you think they got to the final with a decent team. That’s a border line foolish comment. Just saying Rita will have their hands full IMO. No one in the final got their by being just decent.
Yes but JCA still is playing 4A teams. Just saying it isn’t the same.
I am talking about cardinal ritter. Im not sure who you are referring to but it doesn't sound like you were talking about CR.
Who is the better team and who plays a tougher schedule are two entirely different questions. And it seems like the two get conflated way too often.
How would loyola, for example, be a worse team if you took their same exact roster and they played a 4a schedule/playoff?
If a lowly, menial 4a school can beat a team, surely a 7a power should be able to do so as well right?
They wouldn’t be worse but if your ranking them they would not have the same strength of schedule in 4A as they would in 8A.
If Loyola was in 4A, the could send their freshmen.
I think Mt. Carmel would have beaten Marengo, Wheaton Academy, Genoa and Ricmond Burton.
I think it's pretty obvious why you chose to deflect instead of actually answering the question.
The repetitive deflection isn't necessary. It's pretty apparent that your logic doesn't hold water
Son, I'm not the object of so much vitriol because I deflect questions. That's my problem. I'm too direct. I don't back down from anyone - not even the police.
BTW, I don't really think that the LA frosh could beat Richmond-Burton.
This board never disappoints, the word “vitriol” being used twice in one night. You guys are making me smarter every day. Thank you.
This is true but it’s one of the only indicators we have because they will never play each other. They can’t all be #1.
Way to go, Crisper. I purposely used "vitriol" to see if anyone would catch it. It's an expression that used to get thrown around this board by the less well spoken (usually thrown at me) and it always followed "spew."
Pardon my oxymoron. Can you be less well spoken? Ask the Ignatius guys.
I’m not smart enough to engage the Ignatius guys in conversation…..I’m well aware of my limitations.
Definitely
Yep, the cigar smoking, top shelf whiskey drinking pinky in the air people are the worse!🤣👍
So the team itself is elite but because they played a CPS school instead of SR you say they arent?
Why do rankings matter? Shouldn’t the only thing that matters is winning a title instead of being the best in someone’s opinion?
I’ve been extremely critical of JCA going 4a. With that said their playoff run was supposed to look like this:
Marengo
Wheaton Acd
Wheaton St Francis
Phillips
Rochester/SHG
If that were to have happened…I wonder if everyone’s opinions (mine included) would be a littler different.
Marengo
Wheaton Acd
Wheaton St Francis
Phillips
Rochester/SHG
If that were to have happened…I wonder if everyone’s opinions (mine included) would be a littler different.
It gives something for us old guys to argue about on a message board.
Perhaps. But I actually think the reality of their path to a possible title has exceeded what people’s perceptions of what 4A would be. The final 4 has been exceptional across the board. Would have been nice to play SF instead of Genoa but I guess SF wasn’t that good. Or had a terrible game.
No matter. The first three rounds of running clock would likely have happened in 5A or 6A as well. And the final four is better at 4A than 5A in my opinion. Heck, even Rita was met with only mild resistance in their 7A route. I don’t think JC’s path through 4A has been anything like people’s’ Ill informed projections of a scenario that looked like Sherman’s March to the Sea.
assuming a very competitive 4A championship game and I feel like it will be hard to argue that JC was grossly misplaced as so many here thought just a few weeks ago.
Rankings matter as a sign or respect or validation. Let's face it, others opinion matters. Will it win a game for you, no however, how others view your favorite team has a small level of importance to the individuals involved. Rankings are a part of the game like fans are. "Expert" opinions matter.
It is pretty obvious Lockport has been underrated for a while now. In my opinion, they should be ranked number one right now. They beat the number 1 ranked team last week by two touchdowns. If they lose this week then move them down. Their schedule was solid.
To me, MS is going to be the toughest test for this team. I have wanted to see how the Porters would do against such an outstanding program and was hoping they would win. We'll find out soon enough.
However, if there was one team I wish Lockport could play it would be JCA. I'd love to see that game and would definitely go to that one. I don't take anything away from JCA's winning. The state championships count. But that team belongs in either 7A or 8A and I totally disagree with them being as low as they are.
It is impossible for me to say Lockport "would" beat JCA or JCA "wouldn't" win in 8A. But I am 100% certain about this. The road to the championship for JCA would be much, much more difficult in 8A than it is in 4A. That's a given. Too bad we'll never know until JCA moves up, if ever. I personally think they are playing way under where they should be.
To me, MS is going to be the toughest test for this team. I have wanted to see how the Porters would do against such an outstanding program and was hoping they would win. We'll find out soon enough.
However, if there was one team I wish Lockport could play it would be JCA. I'd love to see that game and would definitely go to that one. I don't take anything away from JCA's winning. The state championships count. But that team belongs in either 7A or 8A and I totally disagree with them being as low as they are.
It is impossible for me to say Lockport "would" beat JCA or JCA "wouldn't" win in 8A. But I am 100% certain about this. The road to the championship for JCA would be much, much more difficult in 8A than it is in 4A. That's a given. Too bad we'll never know until JCA moves up, if ever. I personally think they are playing way under where they should be.
It's something I've been strong on forever. The reason why I am okay with schools leapfrogging JCA is because we're talking about proving it on the field by beating the other schools in the conversation and not trying to project what would happen in a hypothetical matchup. We all thought Loyola looked the strongest, but due to being 8A they had to prove it on the field. Lockport didnt necessarily look the strongest and I saw them close up. But they proved it on the field. So how much confidence do we put into "team X looks the strongest" vs "team X actually proved it on the field"? I am going with the latter 100% of the time.
Same reason I push back against crowning EStL, and I love that program. Hell, I like JCA. What I like more than anything is teams playing who they should play and seeing what happens.
Same reason I push back against crowning EStL, and I love that program. Hell, I like JCA. What I like more than anything is teams playing who they should play and seeing what happens.
Man, Mount Carmel was beat convincingly by St. Iggy who lost in the 2nd round of “lowly” 6A. You guys should just be quiet for once. Or maybe you just enjoy being a laughing stock…..🤷🏾♂️ Now, I have no dog in this fight, but some of you MC guys really have no clue where to step off.
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This is what is wrong with worrying about rankings, and perception of program's strengths. Because SF and Phillips lost to " Farm Schools",( my words, not yours) your perception of the strength of JCA's playoff opponents is lessened?
Bones, I can agree. ESL enjoys playing some of the better northern teams in regular season matchups; in more favorable football conditions. Let’s be honest, in the Midwest, there are many challenges with actually winning it all at any level, but one major factor is the weather. Also teams with less enrollment have less depth, so when injuries happen, there is far less of a chance of the next man up actually being quasi-ready for Playoff football. Playoff football is just more challenging, but not necessarily based on the likelihood of encountering more challenging opponents than ones encountered in regular season play.
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In a purely theoretical sense you would be correct. In a real-world sense I'm not so sure for a couple of reasons.
First, in the real world the value of playoffs is to test the hypothetical proposition that a particular team is or is not the best team. That cannot be done conclusively when eight different classes of teams are involved, but the level of certainty increases as one moves up the scale to the higher classes. In other words, one can have more confidence that the 8A champion is the best team in the state than they can have that the 4A champion is the best team in the state. Joliet Catholic, in the 4A playoffs, simply won't have the same opportunity to be tested and therefore demonstrate that they are the best team in the state. Perhaps this obstacle could be overcome if they had beaten one or more of the 6A, 7A and 8A champions during the regular season, but that is not the case this year. The best case one might be able to make this year (and I emphasize the word "might"), is that Joliet Catholic might be able to plausibly argue they are better than the 7A champion, particularly if St. Rita is that champion.
Second, a team becomes better by playing better competition. If the University of Georgia football team played in the Sun Belt Conference this year with the exact same coaching and personnel, the team would likely be 7 to 10 points worse than this year's SEC-hardened Georgia football team come playoff time. That is one of the problems Gonzaga's basketball team faces every year come tournament time. They do a good job of scheduling difficult non-conference games early in the season and have become a better program for having done so. But, they then end the season with two months of West Coast Conference games and lose some of their edge come tournament time. A Sun Belt Conference Georgia would probably not be the best college football team in the country.
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