Mount Carmel Offensive Football 2018 ?

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Let’s keep the Frank Lenti and Ned Hughes debate on the other thread!

Jordan Lynch has not had much to say except he said that they might run the same offense except out of the shotgun. In the last 12 years since Holecek came to LA, MC is 25 and 23 in the CCL Blue. BUT once they get out of the league and in the playoffs their offense wreaks havoc on opponents because it’s extremely hard to prepare for in one week.

Please correct if I’m wrong but as I see it with the QB under center the defensive nose tackle/tackles, the middle linebacker/inside linebackers and safeties have to stay home to cover the belly run from the up back. With ball being kept below the numbers it’s hard to see the exchange. When the QB pulls the ball out and slides down the line the defensive ends and outside linebackers have to stay home and to keep the QB from cutting up field. If QB holds the ball and forces the defense to play his run he will pitch the ball. If the QB pitches the ball it puts a lot of pressure on the CB to tackle the RB one on one or force him into the inside.

But with the QB getting the ball in the shotgun the defense would have a better opportunity to pursue the ball. The pitch would be 6 yards or so deeper.

Does anyone run MC’s offense from the shotgun?

Does MC give up an advantage they have come playoff time?

Thoughts?

 

[Bowie50]

Let’s keep the Frank Lenti and Ned Hughes debate on the other thread!

Jordan Lynch has not had much to say except he said that they might run the same offense except out of the shotgun. In the last 12 years since Holecek came to LA, MC is 25 and 23 in the CCL Blue. BUT once they get out of the league and in the playoffs their offense wreaks havoc on opponents because it’s extremely hard to prepare for in one week.

Please correct if I’m wrong but as I see it with the QB under center the defensive nose tackle/tackles, the middle linebacker/inside linebackers and safeties have to stay home to cover the belly run from the up back. With ball being kept below the numbers it’s hard to see the exchange. When the QB pulls the ball out and slides down the line the defensive ends and outside linebackers have to stay home and to keep the QB from cutting up field. If QB holds the ball and forces the defense to play his run he will pitch the ball. If the QB pitches the ball it puts a lot of pressure on the CB to tackle the RB one on one or force him into the inside.

But with the QB getting the ball in the shotgun the defense would have a better opportunity to pursue the ball. The pitch would be 6 yards or so deeper.

Does anyone run MC’s offense from the shotgun?

Does MC give up an advantage they have come playoff time?

Thoughts?

You gotta feather that pitch baby!

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

You gotta feather that pitch baby!

“Sunshine” Ronnie Bass bought long hair and good nutrition to T.C. Williams High School but the tai chi was over the top in that time frame.

 

[caravan8]

Not sure it will be the exact same option, think more RPO’s like Lynch may have run at NIU. Maybe the thinking is to spread the defense out a little and prevent teams from putting 8 guys in the box.

I think it does take away an advantage they’ve enjoyed in the playoffs. Veer is difficult to prepare for in a week. I think it depends on their run/pass ratio. We’ve seen good passing teams lose in the playoffs because the weather didn’t cooperate with the passing scheme. Im also interested to see if they run strictly from the shotgun or if it’s a mix of shotgun and under center.

 

[refref01]

RPO is good if the decision maker is capable of handling and changing the decision maker every year will make it more difficult.

Also a good defensive coordinator in high school could create issues.

The veer and coaching is as big a part of the story of their success as the talent on the field. Look at the playoffs and regular season of LZ, Rita and MC.

 

[Hillini74]

Let’s keep the Frank Lenti and Ned Hughes debate on the other thread!

Jordan Lynch has not had much to say except he said that they might run the same offense except out of the shotgun. In the last 12 years since Holecek came to LA, MC is 25 and 23 in the CCL Blue. BUT once they get out of the league and in the playoffs their offense wreaks havoc on opponents because it’s extremely hard to prepare for in one week.

Please correct if I’m wrong but as I see it with the QB under center the defensive nose tackle/tackles, the middle linebacker/inside linebackers and safeties have to stay home to cover the belly run from the up back. With ball being kept below the numbers it’s hard to see the exchange. When the QB pulls the ball out and slides down the line the defensive ends and outside linebackers have to stay home and to keep the QB from cutting up field. If QB holds the ball and forces the defense to play his run he will pitch the ball. If the QB pitches the ball it puts a lot of pressure on the CB to tackle the RB one on one or force him into the inside.

But with the QB getting the ball in the shotgun the defense would have a better opportunity to pursue the ball. The pitch would be 6 yards or so deeper.

Does anyone run MC’s offense from the shotgun?

Does MC give up an advantage they have come playoff time?

Thoughts?

Mike DiMattio ran triple from gun at Hinsdale Central
I believe Normal West put up some big offensive numbers running it from Gun a few years back.
The gun depth gives the QB more vision and reads don't have to be as instantaneous as when under center.
Though the most dangerous play in football is a well run, quick hitting dive play.

 

[tomloner]

Not sure it will be the exact same option, think more RPO’s like Lynch may have run at NIU. Maybe the thinking is to spread the defense out a little and prevent teams from putting 8 guys in the box.

I think it does take away an advantage they’ve enjoyed in the playoffs. Veer is difficult to prepare for in a week. I think it depends on their run/pass ratio. We’ve seen good passing teams lose in the playoffs because the weather didn’t cooperate with the passing scheme. Im also interested to see if they run strictly from the shotgun or if it’s a mix of shotgun and under center.

SR and LA could defense the veer over the last 12 years because of their coaching and they had the players. A senior starter has played against that offense for four years. Schools in the CCL Blue practice a lot more than 5 days against that offense when you count the spring and August practices.

If MC decides to pass they ball a lot more the QB has to have a different skill set. Reading defensive formations and checking off to different receivers is a skill that has to be learned. Jordan will be able to teach that but I would not judge Lynch on just the 2018 season alone. Everyone in the school has to learn a new offense.

 

[caravan8]

Learning a new offense is a big adjustment and it would have to be done on all 3 levels. There’s no way to judge him on the success of the program in just 2018. I don’t know if they will move to the RPO’s or not, it was just a thought.

I agree that the CCL Blue teams had an inherent advantage in defending MC because they saw it year in and year out and the coaching in the conference is really good.

My issue the past few years was the defenses inability to stop the spread offense. Does anyone think having the offense move to a shotgun and maybe some different looks in practice helps the MC defense in the future?

 

[McCaravan]

Well my son was at an offensive meeting this week....said it's "very confusing" but "looks like it will be awesome". Sorry thats about as much as I can get from a 16 yr old! But they have a good QB returning in Premovic, a 1,000 yard rusher in Davis, a D-1 linemen in Mendiola, and a returning TE....little thin on WR's....great defense returning. 18 will be an interesting year. Maine South and Loyola week 2 and 3 will be baptism by fire for sure.

 

[ramblinman]

I agree that the CCL Blue teams had an inherent advantage in defending MC because they saw it year in and year out and the coaching in the conference is really good.

My issue the past few years was the defenses inability to stop the spread offense. Does anyone think having the offense move to a shotgun and maybe some different looks in practice helps the MC defense in the future?

IDK. What I do know is that the defense can be helped by an offense that can move the ball better, score more, and improve time of possession. Seems simplistic, I know, but there is truth in simplicity.

Can you think of a better way to stop the spread than by keeping your opponent's offense on the bench?

 

[McCaravan]

Learning a new offense is a big adjustment and it would have to be done on all 3 levels. There’s no way to judge him on the success of the program in just 2018. I don’t know if they will move to the RPO’s or not, it was just a thought.

I agree that the CCL Blue teams had an inherent advantage in defending MC because they saw it year in and year out and the coaching in the conference is really good.

My issue the past few years was the defenses inability to stop the spread offense. Does anyone think having the offense move to a shotgun and maybe some different looks in practice helps the MC defense in the future?

I think it will. Your completely correct, we have had a helluva time stopping the spread. We had to put Thomas and Nakos in the secondary to help last year. Br. Rice beat us 3 of the last 4 years because we couldn't stop Smallings. I think Lynch will bring in a couple coaches who have a lot of experience stopping the spread. We have 3 of our 4 DBs returning in 2018

 

[sac'em]

"Well my son was at an offensive meeting this week....said it's "very confusing" but "looks like it will be awesome". Sorry thats about as much as I can get from a 16 yr old!"
Offensive meeting during the off season? Hmmmm. Hope none of the coaches were there. That's against IHSA Rules. HHS, where are you? We need your help!!!

 

[ClownBaby]

Let’s keep the Frank Lenti and Ned Hughes debate on the other thread!

Jordan Lynch has not had much to say except he said that they might run the same offense except out of the shotgun. In the last 12 years since Holecek came to LA, MC is 25 and 23 in the CCL Blue. BUT once they get out of the league and in the playoffs their offense wreaks havoc on opponents because it’s extremely hard to prepare for in one week.

Please correct if I’m wrong but as I see it with the QB under center the defensive nose tackle/tackles, the middle linebacker/inside linebackers and safeties have to stay home to cover the belly run from the up back. With ball being kept below the numbers it’s hard to see the exchange. When the QB pulls the ball out and slides down the line the defensive ends and outside linebackers have to stay home and to keep the QB from cutting up field. If QB holds the ball and forces the defense to play his run he will pitch the ball. If the QB pitches the ball it puts a lot of pressure on the CB to tackle the RB one on one or force him into the inside.

But with the QB getting the ball in the shotgun the defense would have a better opportunity to pursue the ball. The pitch would be 6 yards or so deeper.

Does anyone run MC’s offense from the shotgun?

Does MC give up an advantage they have come playoff time?

Thoughts?

MC advantage in the playoffs is they are more talented then 85% of the teams they play, I think they will be fine.

 

[mcguy456]

MC advantage in the playoffs is they are more talented then 85% of the teams they play, I think they will be fine.

Thats just not true, was MC more talented than Normal and ESL this year? not even close. But they pulled those games out. I can go on and on from past years and examples.

 

[Irish LB]

Thats just not true, was MC more talented than Normal and ESL this year? not even close. But they pulled those games out. I can go on and on from past years and examples.

They weren’t more talented than Normal? Lmao get out of here.

 

[mcguy456]

I think it will. Your completely correct, we have had a helluva time stopping the spread. We had to put Thomas and Nakos in the secondary to help last year. Br. Rice beat us 3 of the last 4 years because we couldn't stop Smallings. I think Lynch will bring in a couple coaches who have a lot of experience stopping the spread. We have 3 of our 4 DBs returning in 2018

Mccaravan I don't mean to continue calling you out but almost the entire defensive staff is staying (like it should) Dave Lenti is best DC in the state getting a lot more out of a not talented and beat up defense. Lost their best D linemen in week 3 (where they lacked any depth) didn't get best returning starter until week 8. and started kids the last 2 years who wouldn't have made the 2 deep on vast majority of teams in the past. "Experience stopping the spread" r u kidding almost every team MC plays is against the spread. How many points did normal, ESL, and Lake Zurich put up? especially what LZ did to Rita. If you follow the program and comment on it then please don't just spew nonsense

 

[mcguy456]

They weren’t more talented than Normal? Lmao get out of here.

They were. not a joke one bit this was not a talented MC team by any means. I know i'm not the only one who could see that Normal was very legit.

 

[LHSTigers94]

Mccaravan I don't mean to continue calling you out but almost the entire defensive staff is staying (like it should) Dave Lenti is best DC in the state getting a lot more out of a not talented and beat up defense. Lost their best D linemen in week 3 (where they lacked any depth) didn't get best returning starter until week 8. and started kids the last 2 years who wouldn't have made the 2 deep on vast majority of teams in the past. "Experience stopping the spread" r u kidding almost every team MC plays is against the spread. How many points did normal, ESL, and Lake Zurich put up? especially what LZ did to Rita. If you follow the program and comment on it then please don't just spew nonsense

Ball control has a lot to do with the opposing team score.

 

[Irish LB]

They were. not a joke one bit this was not a talented MC team by any means. I know i'm not the only one who could see that Normal was very legit.

MC infinitely more talented than Normal, stop it with this nonsense.

 

[mcguy456]

MC infinitely more talented than Normal, stop it with this nonsense.

I hope Dean or some other MC fan who actually watched the game can back me up on this but i'll agree to disagree

 

[caravan8]

Mccaravan I don't mean to continue calling you out but almost the entire defensive staff is staying (like it should) Dave Lenti is best DC in the state getting a lot more out of a not talented and beat up defense. Lost their best D linemen in week 3 (where they lacked any depth) didn't get best returning starter until week 8. and started kids the last 2 years who wouldn't have made the 2 deep on vast majority of teams in the past. "Experience stopping the spread" r u kidding almost every team MC plays is against the spread. How many points did normal, ESL, and Lake Zurich put up? especially what LZ did to Rita. If you follow the program and comment on it then please don't just spew nonsense

Over the past 2 seasons how many points did SR put up? PC? Loyola? BR? Montini in 2017? Yes they played well in the playoffs this season and I think coach Dave is phenomenal, but to say that they have struggled stopping the spread on defense in the past 2-3 seasons isn’t nonsense.

 

[mcguy456]

Over the past 2 seasons how many points did SR put up? PC? Loyola? BR? Montini in 2017? Yes they played well in the playoffs this season and I think coach Dave is phenomenal, but to say that they have struggled stopping the spread on defense in the past 2-3 seasons isn’t nonsense.

1. The "nonsense" i was referring to is Lynch bringing in new coaches which just isn't true because the staff is staying. 2. The point I am making is the last 2 years is a bad example to pin on the coaching staff. They got the most out of a not talented defense and will continue getting the most out of this years defense as well. There were kids starting who wouldn't be backups on many teams in the past. In the last two years the best college where a defensive player committed to was Cornell and I don't think there has been another D1 player from defense besides him (Cooper rotated and is going to Cincy)

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

Over the past 2 seasons how many points did SR put up? PC? Loyola? BR? Montini in 2017? Yes they played well in the playoffs this season and I think coach Dave is phenomenal, but to say that they have struggled stopping the spread on defense in the past 2-3 seasons isn’t nonsense.

MC was outscored 242 to 216 over the last two years in conference. But over the last 12 years they outscored their league opponents 1160 to 955 outscoring BR and PC being outscored by LA and SR.

 

[mcguy456]

I think if Lynch changes a lot for next year it will be a mistake. He returns a very good team but isn't built to really run much else besides the veer. I am interested to see what happens but you have to remember how hard it is to change O-line footwork, blocking schemes, RB footwork, QB footwork and a lot more little things so quickly in little time and see results immediately. Week 2 and 3 will be very interesting. Make the big changes at the lower levels where they have more time to develop and gradually bring the changes

 

[caravan8]

1. The "nonsense" i was referring to is Lynch bringing in new coaches which just isn't true because the staff is staying. 2. The point I am making is the last 2 years is a bad example to pin on the coaching staff. They got the most out of a not talented defense and will continue getting the most out of this years defense as well. There were kids starting who wouldn't be backups on many teams in the past. In the last two years the best college where a defensive player committed to was Cornell and I don't think there has been another D1 player from defense besides him (Cooper rotated and is going to Cincy)

Sorry for the confusion on the “nonsense” part being about new coaches. I thought you meant that saying they’ve struggled against the spread was nonsense.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

I believe all coaches say winning the league and winning the state are goals every year. At MC it seems the goals were beat SR, win the league, and win state. And even that evolved to beat SR/BR and then Beat SR/BR/LA, win the league, and win state. Over the last 12 years (that's when Holecek started at LA) MC is 25 and 23 in conference.

One week to prepare in the playoffs to stop MC offense was a clear advantage for MC. With a change in coaching and a new offense could MC win more league games but give up their advantage in the playoffs?

 

[krock the house]

Kids nowadays want to play in the spread

 

[caravan8]

One week to prepare in the playoffs to stop MC offense was a clear advantage for MC. With a change in coaching and a new offense could MC win more league games but give up their advantage in the playoffs?

Interesting observation and very possible. I sure hope not because while I like winning conference games, I would much rather win State. I Do know that the offense defiantly helped when MC faced playoff opponents it hadn’t seen before. I’m hoping that they don’t abandon the run altogether for a pass happy offense.

 

[caravan8]

Kids nowadays want to play in the spread

Simeon Rice tells a great story of how he wanted to be a RB, coach Frank told him and his family he would be better suited as a DE. It worked out ok. I get your point but sometimes kids and their parents don’t know what’s best for themselves.

 

[krock the house]

Simeon Rice tells a great story of how he wanted to be a RB, coach Frank told him and his family he would be better suited as a DE. It worked out ok. I get your point but sometimes kids and their parents don’t know what’s best for themselves.

couldnt agree more but not really comparing apples to apples with my point.
all kids see on TV is the spread and thats what they want to play in.

 

[Bowie50]

Mccaravan I don't mean to continue calling you out but almost the entire defensive staff is staying (like it should) Dave Lenti is best DC in the state getting a lot more out of a not talented and beat up defense. Lost their best D linemen in week 3 (where they lacked any depth) didn't get best returning starter until week 8. and started kids the last 2 years who wouldn't have made the 2 deep on vast majority of teams in the past. "Experience stopping the spread" r u kidding almost every team MC plays is against the spread. How many points did normal, ESL, and Lake Zurich put up? especially what LZ did to Rita. If you follow the program and comment on it then please don't just spew nonsense

I’m sorry, but Dave Lenti is not better than Holecek. I know JOHN is the HC but he’s also the DC.

 

[caravan8]

couldnt agree more but not really comparing apples to apples with my point.
all kids see on TV is the spread and thats what they want to play in.

Totally agree with you. Kids want to emulate what they see on TV and that’s he world we live in. Hopefully it works out for the best for MC. I’m waiting for the day that MC unveils multiple uniform options and special “playoff” helmets.

 

[krock the house]

Totally agree with you. Kids want to emulate what they see on TV and that’s he world we live in. Hopefully it works out for the best for MC. I’m waiting for the day that MC unveils multiple uniform options and special “playoff” helmets.

haha exactly

 

[McCaravan]

Mccaravan I don't mean to continue calling you out but almost the entire defensive staff is staying (like it should) Dave Lenti is best DC in the state getting a lot more out of a not talented and beat up defense. Lost their best D linemen in week 3 (where they lacked any depth) didn't get best returning starter until week 8. and started kids the last 2 years who wouldn't have made the 2 deep on vast majority of teams in the past. "Experience stopping the spread" r u kidding almost every team MC plays is against the spread. How many points did normal, ESL, and Lake Zurich put up? especially what LZ did to Rita. If you follow the program and comment on it then please don't just spew nonsense

It was just speculation. Take it easy.

 

[krock the house]

It was just speculation. Take it easy.

Dave can definitely coach them up but he's not walking on water. How many all state players has he had? Trust me, he has the horses and always has

 

[stripes13]

This might be dumb, but why not run a mix of the old and new for the next two years, while implementing the full new offense on the lower levels?

 

[Cross Bones]

I like option more than the next guy, but I think some people here are giving the veer more credit than it deserves. It's not magical, it's not hard to prep for. It is hard to contend with a OL that generally bigger and better than the defensive front 7. MC's offense will be fine whether the do it from the gun or stay in the split backfield.

 

[SOUTHSIDECFD]

I’m sorry, but Dave Lenti is not better than Holecek. I know JOHN is the HC but he’s also the DC.

They are both very good coaches.

Over the last 12 league games head to head LA has out scored MC by only 31 (292 to 261) and SR out scored MC by only 19 (276 to 257). MC out scored BR by 174 (408 to 234) and PC by 58 (292 to 234).

While it's food for discussion but how do you quantify it? MC’s ball control offense means less snaps for their defense. How long does each HC keep their starters in when they get ahead? What is the talent level? To fairly judge the coaches they would have to have equal talent and the head coaches would have to keep the starters in all their games.

 

[woody6]

I have seen the defenses of Dave Lenti and his staff periodically over the decades against a vast multiplicity of offenses. He has successfully morphed the original "Michigan 5-2 Angle" scheme according to his personnel and the opposition. Even fronts have been incorporated when appropriate and the players apply similar alignment, technique and assignment principles as much as possible. They defend field, formation and situation along with always being "sound" in design. Dave possesses a wealth of experience in adapting and preparing their base defense to the varied offensive attacks that abound. Finally, you do not see MC defenses beating themselves, particularly with preventable penalties.

 

[caravan8]

Finally, you do not see MC defenses beating themselves, particularly with preventable penalties.

There seems to be an uptick in some preventable penalties the past few years (late hits, unsportsmanlike conduct,etc). Maybe I never noticed them before and just did the past few seasons because it seems like it happened at the time when it hurt them most.