The Bigger Picture: Numbers revised (7/18/17)

[EdgyTim]

I wanted to start a few threads that address some of the bigger issues facing IHSA football and hope that you'll feel free to hop in, discuss and knock around a bit.

Overall numbers are down and while at some schools/programs overall numbers seem to be stabilizing a bit...in way too many cases numbers remain low and in some spots continue to drop at shocking levels.

More and more schools are talking about dropping a level (expect to see more Frosh/soph JV and varsity teams in 2017) to combat the overall lower numbers. That's definitely not a good sign kids.

So why are we seeing lower numbers sport-wide?

You have to start with the entire concussion/safety issue which remains the biggest issue facing the sport hands down. Parents of kids have serious questions and have either not gotten straight answers or automatically have already ruled out football for their sons without even looking further into the entire issues.

The safety issue remains the lead ballon for football on all levels and I honestly don't know how/if/when it can be either answered or at least minimized.

Some coaches will point towards (and rightfully so) the non stop wave of negative pub from media on the entire issue...that other sports at the high school level have similar issues with concussions. While that's true in some cases the overall message remains cloudy at best.

What is scary is that the youth level has been hit harder than any other level of football from an overall numbers issue. For every one youth program that has maintained it's numbers (or a rare few that have grown) you have 4-5 other programs dropping to all time lows in teams and overall kids. Per multiple coaches expect to see more and more youth programs to disappear sooner rather than later.

While some high school coaches (more than you'd think FYI) have at best limited use for youth level football...like it or not lower numbers from the youth level equals lower numbers at the high school level.

Other issues for overall lower football numbers?

Specialization in either one or multiple sports. While everyone liked to preach about the importance of multi-sport athletes (something that I've endorsed from Day 1 FYI) talking the talk is one thing and walking the multi sport walk is another.

Everyone talks about the importance of multi-sport kids and football, but talking about it and actually coaches from say baseball/basketball etc (and yes kids Lacrosse which is starting it's first IHSA sanctioned season in 2017) allowing those kids to miss that all important team summer ball/travel and/or wooden bat league or miss those all important Nike/UA/Addidas showcase hoop camps for football is just a completely different deal.

Need proof? Just go to any recently held football 7on7 team events and you'll be more than likely not seeing at ;least a handful of kids if not more out because of "other sports".

Per one HS coach "They all talk having multi-sport kids...that is as long as they don't miss anything they do for that coach in the off season."

When was the last time any high school needed to go out and actually sell the benefits of football to it's kids? The days of opening the doors and expecting 200 plus kids to come walking through the doors seems to be over. I see way too many coaches sitting back and complaining about the issue without having any sort of game plan to address the issue. Whether it takes a national effort or local effort or both....something has to change and change sooner rather than later. For the first time I can ever remember...coaches need to come together...share ideas and set up new and creative ways to attract kids back to football.

So what's the solution? How can we as a sport attack the issue/problem?

Much like the issue itself it's a multi-faceted deal.

Football needs to get it's act together and get organized- we have so many different levels (NFL/College/HS/Grade School) and just trying to get any sort of organized plan in place is nearly impossible. It's time for one or more of the money ends of football (NFL/College) to get more involved and more hands on.....whether it's via ad dollars/allowing schools and youth groups more "access" to it's facilities....they can do a lot more. Besides say the NFL and NFLPA hosting a once a year camp can they maybe get players out into the communities more? Talk about a great drawing card for youth players...and that can go for college players and coaches as well.

Even from the IHSA perspective...we have the IHSFCA that just seems to have minimal impact at times (again my own observation) when it comes to outside the annual coaches clinic and state finals. Can the IHSFCA get more hands on and more involved?

Coaches need to get creative from December to May- no longer can coaches just open the doors and expect kids to walk in...now more than ever coaches need to find a way of getting kids involved. It doesn't help with with the IHSA rules and off season restrictions hanging over football (again another issue that needs to be addressed/changed ASAP) but coaches can find ways. Such as say a grade school camps or fun nights that are say non-football specific but allows kids to come together, know the coaches and other kids. Play games have kids getting involved before the idea of any football is really introduced...then once they are coming on hopefully a more regular basis then start incorporating more football specific games etc.

Sell the positives of football- football indeed has a ton of positives to sell kids and more importantly parents. Football is still one of the few sports where you don't need to have a ton of youth playing experience. Not every kid can make it onto the 12 man roster in Hoops or the 15-20 baseball roster. Football needs kids and still can develop kids with minimal playing experience. Also sell the positives of teamwork, hard work, dedication, effort and discipline especially to the PARENTS! Sell the fact that those traits are sadly miossing more and more these days...how the real world is looking for more kids with these traits and seeing less and less kids with them. Use alumni especially former players who've gone thru the football program and onto bigger and better things.

Also sell parents on your program and walk them thru a typical practice. Show/teach parents the changes in the sport and how much more focused everyone is now on the safety side. Have current parents/players talk to the new kids and parents as well.

Again these are just a few thoughts....feel free to post any thoughts/suggestions/ideas here.

 

[BBCHS77]

I think something else, and hopefully this doesn't come off as me being a crabby old man, but kids today are lazy and lets face it, football is a tough sport. It's a heck of a lot easier to play baseball or basketball.

 

[godfthr53]

I think something else, and hopefully this doesn't come off as me being a crabby old man, but kids today are lazy and lets face it, football is a tough sport. It's a heck of a lot easier to play baseball or basketball.

football is a job. 6 days a week you need to be engaged and if you're not you find yourself on the training table.

 

[BigJohn34]

I think something else, and hopefully this doesn't come off as me being a crabby old man, but kids today are lazy and lets face it, football is a tough sport. It's a heck of a lot easier to play baseball or basketball.

I agree a little bit with your statement. Also the $ for travel football has gone upwards of 3/4 hundred in some towns. Kids can play soccer or baseball for half that price and play more games. Younger kids (10U ) are playing sports that don't cost mom and dad an arm and a leg.

I would like to see the numbers of kids in programs like Downers Grove, Libertyville, Naperville, Bolingbrook, Crystal Lake etc. Are these numbers down? Most of the time if you don't play as a youngster more than likely not starting in 9th grade.

Baseball/Soccer travel is also expensive, the difference is you play 35-45 games. Football travel is 10? 12?

My youngest boy plays TCYFL and the numbers are down a little from last year. Some are playing more baseball or full year basketball (all want to get Curry contract)

I could be wrong.

 

[Normdog]

For reasons not really understood, Benet had the highest number of students out this year for Varsity in several decades with 72, that was Juniors and Seniors (and including 2 Sophomores who will play up this year). 5 of the Seniors have either not played since Freshman year or ever.

This despite a Benet player suffering a catastrophic injury (paralysis) four years ago at a home game in front of a large crowd. Not really sure why the bump (last year was 51 players), the overall student enrollment is identical to what it has been for several years (at max cap), there is only one transfer and that is a player whose family was transferred for work from out of state. Some of it seems to be from having some success last year, more of it seems to be from a general camaraderie amongst the students. Most of the "new" players won't see the field in a game, they know it and still came out. As a whole, its a bunch that seems to have a lot of fun together. Maybe that is the key, some success mixed with fun wth their fellow students. After 5 weeks of camp, none have dropped out.

This from a school that is not a traditional power or "FB School", its much more a "Basketball School"

The Freshman numbers are the same as they were last year at 41, so don't know if it will translate in future years. The local Catholic JR HS schools that feed to Benet have had to combine their programs last year due to low numbers, so hard to say.

 

[mc140]

A high school football team will never win the battle with travel baseball or basketball. You work around it.

 

[mc140]

There are way too may levels of youth football. There should be a 5/6 grade team and 7/8 team. Rest should be flag.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

There are multiple factors in play (IMO)

1. Injury/Concussion factor
2. Dedication Factor
3. Time Conflict factor.

Injury: It is very tough to address the injury factor. you can toss out stats all day and if a particular parent(s) views Football as "dangerous" from the onset;.....you aren't going to change their mind. Last I heard soccer had more knee injuries than Football and also has concussion risk - but for many "perception is reality" (whatever their initial perception may be is what they stick with)

Dedication: I think Godfather mentioned this above - you have to love the game and be dedicated to putting in the work during the offseason (weight training) and summer camp (pro pad reps). For a lot of kids - they would rather have more free time in the summer versus getting up at 6:30am and grinding for most of the summer. It's interesting - many states do not even allow High School organized practices during the summer. Sure the kids lift 5 days a week and the team leaders organize "practices' that the coaches are not allowed to attend - but it is far less of a time commitment and I wonder if those states have seen the same drop off in numbers?

Time Conflict: Other sports (baseball, wrestling, track, rugby, and now Lacrosse), are all competing for time during the summer. If Coaches really jump on kids that are out a few days here and there for other activities or they get knocked down the depth chart due to missing time and have to work their way back - the kids that are "on the bubble" might just say "the hell with it" and pick one and football might not be the one that is selected.

I think #2 and #3 can be addressed and compromises made to help get #'s back up - but #1 is a very tough hurdle to address for the folks that have already made up their mind...

 

[mmcgraw21]

I really think blame begins with Roger Goodell. Just in the past two years on national TV we've seen stars like Antonio Brown get knocked out in a playoff game and Cam Newton take several unpenalized hits to the head in the season opener. Whenever these bad moments get played up in the NFL, how many parents decide their son is never going to play football -- 100,000? The best way to clean up the game is to consistently suspend illegal hits in the NFL, which Goodell has failed to do. Hopefully this attitude would trickle down to the idiot high school and youth coaches who act like the object of football is to injure the opponent. It's a great game that can continue to thrive, but it headed down a bad path the past few years.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I really think blame begins with Roger Goodell. Just in the past two years on national TV we've seen stars like Antonio Brown get knocked out in a playoff game and Cam Newton take several unpenalized hits to the head in the season opener. Whenever these bad moments get played up in the NFL, how many parents decide their son is never going to play football -- 100,000? The best way to clean up the game is to consistently suspend illegal hits in the NFL, which Goodell has failed to do. Hopefully this attitude would trickle down to the idiot high school and youth coaches who act like the object of football is to injure the opponent. It's a great game that can continue to thrive, but it headed down a bad path the past few years.

I see what you are saying and don't disagree but we are now learning it is not just those "huge hits" that is causing the head injuries. It is the constant banging of your brain against your skull. If I had the answer I wouldn't be on here, I'd be on a beach on my own island!

 

[FalconPadre]

A high school football team will never win the battle with travel baseball or basketball. You work around it.

Basketball maybe but travel baseball is not much of an impact on high school football. Youth is a different story as some parents are opting for fall baseball now instead of football.

 

[woody6]

Regarding the decline of youth level numbers, I point to 3 factors: travel baseball, youth football itself and lacrosse.

• The scope of commitment for travel baseball just may not leave "enough in the tank" for players and families at the conclusion of that season.
• The 5 or 6 day a week grind in youth football before school starts in the heat and humidity of July and August has marginal appeal. By the way, any "acclimatization" mandates in place universally at that level? Additionally, that season can exceed the HS campaign in duration.
• Relative to lacrosse ... just look around most youth fields these days.

 

[McCaravan]

What I see is that kids are quitting the sport very quickly nowadays if they aren't getting immediate playing time and parents are letting them quit. Gone is the pride of being part of a team...gone is the "work harder" attitude. I was raised in an era where parents didn't allow you to quit, and maybe some of us didn't like that growing up and let our kids quit on command. Parents will blame coaches, call it politics, say their son "got screwed" and some cases politics does play a part, but gone is "hang in there, try harder"...they just quit playing. 8 out of 10 parents who I ask why their son isn't playing football anymore will say "he was tired of going to practice everyday and not getting in the game much"

 

[EdgyTim]

What I see is that kids are quitting the sport very quickly nowadays if they aren't getting immediate playing time and parents are letting them quit. Gone is the pride of being part of a team...gone is the "work harder" attitude. I was raised in an era where parents didn't allow you to quit, and maybe some of us didn't like that growing up and let our kids quit on command. Parents will blame coaches, call it politics, say their son "got screwed" and some cases politics does play a part, but gone is "hang in there, try harder"...they just quit playing. 8 out of 10 parents who I ask why their son isn't playing football anymore will say "he was tired of going to practice everyday and not getting in the game much"

Ok 100 percent agree.....but how do you try to change that around? It's either that or we all continue to see numbers decline...thoughts???

 

[pjjp]

I don't blame coaches for not doing the "hard sell" on kids. As others have stated, you really have to want to play the game. If you go out on the field with a half-hearted interest, it's a sport where you can easily incur physical harm. The kid has to really want to play. IMO, that "want to" is not something that can be instilled.

 

[eagles2k3]

Big thing I see nowadays too is parents trying to find the one sport there kid could have success at and leaving everything else behind so they can just focus on that sport. It's unreal. They can't have their kid play three sports because they won't be all conference in the sport they're decent at. Big one around the nw burbs is baseball. I've seen a lot of kids go all in at baseball so they can say they're going d1 but most of the time it's a walk on spot on a roster of 36.

 

[cornerrat]

All.... Fwiw the powers that be are fighting back. Last night on Channel 64 (Comcast Sports/ Chicago) I saw a well made commercial promoting JFL football.(Pop Warner) Among other things in the clip they talked about addressing the concussion issue and how through education are promoting more safety in the sport. Ratsy

 

[FalconPadre]

Big thing I see nowadays too is parents trying to find the one sport there kid could have success at and leaving everything else behind so they can just focus on that sport. It's unreal. They can't have their kid play three sports because they won't be all conference in the sport they're decent at. Big one around the nw burbs is baseball. I've seen a lot of kids go all in at baseball so they can say they're going d1 but most of the time it's a walk on spot on a roster of 36.

I find that more coaches nowadays at the high school level are starting to push multiple sports. The club coaches are another story. My youngest son plays three sports and has never had a problem from his high school coaches. The clubs have a monetary motive on one hand to keep their players going all year round and the cash flow that brings. Plus the bragging rights if the kid gets a scholarship, etc. Would my son be an higher level player if he just played one sport? Possibly but he would be miserable probably too just doing the same sport all year. So IMHO it is the clubs being the problem more then the schools.

 

[McCaravan]

Ok 100 percent agree.....but how do you try to change that around? It's either that or we all continue to see numbers decline...thoughts???

Edgy this "Every kid gets a trophy" movement is a strong one. I don't know what we can do. I've been coaching for years, a lot of people hide behind the fear of concussion excuse but I can talk all day long that it's because of their kids playing time, or lack there of. Freshman teams are already having 5th quarters or B unit games to get kids playing time, those just upset parents more and they complain that they should have been in the first unit game....I don't see this ending

 

[McCaravan]

Funny thing is football rarely makes cuts anymore....baseball and basketball? They absolutely make cuts, but not football, not if they have a full staff. So it's a guarenteed letter for your son and something he can put in his college resume and hopefully have a positive experience, and make some great friends while he's at it... A friend of mine at MC said "We have 99 #'s...when we have 100 kids come out for football, then we'll have to cut 1.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Funny thing is football rarely makes cuts anymore....baseball and basketball? They absolutely make cuts, but not football, not if they have a full staff. So it's a guarenteed letter for your son and something he can put in his college resume and hopefully have a positive experience, and make some great friends while he's at it... A friend of mine at MC said "We have 99 #'s...when we have 100 kids come out for football, then we'll have to cut 1.

and they wouldn't cut one kid....

 

[eagles2k3]

and they wouldn't cut one kid....

He's the kid who would get the jersey from the 90s.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

He's the kid who would get the jersey from the 90s.

Double zero - OO would be a fantastic jersey number. Does anyone know if OO is allowed to touch the ball?

Need a Refs ruling!! If a player had on 0 or 00 as a jersey number are they legal to tough the ball as a skill player? WR, RB etc.

 

[Zebra]

Double zero - OO would be a fantastic jersey number. Does anyone know if OO is allowed to touch the ball?

Need a Refs ruling!! If a player had on 0 or 00 as a jersey number are they legal to tough the ball as a skill player? WR, RB etc.

Both 0 and 00 are not legal for any player to wear on a high school field. Rule 1-4-3. . . Each player shall be numbered 1 through 99 inclusive.

Z

 

[penlight]

IMHO, Rule 1-4-3 should be: ..... numbered 2 through 99 inclusive.
The jersey number 1 has no place in a team sport.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Both 0 and 00 are not legal for any player to wear on a high school field. Rule 1-4-3. . . Each player shall be numbered 1 through 99 inclusive.

Z

Thanks Mr Z!! I had a feeling it might not be allowed....

 

[Oldcoach32]

As has been stated, it is a dramatic cultural change, encompassing many intangibles. From kids today
Being more comfortable with the electronic age with all of its toys, many single parent homes that are more cautious about foot
Ball and potential for injury, and I believe a major impact is the fact kids have many
More options, back in the day, you joined football or watched from the stands on Friday night, then came guys soccer, then guys volleyball, then fall baseball, year round AAU basketball, now lacrossse. And I agree with others that a kid is being told by his club coach why risk injury or sit on the bench when you can play more with us.

I think the best we can do right now is be aggressive in selling our sport, and realize that numbers stability might have to be the best we can hope for in the short term.

As with many aspects of our culture, I feel he "good old days" of football may be over.

As a teacher I can attest also to the fact work ethic in many areas is at an all time low. Not just trophies for All, it wanting instead of earning good grades, equal distribution of everything seems to be today's mantra. It is at times frustrating and disappointing. Not the way many of us were brought up I am sure.

 

[AllieShades]

Feed them-BBQ, pizza party, etc....make it Showbiz Pizza time
Less is more-with not only players but coaches....gotta keep good guys coaching
Don't forget or lose sight that your working with teenagers. Kids make emotional decisions give them the chance to come back...the whole "I'm not sacrificing my beliefs...blah blah blah" is overrated
Don't condition the "rosey" cheek kids on freshmen...this isn't cross country Junction Boys get them hooked first
Make the most of the first impression from the most important person...mom. Rely on what you learned Wednesday nights at Pub 2 or Pinch Penny
You have to earn the right to rip their @ss now
Don't forget how you were as a young lad and what you were worried about first and foremost...Shoot I'm still more worried about...I'll stop there
Power of a certificate-it's corny but kids still love seeing their names on perfect attendance certificates and other incentive certificates
Power of the pen-hand write thank you letters to parents, former players, 8th grade gym teachers helping you find kids, hand write every swinging you know what that you want them out for freshmen football, you name it write a letter and see the power of pen work
Propaganda-so many examples now out there to steal on social media... for example .like the LeBron James playing football pics in high school
Power of the sticker-see the corniness of certificate
Make football and summer camp a carnival ride,
Tshirts
Feed them again
Go away as a team for summer-Create some sort of team bonding experience
Individual attention-meetings with kids, meetings with parents
Feed them again.....maybe have sparklers at the function
Social media-another example of coaches really utilizing this one
Lie to them-make snowflake believe he's important and three notches above what he can contribute..call home and tell their parents we need your son....your son plays a vital role in this program...football is a numbers game and you need every kid walking the halls. You wanna earn the help of your admin and get them to value football have them see a loaded sidelines on Friday...many of these admin people don't know if it's stuffed or pumped but they wanna see these knuckleheads participating and happy and be a part of something
Feed them maybe throw in some ice cream now-can even play some Van Halen that day
Realize that head coaches are overrated it's a players game, based on the community you draw from, and the guys you can attract and keep coaching with you...that's the lifeblood....without good coaches the head coaches are nothing. Majority of the time the players connect more with the coaches not head coach.


I think a huge crisis in regards to this issue and could be a whole other thread is coming down to coaches and keeping guys coaching. There are a ton of coaches out there working hard for kids. Coaches have had to always sacrifice their families. That's tough but it's a necessary evil....and only way you can make this thing work. Maybe the dynamic with families/wives has changed as well where a lot of these coaches can't devote the time like the old timers use to because maybe wives were a little more understanding I don't know. You hear guys say I need to spend more time with my family. There are some coaches who are addicts to this thing and keep coming back for more but it's tough for a lot because with pressure at home and teacher pay they are becoming few and far between.

 

[EdgyTim]

Feed them-BBQ, pizza party, etc....make it Showbiz Pizza time
Less is more-with not only players but coaches....gotta keep good guys coaching
Don't forget or lose sight that your working with teenagers. Kids make emotional decisions give them the chance to come back...the whole "I'm not sacrificing my beliefs...blah blah blah" is overrated
Don't condition the "rosey" cheek kids on freshmen...this isn't cross country Junction Boys get them hooked first
Make the most of the first impression from the most important person...mom. Rely on what you learned Wednesday nights at Pub 2 or Pinch Penny
You have to earn the right to rip their @ss now
Don't forget how you were as a young lad and what you were worried about first and foremost...Shoot I'm still more worried about...I'll stop there
Power of a certificate-it's corny but kids still love seeing their names on perfect attendance certificates and other incentive certificates
Power of the pen-hand write thank you letters to parents, former players, 8th grade gym teachers helping you find kids, hand write every swinging you know what that you want them out for freshmen football, you name it write a letter and see the power of pen work
Propaganda-so many examples now out there to steal on social media... for example .like the LeBron James playing football pics in high school
Power of the sticker-see the corniness of certificate
Make football and summer camp a carnival ride,
Tshirts
Feed them again
Go away as a team for summer-Create some sort of team bonding experience
Individual attention-meetings with kids, meetings with parents
Feed them again.....maybe have sparklers at the function
Social media-another example of coaches really utilizing this one
Lie to them-make snowflake believe he's important and three notches above what he can contribute..call home and tell their parents we need your son....your son plays a vital role in this program...football is a numbers game and you need every kid walking the halls. You wanna earn the help of your admin and get them to value football have them see a loaded sidelines on Friday...many of these admin people don't know if it's stuffed or pumped but they wanna see these knuckleheads participating and happy and be a part of something
Feed them maybe throw in some ice cream now-can even play some Van Halen that day
Realize that head coaches are overrated it's a players game, based on the community you draw from, and the guys you can attract and keep coaching with you...that's the lifeblood....without good coaches the head coaches are nothing. Majority of the time the players connect more with the coaches not head coach.


I think a huge crisis in regards to this issue and could be a whole other thread is coming down to coaches and keeping guys coaching. There are a ton of coaches out there working hard for kids. Coaches have had to always sacrifice their families. That's tough but it's a necessary evil....and only way you can make this thing work. Maybe the dynamic with families/wives has changed as well where a lot of these coaches can't devote the time like the old timers use to because maybe wives were a little more understanding I don't know. You hear guys say I need to spend more time with my family. There are some coaches who are addicts to this thing and keep coming back for more but it's tough for a lot because with pressure at home and teacher pay they are becoming few and far between.

Terrific stuff here's