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Playoff Seeding

colin2229

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Basketball and baseball are both seeded based on a panel of coaches and not merely based on record.

Why doesn't football do this and is it even able to be proposed and voted on?

Would be nice to be able to get rid of 8-1 / 9-0 teams with high seeds and home games getting blown out in the first round.

Shouldn't seeding be based on merit rather than simple record? 3.8 gpa from a state school isn't the same as 3.8 gpa in the ivy league. And 9-0 in the public league ain't the same as 9-0 in the CCL.
 
Basketball and baseball are both seeded based on a panel of coaches and not merely based on record.

Why doesn't football do this and is it even able to be proposed and voted on?

Would be nice to be able to get rid of 8-1 / 9-0 teams with high seeds and home games getting blown out in the first round.

Shouldn't seeding be based on merit rather than simple record? 3.8 gpa from a state school isn't the same as 3.8 gpa in the ivy league. And 9-0 in the public league ain't the same as 9-0 in the CCL.

Those sports know their sectional two months a head of time and typically play most teams in the sectional.
 
Use a computer power ranking to seed the qualifying teams.
Ohio does this. Each class (Division 1 being largest, D7 smallest) has 4 regions. Each region has 8 qualifying teams. Every team in a region has a computer ranking based on strength of schedule, opponents record, and opponents opponents record. It’s hard to hide from a bad schedule. Many times very good teams don’t make the playoffs because of whom they play.

Regional seeding determines home field the first two weeks. Regional championships are on a neutral field, typically a larger stadium capable of hosting such a game. Semi’s are the same.

The way the IHSA gives home/away status is ridiculously stupid. Why should a 22 seed host a 5 seed? Did they earn it? Not at all. Atrociously unfair to what a team did in the regular season. That should be your reward....home field advantage the first couple of weeks.
 
Here is an explanation of how the OHSAA rankings work (I love the calculus....seems super specific)(I was a bit off on the calc above):

https://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/rankcalc.htm


The following is an example of how the points are awarded and how to read the OHSAA Computer Rankings:

KEY
Wins over a Division I school - 6.5 points
Wins over a Division II school - 6.0 points
Wins over a Division III school - 5.5 points
Wins over a Division IV school - 5.0 points
Wins over a Division V school - 4.5 points
Wins over a Division VI school - 4.0 points
Wins over a Division VII school - 3.5 points

For more information, please view the OHSAA football tournament regulations.

COMPUTER RANKINGS EXAMPLE


  • Team A, a Division III school, is 3-0.
  • Each opponent Team A has defeated is Division III.
  • Opponents 1 and 2, which Team A has defeated, are each 2-1, with their victories coming over Division III schools.
  • Opponent 3, which Team A has defeated, is 1-1, with its victory coming over a Division III school. Opponent 3 has had one open date.
First level points - 16.5 points {3 wins times 5.5 points (for defeating Division III opponents)} divided by 3 (the number of games Team A has played thus far) = 5.5000 first level points.

Second level points - 11.0 from Opponent 1 {2 wins times 5.5 (for defeating Division III opponents)}, 11.0 from Opponent 2 {2 wins times 5.5 (for defeating Division III opponents)} and 5.5 from Opponent 3 {1 win times 5.5 (for defeating a Division III opponent)} for 27.5 points. These 27.5 points are then divided by 99 (since Opponent 3 thus far has had an open date) and multiplied by 10 = 2.7778 second level points.

Total Points: 5.5000 (first level points) plus 2.7778 (second level points) = 8.2778

NOTE: Say during week four, Opponent 1 has an open date. Then the second level points divisor for Team A after week four becomes 98, since Opponent 3 has had one open date and now Opponent 1 has had one open date.


HOW TO READ YOUR OHSAA COMPUTER RANKINGS

LEVEL-1 LEVEL-2 AVERAGE RANK CITY HIGH SCHOOL NAME
16.5000 27.5000 8.2778 1 A-TOWN TEAM A
  • To find out what the first level average is, divide the 15 points by the number of games Team A has played to date (15 divided by 3 = 5.0000)
  • Next, subtract the 5.5000 from the total average of 8.2778. This number (2.7778) shows what the second level average is.
  • So, 5.5000 first level points plus 2.7778 second level points = 8.2778 total points.
  • To find out what divisor was used to determine second level points, divide the total level-2 points (27.5000) by the second level average (2.7778). So, 27.5000 divided by 2.7778 = 9.8999208. This means the divisor used was 99, which shows that one of Team A's opponents has had an open date.
 
Ohio does this. Each class (Division 1 being largest, D7 smallest) has 4 regions. Each region has 8 qualifying teams. Every team in a region has a computer ranking based on strength of schedule, opponents record, and opponents opponents record. It’s hard to hide from a bad schedule. Many times very good teams don’t make the playoffs because of whom they play.

Regional seeding determines home field the first two weeks. Regional championships are on a neutral field, typically a larger stadium capable of hosting such a game. Semi’s are the same.

The way the IHSA gives home/away status is ridiculously stupid. Why should a 22 seed host a 5 seed? Did they earn it? Not at all. Atrociously unfair to what a team did in the regular season. That should be your reward....home field advantage the first couple of weeks.

1-4 four seeds should have home field throughout the playoffs.
 
1-4 four seeds should have home field throughout the playoffs.
That would make more sense if the computer rankings system were involved. I believe that the current system acknowledges that the seeding system is flawed.
 
Football coaches I've spoken to don't really pay attention to anyone not on their schedule. Too few games a sample size. The current method although not perfect is okay.

Yeah I have seen basketball and volleyball coaches completely jack up seeding and they play most of the teams. Then there are years you get CPS teams who do not even bother to vote, including the top CPS teams.

There have been multiple times we have beaten schools twice in a season, had a better record, and still had schools rank those teams above us in seeding for basketball and volleyball.
 
Here is an explanation of how the OHSAA rankings work (I love the calculus....seems super specific)(I was a bit off on the calc above):

https://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/rankcalc.htm


The following is an example of how the points are awarded and how to read the OHSAA Computer Rankings:

KEY
Wins over a Division I school - 6.5 points
Wins over a Division II school - 6.0 points
Wins over a Division III school - 5.5 points
Wins over a Division IV school - 5.0 points
Wins over a Division V school - 4.5 points
Wins over a Division VI school - 4.0 points
Wins over a Division VII school - 3.5 points

For more information, please view the OHSAA football tournament regulations.

COMPUTER RANKINGS EXAMPLE


  • Team A, a Division III school, is 3-0.
  • Each opponent Team A has defeated is Division III.
  • Opponents 1 and 2, which Team A has defeated, are each 2-1, with their victories coming over Division III schools.
  • Opponent 3, which Team A has defeated, is 1-1, with its victory coming over a Division III school. Opponent 3 has had one open date.
First level points - 16.5 points {3 wins times 5.5 points (for defeating Division III opponents)} divided by 3 (the number of games Team A has played thus far) = 5.5000 first level points.

Second level points - 11.0 from Opponent 1 {2 wins times 5.5 (for defeating Division III opponents)}, 11.0 from Opponent 2 {2 wins times 5.5 (for defeating Division III opponents)} and 5.5 from Opponent 3 {1 win times 5.5 (for defeating a Division III opponent)} for 27.5 points. These 27.5 points are then divided by 99 (since Opponent 3 thus far has had an open date) and multiplied by 10 = 2.7778 second level points.

Total Points: 5.5000 (first level points) plus 2.7778 (second level points) = 8.2778

NOTE: Say during week four, Opponent 1 has an open date. Then the second level points divisor for Team A after week four becomes 98, since Opponent 3 has had one open date and now Opponent 1 has had one open date.


HOW TO READ YOUR OHSAA COMPUTER RANKINGS

LEVEL-1 LEVEL-2 AVERAGE RANK CITY HIGH SCHOOL NAME
16.5000 27.5000 8.2778 1 A-TOWN TEAM A
  • To find out what the first level average is, divide the 15 points by the number of games Team A has played to date (15 divided by 3 = 5.0000)
  • Next, subtract the 5.5000 from the total average of 8.2778. This number (2.7778) shows what the second level average is.
  • So, 5.5000 first level points plus 2.7778 second level points = 8.2778 total points.
  • To find out what divisor was used to determine second level points, divide the total level-2 points (27.5000) by the second level average (2.7778). So, 27.5000 divided by 2.7778 = 9.8999208. This means the divisor used was 99, which shows that one of Team A's opponents has had an open date.

So according to your system 3A Wilmington should get huge credit just for playing 7A Oak Lawn Community...even though they running clocked them. The current system screws the Cats because Oak Lawn Community only won one game over a winless team...

Instead, we get discussion about how Wilmo's non-con schedule sucked...

This might help in the bigger classes, but in the lower classes bigger teams in conferences which ride class lines just get screwed...A Mt. Zion, for example, the second smallest school in 5A, gets screwed because it is in a 4A conference, while Rochester, the smallest school in 5A, is unaffected in 5A because its the smallest school in its conference. I don't think this system can work unless classes are determined in advance...otherwise you will find mid-level 3A and 4A schools playing bad big CPS schools to get big points...
 
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So according to your system 3A Wilmington should get huge credit just for playing 7A Oak Lawn Community...even though they running clocked them. The current system screws the Cats because Oak Lawn Community only won one game over a winless team...

Instead, we get discussion about how Wilmo's non-con schedule sucked...

This might help in the bigger classes, but in the lower classes bigger teams in conferences which ride class lines just get screwed...A Mt. Zion, for example, the second smallest school in 5A, gets screwed because it is in a 4A conference, while Rochester, the smallest school in 5A, is unaffected in 5A because its the smallest school in its conference. I don't think this system can work unless classes are determined in advance...otherwise you will find mid-level 3A and 4A schools playing bad big CPS schools to get big points...
The classes are decided by OHSHAA and there is no moving from division to division whatsoever. There’s a reason that most, if not all, of the parochial powers in Ohio are in D1 (Iggy, Ed’s, Moeller, X, Elder, etc) and D2 (Hoban, SVSM, Mentor Lake Catholic, Toledo CC, Cincy LaSalle, Col. DeSales. Cardinal Mooney, etc). The classes there are performance and size related. Most, if not all, conferences are same sized schools. Our conference was probably 1/2 D2 and 1/2 D3. Typically you only had 3 OOC opponents and you rarely strayed beyond a class above or below you.
 
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