IHSA to vote on Districts Dec 3rd thru Dec 17th

[EdgyTim]

IHSA Legislative Commission Approves 11 Proposals For All-School Vote

The Illinois High School Association's Legislative Commission voted Wednesday (Nov. 28) to refer 11 proposals to amend the IHSA Constitution and By-laws to a vote of the general membership. The Commission voted after hearing feedback from member school personnel at 28 town meetings held around the state during the month of November.

The ballot containing the proposals will be available to each member school's official representative in the IHSA's online Schools Center, beginning Monday, December 3. The deadline to submit the ballot is midnight, Monday, December 17. The ballots will be tabulated and the results posted on Tuesday, December 18. Schools will be able to vote "no opinion" on any of the proposals. A simple majority of yes or no votes cast will determine whether each proposal passes.

Here is a summary of the proposals on the ballot:

• Proposal 1: Requires that the IHSA Executive Director make all eligibility decisions involving students transferring into any school district with ten or more high schools from a school outside the district's jurisdiction.
• Proposal 6: Allows the IHSA Executive Director to grant limited eligibility, which would not include varsity or state series competition, to international students who are not part of a qualified foreign exchange program.
• Proposal 9: Allows the IHSA Executive Director to grant limited eligibility, which would not include varsity or state series competition, to a student who transfers before the start of his or her sophomore year, and who would otherwise be ineligible.
• Proposal 10: Allows the IHSA Executive Director to grant permission for a diver to practice with an independent team during the sport season if his or her school lacks diving facilities.
• Proposal 11: Allows the IHSA Executive Director to approve an athlete's participation in an event conducted by the junior affiliate of a sport’s National Governing Body.
• Proposal 13: Allows grade school and junior high school students to participate with high school students in interscholastic agricultural events.
• Proposal 15: Moves the start of practice to Monday of Week 6 on the IHSA Standardized Calendar for the following sports: Boys & Girls Cross Country, Girls Tennis, Boys Soccer, Girls Volleyball, and Girls Swimming & Diving. (Note: This proposal was originally five separate Proposals, numbered 15 through 19.)
• Proposal 20: Allows non-varsity football games to be played on Thursday of Week 8 on the IHSA Standardized Calendar.
• Proposal 22: Allows schools that are members of the Illinois 8-Man Football Association to participate in a post-season playoff conducted by the I8FA.
• Proposal 23: Directs the IHSA to implement a football scheduling system for regular-season varsity games that would involve the following: (a) a 9-week regular season, (b) playoff classes determined in advance of the season; (c) schools from each class placed into 8 geographic groups by the IHSA Office to play a round-robin schedule; (d) the remaining games on the regular season schedule to be arranged by the individual schools at their discretion; (e) the top 4 teams in each of the 8 groups qualify for the playoffs, based on games played within each group. (NOTE: This proposal would take effect starting with the 2021 football season.)
• Proposal 25: Sets separate team and individual season limitations for Girls Wrestling.

The text of these proposals, as amended, is available in a PDF document.

The remaining proposals were rejected by the Legislative Commission. A total of 31 of the 35 commissioners attended the meeting, which was held at the IHSA Office in Bloomington. The meeting was rescheduled from Monday because of poor road conditions across a large part of the state.

 

[EdgyTim]

Per sources...schools are being asked to vote on the "philosophy" of districting and will not be provided any actual district guidelines.

 

[mchsalumni]

Per sources...schools are being asked to vote on the "philosophy" of districting and will not be provided any actual district guidelines.

Waste of ink without actual lines drawn in the sand. In the real world people get fired for bringing something like this up in a business setting.

 

[ClownBaby]

Waste of ink without actual lines drawn in the sand. In the real world people get fired for bringing something like this up in a business setting.

Lol.... that’s a great idea Tommy how will it work? Voting on a philosophy is the studipest thing I’ve heard.

 

[mc140]

The IHSA needs it passed to find out what is in it.

 

[Cross Bones]

I hate the idea of students not being eligible to play for anything but a disciplinary reason. Even worse, I hate that a student from abroad cannot participate in state series. They should change that. I know it opens Pandora's box, but I'm always in favor of letting a kid play.

 

[Relist8]

I said it a few weeks ago. I talked to a few A.D.'s that represented schools in Conferences that had one or two larger programs that they could not vote out so here is their chance....at least in football.

 

[PanthersWildcats86]

This is to take effect in 2021...There is no way to know how the classes will break down for 2021 - can you predict how many new CPS charter schools will be created, and how many will be 200 kids and how many 2000 kids? How many small schools will go 8-man football, co-op, or drop football completely? As the state population plummets more, which districts shrink faster?

Yes, this makes the question philosophical: do you want the IHSA to pick your district and 7 of your games for you, or do you want to keep your own conferences and full scheduling? Do you want to be stuck with the private school your conference disbanded to get rid of, and all the publics formed a new "publics only" conference (the McNamara elimination system)? Do you want to take the Rochester advantage away (being the 4A school in a decent 5A/6A round-robin conference)? Or the Crete-Monee advantage (being the 6A school in a iffy 5A conference)? Do you want out of your traditional rivalries with neighboring schools which may only be 40 kids different in enrollment, but 1A & 2A mixed? In 1A, since there are two NIUC football districts, they will likely not change a whole heck of a lot...

I can keep going, but again, it is the philosophical question of do you want to keep scheduling for yourself (conference or independent), or have the IHSA pick 7 games for you...

 

[superac777]

Start the same week as Indiana & everyone gets in

 

[cornerrat]

All.... If the district proposal passes as it applies to SHG I see positives and negatives. Steve Soucie did a few months back a breakdown of possible districts. At that time he had SHG in 6A. Now assuming the Cyclones in 2021 would be 5A playing mostly central and south teams in Illinois I see a so so schedule. What I do like about the proposal is the non con games. SHG at the moment plays in a closed conference. Forget rivalries. For the two non con games (especially since they will not count against your district seeding in postseason play) I would be looking for possible southern bracket playoff teams. It would be wonderful to play say JCA, Highland or Hillcrest. And if you can't get those guys I miss the good old days playing the Broncos. The possibilities are endless and regardless of who travels I could see some healthy gate receipts. Ratsy

 

[Snetsrak61]

Would the SF die with districts? You'd think they would try to keep districts as stable as possible which you can't do if the mid size privates keep bumping around the classes.

 

[mchsalumni]

Would the SF die with districts? You'd think they would try to keep districts as stable as possible which you can't do if the mid size privates keep bumping around the classes.

This is an interesting angle. Do you permanently destroy 5A and 6A for publics by freezing the classes? 5A is already a disaster and 6A would likely be another private dominated class.

What wave would follow?

 

[King MJ]

One technical question --

Do schools without football teams or without playoff eligible football teams (eg. CPS) get to vote on the football measures?

 

[cornerrat]

All... I would assume the SF stays in place. If I recall the early language in the proposal stated that a revaluation of a school could happen if said school is not a proper fit after two years. That could mean just about anything. Ratsy

 

[Cross Bones]

All... I would assume the SF stays in place. If I recall the early language in the proposal stated that a revaluation of a school could happen if said school is not a proper fit after two years. That could mean just about anything. Ratsy

I don't know how it could without placing the SF'd school into a district within that class.

 

[crusader_of_90]

• Proposal 13: Allows grade school and junior high school students to participate with high school students ininterscholastic agricultural events.

This is dangerous.

 

[mc140]

One technical question --

Do schools without football teams or without playoff eligible football teams (eg. CPS) get to vote on the football measures?

Yes.

 

[mchsalumni]

• Proposal 13: Allows grade school and junior high school students to participate with high school students ininterscholastic agricultural events.

This is dangerous.

Hydroponics for 5th graders. Seems legit.

 

[superac777]

In Texas


Yes.

All CPS teams will be eligible

 

[ramblinman]

I like the district concept, but I think the proposal is poorly thought out and poorly constructed.

First of all, what is the prescribed size of a district? I thought I had heard eight per district, but that's not in the proposal. As it is worded, there are to be eight districts per class. That certainly makes for nice neat playoff brackets, but the only time it will work with 8 classes is if there are exactly 512 schools playing 11 man football. Anything above or below that number is going to result in districts of different sizes, and how does that work in terms of scheduling?

With the number of football playing schools we have now, there will absolutely have to be some districts with 9 teams. How is that going to be determined, and what assurances do the 7A and 8A schools have that they won't have even more miles to travel over the course of a regular season because the IHSA created 9 team districts with 8A schools from the far SW portion of the state and the far SW suburbs of Chicago?

Secondly, what happens when the number of football playing schools drops to below 512? With schools dropping football and choosing the co-op and 8-man alternatives, I believe we are on a trajectory for that to happen within the next several years.

 

[Snetsrak61]

I like the district concept, but I think the proposal is poorly thought out and poorly constructed.

First of all, what is the prescribed size of a district? I thought I had heard eight per district, but that's not in the proposal. As it is worded, there are to be eight districts per class. That certainly makes for nice neat playoff brackets, but the only time it will work with 8 classes is if there are exactly 512 schools playing 11 man football. Anything above or below that number is going to result in districts of different sizes, and how does that work in terms of scheduling?

With the number of football playing schools we have now, there will absolutely have to be some districts with 9 teams. How is that going to be determined, and what assurances do the 7A and 8A schools have that they won't have even more miles to travel over the course of a regular season because the IHSA created 9 team districts with 8A schools from the far SW portion of the state and the far SW suburbs of Chicago?

Secondly, what happens when the number of football playing schools drops to below 512? With schools dropping football and choosing the co-op and 8-man alternatives, I believe we are on a trajectory for that to happen within the next several years.

Definitely good questions. Unless the IHSA is going to schedule out of state opponents, what other option is there than some teams getting byes and not playing a full season?

Although I suppose that with the growing health safety concerns.of football, a mandated bye week could pick up support and then it's just a feature of the schedule.

Edit-
Not sure of the full text, but based on the wording above it doesn't say anything about concurrent scheduling, so I guess those other 2 games could happen at any time in the season, not necessarily weeks 1 and 2. Then the IHSA doesn't have to worry about imbalanced districts.

 

[King MJ]

for me, the biggest issues are

1) How do you manage the non-playoff eligible teams?
2) What is the tiebreaker process within district since there are no playoff points?
3) How can you minimize blowouts? In almost every proposal out there, I see many games where a realistic point spread would be 60 points or more. I see this as a player safety issue. If districts are approved I would expect to see a significant amounts of forfeits.
4) How do you prevent weeks 1 and 2 from turning into meaningless exhibitions

Also, I think the 8-man vote will have an impact here too. I expect to see many teams drop down to 8-man for various reasons and this could take the magic number well below 512.

Without addressing competitive concerns, I see this as a massive problem. Even in Texas where districts have lived the longest, 77-0 regular season blowouts are incredibly common, especially at the lower levels.

 

[King MJ]

I like the district concept, but I think the proposal is poorly thought out and poorly constructed.

First of all, what is the prescribed size of a district? I thought I had heard eight per district, but that's not in the proposal. As it is worded, there are to be eight districts per class. That certainly makes for nice neat playoff brackets, but the only time it will work with 8 classes is if there are exactly 512 schools playing 11 man football. Anything above or below that number is going to result in districts of different sizes, and how does that work in terms of scheduling?

With the number of football playing schools we have now, there will absolutely have to be some districts with 9 teams. How is that going to be determined, and what assurances do the 7A and 8A schools have that they won't have even more miles to travel over the course of a regular season because the IHSA created 9 team districts with 8A schools from the far SW portion of the state and the far SW suburbs of Chicago?

Secondly, what happens when the number of football playing schools drops to below 512? With schools dropping football and choosing the co-op and 8-man alternatives, I believe we are on a trajectory for that to happen within the next several years.

Are you concerned that not allowing teams to self-select comparable competition will create competition and safety issues.

Specifically for LA, under almost every proposed scheme, the Ramblers would likely play 2-4 public league schools, most of whom would be mercied by the middle of the 2nd quarter. Who benefits from that?

 

[ramblinman]

Are you concerned that not allowing teams to self-select comparable competition will create competition and safety issues.

Specifically for LA, under almost every proposed scheme, the Ramblers would likely play 2-4 public league schools, most of whom would be mercied by the middle of the 2nd quarter. Who benefits from that?

I'm generally in favor of the district concept; I just think it needs to be defined and proposed better.

I share your concern for blowouts, which has long been a hot topic for me.

As for the Ramblers, all depends on how the districts are drawn. This is what Steve Soucie threw out there last May as a possible district that included Loyola: Chicago (Lane), Chicago (Taft), Evanston, Glenview (Glenbrook South), Oak Park (River Forest), Park Ridge (Maine South), Skokie (Niles West), Wilmette (Loyola), Winnetka (New Trier).

Frankly, that looks pretty interesting to me. It is a district of nine schools, which I think is fine. Not wild about the CPL schools and Niles West, but I like the rest. Nine schools leaves room for a non-district game against a former CCL rival like MC or BR or another similarly competitive public school. Not factoring non-district games in qualifying for the playoffs would encourage top tier schools to seek each other out for high profile non-district games.

If, however, a school like Leyden were included instead of OPRF, then I'm liking it less. Or if the multiplier was ever triggered for non-boundaried schools like Von Steuben, Prosser, or Whitney Young, and Loyola's district boundaries get redrawn to include a bunch of CPL schools, then I'm not liking it at all.

Of course, the districts could also be drawn in such a way that no CPL schools are in Loyola's district. I could see an 8A district that was bounded by the WI border to the north, the lake to the east, route 83 to the west and Dempster Street to the south. Such a district would include Z-B, Waukegan, Warren, Stevenson, New Trier, Glenbrook South, Loyola, Evanston and Notre Dame. I like that one, too.

Again, it's all about how the district lines are drawn.

 

[King MJ]

I'm generally in favor of the district concept; I just think it needs to be defined and proposed better.

I share your concern for blowouts, which has long been a hot topic for me.

As for the Ramblers, all depends on how the districts are drawn. This is what Steve Soucie threw out there last May as a possible district that included Loyola: Chicago (Lane), Chicago (Taft), Evanston, Glenview (Glenbrook South), Oak Park (River Forest), Park Ridge (Maine South), Skokie (Niles West), Wilmette (Loyola), Winnetka (New Trier).

Frankly, that looks pretty interesting to me. It is a district of nine schools, which I think is fine. Not wild about the CPL schools and Niles West, but I like the rest. Nine schools leaves room for a non-district game against a former CCL rival like MC or BR or another similarly competitive public school. Not factoring non-district games in qualifying for the playoffs would encourage top tier schools to seek each other out for high profile non-district games.

If, however, a school like Leyden were included instead of OPRF, then I'm liking it less. Or if the multiplier was ever triggered for non-boundaried schools like Von Steuben, Prosser, or Whitney Young, and Loyola's district boundaries get redrawn to include a bunch of CPL schools, then I'm not liking it at all.

Of course, the districts could also be drawn in such a way that no CPL schools are in Loyola's district. I could see an 8A district that was bounded by the WI border to the north, the lake to the east, route 83 to the west and Dempster Street to the south. Such a district would include Z-B, Waukegan, Warren, Stevenson, New Trier, Glenbrook South, Loyola, Evanston and Notre Dame. I like that one, too.

Again, it's all about how the district lines are drawn.

I think we agree more than we don't. If you look at Texas as the model, a majority of their district are 6 or 7 teams. (A few exceptions in large schools). This means 5 or 6 district games as part of a 10 game regular season.

Their setup keeps core geographies together so not all districts are the same size. For reference, here are the districts for texas 6a. I think common sense could prevail here to keep more rivals together. This also guarantees that certain schools like Permian and Midland Lee will never be broken up.

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/alignments/6AFBEnrollment.pdf



Also if you look at the larger districts. With the exception of teams trying to win a mythical national title, the 2 or 3 non-conference games are genuinely glorified exhibitions. If we go to the 8 team district model, I would anticipate this occuring more often than not.

 

[ramblinman]

I think we agree more than we don't. If you look at Texas as the model, a majority of their district are 6 or 7 teams. (A few exceptions in large schools). This means 5 or 6 district games as part of a 10 game regular season.

Their setup keeps core geographies together so not all districts are the same size. For reference, here are the districts for texas 6a. I think common sense could prevail here to keep more rivals together. This also guarantees that certain schools like Permian and Midland Lee will never be broken up.

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/alignments/6AFBEnrollment.pdf



Also if you look at the larger districts. With the exception of teams trying to win a mythical national title, the 2 or 3 non-conference games are genuinely glorified exhibitions. If we go to the 8 team district model, I would anticipate this occuring more often than not.

Not sure I like the TX model all that much. In the doc you linked, there are a couple of districts of six schools and a bunch of nine. If the top four teams in each district make the playoffs there (as is proposed by the IHSA), then don't those schools in the larger districts have a legitimate beef that it is easier for teams in the districts of six schools to qualify for the playoffs than it is for those teams in the nine school districts?

 

[King MJ]

Not sure I like the TX model all that much. In the doc you linked, there are a couple of districts of six schools and a bunch of nine. If the top four teams in each district make the playoffs there (as is proposed by the IHSA), then don't those schools in the larger districts have a legitimate beef that it is easier for teams in the districts of six schools to qualify for the playoffs than it is for those teams in the nine school districts?

No. 6-team districts only get 2 teams as a rule. Larger districts will get more teams. Districts are part of broader regions who make these decisions.

 

[ramblinman]

No. 6-team districts only get 2 teams as a rule. Larger districts will get more teams. Districts are part of broader regions who make these decisions.

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder how that plays out from a bracket perspective when smaller districts are pitted against districts with more qualifiers.

 

[sac'em]

We should not be modeling how football is done in Texas. This would be apples to oranges.

 

[King MJ]

Hmmm...interesting. I wonder how that plays out from a bracket perspective when smaller districts are pitted against districts with more qualifiers.

Whats interesting is that the smallest districts tend to be more suburban and rural and generally have better quality, while the largest districts are more urban and tend to have lowest quality top to bottom.

Like Illinois, its less of an issue in 6A where almost all schools are in decent sized cities, but a big one for smaller rural schools

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

Is the plan to realign the districts every 4 years or so? This seems to make the most sense, along with eliminating conferences entirely and going to every sport in the same district format. Football playoffs would be set with the top 4 district placers having a playoff and the district winner coming out to meet another district winner. This eliminates long drives and should eliminate huge mismatches in the first couple of rounds of the playoffs. Set a minimum/max for each district and know that not all will be equal. Really doesn't matter if you are taking the top 4 from each district into the district playoffs.

 

[epicbret]

Would Nazareth have a week one and two opponent? If so I'm game.

 

[markmacaluso]

Would Nazareth have a week one and two opponent? If so I'm game.

LMAO....Is that a calzone?

 

[JCHillmen]

Is the plan to realign the districts every 4 years or so? This seems to make the most sense, along with eliminating conferences entirely and going to every sport in the same district format. Football playoffs would be set with the top 4 district placers having a playoff and the district winner coming out to meet another district winner. This eliminates long drives and should eliminate huge mismatches in the first couple of rounds of the playoffs. Set a minimum/max for each district and know that not all will be equal. Really doesn't matter if you are taking the top 4 from each district into the district playoffs.

Dont think other sports would be subject to districts. Really they couldn't because they all have fewer classes and all other sports already have predetermined class cutoffs before season starts so districts dont really do much for other sports.

And I believe the proposal is to have the districts play different districts on playoffs. You wouldn't face a team from your own district until the quarterfinals at the earliest.

All around a bad idea. It certainly would have the same number of playoff blowouts. But now there will be more regular season blowouts too and the have nots who are real bad will probably just forfeit to the haves. St rita may get s tough district game against MC, win in 3 blowouts, and then have 3 teams choose to not play them, opting for a forfeit over a 65 point loss.

 

[epicbret]

LMAO....Is that a calzone?

A Scudiero's Easter Calzone to be correct...

 

[ramblinman]

Is the plan to realign the districts every 4 years or so? This seems to make the most sense, along with eliminating conferences entirely and going to every sport in the same district format. Football playoffs would be set with the top 4 district placers having a playoff and the district winner coming out to meet another district winner. This eliminates long drives and should eliminate huge mismatches in the first couple of rounds of the playoffs. Set a minimum/max for each district and know that not all will be equal. Really doesn't matter if you are taking the top 4 from each district into the district playoffs.

Due to enrollment fluctuations, you could find districts being realigned far more frequently than every four years. If a district has schools at the very low and high ends of the enrollment class, I think it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be at least one new school in that district year in and year out.

I don't see going to a district format for other sports because, in some respects, the parts of the district format already exist in other sports, except they are called regions and sections.

Nor do I see the IHSA scheduling opponents in the other sports like they can in football. Football games are always on Friday or Saturday for nine straight weekends, so the scheduling is easy because it is limited to those specific weekends. In other sports, it simply would not be realistic to think that the IHSA could schedule games in all sports for all schools. There would be too many calendar conflicts to manage.

 

[GhostOfTheGhhost]

Other states set districts every 3 or 4 years based on enrollment, so there would be no need to redo them every year. Also, the districts would take the place of conferences. The IHSA wouldn't need to do any regular season scheduling, they would simply pick up in the post season like they do already. In the district format, schools would always be competing with similarly sized schools. Eliminates conference jumping and conference disparities.

 

[ramblinman]

Other states set districts every 3 or 4 years based on enrollment, so there would be no need to redo them every year. Also, the districts would take the place of conferences. The IHSA wouldn't need to do any regular season scheduling, they would simply pick up in the post season like they do already. In the district format, schools would always be competing with similarly sized schools. Eliminates conference jumping and conference disparities.

Assume a school is on an upward enrollment trend, and they are classified as 7A in the first year of districts, but their enrollment grows to the point where they would be 8A in the second year. Are you saying that the school would remain in a 7A district until some scheduled realignment takes place two or three more years down the road? I could see where that would cause great consternation among the smaller schools in that district, especially if that 8A sized school were to qualify for the playoffs year in and year out, and the smaller schools were not qualifying.

 

[corey90]

We should not be modeling how football is done in Texas. This would be apples to oranges.

Why? What is so different?
If not Texas why not OHSAA in Ohio?

I see all the posts and really no one agrees from post to post. No matter what the IHSA does or doesn’t do the debate and complaints will continue because you won’t make everyone happy.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Other states set districts every 3 or 4 years based on enrollment, so there would be no need to redo them every year. Also, the districts would take the place of conferences. The IHSA wouldn't need to do any regular season scheduling, they would simply pick up in the post season like they do already. In the district format, schools would always be competing with similarly sized schools. Eliminates conference jumping and conference disparities.

I think most states “re-district” every two years. And this with the new SF rule keeping you locked into a class for 2 years and evaluated on a 2 year basis it would fit re-districting perfectly. I’m sure this is no coincidence...