Is it time for the Everyone Gets In playoff format?

[EdgyTim]

Don't look now but I keep hearing from several very reliable sources that this will be proposed soon and from all the feedback I've gotten I also expect it to pass if it's eventually brought to a vote.

The thought is this would be the best possible solution to the non stop confernce shakeups and scheduling nightmares.

Here is what I've heard will be proposed.

Week 8 regular season. Week 9 becomes Round 1 of the new playoff system if you will.

All 0-8 and 1-7 teams can decide to play a Week 9 game against another 0-8/1-7 team if they wish (not required). Those same teams would play just one game only and not advance.

Seed all teams as we do now with our Week 9 becoming Round 1 of the new playoff format so the need to any additional classes etc would not be required.

Line of thought is no more scheduling for 5 wins to get in.....higher seeded teams still get rewarded for a strong season but 2-7/3-6/4-4 teams get a shot at playoffs. Line of thought is that this would also allow for easier non-con scheduling....traditional conferences (CCL/West Sub/ESCC/Mid Illini etc) can remain in tact including conference titles etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

it will definitely slow down the Conference Hopping but I just cant get my mind around teams with losing records in the playoffs.. - but then again I see that in baseball and basketball (3-21 teams making playoffs) and I just shake my head.

Doesn't anyone want to "earn a playoff spot"? it's a good life lesson and more like the real world - but I guess some would be happy being 2-7 and getting beat 56-0 in week 9 by a 9-0 team........but hey "we made the playoffs?"

 

[cornerrat]

All.... How would regular season scheduling be done (in an equitable way) in a ten team conference? Ratsy

 

[mc140]

Doesn't anyone want to "earn a playoff spot"?

No.

 

[FalconPadre]

Don't look now but I keep hearing from several very reliable sources that this will be proposed soon and from all the feedback I've gotten I also expect it to pass if it's eventually brought to a vote.

The thought is this would be the best possible solution to the non stop confernce shakeups and scheduling nightmares.

Here is what I've heard will be proposed.

Week 8 regular season. Week 9 becomes Round 1 of the new playoff system if you will.

All 0-8 and 1-7 teams can decide to play a Week 9 game against another 0-8/1-7 team if they wish (not required). Those same teams would play just one game only and not advance.

Seed all teams as we do now with our Week 9 becoming Round 1 of the new playoff format so the need to any additional classes etc would not be required.

Line of thought is no more scheduling for 5 wins to get in.....higher seeded teams still get rewarded for a strong season but 2-7/3-6/4-4 teams get a shot at playoffs. Line of thought is that this would also allow for easier non-con scheduling....traditional conferences (CCL/West Sub/ESCC/Mid Illini etc) can remain in tact including conference titles etc.

Thoughts?

Being in the DVC and seeing 4-5 (W-L) teams not qualify for the playoffs but being good enough to win many other conferences is frustrating. However, those same weak conferences putting in their worst teams to play some of the best teams in the state could be pretty frightening. Could be some triple digit scoring games in the first round.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Being in the DVC and seeing 4-5 (W-L) teams not qualify for the playoffs but being good enough to win many other conferences is frustrating. However, those same weak conferences putting in their worst teams to play some of the best teams in the state could be pretty frightening. Could be some triple digit scoring games in the first round.

You hit the nail on the head Falcon!. There are a lot of 4-5 teams in tough conferences that deserve to be in the playoffs over a bunch of 6-3 & 5-4 teams from "lesser conferences"

I don't want to pull out examples which might offend folks - but I know in my heart that some of the DVC teams at 4-5 and even 3-6 would compete and have a better showing in round 1 than many other schools that make it in as 5-4 teams. you can call me biased - but I know that to be true.............. (my perception is my reality )

This is the issue that the call for "playoffs for all' is trying to address ( that and also the schools at the bottom rungs of each conference looking to go to even weaker conferences and/or play smaller and smaller schools to attain the magical 5th win)

 

[Cross Bones]

Sounds awful. The 56-6 game is the 9-0 vs the typical 5-4. Your 9-0 against the 1-8 team is going to look a lot worse. I was A-line with the 5-4's because it allowed us for regular season games good enough to be championship games, but I don't think teams who can't win even want to be in the playoffs, why would they?

I like the Joliet C approach where they get those two wins and that progress builds optimism to keep it going to hopefully eventually be a playoff team in the current format.

I'm okay with the conference hopping.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

I think it depends on which end of the prizim one is viewing "conference hopping".

If your school is historically a "weaker" type team - most conferences looking for members would welcome you with open arms (one would think anyways) also everyone will want to play you for a non conference game. So - from a scheduling standpoint - life is good!!

On the other end - let's take the recent DVC upheaval as an example. Everyone wanted to leave the conference except the heavy hitters. West Aurora bailed and then others West Chicago etc etc. Fast forward - no one wanted to join. They end up playing each other twice! They then get the Valleys to join. The Valleys (IMO) comported themselves well in the conference the past 2 years and what happens? 4 schools leave. Fast forward - no one wants to join the conference for "whatever reason" Boilingbrook, Oswego, Oswego East all good fits geographically and school size wise and all decline. Seems the Naperville's and Valleys have cooties or something! Someone should hand them some special shampoo cuz for some reason no one wants to enter a conference with them.... if I was a coach or an AD at any of those 5 schools, I would not be a happy camper.

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out -

 

[Wittymoniker1]

Don't look now but I keep hearing from several very reliable sources that this will be proposed soon and from all the feedback I've gotten I also expect it to pass if it's eventually brought to a vote.

The thought is this would be the best possible solution to the non stop confernce shakeups and scheduling nightmares.

Here is what I've heard will be proposed.

Week 8 regular season. Week 9 becomes Round 1 of the new playoff system if you will.

All 0-8 and 1-7 teams can decide to play a Week 9 game against another 0-8/1-7 team if they wish (not required). Those same teams would play just one game only and not advance.

Seed all teams as we do now with our Week 9 becoming Round 1 of the new playoff format so the need to any additional classes etc would not be required.

Line of thought is no more scheduling for 5 wins to get in.....higher seeded teams still get rewarded for a strong season but 2-7/3-6/4-4 teams get a shot at playoffs. Line of thought is that this would also allow for easier non-con scheduling....traditional conferences (CCL/West Sub/ESCC/Mid Illini etc) can remain in tact including conference titles etc.

Thoughts?

Edgy, when you write, "Seed all teams as we do now . . ., " I am assuming geographic formations will not affect 7 and 8A? When I think of all teams making playoffs, I think of baseball and basketball where geography rules the day.

 

[godfthr53]

it will definitely slow down the Conference Hopping but I just cant get my mind around teams with losing records in the playoffs.. - but then again I see that in baseball and basketball (3-21 teams making playoffs) and I just shake my head.

Doesn't anyone want to "earn a playoff spot"? it's a good life lesson and more like the real world - but I guess some would be happy being 2-7 and getting beat 56-0 in week 9 by a 9-0 team........but hey "we made the playoffs?"

there's plenty enough 56-0 in the playoffs now. Just look at some of the scores.

 

[guerinfbfan]

We see hoops scores of teams winning by 70+ points in IHSA regionals, no one says winless or 1 win teams can't play in those games.

Let everyone in!

Can't wait to see a good 2 or 3 win team knock off a soft 9-0 or 8-1 team.

 

[stonedlizard]

I still (biasly) support a power points based system

 

[EdgyTim]

Edgy, when you write, "Seed all teams as we do now . . ., " I am assuming geographic formations will not affect 7 and 8A? When I think of all teams making playoffs, I think of baseball and basketball where geography rules the day.

Correct no talk of any changes to geography here

 

[NNFAN]

I think it depends on which end of the prizim one is viewing "conference hopping".

If your school is historically a "weaker" type team - most conferences looking for members would welcome you with open arms (one would think anyways) also everyone will want to play you for a non conference game. So - from a scheduling standpoint - life is good!!

On the other end - let's take the recent DVC upheaval as an example. Everyone wanted to leave the conference except the heavy hitters. West Aurora bailed and then others West Chicago etc etc. Fast forward - no one wanted to join. They end up playing each other twice! They then get the Valleys to join. The Valleys (IMO) comported themselves well in the conference the past 2 years and what happens? 4 schools leave. Fast forward - no one wants to join the conference for "whatever reason" Boilingbrook, Oswego, Oswego East all good fits geographically and school size wise and all decline. Seems the Naperville's and Valleys have cooties or something! Someone should hand them some special shampoo cuz for some reason no one wants to enter a conference with them.... if I was a coach or an AD at any of those 5 schools, I would not be a happy camper.

Will be interesting to see how it shakes out -

Regarding the DVC... I just don't understand why WN, WWS, GN, and Lake Park voted to include NV, WV, and MV, then (just a few years later) leave the conference complaining that those teams are "too big". They should not have voted them in to begin with. And shame on West Aurora and Glenbard East for leaving a few years back. West Aurora was the largest school in the conference.

 

[Cross Bones]

Regarding the DVC... I just don't understand why WN, WWS, GN, and Lake Park voted to include NV, WV, and MV, then (just a few years later) leave the conference complaining that those teams are "too big". They should not have voted them in to begin with. And shame on West Aurora and Glenbard East for leaving a few years back. West Aurora was the largest school in the conference.

But look at them now. A couple good years under their belts and are competitive with anyone...at least past year judging by the MS game.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Regarding the DVC... I just don't understand why WN, WWS, GN, and Lake Park voted to include NV, WV, and MV, then (just a few years later) leave the conference complaining that those teams are "too big". They should not have voted them in to begin with. And shame on West Aurora and Glenbard East for leaving a few years back. West Aurora was the largest school in the conference.

Yeah - it's a total head scratcher. If all 4 voted no - it would never have happened. I think two things:

1. the stress and desperation drove a begrudging yes vote just to stop the current pain (viewed as a stop gap solution)

2. Then when the Valleys actually competed well and started taking 2 football playoff spots away from "other DVC teams" each year - that didn't sit well with "some" schools and hence the complaint of the massive size disparity of the 1900 and 2000 kid schools going up against Waubonsie and Metea with their massive 2500 and 2700 kid student body.

 

[NNFAN]

We have already watered down the playoff system enough. Once upon a time... only conference champions made the playoffs, then 6-3 teams, now 5-4 teams. If some schools want to participate in a non IHSA sanctioned "losers bowl", go knock yourself out.

 

[NNFAN]

But look at them now. A couple good years under their belts and are competitive with anyone...at least past year judging by the MS game.

They had a great team last year, but that's one year. Let's see what happens going forward.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

But look at them now. A couple good years under their belts and are competitive with anyone...at least past year judging by the MS game.[/QUOTE

I have to wonder - would the same upswing have happened if they stayed in the DVC? Or is this an example of why schools want to find the weakest conference they can? - to "heal up" build up their program, get mor numbers out and during that process beat down on some really below average teams.

I have been watching D204 high school football for over 10 years and when the Valleys were in the upstate 8 (before Metea was built) there were only a couple real games durIng the regular season and usually that was non con games to try and test their teams. Most of the rest of the games were painful to watch and a lot of running clocks.

So - is it now time for West Aurora to move back to the DVC? I think they would do pretty well - I know they are looking for conference members now that the oswegos and Bolingbrook said no.

 

[BBCHS77]

What will be the next area to see a high school added? Minooka?

 

[EdgyTim]

What will be the next area to see a high school added? Minooka?

NO! Already have two campuses and in all honesty should have held off on adding the newer one on Route 6....

 

[BBCHS77]

NO! Already have two campuses and in all honesty should have held off on adding the newer one on Route 6....

201 is in early planning stages of adding a few schools, starting to see more new roof tops.

 

[ignazio]

The mismatches (e.g.running clocks) are due to lack of proper seeding, not letting in too many or too few teams.

Good teams will usually just take a solid lead and rest the stars.

 

[atsirabb]

Yeah - it's a total head scratcher. If all 4 voted no - it would never have happened. I think two things:

1. the stress and desperation drove a begrudging yes vote just to stop the current pain (viewed as a stop gap solution)

2. Then when the Valleys actually competed well and started taking 2 football playoff spots away from "other DVC teams" each year - that didn't sit well with "some" schools and hence the complaint of the massive size disparity of the 1900 and 2000 kid schools going up against Waubonsie and Metea with their massive 2500 and 2700 kid student body.

Yes. Having an additional 500-1500+ students to potentially participate changes every program within the schools. It's hard enough today to get 35-50 students to come out for Freshman football...
2017 Valley Enrollment:
Metea 2853
WV 2573
NC 2845
NEQ 3698
NN 2740
2017 Others Enrollment:
GBN 2229
LP 2601
WN 2101
WWS 2009

 

[redmen85]

Edgy,
Do you ever see Minooka going to 2 separate high schools?

 

[EdgyTim]

Edgy,
Do you ever see Minooka going to 2 separate high schools?

Was suppose to happen I believe in 2014....I mean never say never but it's not on the near term radar. I'd settle for a respectable football field and maybe any sort of upgrades to it's facilities...which are HORRIBLE FYI

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Yes. Having an additional 500-1500+ students to potentially participate changes every program within the schools. It's hard enough today to get 35-50 students to come out for Freshman football...
2017 Valley Enrollment:
Metea 2853
WV 2573
NC 2845
NEQ 3698
NN 2740
2017 Others Enrollment:
GBN 2229
LP 2601
WN 2101
WWS 2009

I would agree with the 1500 student part of the argument, but two areas I would beg to differ.

1. I don't see a huge Football difference between 2000-2100 student Wheaton's and 2500-2800 student WV/MV. 500 kids which is about 250 boys spread across 4 grades - an extra 63 boys per grade level to draw upon. Say 5percent play football - an extra 3 football players per class? Waubonsie last year had a smaller varsity roster than both Wheaton's I believe. (last year varsity roster was 65 kids at WV I think).

2. Everyone seems ok with Lake Park in the new 7A conference. Why is their enrollment of 2600 not an issue?

 

[guerinfbfan]

I would agree with the 1500 student part of the argument, but two areas I would beg to differ.

1. I don't see a huge Football difference between 2000-2100 student Wheaton's and 2500-2800 student WV/MV. 500 kids which is about 250 boys spread across 4 grades - an extra 63 boys per grade level to draw upon. Say 5percent play football - an extra 3 football players per class? Waubonsie last year had a smaller varsity roster than both Wheaton's I believe. (last year varsity roster was 65 kids at WV I think).

2. Everyone seems ok with Lake Park in the new 7A conference. Why is their enrollment of 2600 not an issue?

My total guess would be is that LP isn't consistently good in football.

 

[atsirabb]

I would agree with the 1500 student part of the argument, but two areas I would beg to differ.

1. I don't see a huge Football difference between 2000-2100 student Wheaton's and 2500-2800 student WV/MV. 500 kids which is about 250 boys spread across 4 grades - an extra 63 boys per grade level to draw upon. Say 5percent play football - an extra 3 football players per class? Waubonsie last year had a smaller varsity roster than both Wheaton's I believe. (last year varsity roster was 65 kids at WV I think).

2. Everyone seems ok with Lake Park in the new 7A conference. Why is their enrollment of 2600 not an issue?

Agreed. A couple hundred students shouldn't matter.
*I know one key factor challenging the Wheaton schools N/S is no middle school football programs. The BGYFL league - Wheaton Rams has had their Wheaton participation drop dramatically throughout the last few years... *until just recently, they've always struggled with a weight/age criteria per league rules, which forces bigger/younger to "play up" a year or two (kids/parents don't like it... so they don't play at all), whereas Naperville has Jr High football programs where they all learn and play together (stripe) and move forward together.
Again, just my opinion. I'm certain there were other factors than just football.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Agreed. A couple hundred students shouldn't matter.
*I know one key factor challenging the Wheaton schools N/S is no middle school football programs. The BGYFL league - Wheaton Rams has had their Wheaton participation drop dramatically throughout the last few years... *until just recently, they've always struggled with a weight/age criteria per league rules, which forces bigger/younger to "play up" a year or two (kids/parents don't like it... so they don't play at all), whereas Naperville has Jr High football programs where they all learn and play together (stripe) and move forward together.
Again, just my opinion. I'm certain there were other factors than just football.

Yeah I never liked the requirement for bigger/younger to have to play up a year or two. That is a sure fire way to have kids drop out over time. They don't get to play with their friends and they get to play with older kids some of whom are going thru puberty and are much stronger/faster even though they are about the same size/weight.

Stripers is a good compromise for grade school and into 7th grade etc. I personally think by 8th grade all those "rules" should go away and no striping.

 

[ClownBaby]

Regarding the DVC... I just don't understand why WN, WWS, GN, and Lake Park voted to include NV, WV, and MV, then (just a few years later) leave the conference complaining that those teams are "too big". They should not have voted them in to begin with. And shame on West Aurora and Glenbard East for leaving a few years back. West Aurora was the largest school in the conference.

I could be wrong but I was alway under the impression that 4 Dukane Schools never wanted the Valley schools and the Naperville schools were the only ones that were truly in favor of it? The Dukane Schools begrudgingly went along along with it since they had no other options until they did and they jumped at it.

I wrote before the they played the first game in the new DVC that the league wouldn't be around in 5 years and I was wrong it only took 3.

 

[ses7363]

Who remember when only Conference champs made the playoffs? Back when Reavis won a state title, they beat Eisenhower 7 to 3 and Eisenhower ended their season 8-1 and didn't go to the playoffs.

 

[woody6]

Who remember when only Conference champs made the playoffs? Back when Reavis won a state title, they beat Eisenhower 7 to 3 and Eisenhower ended their season 8-1 and didn't go to the playoffs.

Check this one out. Rich Central hosts Tinley Park (both 8-0) in 1978 playing each other in Week 9. TP loses by 1 point in OT and stays home from the conference champs-only playoffs.

 

[NNFAN]

I could be wrong but I was alway under the impression that 4 Dukane Schools never wanted the Valley schools and the Naperville schools were the only ones that were truly in favor of it? The Dukane Schools begrudgingly went along along with it since they had no other options until they did and they jumped at it.

I wrote before the they played the first game in the new DVC that the league wouldn't be around in 5 years and I was wrong it only took 3.

Yep... murderers row. I didn't want the Valley schools either... GE and WA leaving caused a domino effect that will be felt for years. If only the Plainfield schools would have joined.

 

[Cross Bones]

Check this one out. Rich Central hosts Tinley Park (both 8-0) in 1978 playing each other in Week 9. TP loses by 1 point in OT and stays home from the conference champs-only playoffs.

Those days sound awful.

 

[UlbKA91]

Did any 5-4 or even 4-5 conference winners get in before the 1986 Chicago Kenwood Broncos? They got in the somewhat expanded format at 4-5/4-1 conference and upset a mumps plagued Rita 12-0 in round 1.

 

[EdgyTim]

Those days sound awful.

Ok Bones nice try "those days" lol

 

[mchsalumni]

Agreed. A couple hundred students shouldn't matter.
*I know one key factor challenging the Wheaton schools N/S is no middle school football programs. The BGYFL league - Wheaton Rams has had their Wheaton participation drop dramatically throughout the last few years... *until just recently, they've always struggled with a weight/age criteria per league rules, which forces bigger/younger to "play up" a year or two (kids/parents don't like it... so they don't play at all), whereas Naperville has Jr High football programs where they all learn and play together (stripe) and move forward together.
Again, just my opinion. I'm certain there were other factors than just football.

@Voodoo Tatum 21 and @atsirabb this changes for this season. The U system is now in place for BGYFL.

 

[ignazio]

Would the CPS be all in on this too?

Keep in mind, they've lost nearly 20,000 students in the past two years.
I honestly think they don't like playing those games, as the kids and families would see just how lousy they have it.

 

[Wassup13]

So the first 8 games now mean absolutely nothing......

Let's give everyone a trophy approach.

Wassup