This Public/Private Debate I think I have the answer. POLL.

[corey90]

Maybe this was already brought up maybe not? I have been reading the back and forth debates. Sometimes harsh.

What if the IHSA did this to level the playing field for both Publics and Privates. You can’t argue unfair.

Use the Rankings to decide what level you play in the playoffs.

Top 10 teams ranked in the state automatically play in 8A playoffs.

11 thru 20 play in 7A

21-30 play in 6A.

All other schools play based on enrollment Publics and for Privates Multipler is still in affect. Basically if your not ranked in the top 30 you play exactly how the IHSA had it now.
This would have the best play each other in the division they should based on how they are ranked in the state.
Is ESL/SHG etc would or could play LWE/LA/MC/MS/Warren etc. if a public is ranked lower they will be moved down just like a private school. Again if your the best in the state your playing in the playoffs based on how your ranked!

Okay let me hear you! 😊

 

[Wolffan64]

Theoretically an ok idea. Who’s rankings would be used?

 

[corey90]

Theoretically an ok idea. Who’s rankings would be used?

We could use Edgys or whoever the IHSA thinks is the most accurate. Really when your talking rankings they all are fairly close

 

[privatone]

So someone ranked 10 would tank the week 9 game to be ranked 11 and be the favorite in 7a?

 

[corey90]

So someone ranked 10 would tank the week 9 game to be ranked 11 and be the favorite in 7a?

I don’t think I have ever seen a HS team tank a game. Really privateone you would think this. Show me a coach that would tank a game to play a division down? If a coach did he isn’t worth salt and most likely not a top 30 coach

 

[corey90]

So someone ranked 10 would tank the week 9 game to be ranked 11 and be the favorite in 7a?

Try to poke a hole it just shows you don’t want to play the best in the state. You want to talk it but you really don’t want to be the best.

 

[Wassup13]

Edgy only ranks Chicagoland teams. Who ranks all teams in the state?

Where was Naz ranked this year after a 2-4 start and what class would they have landed in?

Would rankings ever allow IC to play in the 7a or 8a playoffs?

Lena Winslow??

 

[greatgig13]

Edgy only ranks Chicagoland teams. Who ranks all teams in the state?

Beth Long

 

[corey90]

Edgy only ranks Chicagoland teams. Who ranks all teams in the state?

If Edgy only ranks Chicago then how does ESL get ranked #1 in the state? Listen you can keep trying to poke holes but we all know every year who the top teams are year after year. Using the rankings just makes it fair for both the publics and the privates. Everyone wants to see the best play each other, this makes it happen. Let’s stop the complaining and let’s put up or shut up.

 

[Wassup13]

Beth Long

Bob Sakamoto

 

[Wassup13]

If Edgy only ranks Chicago then how does ESL get ranked #1 in the state? Listen you can keep trying to poke holes but we all know every year who the top teams are year after year. Using the rankings just makes it fair for both the publics and the privates. Everyone wants to see the best play each other, this makes it happen. Let’s stop the complaining and let’s put up or shut up.

I did not think Edgy ranks ESL, SHG, Rochester and others during the regular season.

It is an interesting idea though.

 

[corey90]

I did not think Edgy ranks ESL, SHG, Rochester and others during the regular season.

Wassup13
How does ESL get ranked #1 last year? Again it doesn’t matter. Use all of the rankings and come up with the top 10, 20, 30. It doesn’t matter. You don’t like it because your afraid it puts you in a playoff that makes you play the best. Show me a better way to get the best, second best and 3rd best to play where they should play? Show me.

 

[Wassup13]

Wassup13
How does ESL get ranked #1 last year? Again it doesn’t matter. Use all of the rankings and come up with the top 10, 20, 30. It doesn’t matter. You don’t like it because your afraid it puts you in a playoff that makes you play the best. Show me a better way to get the best, second best and 3rd best to play where they should play? Show me.

It's interesting but I don't think a 5a team belongs playing in the top 20 playoff bracket.

Would you ever put JCA in the top 20? Rochester?

 

[corey90]

It's interesting but I don't think a 5a team belongs playing in the top 20 playoff bracket.

Would you ever put JCA in the top 20? Rochester?

If they rank in the top 10 who cares. If they are good enough to be ranked in the top 10 they should. Remember JCA last year or ESL. If your that good then that’s where you belong. Let’s stop thinking about levels 8A 7A 6A 5A 4A etc
If you ranked in the top 30 your placed in the playoffs where you should be. Quit trying to make an excuse. If you want to be the best play the teams in the playoffs where it’s going to be competitive, public or private. It removes the excuses. I haven’t heard one real reason why it wouldn’t work.

 

[Wassup13]

If they rank in the top 10 who cares. If they are good enough to be ranked in the top 10 they should. Remember JCA last year or ESL. If your that good then that’s where you belong. Let’s stop thinking about levels 8A 7A 6A 5A 4A etc
If you ranked in the top 30 your placed in the playoffs where you should be. Quit trying to make an excuse. If you want to be the best play the teams in the playoffs where it’s going to be competitive, public or private. It removes the excuses. I haven’t heard one real reason why it wouldn’t work.

Ok I will quit after this.

So where would IC have landed in the last few years??

 

[corey90]

Ok I will quit after this.

So where would IC have landed in the last few years??

I don’t know how did they rank in the top 30?

 

[jwarigaku]

If they rank in the top 10 who cares. If they are good enough to be ranked in the top 10 they should. Remember JCA last year or ESL. If your that good then that’s where you belong. Let’s stop thinking about levels 8A 7A 6A 5A 4A etc
If you ranked in the top 30 your placed in the playoffs where you should be. Quit trying to make an excuse. If you want to be the best play the teams in the playoffs where it’s going to be competitive, public or private. It removes the excuses. I haven’t heard one real reason why it wouldn’t work.

Let’s just take the blended computer rankings from multiple sites and the top 32 are 8a the next 32 7a and so on and so forth till the top 256 computer ranked teams play in those divisions randomly each year. Nobody gets to bitch ever again because the human element was removed. I know how idiotic this sounds but it’s just as random as your suggestion.

 

[niualum2002]

If anyone wants to see what this would look like here you go. I classified the 256 qualifiers into their new class based off of this proposal. I used Edgy's Top 30 Chicagoland rankings from Week 10 prior to the playoffs to determine classes. I added East St. Louis and Springfield Sacred-Heart Griffin into his Top 10 based on it now being a statewide poll. Rochester and Peoria and maybe another downstate team I'm not thinking of could potentially be Top 30, but to make this easier, ESL and SHG were the only two that I bumped into the Top 30. If anyone wants to do brackets now that you have the updated 8 classes have fun with it. It is a long offseason after all.

Anyways after my calculations the final result is that 1A and 2A are untouched. Lena-Winslow and St. Teresa win state championships no matter what. IC is bumped out of 3A up to 6A, so there becomes most likely a public school champion in 3A.

Everything else from there is like a butterfly effect because seeds get changed therefore matchups get changed. Long story short is that publics can win all 8 classes under this model, but privates can also win 2A, and 4A all the way through 8A. I've projected possible champions in classes 3A-8A to make it interesting. 8A is now absolutely even more loaded now FYI.

Makes for a fascinating discussion. Take a look at the results. I can't guarantee I didn't make a mistake that would move a team up or down a class and have a major impact, but for the most part I think you will get the general idea as to how this proposal would work in reality.

Thanks to corey90...you made this a fascinating exercise on a Friday night without Illinois high school football.

Here is what I came up with...

8A: Edgytim Week 10 1-10
(add ESL & SHG since outside of Chicagoland, move #9 Maine South & #10 Lake Zurich to 11 & 12)
Added 6 teams to 8A: Mt. Carmel (1), ESL (4), SHG (5), Simeon (8), St. Charles North (9), St. Rita (10) (38)
Lose Bottom 6 Enrollment teams to 7A: Andrew, Glenbard East, Plainfield North, Edwardsville, Conant,
Glenbard West
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Loyola (Actual 8A Champ), Mt. Carmel (Actual 7A Champ), ESL (Actual 6A Champ)

7A: Now has 29 teams after losing 3 to 8A: Mt. Carmel, St. Charles North, St. Rita
Added 6 teams from 8A are now 7A: Andrew, Glenbard East, Plainfield North, Edwardsville, Conant,
Glenbard West (35)
Edgytim Week 10 11-20 Add to 7A: Lemont (14), Crete-Monee (16), Joliet Catholic (20) (38 teams)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 6 teams to 6A: Pekin, DeKalb, Rockford (Guilford), Libertyville, Geneva,
Collinsville
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Batavia, Glenbard West, Lemont, Brother Rice, Joliet Catholic

6A: Now has 28 teams after losing Simeon and ESL to 8A, Lemont and Crete-Monee to 7A
Added 6 teams from 7A are now 6A: Pekin, DeKalb, Rockford (Guilford), Libertyville, Geneva, Collinsville
(34)
Edgytim Week 10 21-30 (Not including Rochester or Peoria just to make this a little easier…borderline Top
30 teams)
Edgytim Week 10 21-30 Add to 6A: Sycamore (27), IC (28), Kankakee (29), Richmond-Burton (30) (38)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 6 teams to 5A: Kaneland, Perspectives, Amundsen, Prairie Ridge, Grayslake
Central, Champaign Centennial
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) St. Ignatius, Sycamore, IC, Kankakee, Richmond-Burton

5A: Now has 30 teams after losing Sycamore and Kankakee to 6A
Added 6 teams from 6A are now 5A: Kaneland, Perspectives, Amundsen, Prairie Ridge, Grayslake Central,
Champaign Centennial (36)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 4 teams to 4A: Morris, Centralia, St. Viator, Highland
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Prairie Ridge, Naz, Peoria

4A: Now has 29 teams after losing SHG to 8A, Joliet Catholic to 7A and Richmond-Burton to 6A
Added 4 teams from 5A are now 4A: Morris, Centralia, St. Viator, Highland (33)
Enrollment Lose Bottom team to 3A: Urban-Bronzeville Co-Op
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Providence, Rochester, St. Francis, Morris

3A: Now has 31 teams after losing IC to 6A
Added 1 team from 4A are now 3A: Urban-Bronzeville Co-Op
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Princeton, Byron, Williamsville

2A: No changes

1A: No changes

 

[corey90]

If anyone wants to see what this would look like here you go. I classified the 256 qualifiers into their new class based off of this proposal. I used Edgy's Top 30 Chicagoland rankings from Week 10 prior to the playoffs to determine classes. I added East St. Louis and Springfield Sacred-Heart Griffin into his Top 10 based on it now being a statewide poll. Rochester and Peoria and maybe another downstate team I'm not thinking of could potentially be Top 30, but to make this easier, ESL and SHG were the only two that I bumped into the Top 30. If anyone wants to do brackets now that you have the updated 8 classes have fun with it. It is a long offseason after all.

Anyways after my calculations the final result is that 1A and 2A are untouched. Lena-Winslow and St. Teresa win state championships no matter what. IC is bumped out of 3A up to 6A, so there becomes most likely a public school champion in 3A.

Everything else from there is like a butterfly effect because seeds get changed therefore matchups get changed. Long story short is that publics can win all 8 classes under this model, but privates can also win 2A, and 4A all the way through 8A. I've projected possible champions in classes 3A-8A to make it interesting. 8A is now absolutely even more loaded now FYI.

Makes for a fascinating discussion. Take a look at the results. I can't guarantee I didn't make a mistake that would move a team up or down a class and have a major impact, but for the most part I think you will get the general idea as to how this proposal would work in reality.

Thanks to corey90...you made this a fascinating exercise on a Friday night without Illinois high school football.

Here is what I came up with...

8A: Edgytim Week 10 1-10
(add ESL & SHG since outside of Chicagoland, move #9 Maine South & #10 Lake Zurich to 11 & 12)
Added 6 teams to 8A: Mt. Carmel (1), ESL (4), SHG (5), Simeon (8), St. Charles North (9), St. Rita (10) (38)
Lose Bottom 6 Enrollment teams to 7A: Andrew, Glenbard East, Plainfield North, Edwardsville, Conant,
Glenbard West
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Loyola (Actual 8A Champ), Mt. Carmel (Actual 7A Champ), ESL (Actual 6A Champ)

7A: Now has 29 teams after losing 3 to 8A: Mt. Carmel, St. Charles North, St. Rita
Added 6 teams from 8A are now 7A: Andrew, Glenbard East, Plainfield North, Edwardsville, Conant,
Glenbard West (35)
Edgytim Week 10 11-20 Add to 7A: Lemont (14), Crete-Monee (16), Joliet Catholic (20) (38 teams)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 6 teams to 6A: Pekin, DeKalb, Rockford (Guilford), Libertyville, Geneva,
Collinsville
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Batavia, Glenbard West, Lemont, Brother Rice, Joliet Catholic

6A: Now has 28 teams after losing Simeon and ESL to 8A, Lemont and Crete-Monee to 7A
Added 6 teams from 7A are now 6A: Pekin, DeKalb, Rockford (Guilford), Libertyville, Geneva, Collinsville
(34)
Edgytim Week 10 21-30 (Not including Rochester or Peoria just to make this a little easier…borderline Top
30 teams)
Edgytim Week 10 21-30 Add to 6A: Sycamore (27), IC (28), Kankakee (29), Richmond-Burton (30) (38)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 6 teams to 5A: Kaneland, Perspectives, Amundsen, Prairie Ridge, Grayslake
Central, Champaign Centennial
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) St. Ignatius, Sycamore, IC, Kankakee, Richmond-Burton

5A: Now has 30 teams after losing Sycamore and Kankakee to 6A
Added 6 teams from 6A are now 5A: Kaneland, Perspectives, Amundsen, Prairie Ridge, Grayslake Central,
Champaign Centennial (36)
Enrollment Lose Bottom 4 teams to 4A: Morris, Centralia, St. Viator, Highland
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Prairie Ridge, Naz, Peoria

4A: Now has 29 teams after losing SHG to 8A, Joliet Catholic to 7A and Richmond-Burton to 6A
Added 4 teams from 5A are now 4A: Morris, Centralia, St. Viator, Highland (33)
Enrollment Lose Bottom team to 3A: Urban-Bronzeville Co-Op
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Providence, Rochester, St. Francis, Morris

3A: Now has 31 teams after losing IC to 6A
Added 1 team from 4A are now 3A: Urban-Bronzeville Co-Op
32 teams after adjustments
Possible Champion(s) Princeton, Byron, Williamsville

2A: No changes

1A: No changes

Only use 1-30. Top 30 and use the rankings from the beginning of the season’s not the final. We know what happened in each final. The first year the rankings coming in to the season are the rankings that need to be used. Keep poking but I don’t see a more fair way to get a competitive playoff where people can’t point to cheating because of recruiting. Just saying publics or privates get moved up or down based on how they are ranked. Remember it only affects the top 30 ranked Teams all others fall in IHSA format.

 

[DeanOfSelection]

I'm curious what the brackets would look like if we still had Football Enrollment which I liked.

 

[niualum2002]

Only use 1-30. Top 30 and use the rankings from the beginning of the season’s not the final. We know what happened in each final. The first year the rankings coming in to the season are the rankings that need to be used. Keep poking but I don’t see a more fair way to get a competitive playoff where people can’t point to cheating because of recruiting. Just saying publics or privates get moved up or down based on how they are ranked. Remember it only affects the top 30 ranked Teams all others fall in IHSA format.

This is based on Top 30 just Week 10 (end of regular season) instead of Week 1 like the College Playoff Selection Committee coming up with rankings after the games have been played versus preseason.

I think it is a fascinating alternative which is why I ran the numbers. When the Top 30 teams are grouped into 8A, 7A, and 6A it then has a domino effect which affects who would have qualified from the other classes if that makes sense.

 

[stonedlizard]

This is a half step towards the power points classification and playoffs system I’ve proposed in the past.

I don’t mind it, and I see both approaches aiming to achieve similar classification outcomes, but ratings are subjective and can be manipulated. Would rather take both steps towards a systematic approach.

 

[corey90]

This is based on Top 30 just Week 10 (end of regular season) instead of Week 1 like the College Playoff Selection Committee coming up with rankings after the games have been played versus preseason.

I think it is a fascinating alternative which is why I ran the numbers. When the Top 30 teams are grouped into 8A, 7A, and 6A it then has a domino effect which affects who would have qualified from the other classes if that makes sense.

I get it but I think it needs to be done with the preseason rankings. What we have at the end is more subjective because it’s skewed by teams playing in the wrong bracket, at least for the first year.

 

[corey90]

This is a half step towards the power points classification and playoffs system I’ve proposed in the past.

I don’t mind it, and I see both approaches aiming to achieve similar classification outcomes, but ratings are subjective and can be manipulated. Would rather take both steps towards a systematic approach.

Nope
It’s rankings that you or I have absolutely nothing to do with.

 

[niualum2002]

This is a half step towards the power points classification and playoffs system I’ve proposed in the past. I don’t mind it, but ratings are subjective and can be manipulated. Would rather take both steps towards a systematic approach.

I remember this and found it very interesting. Having briefly skimmed it for review I believe this was set at the beginning of the season so teams would know their points they would accrue prior to their games.

I think the model proposed in this thread was also supposed to be based off of pre-season rankings as opposed to weekly rankings like I ran so I may have misunderstood.

With that being said, I do think it would be fascinating to have an Illinois Football Playoff Selection Committee of Illinois High School Football writers like Edgy and others meeting say Week 7 and onward like the CFP Committee does at some swanky hotel in Bloomington/Normal ordering in pizzas and such as they try and determine if say a Lincoln-Way East should be ranked higher that week than East St. Louis.

Not saying it would be better...just that it would be absolutely fascinating.

 

[corey90]

I remember this and found it very interesting. Having briefly skimmed it for review I believe this was set at the beginning of the season so teams would know their points they would accrue prior to their games.

I think the model proposed in this thread was also supposed to be based off of pre-season rankings as opposed to weekly rankings like I ran so I may have misunderstood.

With that being said, I do think it would be fascinating to have an Illinois Football Playoff Selection Committee of Illinois High School Football writers like Edgy and others meeting say Week 7 and onward like the CFP Committee does at some swanky hotel in Bloomington/Normal ordering in pizzas and such as they try and determine if say a Lincoln-Way East should be ranked higher that week than East St. Louis.

Not saying it would be better...just that it would be absolutely fascinating.

It really doesn’t matter as long as they are both in the top 10. They would both be in 8A. If you claim to be the best you must play the best. No more second guessing or what ifs! It would be time to put up and prove.

 

[niualum2002]

It really doesn’t matter as long as they are both in the top 10. They would both be in 8A. If you claim to be the best you must play the best. No more second guessing or what ifs! It would be time to put up and prove.

Yes I think both of these models would get our very best into 8A which I think most would want. Loyola, Carmel, Rita, Marist, Rice, ESL, LWE and the rest of the 8A traditional powers? Sign me up for that bracket.

 

[corey90]

Yes I think both of these models would get our very best into 8A which I think most would want. Loyola, Carmel, Rita, Marist, Rice, ESL, LWE and the rest of the 8A traditional powers? Sign me up for that bracket.

It actually wouldn’t hurt the 7A or 6A or any of the others. You play in the bracket your normally in unless you are highly ranked then you move up. You can also see some drop if they fall in the rankings. I mean HF, Sandburg, BB LWC could drop to 7A, 6A etc. or they stay in 8A because the the enrollment.

 

[stonedlizard]

Nope
It’s rankings that you or I have absolutely nothing to do with.

 

[EdgyTim]

Edgy only ranks Chicagoland teams. Who ranks all teams in the state?

Where was Naz ranked this year after a 2-4 start and what class would they have landed in?

Would rankings ever allow IC to play in the 7a or 8a playoffs?

Lena Winslow??

I also rank 8a thru 4a every damn week for what almost 3 decades? Use a formula involve a few othera

 

[Formicidae13]

Illinois is far too big to use any human made rankings. You could try and include rankers from everywhere, but then you end up with the mess we see in AP Polls where people overate teams around them.

 

[BornNRazed]

I came across this article this morning. St Ed’s defeated Springfield in the Ohio state championship. Maybe the privates should create a national FBS league. Television. NIL. The whole bit. Of course I say this in semi jest, but fifteen years from now. We will likely see a form of this as more and more IMGs and Bishop Gorman’s dominate the national stage and of course the all important recruiting. The losing HC laments why his team lost to the “Catholics”.

Marvin Bell, Casey Bullock lead St. Edward to another OHSAA football state championship

Lakewood St. Edward is the king of Ohio high school football in Division I again after beating Springfield again in an OHSAA state final in Canton.

www.cantonrep.com

 

[corey90]

Illinois is far too big to use any human made rankings. You could try and include rankers from everywhere, but then you end up with the mess we see in AP Polls where people overate teams around them.

Disagree
Use a computerized ranking. It doesn’t matter if LA is ranked #1 and MC #6 East 7 ESL 2 they all would be in 8A they are in the top 10.

 

[corey90]

It’s hard to argue because we all know the top programs every year. It would allow these teams to play each other.

 

[jwarigaku]

I get it but I think it needs to be done with the preseason rankings. What we have at the end is more subjective because it’s skewed by teams playing in the wrong bracket, at least for the first year.

I don’t understand how ranking after 9 games of actual play could be less subjective than preseason rankings based on what things look like on paper. That’s why calpreps(epic don’t shot me) model improves as the season moves forward because it’s about every game outcome.

 

[corey90]

I don’t understand how ranking after 9 games of actual play could be less subjective than preseason rankings based on what things look like on paper. That’s why calpreps(epic don’t shot me) model improves as the season moves forward because it’s about every game outcome.

If you use the rankings at the end of the season some teams graduate a ton especially the top 10 ranked teams. Either way I think it still works. We know the top programs and I bet the percentage of times these programs are ranked in the top 10 or 15 is staggering.

 

[Alexander32]

Private schools comprised 12% of the playoff teams this year. They won 76% of their games in head-to-head matchups against public schools, and 75% of the championships. Such results are likely to cause some discontent.

On the other hand, there are only three schools that reached the football semifinals in each of the last five playoffs, and they are all public schools (Lena-Winslow, Rochester and Byron). Sustained success is not experienced solely by private schools.

Ideally any system intended to challenge successful programs should be both simple and transparent. This allows the stakeholders to understand the system, which is the first step in allowing them to support the system. The following is proposed for the football playoffs.

* Use school enrollment (as is currently done) to initially classify each school. Naturally, boys-only schools would be doubled.

* Keep the current multiplier rule in place to establish a baseline class level for each private school.

* Revoke the current success-factor rules and replace them with the following. Before each season the IHSA shall review the last five years of playoffs that were completed. Any private school that appeared in four or more semifinals will be moved up two class levels from their baseline class level. Any public school that appeared in four or more semifinals will be moved up one class level. Any private school that appeared in three semifinals will be moved up one class level from their baseline class level. Of course, no school can be moved up beyond 8A.


That is it; short, simple and transparent. By moving from two years to five years for reviewing success in relation to determining a success factor, one is measuring sustained success rather than short-term success that may be related to one or two outstanding players who then graduate. Libertyville and Gibson City a few years back would be good examples of the latter. The movement in class levels is pre-determined before each season based on a simple algorithm, rather than relying on a committee deliberating behind closed doors or proprietary computer ratings (which use unknown formulas).

Based on this proposed system, the following schools would be moved up for the 2023 playoffs:

Private Schools - Two Class Levels
IC Catholic
Loyola (already in 8A)
Mt. Carmel (one step moves them to 8A)
Nazareth
St. Teresa

Public Schools - One Class Level
Lena-Winslow
Rochester
Byron
Lincoln-Way East (already in 8A)

Private Schools - One Class Level
St. Rita
Marist (already in 8A)
Brother Rice

It seems the schools/programs listed above are the ones that concern most people with respect to whether or not they are properly classified.

In closing, to those who say this debate is moot because the issue hasn't been brought to a vote of IHSA membership, and isn't likely to be brought to a vote in the future, we are reminded that pretty much everything written on this website (Edgy excepted) is irrelevant because nobody who is in a position to make changes listens to anything we have to say. That doesn't mean we ought not write it. It is enjoyable to engage in challenging discussions.

 

[corey90]

Private schools comprised 12% of the playoff teams this year. They won 76% of their games in head-to-head matchups against public schools, and 75% of the championships. Such results are likely to cause some discontent.

On the other hand, there are only three schools that reached the football semifinals in each of the last five playoffs, and they are all public schools (Lena-Winslow, Rochester and Byron). Sustained success is not experienced solely by private schools.

Ideally any system intended to challenge successful programs should be both simple and transparent. This allows the stakeholders to understand the system, which is the first step in allowing them to support the system. The following is proposed for the football playoffs.

* Use school enrollment (as is currently done) to initially classify each school. Naturally, boys-only schools would be doubled.

* Keep the current multiplier rule in place to establish a baseline class level for each private school.

* Revoke the current success-factor rules and replace them with the following. Before each season the IHSA shall review the last five years of playoffs that were completed. Any private school that appeared in four or more semifinals will be moved up two class levels from their baseline class level. Any public school that appeared in four or more semifinals will be moved up one class level. Any private school that appeared in three semifinals will be moved up one class level from their baseline class level. Of course, no school can be moved up beyond 8A.


That is it; short, simple and transparent. By moving from two years to five years for reviewing success in relation to determining a success factor, one is measuring sustained success rather than short-term success that may be related to one or two outstanding players who then graduate. Libertyville and Gibson City a few years back would be good examples of the latter. The movement in class levels is pre-determined before each season based on a simple algorithm, rather than relying on a committee deliberating behind closed doors or proprietary computer ratings (which use unknown formulas).

Based on this proposed system, the following schools would be moved up for the 2023 playoffs:

Private Schools - Two Class Levels
IC Catholic
Loyola (already in 8A)
Mt. Carmel (one step moves them to 8A)
Nazareth
St. Teresa

Public Schools - One Class Level
Lena-Winslow
Rochester
Byron
Lincoln-Way East (already in 8A)

Private Schools - One Class Level
St. Rita
Marist (already in 8A)
Brother Rice

It seems the schools/programs listed above are the ones that concern most people with respect to whether or not they are properly classified.

In closing, to those who say this debate is moot because the issue hasn't been brought to a vote of IHSA membership, and isn't likely to be brought to a vote in the future, we are reminded that pretty much everything written on this website (Edgy excepted) is irrelevant because nobody who is in a position to make changes listens to anything we have to say. That doesn't mean we ought not write it. It is enjoyable to engage in challenging discussions.

Good job Alexander32 but I still don’t like it. The success factor hasn’t worked and it evident this year. Your essentially not changing anything other than saying you will look at the past 5 years if they make the semifinals. I like going to the rankings it puts the top teams in the proper class immediately. I think you get it closer but it’s still doesn’t solve the problem. Rankings make it fair for both Privates and Publics. IMO

 

[Alexander32]

Good job Alexander32 but I still don’t like it. The success factor hasn’t worked and it evident this year. Your essentially not changing anything other than saying you will look at the past 5 years if they make the semifinals. I like going to the rankings it puts the top teams in the proper class immediately. I think you get it closer but it’s still doesn’t solve the problem. Rankings make it fair for both Privates and Publics. IMO

I can respect a difference of opinion, but it is hard to say the success factor hasn't worked as evidenced by this year when it was not in place for this year. The success factor, as it related to the 2022 playoffs, would have applied to any private school that had played in a championship game for both 2019 and 2020. Because there were no playoffs in 2020, that was an impossible criterion to meet and no team had the success factor applied to it this year. In fact, even the multiplier was only partially in place. Instead of having two years to meet that three-victory criterion, schools only had one year to meet it.

The 2022 playoffs were very unique with regard to the success factor and the multiplier, and that might account for why the private schools had so much success this year.

 

[corey90]

I can respect a difference of opinion, but it is hard to say the success factor hasn't worked as evidenced by this year when it was not in place for this year. The success factor, as it related to the 2022 playoffs, would have applied to any private school that had played in a championship game for both 2019 and 2020. Because there were no playoffs in 2020, that was an impossible criterion to meet and no team had the success factor applied to it this year. In fact, even the multiplier was only partially in place. Instead of having two years to meet that three-victory criterion, schools only had one year to meet it.

The 2022 playoffs were very unique with regard to the success factor and the multiplier, and that might account for why the private schools had so much success this year.

I can respect that also but if they went by top 30 rankings the success factor or not wouldn’t matter.
I have a question do you think ESL should be playing in 6A? Wouldn’t everyone like to see them in 8A? I mean they play some of the best teams from around the country out of conference. Why would anyone want them in 5-6A? Heck they would rather be in 8A. How about JCA last year? They were highly ranked then played 4A. They would of played in 8A playoffs last year. ESL or JCA might of won 8A if they played up, I think everyone would agree but we will never know. Under my scenario their is no hiding.