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I'm going to play around with some districts.....

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Souc

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2001
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I'm going to do it two ways.

1) The way the map thinks it should be done for both the bigger and smaller classes.

2) In the bigger classes, I know for a fact, that straight geography is going to make for some AWFUL district imbalance.

So I think I'm going to try to maybe go with a weighted 3-year average to see if I can do something with a little more balance.

All that being said, I still have no idea what I'm going to do with the SouthWestern Conference, I hope Lockport enjoys the trip to Belleville......

I'll let you know how I progress.

I'm going to be using 2017 enrollment numbers, so it will be an imprecise study. But I want to see what it looks like.

How you can help:

Remind me which teams are moving up or losing the multiplier (For example, completely forgot Boylan doesn't have it anymore.)
 
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I believe Carmel Catholic will be exempt from the multiplier in '18.
 
Souc said:
I'm going to do it two ways.

1) The way the map thinks it should be done for both the bigger and smaller classes.

2) In the bigger classes, I know for a fact, that straight geography is going to make for some AWFUL district imbalance.

So I think I'm going to try to maybe go with a weighted 3-year average to see if I can do something with a little more balance.

All that being said, I still have no idea what I'm going to do with the SouthWestern Conference, I hope Lockport enjoys the trip to Belleville......

I'll let you know how I progress.

I'm going to be using 2017 enrollment numbers, so it will be an imprecise study. But I want to see what it looks like.

How you can help:

Remind me which teams are moving up or losing the multiplier (For example, completely forgot Boylan doesn't have it anymore.)
Click to expand...

Why am I not surprised :)
 
Souc said:
In the bigger classes, I know for a fact, that straight geography is going to make for some AWFUL district imbalance.
Click to expand...

I gotta believe that the IHSA will have some sort of provision that states that schools can be placed in a district class immediately below so as to avoid regular season games greater than X miles of distance or greater than X miles of travel over the course of the regular season.
 
Update:

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out exactly what should be done with CPS teams. Unlike past seasons where a limited number of Chicago Division teams would make the playoffs, with districts, you've got to put them all into the district scenario. This will alter the open classification lines (just a little) and present a scenario where about half of the 64 districts will require a ninth team.

This is slowing me down a bit, but I hope to have some mapped districts by Wednesday.
 
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7A by class and geography / Chicago Metro South:

St. Rita
Mount Carmel
Simeon
Blue Island
Hubbard
Kelly
Argo
Reavis
Whitney Young

I’m sure ALL the schools in the above list are ecstatic about this District concept!
 
tomloner said:
7A by class and geography / Chicago Metro South:

St. Rita
Mount Carmel
Simeon
Blue Island
Hubbard
Kelly
Argo
Reavis
Whitney Young

I’m sure ALL the schools in the above list are ecstatic about this District concept!
Click to expand...

The above might make sense if Rita and MC were to be in the same district. The reality is that they could be split up. All depends on where one district starts and the other ends. It could also easily look like this:

Rita
Whitney Young (will they even have a team again after last year's forfeits?)
Fenwick
Argo
Reavis
Proviso East
Willowbrook
Addison Trail
Wheaton North

and

Mount Carmel
Simeon
Eisenhower
Hubbard
Kelly
Andrew
Thornwood
Thornton
Bradley
 
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ramblinman said:
The above might make sense if Rita and MC were to be in the same district. The reality is that they could be split up. All depends on where one district starts and the other ends. It could also easily look like this:

Rita
Whitney Young (will they even have a team again after last year's forfeits?)
Fenwick
Argo
Reavis
Proviso East
Willowbrook
Addison Trail
Wheaton North

and

Mount Carmel
Simeon
Eisenhower
Hubbard
Kelly
Andrew
Thornwood
Thornton
Bradley
Click to expand...

No way the IHSA lets all of the Catholic Blue in different Districts. Even in some down years they could win all their Districts. With that kind of seeding too many teams in the semifinals. I see MC and SR in same District. In the above brackets MC would have to dive past SR to get to Hubbard and Kelly. SR is closer to Andrew and and Simeon than is MC. I see the CPS nixing the District idea. Too many potential forfeits.
 
Within CPS circles many fear football programs being completely eliminated or teams separating themselves foregoing any chance at the state playoffs. As it stands now, the Noble street charter schools currently do that. Many teams simply cannot compete.
 
Iluvftbl1 said:
What Southwest 8a schools get stuck traveling to St Louis area
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7A would be brutal travel
Belleville (West)
Alton (Sr.)
Edwardsville (H.S.)
New Lenox (Lincoln-Way West)
New Lenox (Lincoln-Way Central)
East St. Louis (Sr.)
Normal (Community)
Tinley Park (Andrew
Palos Hills (Stagg)
 
Edwardsville is for sure 8A and I would think LWC would be pretty close to 8A as well.
 
CCLGUY1964 said:
No way the IHSA lets all of the Catholic Blue in different Districts. Even in some down years they could win all their Districts.
Click to expand...

Assuming the top four schools in each district make the playoffs, would the IHSA want private schools taking the top two or three places in a district year in and year out? I highly doubt it. The public schools that fail to make the playoffs in such a district would scream bloody murder. Even the third and fourth place public schools would whine because they had crappy seeds due to regular season losses to the big bad catlicks.
 
Iluvftbl1 said:
What Southwest 8a schools get stuck traveling to St Louis area
Click to expand...

Maybe none.

If districts come to fruition, I think the IHSA will put in some sort of travel clause that will allow schools from adjoining classes to be in the same district. Such a clause would likely state that no school will travel more than a total of XXX miles over the course of a regular season to play in district games. If that were the case, they would have to allow for either smaller districts or form districts with schools from two adjoining classes.
 
When travelling I was reading a newspaper from SW Wisconsin and the new districts drawn and the effect on a local HS. Potentially 3 games with a one-way distance of 150 miles! Talk about consuming loads of time from Friday afternoon to the wee hours of Saturday morning?
 
Ramblin
The up side to the districts is if you had a couple of traditionally tough schools in your district-you wouldn't cross paths with them in the playoffs until round 3.
Much better than rounds 1 or 2.
 
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If "School of Champions" Whitney Young can't field a team now, what's the chance they convince twenty kids to get on a bus headed up to Wilmette?
 
Would there be a way to keep all CPS schools together? That way they get representation in the playoffs and we have more even districts. I mean the CPS already has different rules in place in the current system where only certain amount of teams are allowed into the playoffs.
 
lkhammer57 said:
Would there be a way to keep all CPS schools together? That way they get representation in the playoffs and we have more even districts. I mean the CPS already has different rules in place in the current system where only certain amount of teams are allowed into the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

You bring up an interesting point here. CPS already has different rules in place when it comes to playoff. So it is possible and apparently okay to have different rules in place for certain sub-groups of schools.
 
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Cross Bones said:
Interesting.

You bring up an interesting point here. CPS already has different rules in place when it comes to playoff. So it is possible and apparently okay to have different rules in place for certain sub-groups of schools.
Click to expand...
They already have 8 conferences that have teams that are allowed to qualify for the playoffs, and half of those conferences are 6 team conferences and the other half are 8 team conferences. That's 56 schools, if you break that up, they should be able to have 7 districts of 8 teams. Now I don't know the enrollment of all these schools, so that might be the only problem, but it should be fine for the mid sized classes such 4a thru 6a.
 
Cross Bones said:
So it is possible and apparently okay to have different rules in place for certain sub-groups of schools.
Click to expand...

As long as those rules are not punitive/onerous and the sub group is in general agreement with them...as I believe to be the case with the CPS playoff eligibility rules. Otherwise, it's not okay.

Actually, I believe those different playoff rules for CPS are self-imposed, as opposed to having the rules foisted upon them by the IHSA.
 
redmen85 said:
Ramblin
The up side to the districts is if you had a couple of traditionally tough schools in your district-you wouldn't cross paths with them in the playoffs until round 3.
Much better than rounds 1 or 2.
Click to expand...

I get that. But putting traditionally tough private schools into different, but nearby, districts would likely have them cross paths in round two. I wouldn't put it past the IHSA to make districts like that if for no other reason than to purposely set up early round games between private schools.
 
ramblinman said:
As long as those rules are not punitive/onerous and the sub group is in general agreement with them...as I believe to be the case with the CPS playoff eligibility rules. Otherwise, it's not okay.

Actually, I believe those different playoff rules for CPS are self-imposed, as opposed to having the rules foisted upon them by the IHSA.
Click to expand...
So what you are saying is that the CPS recognized an issue and were proactive in addressing it there by not leaving it up to the IHSA to do anything? Interesting.

I would argue that not being eligible for the playoffs is more punitive than whatever you may be referring to. Although I would probably argue neither is punitive depending on what you may be referring to.

Definition of is, is
 
lkhammer57 said:
They already have 8 conferences that have teams that are allowed to qualify for the playoffs, and half of those conferences are 6 team conferences and the other half are 8 team conferences. That's 56 schools, if you break that up, they should be able to have 7 districts of 8 teams. Now I don't know the enrollment of all these schools, so that might be the only problem, but it should be fine for the mid sized classes such 4a thru 6a.
Click to expand...
Enrollment size and open enrollment would be an issue here. And if they were simply geographically based then I don't know how you keep the CPS schools together. Lot of problems I can forsee with this district thing.

The St. Louis Metro Area being another. Another being the multiplier/success factors in conjunction with conference alignment. It just looks like a bad idea all around.
 
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Cross Bones said:
Enrollment size and open enrollment would be an issue here. And if they were simply geographically based then I don't know how you keep the CPS schools together. Lot of problems I can forsee with this district thing.

The St. Louis Metro Area being another. Another being the multiplier/success factors in conjunction with conference alignment. It just looks like a bad idea all around.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's an idea with flaws for sure, I just think the IHSA needs to get a little creative if they go the district way. The CPS is just such a different ball of wax compared to the rest of the state.
 
Cross Bones said:
So what you are saying is that the CPS recognized an issue and were proactive in addressing it there by not leaving it up to the IHSA to do anything? Interesting.

I would argue that not being eligible for the playoffs is more punitive than whatever you may be referring to. Although I would probably argue neither is punitive depending on what you may be referring to.
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges.

First and foremost, CPS is CPS. It is a tax-supported, governmental entity that governs 135 public high schools that are all members of the IHSA. There is no private school equivalent that would have the right to make decisions like that for all, or even most, of the private schools in Illinois. Not even close.

Second, what CPS has done is not punitive in their minds. It was done in the best interests of their schools and students, not in the supposed interests of the remainder of the IHSA membership in an attempt to "level the playing field."

Third, CPS did what it did so as to avoid embarrassment and injury to the players from its schools that are woefully uncompetitive within the enrollment-based playoff classification system used by the IHSA. If the IHSA were to allow a competitive factor into the playoff classification system, perhaps the CPS would not feel compelled to be so protective of its uncompetitive schools, and the IHSA playoffs would be more inclusive as a result.

Lastly, what the CPS did was limited to one sport. What the IHSA has done to private schools through the multiplier and success factor applies to all multi-class sports, and it was most certainly not done in the interests of the students from those schools.

You are trying to draw a parallel between two dissimilar things, and doing a very poor job of it as a result.
 
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ramblinman said:
Apples and oranges.

First and foremost, CPS is CPS. It is a tax-supported, governmental entity that governs 135 public high schools that are all members of the IHSA. There is no private school equivalent that would have the right to make decisions like that for all, or even most, of the private schools in Illinois. Not even close.

Second, what CPS has done is not punitive in their minds. It was done in the best interests of their schools and students, not in the supposed interests of the remainder of the IHSA membership in an attempt to "level the playing field."

Third, CPS did what it did so as to avoid embarrassment and injury to the players from its schools that are woefully uncompetitive within the enrollment-based playoff classification system used by the IHSA. If the IHSA were to allow a competitive factor into the playoff classification system, perhaps the CPS would not feel compelled to be so protective of its uncompetitive schools, and the IHSA playoffs would be more inclusive as a result.

Lastly, what the CPS did was limited to one sport. What the IHSA has done to private schools through the multiplier and success factor applies to all multi-class sports, and it was most certainly not done in the interests of the students from those schools.

You are trying to draw a parallel between two dissimilar things, and doing a very poor job of it as a result.
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The parallel is drawn. You just don't like it because it lays some responsibility at your feet. You'd rather complain than come up with solutions.
 
The downstate 7A district has no good answer period. Bradley-Bourbonnais likely gets screwed no matter what with 8 schools per district. That might make a nice exception for a 7 school district...

Soucie's 4A's division of the I-8 schools is pretty hard to swallow, with two districts basically running the width of the state. Dividing those districts into eastern district and western district instead might make a lot of sense...Trade McNamara & Herscher for Kewanee & Rock Falls...A couple cps schools, Manteno, McNamara, Herscher, Coal City, Sandwich & Plano makes way more geographical sense than Rock Falls & Kewanee going to Manteno (and we thought there was no good way to get to Sandwich & Plano?), while Mac & Herscher have no reason to go to Peoria Manual....

Seems like the IHSA has found a way to make Westmont playoff eligible...put the Sentinels & Lisle in with a group of public league schools, which is likely with districts. And I'm sure Dwight & Seneca love the idea of rejoining Wilmington, although in districts that is going to happen until Dwight ends their GSW coop and Seneca shrinks into 2A...

Joliet Catholic probably devours its district every year...until it gets bumped back up. Meanwhile, Kankakee gets the I-80 district all the way west across the state, while JCA gets I-80 east & the Southland?...

Momence, Clifton Central & Watseka are probably happy with a bunch of CPS schools....Although Watseka in 2A must mean the end of the St. Anne coop experiment...
 
Interesting. The St. Louis/Plainfield district is a problem. I think the districts turn out differently depending on where you start.
 
Cross Bones said:
The parallel is drawn. You just don't like it because it lays some responsibility at your feet. You'd rather complain than come up with solutions.
Click to expand...

I've come up with plenty of solutions. NIPL, competitive influenced playoff classifications, etc. You just don't like it because it changes the status quo which is the discriminatory policies that you favor.
 
ramblinman said:
I've come up with plenty of solutions. NIPL, competitive influenced playoff classifications, etc. You just don't like it because it changes the status quo which is the discriminatory policies that you favor.
Click to expand...
NIPL does nothing other than leave and take your ball with you. That is a solution, but doesn't help with the apparently desired results of still being a part of the IHSA.

So no, you haven't come up with any solutions, but you do still complain about others attempting to find some. Even the CPS was able to recognize a problem and do something about it.

And let's not even start on your proposal to have 1A publics play 8A publics because they won 9 games. Probably one of the more absurd things I've come across here.
 
Cross Bones said:
And let's not even start on your proposal to have 1A publics play 8A publics because they won 9 games.
Click to expand...

That was not what I proposed. Not even close. Yet, you continue to trot out the same tired hyperbole to attempt to discredit what you simply do not like.

You're better than that.
 
Irritable Bowel Syndrome - a bad case of IBS could be inducing the more frequent flushing. The cure will be football season startIng!!
 
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