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You do realize you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth, right? In a previous post, you included ESL within your average of 10 studs per year in Illinois. In the post above, you are counting them in MO.

He is going by where they are from and not where they play. Very few of the ESL kids who are really good are actually went to school in ESL in Junior High. It is not hard to google.
 
There is plenty of talent in Illinois. I refuse to accept the thought otherwise.
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There is loads of talent here in Illinois. They would be a heck of a program if they would spend some time recruiting it.

Read 'em and weep:

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/sec-states-produce-tons-of-fbs-talent/amp/
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool
https://www.bannersociety.com/2020/2/4/21111828/college-football-recruits-by-state
https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals100/

Hey, Edgy, if you are reading this, when was the last time our state produced a five star recruit?
 
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huge
Illinois is not getting five star recruits from the South to come there. It is a waste of time. Urban Meyer turned down Texas and their unlimited pocketbook. He or anyone like him are not coming either.

If whoever comes in to coach Illinois has the same level of achievement (or lack thereof) as Lovie in terms of recruiting out of state, don't think for a minute that doing a better job recruiting within Illinois is going to get them very far within the Big Ten. The talent just isn't here. 7-8 wins a year is a huge stretch.
 
There is plenty of talent in Illinois. I refuse to accept the thought otherwise.

The Illini DID NOT GET ONE TOP 30 PLAYER IN THE STATE from this 2021 class - Rivals IL top 2021
Not one is 2020 class - Rivals IL top 2020
(2) for the 2019 class - Rivals IL top 2019
(2) for the 2018 class - IL Rivals top 2018

they didn't even offer the #1 in the state a scholarship!!! MAC UIHLEIN & he's going to NW. He's not going to OSU, Alabama, USC, etc. He's going to NW and not even an offer from U of I???

Their highest rated recruit, QB Samair Collier...chose U of I over Toledo and New Mexico St.
Their recruit that got the most pub in the newspapers yesterday was Olin Kreutz boy OL Josh Kreutz. I hope he is a heck of a player but he didn't have one other power 5 offer.

J.J. McCarthy never even took a visit there. But did visit NW (2x) & WI.

Indiana, Minnesota, Purude, Wisconsin, Toledo, NIU, NW, Iowa, Western Freakin Michigan all come in and out recruit U of I in their own state each year.



There is loads of talent here in Illinois. They would be a heck of a program if they would spend some time recruiting it. No reason they couldn't have 50% of their class each year be Illinois kids and have a top 25 program.
Look, Lovie did a terrible job recruiting in general. Not just in Illinois.

Yes, they must recruit Illinois better to be sure. But, they really need the right players regardless of where they are from. I don't want a coach settling on an IL QB in a class just to expedite a relationship with some HS coach and foregoing the kid from Georgia who may be a slightly better fit for whatever system and culture the coach has.

Yes, it is a double edged sword because you need to develop those relationships with coaches and programs. But in the end you have to recruit to your type of athlete and get the best athletes and fits you can.

As a long time Illinois fan, I would love to see us recruit the state better. I am sure the new coach will and, after several recruiting cycles with a competent recruiter, I am sure we can land 25-50% of the top 20 in state recruits. That is great. But it is a lazy red herring to imply that getting that kind of talent will get Illinois to 8 wins and relevance on an annual basis.

They need to upgrade their talent level. Improving their performance in IL will go a long way in doing that. The roster should see an uptick in home state players as a percentage of the overall makeup. But that is only one important piece of improving the overall talent level. Put in more effort, establish better relationships to help in state. But ultimately, get the best players you can period.
 
If whoever comes in to coach Illinois has the same level of achievement (or lack thereof) as Lovie in terms of recruiting out of state, don't think for a minute that doing a better job recruiting within Illinois is going to get them very far within the Big Ten. The talent just isn't here. 7-8 wins a year is a huge stretch.

Iowa and Wisconsin do it. Illinois is a lot closer to them and has a better recruiting base than a school who competes for multiple 5 star kids.
 
If whoever comes in to coach Illinois has the same level of achievement (or lack thereof) as Lovie in terms of recruiting out of state, don't think for a minute that doing a better job recruiting within Illinois is going to get them very far within the Big Ten. The talent just isn't here. 7-8 wins a year is a huge stretch.
If they could get 2-3 of the top talent in Illinois every year, as well as, a handful of the next tier of guys and then draw some talent from the rest of the country they would be well on their way to 7-8 wins a year.
 
You do realize you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth, right? In a previous post, you included ESL within your average of 10 studs per year in Illinois. In the post above, you are counting them in MO.
Do you realize you're wrong while being right?

Yes, I included them in the 10 from IL. Then MO nabbed them, as well as the SIX TOP actual MO players, making that eight the core of a top-20 class.

SO, State Unis CAN INDEED lock down a state ... and creep over borders.
 
If they could get 2-3 of the top talent in Illinois every year, as well as, a handful of the next tier of guys and then draw some talent from the rest of the country they would be well on their way to 7-8 wins a year.

Shows you how far our expectations have been lowered when people are citing 7-8 wins a year as something to strive for. 8-5 or 7-6, including a low-to-mid tier bowl game, while better than we are accustomed for the Illini, is what it is...above average but nothing to crow about. I'd like to think that University of Illinois leadership would shoot for better than that.
 
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Class of 2017. If true, then that's one 5 star recruit in the last four classes of Illinois graduates.

I rest my case.

You have a horrible case. Illinois should not be wasting their time going after 5 stars around the country. Lets start with competing for 3 and 4 star kids with other power 5 schools instead of beating out the MAC and Southland for players.
 
Shows you how far our expectations have been lowered when people are citing 7-8 wins a year as something to strive for. 8-5 or 7-6, including a low-to-mid tier bowl game, while better than we are accustomed for the Illini, is what it is...above average but nothing to crow about. I'd like to think that University of Illinois leadership would shoot for better than that.
I wasn't really striving for it, but it was you that said 7-8 wins was a stretch with in-state talent. Illinois got 3 OL in this class from Illinois, but imagine if they could have gotten 2 of the TOP lineman in this class. Kids better than the 3 they got.
 
You have a horrible case. Illinois should not be wasting their time going after 5 stars around the country. Lets start with competing for 3 and 4 star kids with other power 5 schools instead of beating out the MAC and Southland for players.
Certainly they can't waste their time doing that in Illinois either, since 5 stars are so few and far between here.
 
Certainly they can't waste their time doing that in Illinois either, since 5 stars are so few and far between here.
How much time do you think they waste on the 5 stars? Especially AJ? I mean he was going to Iowa out of the womb.
 
I wasn't really striving for it, but it was you that said 7-8 wins was a stretch with in-state talent. Illinois got 3 OL in this class from Illinois, but imagine if they could have gotten 2 of the TOP lineman in this class. Kids better than the 3 they got.

My first 7-8 wins reference was in response to mc140 who said Illinois could be a 7-8 win team each year if it could stop losing in state kids to universities in neighboring states. Of course, that's not possible. You can't keep every kid. That's why you need a high profile coach with a stellar reputation who can recruit talented kids from outside of Illinois.
 
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My first 7-8 wins reference was in response to mc140 who said we could Illinois could be a 7-8 win team each year if it could stop losing in state kids to universities in neighboring states.
I agree with him, if we could keep a couple of our most talented kids in state each year, we'd have a good base to add out of state talent to.
 
I agree with him, if we could keep a couple of our most talented kids in state each year, we'd have a good base to add out of state talent to.

Did you see that article link I posted earlier? Although from a few years ago, it showed that 1 out of every 636 high school football playing kids in Illinois go on to play at FBS schools. That ranked Illinois 28th out of all the states.
 
Did you see that article link I posted earlier? Although from a few years ago, it showed that 1 out of every 636 high school football playing kids in Illinois go on to play at FBS schools. That ranked Illinois 28th out of all the states.
I understand that, however, Illinois still needs to get a few of the 4 star and 3 star kids from Illinois. I'm not saying 6-7 kids, I'm saying 2-3 four star kids and 2-3 (3 star) kids from Illinois each year as a base. Last year they got 1 kid from Illinois (PWO). A few years before that, they got nobody. Got to do better than that. If nothing else, establish a pipeline of some sort with High School coaches in Illinois.
 
I understand that, however, Illinois still needs to get a few of the 4 star and 3 star kids from Illinois. I'm not saying 6-7 kids, I'm saying 2-3 four star kids and 2-3 (3 star) kids from Illinois each year as a base. Last year they got 1 kid from Illinois (PWO). A few years before that, they got nobody. Got to do better than that. If nothing else, establish a pipeline of some sort with High School coaches in Illinois.

What you are describing would be a good START. However, all that will do is get Illinois from mediocre to average, at best, assuming out of state recruiting remains unchanged. Also, keep in mind that, unlike seven other Big Ten schools where they are the only Big Ten team in the state, Illinois has another Big Ten school within the state to compete with for Illinois talent.
 
What you are describing would be a good START. However, all that will do is get Illinois from mediocre to average, at best, assuming out of state recruiting remains unchanged. Also, keep in mind that, unlike seven other Big Ten schools where they are the only Big Ten team in the state, Illinois has another Big Ten school within the state to compete with for Illinois talent.
Gotta start somewhere and starting at home would be logical and that other Big 10 Chicago team is exactly what I'm talking about. They get those in-state kids and compete.
 
Gotta start somewhere and starting at home would be logical and that other Big 10 Chicago team is exactly what I'm talking about. They get those in-state kids and compete.

Of those most recently enrolled freshmen, they have more three star recruits from outside of Illinois than from within.

Besides, I think Fitz is particularly gifted at getting the most out of average to above average talent. He is the John Holecek of the Big Ten. ;)
 
My first 7-8 wins reference was in response to mc140 who said Illinois could be a 7-8 win team each year if it could stop losing in state kids to universities in neighboring states. Of course, that's not possible. You can't keep every kid. That's why you need a high profile coach with a stellar reputation who can recruit talented kids from outside of Illinois.

I think if they won more battles than they lost for kids to Iowa, Wisconsin,Purdue and Missouri who live in this state the team would be in the 7-8 win range every year. Of course you have to find kids in other places but you are in a state with more talent than every other state that touches you. It is where you should start.
 
He turned down Texas. There is a better chance of LWE getting running clocked by Thornridge in football.

Actually
Illinois might be a better fit than Texas. Definitely less pressure and possibly a bigger upside. Urban knows the Big10 and I am sure he wouldn’t mind playing OSU. Don’t under value Urban’s gift to recruit. If he were to take the job U Of I would become legit. In state kids would come and just think about the Ohio kids he would bring.
 
Actually
Illinois might be a better fit than Texas. Definitely less pressure and possibly a bigger upside. Urban knows the Big10 and I am sure he wouldn’t mind playing OSU. Don’t under value Urban’s gift to recruit. If he were to take the job U Of I would become legit. In state kids would come and just think about the Ohio kids he would bring.

Urban said “no” to ILL back when he was at Utah. There’s a better chance the Bears win out this year and go to the Super Bowl than Urban ever going to Champaign.
 
Actually
Illinois might be a better fit than Texas. Definitely less pressure and possibly a bigger upside. Urban knows the Big10 and I am sure he wouldn’t mind playing OSU. Don’t under value Urban’s gift to recruit. If he were to take the job U Of I would become legit. In state kids would come and just think about the Ohio kids he would bring.

This is not a good troll job. Be better.
 
Bret Bielema has reported interest in the Illini after Lovie Smith's firing. He is the most high-profile coach in a crowded field that includes Arkansas defensive coordinator Barry Odom, Oklahoma defensive coordinator Alex Grinch, Buffalo coach Lance Leipold, Army coach Jeff Monken and Miami (Ohio) coach Chuck Martin. Bielema has shown interest in several college jobs since being fired at Arkansas in 2017. He is currently working in his third season as an NFL assistant.
 
I think if they won more battles than they lost for kids to Iowa, Wisconsin,Purdue and Missouri who live in this state the team would be in the 7-8 win range every year. Of course you have to find kids in other places but you are in a state with more talent than every other state that touches you. It is where you should start.
Maybe you are right about 7-8 wins within your hypothetical. However, that's not good enough to get to Indy or a respectable bowl game. Ever. And that's not good enough for me.

As to your contention about Illinois talent relative to states that border Illinois, that is more a factor of population size than of an abundance of top tier talent. Proclaiming that Illinois has more 3 star recruits than neighboring states is damning Illinois with faint praise.
 
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This is not a good troll job. Be better.

Whose trolling. Tell me what I said isn’t true. Urban would turn the program around faster than any other coach mentioned. Your a fool if you don’t think he’s the best candidate. I doubt Illinois would pay him what he’s worth but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be the best fit. It actually tells you that the football program isn’t the priority. It also tells the recruits.
 
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Maybe you are right about 7-8 wins within your hypothetical. However, that's not good enough to get to Indy or a respectable bowl game. Ever. And that's not good enough for me.

Be prepared to be disappointed the rest of your life then. This school tops out at maybe a BCS game every 5 -10 years. There is no pride, no real fan base and the game day experience blows. The only selling point for recruits is you can get into bars at 19. Just dont tell them about the Champaign cops who stand outside and give out tickets like candy for under 21 drinking in those same bars.
 
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Whose trolling. Tell me what I said isn’t true. Urban would turn the program around faster than any other coach mentioned. Your a fool if you don’t think he’s the best candidate. I doubt Illinois would pay him what he’s worth but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be the best fit. It actually tells you that the football program isn’t the priority. It also tells the recruits.

I would prefer Dabo or Saban as the next head coach both win more than Urban and both have shown the ability to stay in one place longer and if your going to build Illinois having a coach the will stay for 10 years would be important.
 
I'm not suggesting that Illinois will realistically become the next Ohio State. What I am suggesting is that the institution needs to take steps that aspire to greatness and that change the level of expectation for the program. Doing anything less will doom them to being average, at best.

How much of MC's football success is due to the MC community's expectations for the program? When I was in high school, MC was every school's preferred homecoming opponent. That changed, and they have experienced sustained extraordinary success ever since. Northwestern football was a laughing stock for decades. They turned it around, and now the expectation is higher.

The reason why there is no pride, no fan base, and the game day experience blows is because the end product in terms of wins and losses is mediocre and has been that way for a very long time. However, I remember the Mike White and John Mackovic era. There was pride. There were fans in the stands. There were two 10 win seasons. I'd settle for that in a heartbeat.

Just win, baby.
 
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I'm not suggesting that Illinois will realistically become the next Ohio State. What I am suggesting is that the institution needs to take steps that aspire to greatness and that change the level of expectation for the program. Doing anything less will doom them to being average, at best.

How much of MC's football success is due to the MC community's expectations for the program? When I was in high school, MC was every school's preferred homecoming opponent. That changed, and they have experienced sustained extraordinary success ever since. Northwestern football was a laughing stock for decades. They turned it around, and now the expectation is higher.

The reason why there is no pride, no fan base, and the game day experience blows is because the end product in terms of wins and losses is mediocre and has been that way for a very long time. However, I remember the Mike White and John Mackovic era. There was pride. There were fans in the stands. There were two 10 win seasons. I'd settle for that in a heartbeat.

Just win, baby.
You must be pretty old!
 
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