I used to have a handle on this but have no clue anymore. Is Naz 8A since they have been to 2 consecutive 7A title games? Is Rita 7A again after winning playoff games?
Question on Classification Next Season for SR and Naz
- Thread starter DeanOfSelection
- Start date
I think, but I'm probably wrong:
1. that Naz will be 7A in 2020 because 18 & 19 were 2 different 2-year periods. If Naz makes the finals in 7A in 2020 they will then be moved up to 8A.
2. that Rita won enough playoff games in 2019 that they will get the multiplier back again, but nobody is sure whether that will happen in 2020 (or) not until 2021 "after the 2-year period".
Under no circumstances should Naz be 8A. There has to be a cap on the success factor.
Rita may qual for 4A...they only had 140 test so you normally can knock 20 off that number on how enroll off that so I’m guessing they’ll have 115/120 in August. But they should at least be in 6A this season and they could compete in 7A with Kaleb Brown.
Enrollment is based on previous year so they will not be in 4A.
Naz would be fine. No 8a team has as many kids with power five offers as Naz does.
Regardless no 5A team should have to compete in 8A. There should be a cap on the success factor.
They are not a real 5a team. Their enrollment has no impact on their football talent.
So MC should be 8A as well right? Never-mind, they will be in 2021 according to the other post.
I've been saying that for years. Don't let the Montini or Providence people hear you saying that. To be brutally honest, Naz would have fared better in 8a last season than 7a.
St Rita will be playing a 7a schedule and it should compete there next November.
And to those suggesting Mt Carmel to 8a - fine with me.
I have said for yrs naz and montini should of been playing in 7A or 8A and schools like st pats and Carmel should be at 5A or 6A
If the concept is that Nazareth should be 8a because their enrollment has no bearing on their football talent then ALL private school’s (even the Aurora Christian’s and ICCP’s) should be in 8a based on the same principle. Assuming they have 22 boys in the school they had equal access to attaining the enrollment of those players Nazareth has in their building. You can’t pick and choose the school’s year to year you want to push into 8a based on who they have on their current roster. Those other schools have the same right and ability to bring elite players into their school but the students chose another. So you are going to try and pick and choose year to year who got the better crop of players and “punish” them up while the schools that didn’t attract the best players stay down. As long as the right to enroll the student athlete is the same (which it is) that is the “level playing field” and there is no need for you to artificially take actions to try and do the leveling. Nothing was stopping JJ McCarthy from going to ICCP or Aurora Christian if he wanted to go there. Landon Morris could have moved from Indiana and went to St Francis if he wanted to... those schools have equal access to the same talent and that makes it “level.” So, either you keep classification based on enrollment (with a private multiplier if you must) or to be intellectually honest you would have to say if one private has to be 8a based on access to talent then ALL private schools must be 8a.
Let use some common sense here,winning percentage combined with helmet counts in programs.Montini,Loyola and Naz attract kids from all over city and many suburbs,I personally know kids in each of these programs that drive an hour each way to go to these schools.When other smaller Catholic schools are more local athletes.So quit crying and move up and accept the challenge.
As long as MC gets to the final again in 7A they will be 8A in '21. The divisions also realign and MC will be matched with all the CCL/ESCC 1st place finishers. Will be an absolutely brutal schedule as well as 8A.
Understanding that Nazareth and Montini have had a lot of success on the football field, I have troubling understanding the logic of moving schools of 763 students (Nazareth) and 585 students (Montini) up to 8A. Both schools have been multiplied and success factored up and to some that is not enough. About half of those students at both schools are females. So looking at it logically, that would be 381 boys at Nazareth and 292 boys at Montini. Also its a fact that less than a third of those males students play football for either school.
Some of the teams in 8A (Warren-3911 students) LWE (2891 students) Loyola (2052 students) to name a few as well as quite of few others have a 6, 7, or more times the amount of male students than Nazareth or Montini. All of these schools mentioned are very good at football as are Nazareth and Montini. They can't be moved up even though they have quality winning football programs. Seems to me the more boys coming out for football in a bigger school with a winning history would have the advantage year in an year out over a much smaller winning school simply by the numbers of boys participating in football alone. Just my opinion!
Some of the teams in 8A (Warren-3911 students) LWE (2891 students) Loyola (2052 students) to name a few as well as quite of few others have a 6, 7, or more times the amount of male students than Nazareth or Montini. All of these schools mentioned are very good at football as are Nazareth and Montini. They can't be moved up even though they have quality winning football programs. Seems to me the more boys coming out for football in a bigger school with a winning history would have the advantage year in an year out over a much smaller winning school simply by the numbers of boys participating in football alone. Just my opinion!
Gene you have a bone to pick with Loyola but Warren and LWE are public and they can’t recruit outside their school district. We can debate this until we’re blue in the face but what you can’t deny is the reason the multiplier was put in place. If you can talk to the IHSA and convince them to allow the public schools to recruit with in a 30 mile radius of their school then great we can lift the multiplier and let the chips fall as them may.
I do want to say I didn’t make the rule but understand why it was imposed.
Corey: I just used Warren and LWE as a 8A student population number to show that there is a big difference in student population from the various schools from 8A to 5A. My response was for the posters who thought Montini and Nazareth should be in 8A! Putting a school with 600-700 kids in a 8A classification where the cutoff is substantially higher seems a little far out to me regardless of how historically good a team has been in football.
what is then? Success? If it’s success alone I can’t agree with that and that shouldn’t be a determination. At that point it should be the schools decision and I would think they would want to move up rather than collect a trophy every year in a lower conference. I could be wrong and I guess that’s the reason?
Multiplier puts them in 5a. Success factor bumped them to 6a where they lost and then bumped them again to 7a where they won one and lost one and yet people are clamoring for the need to bump them up to 8a.
Im just curious how many helmets are on montini and nazerith varsity roster?All that matters is the size of the rosters! It does not matter the size of schools.waukegan Hs has 5,000 kids and probly 40 helmets on varsity.
Taft has 4,000 kids and all the top athletes in that area go to Loyola or notredame but yet Taft plays 8A!
And I don’t think they are wanting to go back to 5a and “collect a trophy” (who wants to play at 10 AM!). But staying in say 7a is not collecting trophies.
They fit in and excel in 7A right now. I would say that they will be a solid 6A-7A team for a long time. I don’t see them ever dropping back to 5A but can see a day where they fluctuate between 6A and 7A. This years team is very talented but I am against putting the class of 2022 in 8A because of the success that JJ’s group has had.
Wonder what the population would be If you calculate the 30 mile radius around Naz? 100k? 250k? 500k? My area 8a schools draws from right around 40k people. I see no problem moving them to 8A. Someone already said it best, their school enrollment has very little to do with the quality of team the put on the field on Friday nights.
School enrollment has little to do with any schools success on the football field. There are 8A schools that have small teams and have no success just like there are 4A schools that have bigger teams and lots of success. Naz has created a culture of success in its program, but what is the rationale behind bumping kids up 3 classes as a result of success they had little part in creating.
And as far as a culture of success goes, yeah I know all about that. A lot of schools have built that. I’m from DuQuoin. The Indians at one point had the longest consecutive playoff streak at 26 years in a row. But there were a few rough years where numbers and talent were down. I’m sure they would have loved to travel 30 miles in any direction to go knock on some doors. Maybe get that running back from Carbondale or the linebacker from Sesser. Boy, would that have been nice and added to that culture of success. A couple studs in 3A that move in can make a trophy contender real quick. But it didn’t happen that way and the streak ended.
Some schools play by a different set of rules though. Naz can have the pick of the litter from a massive population, massive! They probably get to draw from a population that’s about the same as all of Southern Illinois(south of 64) combined. Enrollment doesn’t matter, but the population you draw from should with open boundary schools. Put them in 9A, I doubt you will see many shedding tears around the state.
I’ll finish with this. Let’s open all schools to non-boundary status. Let all schools have a 30 mile radius and then let’s see what schools build a culture of success.
Some schools play by a different set of rules though. Naz can have the pick of the litter from a massive population, massive! They probably get to draw from a population that’s about the same as all of Southern Illinois(south of 64) combined. Enrollment doesn’t matter, but the population you draw from should with open boundary schools. Put them in 9A, I doubt you will see many shedding tears around the state.
I’ll finish with this. Let’s open all schools to non-boundary status. Let all schools have a 30 mile radius and then let’s see what schools build a culture of success.
I am all for it, as long as all schools are charging $10-12k tuition as well.
Whenever culture of success is mentioned people are always quick to say its due to the 30 mile radius (not you but in general on the site). We see public schools with a culture of success (MS, LWE, GW, Rochester, ESL, LZ, Batavia, Cary Grove, Prairie Ridge, etc) just like we see privates that don’t have the culture of success (won’t name any because then we’d really see a thread go off the rails), there has to be more to it than just open boundaries.
