Q of the Week: So what's the fix?

[EdgyTim]

Pretty simple question this week........so what's the fix in your opinion? How do we fix the current IHSA state playoff format and system? Do we separate public from private? Add stricter guard rails in place?

My feeling? Can we TRY seeding 1-32 in all classes to start with....then also look at the whole impact of multipliers/success factors? Personally...after seeing literally daily debate on this subject for well over 30 plus years.....can we finally just put public/private to a member wide vote and just accept the results and live with them/move on?

 

[MMA_Det]

the playing field is watered down

Go down to 6 or 7 classes

1-32 seeding as well

 

[SiuCubFan8]

the playing field is watered down

Go down to 6 or 7 classes

1-32 seeding as well

6/7 classes isn’t happening.
Start with 1-32, it’s an easy and logical change.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Pretty simple question this week........so what's the fix in your opinion? How do we fix the current IHSA state playoff format and system? Do we separate public from private? Add stricter guard rails in place?

My feeling? Can we TRY seeding 1-32 in all classes to start with....then also look at the whole impact of multipliers/success factors? Personally...after seeing literally daily debate on this subject for well over 30 plus years.....can we finally just put public/private to a member wide vote and just accept the results and live with them/move on?

Where have you been all weekend?

 

[niualum2002]

4 steps you could take that would solve a lot of issues.

1. Seed 1-32
2. Get rid of or modify the multiplier waiver (For example you're only waived if you have not made the playoffs last 4 years or something like that)
3. Bring back what I think was the old success factor of 2 title games in 4 years you move up 1 class, 3 in 4 you move up 2 classes and 4 in 4 you move up 3. Feel free to apply it to the public schools as well to create more competition in higher classes and also avoid having to do the next item on my list.
4. Get someone to turn a 6 into an 8 after East St. Louis submits their play-up proposal each year and then just play dumb towards the rest of the Southwestern Conference.

 

[colin2229]

I would start with eliminating the 2 yr cycle we currently have.

Success factor applies to public schools as well so ESL can play where they belong.

 

[mc140]

To start with:

1-32 all classes.

-Bring back old multiplier and success factor rules.
- Use enrollment from previous year instead of two year cycles that are 4 years behind by the end.

 

[Alexander32]

Your question may be simple but the solution is not. Although seeding all classes 1-32 may be a very slight improvement, it is easily the least important of the several flaws found in the current system. Similarly, simply putting the playoff separation of public schools and private schools to a vote would likely satisfy less than half of the individuals that have an opinion on this matter. It will not be accepted and people will not just move on.

A sophisticated solution is to meld the best of the competing alternatives into a single solution. Two such solutions have already been proposed on this message board. The first is titled "A Proposal for High School Football Playoffs" and can currently be found on page 2 of this message board. It is a comprehensive proposal addressing every issue in the current system that posters to this board have objected to. Perhaps its most important feature is an overhaul of the success factor, including the introduction of a success factor for public high schools. No proposal can hope to totally eliminate all complaints, but based on message board feedback the adoption of this proposal should greatly reduce the amount of dissatisfaction that is expressed towards the current system.

The second proposal is found in the thread titled "SF 10 Syc 0 F". That thread can currently be found on page 4 of this message board. The proposal is found on the first page of that thread and is dated November 16, 2024. The most important aspect of that proposal is that it would partially separate the CCL/ESCC from the playoffs. There are many details provided, but in a nutshell the CCL/ESCC would hold its own playoffs for the first three rounds with the winners then being introduced into the IHSA brackets at the semifinal round. Yes, it is innovative, and yes, it was not universally accepted by members of this board. However, it is a self-correcting plan that automatically adjusts to changing circumstances. It would likely be very well received by IHSA members.

Despite your modesty, you are well connected with a number of high school football coaches in the state of Illinois. If you were to submit either or both proposals to one or more coaches for their review and possible submission to the IHSA for a vote, some traction might finally be achieved on getting the system fixed. (I understand in most cases the coach will not have the final say for a particular school and will need to forward the proposal(s) to the athletic director and perhaps the principal.)

If one of the proposals is approved by the IHSA membership and some (perhaps many) private schools choose to leave the IHSA as a result, that would be their voluntary choice. That is a better course of action than the IHSA membership voting to expel private high schools from the IHSA.

The two proposals referred to in this message will provide a reasonable opportunity for general acceptance by IHSA members and the opportunity to move forward on a positive basis; not to mention producing a more competitive playoff experience.

 

[LHSTigers94]

I would start with eliminating the 2 yr cycle we currently have.

Success factor applies to public schools as well so ESL can play where they belong.

In 5a?

 

[Chris OC]

Pretty simple question this week........so what's the fix in your opinion? How do we fix the current IHSA state playoff format and system? Do we separate public from private? Add stricter guard rails in place?

My feeling? Can we TRY seeding 1-32 in all classes to start with....then also look at the whole impact of multipliers/success factors? Personally...after seeing literally daily debate on this subject for well over 30 plus years.....can we finally just put public/private to a member wide vote and just accept the results and live with them/move on?

Needs to be separated. It’s clear as day. One other comment, just terrible officiating in the 8A game. Game was closer than score.

 

[GoBlers]

Needs to be separated. It’s clear as day. One other comment, just terrible officiating in the 8A game. Game was closer than score.

Have fun in the minor leagues!

 

[Chris OC]

Have fun in the minor leagues!

Funny when those who peaked in High School talk smack

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Funny when those who peaked in High School talk smack

big zinger!!!

 

[doctor_d]

First thing is get rid of two year enrollment window.

Next thing is 1-32 seeding.

Waiver should be tweaked to be harder to obtain and it shouldn’t have to do with not making the playoffs. A team like ICCP shouldn’t play 2A for the next two years just because they didn’t make the playoffs one out of the last two years with that schedule.

Get rid of success factor or give it to everyone, although if everyone gets it, I’d consider modifying the terms.

 

[618FootballGuy]

1. Get rid of the waiver and apply the 1.65x enrollment factor to all private/parochial/charter schools every enrollment cycle.

2. 1-32 seeding

3. Everyone “Be Happy”

 

[618FootballGuy]

Another idea
The Multiplier Tier System or MTS for short

Base multiplier:
In this system all non-boundaried schools would start off with a smaller base multiplier of 1.5. As a school sees success, the multiplier increases. I personally like the idea of raising the multiplier by 0.05 per playoff win but this number can be discussed. A team that wins a state title would have their multiplier increase by a minimum of 0.25 for the next cycle. A team that wins two titles back to back would have their title increased by 0.50 for the next cycle, this would put their multiplier at 2.0 after back to back title wins.

Multiplier increase/decrease:
If a team with a 2.0 multiplier fails to win a quarterfinal game in a 2 year cycle, said team can petition to have their multiplier LOWERED but not removed. I personally like the idea of lowering the multiplier by up to 0.25 per two year cycle but that number is also up for discussion.

Multiplier waivers:
A team that has been at the base multiplier of 1.5 for 4 years can petition to waive their multiplier completely.

Disclaimer: I am not and do not claim to be an expert on this matter but I’ve followed IHSA football for several years. All numbers in regard to the base multiplier and how much a multiplier should increase/decrease are up for discussion as well as the requirements to petition for a waiver. My goal is to find a system that is fair to ALL schools across ALL classes.

Discuss it. Critique it. Laugh at it. Whatever it takes to find a solution.

Have a blessed day.

 

[wickerpark wildcat]

Posted this idea in another thread. Simple & I think results in much improved competition…

All teams commit to no cut policy & classification is based on # of kids in program.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Posted this idea in another thread. Simple & I think results in much improved competition…

All teams commit to no cut policy & classification is based on # of kids in program.

What am I missing? What schools cut players?

 

[wickerpark wildcat]

What am I missing? What schools cut players?

I don’t know that any do, but if classification was based on numbers, some coaches might in order to move down in class. That hurts kids, which i want to avoid…. So schools agree to no-cut to prevent this potential bad behavior

 

[Blacknight36]

Something has to change. That’s for sure.

I’m leaning towards separation. 5 in Public, 3 in Private might work.

Weight limit, or body mass limit on officials.

1-32 seeding.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

I would start with eliminating the 2 yr cycle we currently have.

Success factor applies to public schools as well so ESL can play where they belong.

If they played strictly based on enrollment they could fall as low as 4A. If ESL had their way they would play 8A. Not sure many of the big schools would want that

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

6 classes all seeded 1-32

3 private school classes. Zero boundary so they can go to Guam and get kids if they want.

It’s what is done here in Virginia and it works. Private schools can still play public schools in the regular season.

Here’s the catch - this is for all sports not just football.

This would require a formal proposal by principals and ADs - the IHSA cannot unilaterally institute it. And a good proposal without the whining - fact based detail based .

 

[EdgyTim]

Where have you been all weekend?

IHSA TV for 8 games in two days....

 

[crusader_of_90]

IHSA TV for 8 games in two days....

You had a strong tie game this weekend - looked sharp!

 

[618FootballGuy]

Edgy any thoughts on changes that need to be made obviously 1-32. But anything else?

 

[Dave Brody]

Edgy any thoughts on changes that need to be made obviously 1-32. But anything else?

Did you read the first post?

 

[HSFootballfan_007]

The gap is growing, and not slowing any time soon. Split up the public & private. Public goes down to 5 or 6 classes and privates goes to 2.

It’s about competitive fields that put all schools in the correct place to compete.

 

[colin2229]

We need to define what are we looking to solve?

The whole purpose of the current format is to eliminate one team from winning numerous state championships in the same class.

The current format solves this.

Althoff, Chicago Christian, Montini, DePaul, Naz and Mt Carmel will all be in higher classes next year. Is this not enough?

If not, what do we need to fix? What else is the problem?

 

[4Anorth]

IHSA TV for 8 games in two days....

Wait.....that was you on TV?😂

 

[4Anorth]

Wait.....that was you on TV?😂

Did you get OT pay or were you salary?😉

 

[McCaravan]

Splitting the Public and Private schools is basically the Public schools waiving the white flag saying "We can't win" when they have won so many times. I don't think schools like LWE, Maine South, and for sure ESL want to win a State Title knowing they might not have beaten the best. I would put Batavia in that group but many of their supporters are very vocal that they think it's unfair that Private schools recruit, but they pick and choose when they want to complain about it. They blew out Br. Rice, a CCL Blue team last season and all was fine. They struggle with MC and that's when it becomes not fair.

Does LWE, Swagger or ESL or any other school want to win a State Title when they know they possibly didn't face the best in the State? Could we have beaten LA or MC this year? Yeah we won the Public School State but were we the best? If that's what you want then your playing for a Ring that you'll wear outside the house twice, a trophy that will sit in your schools trophy case that you will see at the reunion, and a State Hat and Hoody that you will wear until your go to College and realize that you look like an idiot walking around campus wearing a High School shirt (don't worry you can wear these again when your in your 40's with little push back).

The Private side State Championship will be a snooze fest. Do they break that up by size? "We are the Private League Level 2 State Champions!!! We are the best mid level private school College Team in IL!!!" You would have to because if you don't teams like Laurence, Montini, Providence and DePaul will never be able to hang with LA, MC, SR, BR, Marist, JCA and Naz on a yearly basis, St. Francis will have a hard time too. All that will be is a redue and rematch of the Conference play.

So no, absolutely not, I don't want to see a split. I'm happy MC is moving to 8A, I'd love to see them play LWE and Maine South who will have the two top QBs in the State next year, while MC and LA reload at that position. It will be an awesome game. As Edgy suggested, start with seeding, FACTOR IN STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE, make sure that the #1 seed in the second largest conference isn't a school from the third tier of competitiveness in the CPS while the 2 two defending State Champion is seeded 19th. Baby steps....splitting the Private/Publics would be a monster step.