Scheduling|Playoffs|Seeding

[colin2229]

Won’t every program want to play the easiest schedule possible since it will be more difficult to make the playoffs?

If playoffs are only 3 weeks - that equals 8 teams per class make the playoffs.

If the IHSA uses the traditional wins/playoff points equation to get seeding...do whatever you have to do to play the easiest schedule possible and get wins. No 5-4, 6-3,7-2 would qualify in normalizing years. Heck, some 8-1’s wouldn’t make it either.

Personally, this isn’t gonna work. This year, please have a selection committee to rank the top 8 teams to qualify for the playoffs

 

[mates1]

Forget any playoffs/regional tournaments and just try to salvage as much of your current 9-game schedule that exists now? This is already structured to declare a conference champion and most of the games are geographically close as they stand.

 

[colin2229]

Must be a conference champ to qualify for playoffs makes sense. Will still need to dwindle the number down after that

 

[Bowie50]

Must be a conference champ to qualify for playoffs makes sense. Will still need window the number down after that

What about conferences like the CCL Blue? Every team in that conference could win a state championship.

 

[ClownBaby]

Playoffs don’t work with the way the schedule is set up 6 games regular season and 3 game playoff plus it sounds like it has regional restriction?

Here is an idea since things are supposed to be local take the top 16 teams in Dupage County after 6 weeks, split them into two classes by enrollment and have a county championship.

NC
NN
GW
HC
DGN
Willowbrook
WWS
GBN
St Francis
IC
Montini
Glenbard South
Glenbard East
Benet
York/ DGS/ WN

I think it would be great to have a local playoff and there are plenty of great rivalry games in there people would be excited about.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

What about conferences like the CCL Blue? Every team in that conference could win a state championship.

Conferences like the CCL Blue were definitely NOT designed for situations where only the conference champ would make the playoffs. Yes there would be 4-5 teams in that conference alone that would not make the playoffs but would be better than 60-70% of the teams that did.

 

[King MJ]

my understanding is that any playoffs would be regional and there woudl be no "state" champions so more teams could make playoffs

 

[colin2229]

I like the idea of what AZ does in having what they call "The Playoffs".

They have a ranking system and the top 8 schools are put into "The Playoff" to see who is the best team in the state. No need to settle if ESL, Mt. Carmel, Naz, Rochester, etc are the best. No matter of class, the top 8 go settle it in a true playoff.

The rest of the schools can go play regional or 1A-8A playoffs of 8 teams this year.

 

[colin2229]

What about conferences like the CCL Blue? Every team in that conference could win a state championship.

It's fair that they all got to play each other through out the year and a true champion was named. Not ideal but it is what it is. Same thing the SEC goes through most every year.

 

[ClownBaby]

my understanding is that any playoffs would be regional and there woudl be no "state" champions so more teams could make playoffs

One thing I would like to see since there won’t be state series and the regular season is only 6 games is that eliminated teams are given the option to schedule games with other eliminated teams during those last 3 weeks.

 

[BataviaDogs1]

One thing I would like to see since there won’t be state series and the regular season is only 6 games is that eliminated teams are given the option to schedule games with other eliminated teams during those last 3 weeks.

This! Eight teams per class get in. Now, how and which 8 teams get in is up for discussion.

Is the “playoffs” set in stone and settled? What does “at minimum” mean? Can there be more playoff games with some overlap into summer seasons occurring for some schools that go far into playoffs? For example, state championship week would be the only overlap week into summer season.

 

[cornerrat]

One thing I would like to see since there won’t be state series and the regular season is only 6 games is that eliminated teams are given the option to schedule games with other eliminated teams during those last 3 weeks.

All.... I'm all for more playoff games. But reading different articles and hearing coaches on the radio is the regular season definitely six games? I keep hearing 6 or 7. Ratsy

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

Does the definition of a "conference" with automatic qualifier change...right now you need 6 teams to be an automatic qualifier...So your 4 team CCL divisions will have no automatic qualifier...Do all the 8 team conferences get to divide into two 4 team conferences with an automatic qualifier from each...

I'm thinking that, barring a vaccine & effective treatment (which the governor is hung up on), football & wrestling won't get past level 3, which will allow regional games but not a state wide tournament. So it looks to me that the likely result is still going to be 32 teams per class making the playoffs, but each quad will be a "regional state title". Obviously, the hard core will be offended by the concept of 32 regional state champions...but the options are not good no matter what. Some might just prefer 9 games and conference titles. And unfortunately some regions are going to include Chicago teams...

Or the 6/7 game issue is determined by 64 teams per class, 8 regional brackets per class, 512 teams - everyone makes the playoffs basically, 8 regional champs per class...everybody plays a 7th game. 64 "regional champions" trophies...participation trophies everywhere...

 

[Illgold22]

I have seen this somewhere before, but this year only have Sponsored “Bowl Games”. Each sponsor can pick team they invite to play. Get some money to the schools. Take last year. We could have had LW East playing East St Louis in the Pepsi bowl at Illinois state. Do that this season. Try and get 50 sponsors to host 50 bowl games. For 1 season it could be fun?!?

 

[CaravanMan]

I'm sorry to ask because I'm a dolt and there is just too much to keep up with but will there be 1-8A state title games?

 

[PowerI66]

I'm sorry to ask because I'm a dolt and there is just too much to keep up with but will there be 1-8A state title games?

The only thing they said in the document released is that "...a 7 game regular season followed by a regional post season at minimum.

 

[EdgyTim]

The only thing they said in the document released is that "...a 7 game regular season followed by a regional post season at minimum.

I don't ever remember anything mentioned about "at minimum".It will be 2 weeks of a post-season only no state titles awarded no games at NIU or Illinois either.

 

[PowerI66]

I don't ever remember anything mentioned about "at minimum".It will be 2 weeks of a post-season only no state titles awarded no games at NIU or Illinois either.

Not sure how to add my own picture, but it says it in the bullet point under the Feb 15 - May 1 listing of sports

 

[Alexander32]

Assign 64 teams to each class, 8A through 2A, with the remaining teams (smallest schools) assigned to 1A. Then divide the 64 teams in each class into 8 geographic regions with 8 teams in each region. Each region is then randomly bracketed into quarterfinals, and the first three games of the season are played to determine the ranking (1 thru 8) of the teams within each region.

Games 4, 5 and 6 of the season are played to determine playoff qualifiers and the seedings for the playoffs. The first place teams from each region are bracketed regionally into a quarterfinal playoff, the second place teams would similarly play each other in a quarterfinal playoff, and the third place teams, and so on down the line. This will provide for very competitive games since, for example, games 4, 5 and 6 for an eighth place team will all be played against other eighth place teams.

After this six-game regular season is played, the playoff teams will be selected and seeded as follows. The top five finishers among the eight first place teams will qualify for the playoffs and be seeded 1 through 5. The champion of the second-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 6th. The champion of the third-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 7th. And the champion of the fifth-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 8th. Those eight teams will play for the state championship within their particular class.

As an example of how this might look, the 8A playoff bracket could reasonably look like this:

(1) Lincoln-Way East (6-0)
(8) Fremd (5-1)

(4) Homewood-Flossmoor (4-2)
(5) Loyola (5-1)

(3) Glenbard West (5-1)
(6) Marist (5-1)

(2) Maine South (5-1)
(7) Brother Rice (5-1)

 

[Bowie50]

Assign 64 teams to each class, 8A through 2A, with the remaining teams (smallest schools) assigned to 1A. Then divide the 64 teams in each class into 8 geographic regions with 8 teams in each region. Each region is then randomly bracketed into quarterfinals, and the first three games of the season are played to determine the ranking (1 thru 8) for each region.

Games 4, 5 and 6 of the season are played to determine playoff qualifiers and the seedings for the playoffs. The first place teams from each region are bracketed regionally into a quarterfinal playoff, the second place teams would similarly play each other in a quarterfinal playoff, and the third place teams, and so on down the line. This will provide for very competitive games since, for example, games 4, 5 and 6 for an eighth place team will all be played against other eighth place teams.

After this six-game regular season is played, the playoff teams will be selected and seeded as follows. The top five finishers among the eight first place teams will qualify for the playoffs and be seeded 1 through 5. The champion of the second-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 6th. The champion of the third-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 7th. And the champion of the fifth-place finishers will qualify and be seeded 8th. Those eight teams will play for the state championship within their particular class.

As an example of how this might look, the 8A playoff bracket could reasonably look like this:

(1) Lincoln-Way East (6-0)
(8) Fremd (5-1)

(4) Homewood-Flossmoor (4-2)
(5) Loyola (5-1)

(3) Glenbard West (5-1)
(6) Marist (5-1)

(2) Maine South (5-1)
(7) Brother Rice (5-1)

We need to discuss your hypothetical seeding

 

[EdgyTim]

FYI the info given to the media was different than what the ADs received....so I guess at minimum is a good thing.

 

[JCHillmen]

I realize they kept playoff plans intentionally vague. But just wondering what the consensus is here. Will these be playoffs you have to qualify for? Will they be predetermined districts where everyone gets in? Or perhaps a playoff for over .500 teams and a consolation playoff?

I suppose I am hoping for the last option. Make the real playoffs all teams that are at least .500 or better, and therefore no 6-0 vs 0-6 mismatches. But give the teams that don’t qualify their own tournament just to give them more than the 6 games.

 

[JCHillmen]

I realize they kept playoff plans intentionally vague. But just wondering what the consensus is here. Will these be playoffs you have to qualify for? Will they be predetermined districts where everyone gets in? Or perhaps a playoff for over .500 teams and a consolation playoff?

I suppose I am hoping for the last option. Make the real playoffs all teams that are at least .500 or better, and therefore no 6-0 vs 0-6 mismatches. But give the teams that don’t qualify their own tournament just to give them more than the 6 games.

Just spitballing here. Take the 500 schools and divide into 8 classes for 62 to 64 per class. Divide each class into four sectionals of 15 to 16. Top 8 records in each sectional go to playoff. Bottom 7 or 8 go to consolation playoff or just have their season end.

 

[Alexander32]

We need to discuss your hypothetical seeding

The seeding does not reflect how good I think the teams might be, but, instead, how well the teams played in games 4, 5 and 6 of the regular season. I took the liberty of creating one 8A region exclusively comprised of Chicago area catholic schools in order to retain some traditional Catholic League games during the first three games of the season. I assumed Loyola finished first in that region, Marist second, and Brother Rice third. Loyola is seeded 5th for the playoffs because in my mock scheduling they lost their fourth game of the season to Lincoln-Way East.

The main point is that this system of scheduling provides for a very meaningful six-game regular season; and then adds to that a three-game playoff likely to include the best teams in the class based on actual results played out on the field. Regardless of seeding, with the exception of Fremd, the other 7 teams in the mock 8A playoff could easily be among the eight best teams in 8A this coming season.

 

[Alexander32]

Just spitballing here. Take the 500 schools and divide into 8 classes for 62 to 64 per class. Divide each class into four sectionals of 15 to 16. Top 8 records in each sectional go to playoff. Bottom 7 or 8 go to consolation playoff or just have their season end.

Based on the condensed length of the season, I think the IHSA may be trying to reduce the number of playoff games. Your proposal still retains the same 5-game playoff format that has traditionally been played, and does not reduce the number of playoff games.

 

[JCHillmen]

Based on the condensed length of the season, I think the IHSA may be trying to reduce the number of playoff games. Your proposal still retains the same 5-game playoff format that has traditionally been played, and does not reduce the number of playoff games.

no I believe they would just play sectionals. Essentially four 8 team tournaments per class and 4 “champions” crowned . 3 game playoff

not saying it’s my ideal just that I’m sure they’re not planning on crowning any actual state champs this year so this is the likely route here.

 

[scottjewson]

Haven’t they already said that they will likely not crown state champions? So if not, why have playoffs at all? Let all the teams get 8-9 games.

 

[johnndoe]

It would seem more equitable to give all teams access to an 8 or 9 game season w/o playoffs than be guaranteed only 6 games with a certain number advancing to some form of diluted off-season competition. And eliminated teams forming their own extra game(s) schedule seems really just an untenable afterthought realistically.

 

[JCHillmen]

It would seem more equitable to give all teams access to an 8 or 9 game season w/o playoffs than be guaranteed only 6 games with a certain number advancing to some form of diluted off-season competition. And eliminated teams forming their own extra game(s) schedule seems really just an untenable afterthought realistically.

I am in agreement. I believe the shortened postseason is likely only so the IHSA can get a cut of the gate of a few postseason games. Otherwise, they raise no revenue and further their financial difficulties.

So I am sure that is the reason they want some type of postseason. But I agree and I think we all can, we would rather have 9 games for all and no postseason than 6 games guaranteed and some kind of weird half postseason.

 

[Dmorris82]

I think the IHSA is preparing themselves for a worst case scenario when it comes to spring football. In part they know a typical schedule of regular season games without play-offs means no revenue for the IHSA. On the other side if they float the idea of 6 to 7 games and 2 rounds of play-off it shifts the burden to the schools but they get 2 rounds of gate fee's and the schools get whatever increased revenue from hosting a play-off game, concessions, and play-off gear. I think the by not having a state championship they will save money. Let's be honest here for a second. The IHSA did about the best they could considering the alternative was to have their decision overruled. Who knows where will be in 6 months and if there is any chance ticket sales from a state championship series will be close to the norm there will be a state championship series. If there are restrictions on attendance to games in the spring there is no way they can afford to propose any type of tournament where the IHSA losses any more money than they already are projected to loose from 2020.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I think the IHSA is preparing themselves for a worst case scenario when it comes to spring football. In part they know a typical schedule of regular season games without play-offs means no revenue for the IHSA. On the other side if they float the idea of 6 to 7 games and 2 rounds of play-off it shifts the burden to the schools but they get 2 rounds of gate fee's and the schools get whatever increased revenue from hosting a play-off game, concessions, and play-off gear. I think the by not having a state championship they will save money. Let's be honest here for a second. The IHSA did about the best they could considering the alternative was to have their decision overruled. Who knows where will be in 6 months and if there is any chance ticket sales from a state championship series will be close to the norm there will be a state championship series. If there are restrictions on attendance to games in the spring there is no way they can afford to propose any type of tournament where the IHSA losses any more money than they already are projected to loose from 2020.

IHSA never said they weren’t having a championship. What they said was it will be difficult under the CURRENT guidelines. If we are playing football, the regional guidelines will be lifted. If they are still in place, we won’t be playing football. The minimum two playoff games are a worst case scenario.

On another note, for kids, playoffs is way more important than regular season games!! They would rather play 4 regular season games with 5 rounds of championship football than 9 regular season game.

 

[ignazio]

Boy, I sure hope all these restrictions are in place for the basketball season: 6 games, regional playoffs, no champions.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Boy, I sure hope all these restrictions are in place for the basketball season: 6 games, regional playoffs, no champions.

Basketball has similar adjustments. Neither say NO championship!

 

[ignazio]

Basketball has similar adjustments. Neither say NO championship!

All those kids, sharing the same ball, close proximity, contact, enclosed space?
It would be hypocritical and unsafe if we weren’t to have the same safety protections for them.

 

[PowerI66]

Boy, I sure hope all these restrictions are in place for the basketball season: 6 games, regional playoffs, no champions.

Basketball will be able to play roughly 26 games and the state series is "TBD"

 

[4Anorth]

Listen at about the 2:30 mark...

 

[LHSTigers94]

Listen at about the 2:30 mark...

View embedded media

I’ve heard this before. What are we listening for in particular?

 

[4Anorth]

Congratulations the 2020 "Culminating Experience" champs.

They didn't say no state championships, but not even close to saying yes either.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Congratulations the 2020 "Culminating Experience" champs.

They didn't say no state championships, but not even close to saying yes either.

based on the CURRENT guidelines. How can you have a state championship with only regional play allowed? My point is when football is played (which is when almost all of the restrictions are lifted) there will be a state series as the regional restriction will be lifted.

This is why moving to the spring was a great move that allows time. There is no way we get that far in the fall.

 

[JCHillmen]

based on the CURRENT guidelines. How can you have a state championship with only regional play allowed? My point is when football is played (which is when almost all of the restrictions are lifted) there will be a state series as the regional restriction will be lifted.

This is why moving to the spring was a great move that allows time. There is no way we get that far in the fall.

Not happening in my opinion. That would likely cause football season to extend by two weeks into spring sports. They just won’t do that to spring sports, who are already complaining about getting the short end.