can a highschool coach from a private school call the parents of an 8th grader and recruit their kid into that private school? Specifically mentioning the youth's skill at a certain sport and how that kid would "fit in" at that highschool?
Recruiting question
- Thread starter downersdad
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There's lots of variables that go into it that you haven't mentioned. So could be yes or no answer.
Do the ethics or legality of the call the differ for you if the coach were from a private or public school?
In 2013 my son got a call (on home phone, SON answered) from a Private School Head Coach 2 days before the entrance exam. The coach said he heard SON was taking the exam at School X. My SON said yes he was taking the exam at Z. X's coach said he had big plans on the football field for my SON. My SON that is nice to hear but I want to go to Z. Coach said I wish you luck wherever you end up.
SON went to Z. Started for two years on varsity. Beat X in the one time playing against them.
I saw nothing wrong with the call. He promised my son nothing. Private schools need to recruit to stay open.
SON went to Z. Started for two years on varsity. Beat X in the one time playing against them.
I saw nothing wrong with the call. He promised my son nothing. Private schools need to recruit to stay open.
Thus the problem, a coach committed a blatant rules violation and you saw nothing wrong with it. And maybe not a big issue in this case when its recruiting school vs recruiting school.
When I was in 8th grade just before the entrance exam, I got a call from the Catholic school reminding me of the high tuition, long commute, etc.
I showed up anyway.
I showed up anyway.
Called by the same school you were testing at or by a rival school? That's some SEC style dis-recruiting (pulling scholarships away) if it's the former. That's what Rita is going to do to it's one earner household recruits if they become like Malvern Prep (a rumor from earlier this year).
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
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I don't see a Blatant rule violation. There has to be more to determine if this is a violation. You don't know if the student or family initiated the first contact which would make this contact perfectly legal per IHSA 3.073. If this was a "cold call" never talked to the kid before yes illegal.
Even that's a gray area and he was treated as a prospective athlete, not student
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
ESCC - I refer you to the IHSA ByLaws section 3.070-3.073.
3.073 It shall also be a violation of this rule to induce or attempt to induce or encourage any prospective student to attend any member school for the purpose of participating in athletics even when special remuneration or inducement is not given.
This is pretty clear.
(I should have this in a separate doc since I have posted it NUMEROUS time for those who are uninformed)
3.073 It shall also be a violation of this rule to induce or attempt to induce or encourage any prospective student to attend any member school for the purpose of participating in athletics even when special remuneration or inducement is not given.
This is pretty clear.
(I should have this in a separate doc since I have posted it NUMEROUS time for those who are uninformed)
I too have the whole rule book. Why didn't you include the next line ?
Schools are not prohibited from conducting academic recruitment programs, programs which may include information
concerning the school’s extracurricular offerings.
There would need to be so much more to this to draw the conclusion that it is illegal.
I'm sure all the good coaches know how to do it.
Get names and number via an open house, youth jamboree etc. This would constitute student athlete initiating contact. So now coaches can contact whenever they want because they aren't initiating contact. Mention the schools academics, talk about the athletic programs and another extra curricular. Now everything is by the book.
Look, we all know it happens. Why do we act so shocked when we hear about this and start pulling out rule books? If you have a problem with your kid being recruited or you have factual evidence that recruiting is going on, report it to the IHSA and see where it goes. If they think its a violation, they will do something about it. If they don't think it violates the rules, they will drop it. I'm shocked that posters here think that private schools just sit back and wait for the kids to walk in the doors. Even more so, that public schools wait and see who shows. In my town, the public school coaches are at just as many events as the private school coaches. I see them all talking to parents, kids, youth coaches, etc. That's what has to be done to get kids now-a-days. Do you really think the Catholic HS Head Football Coach is calling your house to talk to you and your kid about their great science labs and how engaging the theology classes are? Give me a break. Last I checked, not too many recruiters at the Chess Club matches or Tech Club Gaming events talking to kids about the great academics at ------ Catholic High.
Don't we have this same thread every year with the same people writing the same things?
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
Because a coach calling a kid about his program is not a school conducting an academic recruitment program.
As long as the coach has talked academic and other extra curriculars this is 100% legal. But it doesn't need to be talked about every time.
So when Coach Zvonar host the Frankfort Falcons at LWE to talk about football which he does every year. Is this legal or the gray area you speak of. I'm sure he doesn't mention coming to LWE at all.
So when Coach Zvonar host the Frankfort Falcons at LWE to talk about football which he does every year. Is this legal or the gray area you speak of. I'm sure he doesn't mention coming to LWE at all.
What about when High Schools contact one of the best players in the state trying to get them to transfer in because they need a QB?
If recruiting a kid for athletics is illegal according to the IHSA, then all high school coaches should be banned from all youth sports and should not be allowed any contact with youths or their parents. None of them are talking to that kid/family for academics.
Truth is, the IHSA knows it happens, knows it is going to happen, no matter what they put in the rule books. Until parents start recording or documenting these "conversations" and reporting the coaches, the IHSA can't do anything about it. But, most parents get off on their kid being recruited. They love it. They feel accomplished and proud that their kid is wanted somewhere and, in some cases, are going to get "financial help" to send them their. So, that's why nothing happens when rules are broken, because the parents are not doing anything about it. Personally, I would not like if an adult was consistently calling and texting my junior high child. Doesn't seem right.
Truth is, the IHSA knows it happens, knows it is going to happen, no matter what they put in the rule books. Until parents start recording or documenting these "conversations" and reporting the coaches, the IHSA can't do anything about it. But, most parents get off on their kid being recruited. They love it. They feel accomplished and proud that their kid is wanted somewhere and, in some cases, are going to get "financial help" to send them their. So, that's why nothing happens when rules are broken, because the parents are not doing anything about it. Personally, I would not like if an adult was consistently calling and texting my junior high child. Doesn't seem right.
BINGO! I have said this about other topics that appear over and over right here with the same people saying the same things. You win the award for, "The Best Post of the Week."
I dream of the day when there are two separate leagues and this discussion is over. No public vs. private anymore. The publics play the publics and the privates play the privates. What will we talk about then?!?
I think you need to calmly step back and take a close look at what you just wrote. I don't know you, but I find it real hard to believe anyone could be this naive. I am sure you aren't.
But there is no way in hell this discussion is going to end simply by separating publics from privates. I think new discussions and arguments will begin if that happens.
You will always have the "recruiting debate" whether publics and privates against each other or not. Recruiting or alleged recruiting will still go on from both sides. Separating the two won't change a thing.
The new argument that will start will be something like someone saying:"privates are better than publics and IF we played you we would prove it." That argument could go both ways. We get that now when certain schools don't play each other but some here are convinced school A would beat school B IF they played.
So like a state's top QB from the North side of town going to the Central part of town ?
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I think its so crazy how everyone is on here to crucify a private school for trying to get an 8th grader to attend their school. Twice this year, my son who is a Junior at a private school, was sent a message by a CPS coach asking if he was happy at his school and he could transfer if he wanted to. Second time a player from a Naperville school, who he did not know, saying that they were building a great team and he could help them. The least of everyone's concerns should be an 8th grader on where they are testing or attending.
I was being facetious, lets not think something as simple as dividing the schools would end the debate. I dont know you either, but I'm sure we're just a couple of football fans. Cant we all get along? haha
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
As far as I know, the Frankfort Falcons, Mokena Burros and Frankfort Square Wildcats are all invited to football games at LWE. Are you saying that Zvonar addresses the group before, during or after the games? Have you heard this happening? Inquiring minds want to know....
Well when their website specifically mentions being a feeder for LWE and LWE hosts a camp for them run by Zvonar I think it's apparent.
Havent seen Zvonar at youth fields by me. Is the argument that because kids that live in the LWE boundary are seen at LWE games then thats the same as Private school X being at all the youth gamea in the area?
The issue comes with WHO you're inviting. When catholic school X invites lets say the Naperville Patriots to a game, the catholic school has to leave it open to ALL youth programs to cover their behinds. They may not tell teams from other towns that they're having a youth night, in order to make the players from the Naperville Patriots feel special BUT in reality it is open to all comers. So people see the Naperville Patriots on the sideline and people get fussy, but if a kid from the Hinsdale Falcons or the Glen Ellyn Golden Eagles finds out about it, and wants to come they are welcome, but its not necessarily broadcasted. The catholic school falls back on "it was an open invite, everyone was invited, but oddly enough, just kids from the Naperville Patriots showed up!"
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
I bet its the same principle as the catholic schools I just remarked on. the camp is for them run by them but on paper would be open to anyone.
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
Here is a link to the LWE Camps (all sports).
https://s3.amazonaws.com/pubtemp/live/content/LWE/documents/20170525124519.pdf
So godfthr53,please explain the following:
1. How this is the same as one coach calling one player "mentioning the youth's skill at a certain sport and how that kid would "fit in" at that high school"?
2. How this is different from all other high school sport camps in Illinois?
3. How this in anyway violates rule 3.070-3.073?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/pubtemp/live/content/LWE/documents/20170525124519.pdf
So godfthr53,please explain the following:
1. How this is the same as one coach calling one player "mentioning the youth's skill at a certain sport and how that kid would "fit in" at that high school"?
2. How this is different from all other high school sport camps in Illinois?
3. How this in anyway violates rule 3.070-3.073?
I see that you are new so just to enlighten you. The public vs private debate is a hot button issue that has been argued here for years and gets heated at times.
Why doesnt the youth website advertise any other school in the areas camp just the LWE camp run by staff. No provi camp? I just said this is no more illegal than anything stated above. As I've stated many times in the past public schools should be out there recruiting just as hard as private programs. I'm sure you would see it much different if the naperville patriots advertised for Nazareth and their camps on their website.
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anon_4vszfu35bv677
Guest
You'll have to ask the youth websites. Perhaps there is not enough room to list them all what with all the private schools that show up at their games.
Frankfort Falcons do have links to both LWE and Provi.
I still don't understand haw advertising youth football camps isn't the same as one coach calling a player to discuss sports with them.
And I'm still waiting for an answer on my three questions...
