just looking at the AP list of two classes. if i was one of the top 10 5A schools i would have a better chance in 6A playoffs.....IMHO.
is it me or is top 6A teams weaker than top 5A teams?
- Thread starter HighSchooldad
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Disagree. With ESL in 5a and Simeon out, 5a is tougher at the top end
If it was SHG at the top of 6A and not a team that manhandled them would people think this? I doubt it. Crete, Prairie Ridge, Cary Grove... I vehemently disagree.
In the rankings outside of ESL who does 5A have? And ESL will probably be 6A.
Hillcrest has played up in class to beat Richards and Lemont plus narrowly lost to 8A Brother Rice, then Montini's only losses are to 8A Notre Dame and 7A Mt. Carmel.
To note, Sterling played up in class as well 4 games beating 7A Moline, Rock Island, Quincy and Pekin, not that they were great teams for 7A but they were twice their enrollment.
Montini's best win is Rita. While it is a good win, it doesn't say "better than the top of 6A".
Hillcrest is one score better than Sandburg.
I'm pretty sure we all agreed that this year 5A < 4A < 6A
My friend how much better really is the WB6 compared to the old NIB12 conference? I have real doubts on the WB6 but you know me hoping the Warriors make a deep run.
Esl will be 6a unless there are like 4 or 5, 5 loss teams that make it in.
I'll toss in my 5 cents:
WB6 is better than the old NIB12 West in terms of depth and talent. In my opinion, most of the old NIB12 East programs would fare very well in the WB6 (based on what I've seen this year).
It's a small sample size (this year only) but it feels like some of the WB6 teams are not as polished as they are athletic, if that makes sense.
IMHO, there’s a lot of good individual talent in the WB6. I don’t know if coaching is the issue or what but it doesn’t translate to better teams. Much tougher than the NIB12 west though. But I miss the sycamore/kaneland/Dekalb/Morris/Yorkville crossovers because the East had the talent and coaching combo the WB6 doesn’t have.
edit— was beat to the punch saying basically the same thing
I agree that if ESL goes 6A, no way does 5A even compare with 6A in terms of the top 5A teams having a better chance in 6A. As you said, who does 5A have if ESL isn't there. And having ESL in 5A would make the deficiencies in the other 5A teams even more obvious. I think an ESL/Prairie Ridge 6A final, for example, would be a LOT more competitive than any ESL/(Pick your team) 5A final.
In games where I could find top 6A and 5A teams playing each other, 5A faired pretty well. I have no doubt that the top teams in 5A compare quite favorably with the top teams in 6A
5A Hillcrest beat the #6 6A team RIchards 34-17
5A Rita beat beat #5 6A team Providence 22-0
5A Kankakee lost to #2 6A Crete-Monee by a single point.
The only difference is ESL. Everyone else is on a reasonably level playing field.
So if ESL goes 6A that's a tougher group by virtue of them being there. If they go 5A it flips to 5A being tougher.
So if ESL goes 6A that's a tougher group by virtue of them being there. If they go 5A it flips to 5A being tougher.
You are correct, in a one score game. I think that reinforces the point of how comparable the two classes are. I would agree with mchsalumi in that ESL is the difference. The rest of the top teams in 5A and 6A are pretty even.
I think you guys are over estimating Hillcrest. I also am not seeing which 5A teams are matching up with PR, CM, C-G, and Chatham. Not to mention Richards beat Rita.
Not seeing the tie here at all.
Not seeing the tie here at all.
Honestly the top 4-5 in any given class are probably going to be somewhat close or *gasp* the lower class could be tougher overall (among those 4-5 teams) in a given year. I don't see how this is so hard for people to realize. I thought back about 10 years ago the tops in 3a were tougher than the tops in 4a......Now it would not surprise me that if tops in 2a are tougher than the tops 3a.....It can all change year by year
I agree, that's why I made the thread about 4A being better than 5A which after initial resistance people seemed to come around to the fact of the matter. And that was before SF emerged as a contender. So we have Rochester, SF, ICC, Coal City etc that would probably win 5A if ESL is 6A.
ESL matches up with PR
Kankakee already matched up pretty nicely with CM (lost by a point)
Ill take Rita over C-G and Montini over Chatham, who has yet to play a team who is any good.
If you want to go farther, Ill take Hillcrest over RIchards( already beat them by 2 scores). In addition, I've seen both JCA and PC numerous times and that game is a toss up.
Just for kicks and giggles, I looked up what Massey and Calpreps algo thought. These algos are correct ~ 80% this late in the season. We checked it last year in the CCL prediction thread during state playoff time. So, I assume it to be a better gauge than subjective eyes. Used St. Rita, the number 7 team in 5A.
Calpreps
PR wins 34-28
CG loses 28-19
CM loses 38-24
Glen-Chat loses 27-24
Massey
PR wins 35-30
CG loses 27-20
CM loses 40-24
Glen-Chat loses 34-20
I never thought a one score loss on the road in week 2 meant a team couldn’t compete with that team.
ESL is going to be 6A.
Chatham handled SHG, if the roles were reversed people would be touting SHG.
I'll give you Hillcrest over Richards. Richards nearly lost to LWC and Hillcrest nearly lost to Sandburg. This doesn't necessarily highlight the strength of either class. Only Hillcrest is higher in 5A than Richards is in 6A.
@RockSoup didn't say Rita wasn't competitive with Richards. Also Calpreps?
As had been said time and again, the real difference in each class is typically 5-32.
I don't know about that. Maybe Rochester but they are in a closed conference so will see.
Not this year. SHG is a 5th place team in their conference. Not a signature win for Glenwood.
definitely you both, how can you say that when last time esl was in 6a lost to Richards. I do not care who they have to play, pr, cg, dogs, crete, lemont. etc. can and would give them a game
How does a playoff game 6 years ago have anything to do with this years ESL team? And I think you are wrong, most of those teams you list would get clocked by ESL.
Well we will be finding out over the next five weeks.
I guess we will see. should be in 6a if all works out right.
im guessing they have struggles with aggressive defenses, and power offenses. and I think the top4 teams in 5a will give them a game and compete very well with them. just my thoughts.
don't know anything about them this year. but what i can tell you is that every year they the top of their class and struggle with power offenses and aggressive defenses. if you make them get out of their comfort zone they get frustrated. if you make them beat you on the ground it will be a long day for them, if you let them beat you deep in the air it will be a very long day for you.
it is the same every year. they are very good and very talented on both sides of the ball but, the same game plan coaching still exists. my point is if you are going into each game trying out talent them you are going to lose big. if you go in trying to control the clock you will frustrate them.
they will take a track meet every game and be able to out point you.
but in this one the turtle wins the game. just don't know who is or willing to be the turtle.
Given the supposed uncertainty regarding into which Class (5A or 6A) ESL will fall, I am interested in knowing the reason why someone says they will definitely end up in this or that Class. What is your reason for saying that "ESL is going to be 6A."?
Chatham handling SHG, at least this year, was no big accomplishment. Depending on what the Cyclones do Friday against Decatur McArthur, they will end up 4th or 5th in their league. What is more noticeable regarding Chatham is the 59 points they have given up this year through 8 games, and they are only 45 points behind Rochester in scoring (400 for Chatham to 445 for Rochester). I am more than interested in seeing how they play against each other this Friday. In terms of the regular season at least, this will be each team's toughest game by a huge margin, and definitely the toughest game Rochester will have all year (Sorry IC, Coal City, et al.).
Keep in mind that game was 7-6 final .. ESL had a TD called back. And almost pulled it off in the last second. But a loss is a loss
All.... Firth place? That hasn't been determined yet. We will see this Friday. Ratsy
I have a lot of respect for the athletic program at Chatham Glenwood.
I'd hate to comment on them this season as I have not seen them play. It appears that they play some defense having only given up 59 points in 8 games.
I'd hate to comment on them this season as I have not seen them play. It appears that they play some defense having only given up 59 points in 8 games.
All.... Maybe 5A is going to be a bit more fun. The wise one adding Mt. Zion and Rochester. Ratsy
Yes Every game is a challenge as most teams will have nothing to lose. Which is why you go all out.
