Question on Classification Next Season for SR and Naz
- Thread starter DeanOfSelection
- Start date
Don’t forget about St.Pats, Fenwick, Lane, Payton, Whitney Young and yes even Maine South.
Recruiting in high school is not the same as in college football , it's not like Naz is handing out free rides to kids . Still have to pay tuition , maybe not full but still paying something. So Naz staff still have to convince parents to pay for a high school education. Not as easy as some people on this site think
That’s not what everyone is saying,the fact is if you can recruit kids from any area,enrollment should not be a factor of moving up or down in class.It should be helmet counts and winning percentage from previous yrs.
If it were helmet counts you would see football turn into a cut sport and teams would keep their numbers lower than they are now.
Pick of the litter, my ass!
You act as though Naz draws kids in the exact same way as DQ draws kids. DQ draws kids as the default tuition free school in its school district. Are there any private high schools in the DQ district? No. Are there ANY private high schools within an hour's drive of DQ? Doesn't look like it to me. What does that mean? It means that DQ and its neighboring schools pretty much get the entire litter within your own districts. If you enroll fewer than 99% of the high school aged kids in your district, that would be surprising.
Not only does Naz compete for students with every single public high school within its recruiting radius, including such public powerhouses as Glenbard West, Willowbrook, Hinsdale Central, etc., it also competes with roughly 35 other football playing private schools.
How many schools does DQ compete with to enroll students?
At about 3 miles away, St. Joseph High School in Westchester is probably the closest other private high school to Naz. Their ability to recruit the same "massive" population is exactly the same as that of Naz. Wanna know what St. Joe's overall football playoff record is? 0-1
DQ's playoff record is 68-31, including two state titles and four runner up trophies.
Cry me a river.
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What is St. Joe's Basketball playoff record? To pretend like St. Joe's don't take advantage of the 30 miles simply because they focus more on basketball is laughable. DQ will pretty much never have an opportunity to ask a group of kids like Love, McCarthy, Evans etc. to play for them. It's not comparable.
I suppose you will invent some reason to say that comparing Guerin Prep (less than 9 miles from Naz) and Walther Christian (less than 6 miles) to Naz is laughable as well.
Fenwick and Montini are the proper Naz comps. Guerin has one foot in the grave.
I'm talking about football playing private schools to counter the guy from Du Quoin who thinks that private schools can enroll whoever the hell they want from within their recruiting radii.
My problem with Helmet count is simply that it's an arbitrary number for a lot of schools.
Example LWE: Just guessing LWE might have 55-60 kids on the varsity roster during the regular season. Are you going to tell me that there are only 55-60 SO, JR & SR that would like to play varsity football at LWE? I believe the number is WAY higher than that and LWE could easily have a Varsity 'B' team and possibly a 'C' team also, and their 'B' team would probably be better than most school's varsity.
Just because some of these kids aren't good enough to be in LWE's top 5 players at Running Backs (for example) and can't afford to go to Providence, that they don't exist and aren't students at LWE.
Example LWE: Just guessing LWE might have 55-60 kids on the varsity roster during the regular season. Are you going to tell me that there are only 55-60 SO, JR & SR that would like to play varsity football at LWE? I believe the number is WAY higher than that and LWE could easily have a Varsity 'B' team and possibly a 'C' team also, and their 'B' team would probably be better than most school's varsity.
Just because some of these kids aren't good enough to be in LWE's top 5 players at Running Backs (for example) and can't afford to go to Providence, that they don't exist and aren't students at LWE.
Why would I do that? His argument is just as valid as your argument which is why Naz and DQ should never be in the same class. I simply don't understand why there is a need to try and minimize an advantage that you have based on the rules. I have a hard time understanding that philosophy.
As stated before I don't agree with moving Naz to 8A. I think that is an unfair punishment. If Naz win multiple titles in 6A or 7A, so be it. I think that is as fair as a combine system can get. Pushing Naz to 8A and Bishop Mac/ ICC playing 3A is equally wrong in my opinion.
They have the ability to enroll whoever they hell they want. The question is will the kid enroll. There are different factors involve however the opportunity is there.
The flip side or DQ side is there is absolutely NO scenario to get the kid you want unless the kid grew up in DQ period. Especially in smaller towns were relocation is not an option.
Ability and reality are two very different things. Clearly that ability does not translate to success for schools like Guerin and Chicago Christian. BTW, I have NO problem with Naz being success factored up to 8A, as long as the factoring is applicable to extraordinarily successful public schools like Rochester and ESL for example. IF ESL whips off a few titles in a row, why shouldn't they move up as well?
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I'm with you on the helmet count comparison. Max Preps football rosters leave a lot to be desired as to who actually hits the playing field. Montini's football Varsity roster had 64 kids on it with 15 of those kids who are sophomores and freshmen. 1 or two of those 15 will see the playing field usually in blow outs. Looking at other schools football rosters, it is also common to put sophs and freshmen on the varsity roster. The problem with helmet count doesn't take into consideration the advantage a larger school has in getting the bigger bodied linemen playing on the offense and defensive lines simply due to the number of actual boys attending the school.
FWIW, the helmet count of a few schools are:
Loyola has a 132 varsity helmet count! 8A
Warren -129 helmet count 8A
LWE - 111 helmet count 8A
Taft -112 helmet count 8A
Maine South -104 helmet count 8A
New Trier - 99 8A
St. Rita - 98 5A
Fenwick - 77 6A
MC - 76 7A
Brother Rice -74 8A
Naz - 72 7A
Montini - 64 helmet count 5A
JCA - 54 helmet count 5A
So much for helmet count in my opinion!
Yeah, I don't like helmet count. It's easily manipulated and doesn't indicate talent. I am not sure why some don't want to play up, seems to me to be an honor.
A high enrollment doesn't guarantee a good team so why not just play up?
A high enrollment doesn't guarantee a good team so why not just play up?
Naz hasn't won a bunch of titles in a row. If they had my point of view would be different. I prefer teams to play in what is perceived as the right class.
As far as your reply to schools who are not benefiting, its up to them. The opportunity is there. If they choose not to take advantage, that is on them. You can't say the ability is not there simply because they are not taking advantage of it.
Ability does not translate to reality. Claiming ability is a reason why schools should be moved up is crazy.
I never said anything about move a school up for ability. We are talking ability to recruit versus no option at all. All school aren't created equal. GP has the ability to be Montini if they choose to however DQ can NEVER be ESL. Montini was able to assemble a team that competed well in the CCL Blue. DQ could never assemble a team that can compete in 5A or 6A. I can think of 5 or more 5A private schools that can compete in 7A however I can't think of any public school. Rochester will be the only name you can think of that will support your claim.
ESL folks better hope Althoff keeps its coach or does not get one that can draw kids in ... DQ could never be ESL ... Althoff could, with the right situation.
I totally agree. If a public school is so dominant they win state titles every year or two they should move up. I have no problem with that happening.
As far as the Maxpreps rosters go a lot of kids were added to the St. Rita roster for the state final from the lower levels. The regular season roster was 37 less. Nice thing for the sophomore team to suit for the final along with a few freshmen. But they only were on the field for the warm-ups.
I'm sure as Althoff has been there before. Things are a little different now.
I believe he's saying that if Naz had a district JJ would be in it. Correct me if I'm wrong @godfthr53
But the issue is not only would you get JJ but you'd also get the other hundreds of kids in the neighborhood. Naz would be Lyons.
Only reason I disagree with that comparison is because of Racki. He’s done it at a couple places and seems to have a structure around the program. I believe he’d find a way to have a feeder program succeed and those other kids he would get would be better. Naz has talent, but they also develop talent and that’s the difference between being a “have” and a “have not”. Every kid who goes to LWE, GW, MS, Batavia or the many other successful public schools isn’t just more talented than the kids at less successful schools, they’re developed and progress better. That comes from coaching
How is it ok for St Pats to play in 7A when they have not won a playoff game in yrs or a winning record.But Naz can’t play in 8A!
CMON MAN!!
CMON MAN!!
That’s what happens when the metro all stars play a small school with boundaries. Thanks for adding to my point.
You were on that team, I guess? Was it your daddy who called Schott, said he was an attorney and wanted all this info about us boys?
What happened then was a genetic lottery. I knew every significant contributor to those teams via CYO/parochial basketball and local little league by the time I was 10. I went k-12 at QoP with 6/22 starting spots, Blessed Sacrament 4/22, St. Henry's 1/22, St. Phillips 6/22, St. Augustine's 1/22, St. P/P 2, St. Mary's 1.
Only Hickey was from a public BELLEVILLE school - but we played Hickey and Harvey at Central Jr. High since 7th grade. They were coached in hoops by a UNQUESTIONABLY an Althoff guy - Demo, who went to QoP then Althoff ... and owns the "Althoff" bar (AKA Demo's in Belleville.) (Demo was our coach 4-6th grade.)
OH - it was NOT LIKE we poached the area - East Side won titles then. Columbia went deep too. Lincoln got knocked out by ESL. East, West, Cahokia all made the playoffs ...
Our little league produced three MLB players in my age groups - ESL, ALTHOFF and WEST output on that year, along with a dozen minor leaguers.
Lots of Vietnam-returning Daddies sired some tough boys in 1972/3. That we region wide.
I want Althoff to be great again so I can get a little more of this Cru90 in my veins!
