IHSA membership votes for Football District Schedule

[The Ripper CGB]

I could see this helping the larger CPL schools. 8A will only have Taft, Lane, Simeon, and Curie. Those programs will be forced to get stronger or die. Hopefully they get stronger.

It will be more challenging down the line for 5A programs that are really bad and don't have much resources to practice or get more players.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

To clarify, again, trying to follow along, Naz's enrollment is 760 and JCA is 700. Naz played in 7a because they were multiplied up due to being really good. So they're not bigger (by much), but better.

This is besides the point. I'm not here to argue Naz vs. JCA. I'm saying public schools should have the choice of who and where they want to play, as should private schools.

I answered the first part in my prior reply. Then you added on. If you let people choose their opponents to qualify for the playoffs then you are basically letting the teams who are best at scheduling and convincing weak opponents to play them to be the qualifiers. Why should you get to choose your opponents for qualification? You don’t get to choose your classification come playoff time. Play people in your class to qualify for your classes playoff is all I’m saying.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Size is raw number. Can't have your cake and eat it too. When the raw numbers are that close, they're that close. So it should count, unless the other team is really really good, then it shouldn't count?

My point that you are distorting is that when I say size I’m talking CLASSIFICATION. 8a should qualify by playing 8a. 7a should qualify by playing 7a. 1a should qualify by playing 1a.

 

[TonPlugZeroLock]

My point that you are distorting is that when I say size I’m talking CLASSIFICATION. 8a should qualify by playing 8a. 7a should qualify by playing 7a. 1a should qualify by playing 1a.

Right so if your enrollment is the same, you should play schools with similar enrollments. We are in agreement on this.

I feel like we've veered off course quite a bit. My beef with districts is that people voted before anyone got a chance to see what it looked like and some schools are going to be stuck getting their heads kicked in with out a say in the matter based strictly on enrollment. Other schools aren't going to have a choice but to schedule good Non Cons because their district is brutal. Those games don't count. That goes for public and private. It just seemed like it wasn't broke, and we fixed it.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Right so if your enrollment is the same, you should play schools with similar enrollments. We are in agreement on this.

I feel like we've veered off course quite a bit. My beef with districts is that people voted before anyone got a chance to see what it looked like and some schools are going to be stuck getting their heads kicked in with out a say in the matter based strictly on enrollment. Other schools aren't going to have a choice but to schedule good Non Cons because their district is brutal. Those games don't count. That goes for public and private. It just seemed like it wasn't broke, and we fixed it.

I had a long back and forth with another guy about why seeing the districts before voting really is pointless since the districts aren’t static but evolve every 2 seasons. So while you may love the district you see the first time around you may hate it in 2 year or vice versa. Either you are okay with the “system” of districts or you’re not.

 

[TonPlugZeroLock]

I had a long back and forth with another guy about why seeing the districts before voting really is pointless since the districts aren’t static but evolve every 2 seasons. So while you may love the district you see the first time around you may hate it in 2 year or vice versa. Either you are okay with the “system” of districts or you’re not.

I agree with you on that. Whatever my feelings are, its done and we voted. Foolish or not, this is where we're at. No use crying over spilled milk. Godspeed to those same size enrollment schools that will be perennial bottom 4 guys because they can not pick and choose some winnable games.

 

[Gene K.]

Reviewing all the previous posts, it seems that the public schools are really the impetus behind this. Call me a traditionalist or whatever but the CCL and ESCC have done fine with their scheduling and this district thing is going to eliminate traditional rivalries as well as have high school kids traveling all over the state to play a football game. In some cases that will be a 3-4 hour trip on a Friday night as well. Also IMO, the powerhouse Catholic Schools playing cup cake CPS public schools in their district is a travesty and not reflective of what I thought high school football was all about. Can't see myself traveling into the city to watch my team demolish a lesser opponent several times a season. Then to see a good game I would have to travel to the far western part of the state when my team is playing away. I think not. IMO, the CCL, ESCC and other private schools need to break off from the IHSA due to this ridiculous district idea.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

I had a long back and forth with another guy about why seeing the districts before voting really is pointless since the districts aren’t static but evolve every 2 seasons. So while you may love the district you see the first time around you may hate it in 2 year or vice versa. Either you are okay with the “system” of districts or you’re not.

And the projections everyone has been seeing are tainted by lacking the change in multiplier rule which will have many more private’s in lower classes now. Plus I’m sure they were drawn up with strict geographic proximity in mind. Districts don’t have to be THEE closest, just close. While they may start out strict geographically the first cycle as a baseline im sure that thereafter there will be some flexibility in their districting. I showed an example of a Texas district which started a new 2 year cycle this season and if you compare the district of the team I used from last year to this year they only have one common opponent, everyone else in the district is a new opponent. This can be due to enrollment changes but also mapping things differently. Also add in the rules about multiplying and unmultiolying private’s in Illinois and its going to cause even more fluctuation.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Reviewing all the previous posts, it seems that the public schools are really the impetus behind this. Call me a traditionalist or whatever but the CCL and ESCC have done fine with their scheduling and this district thing is going to eliminate traditional rivalries as well as have high school kids traveling all over the state to play a football game. In some cases that will be a 3-4 hour trip on a Friday night as well. Also IMO, the powerhouse Catholic Schools playing cup cake CPS public schools in their district is a travesty and not reflective of what I thought high school football was all about. Can't see myself traveling into the city to watch my team demolish a lesser opponent several times a season. Then to see a good game I would have to travel to the far western part of the state when my team is playing away. I think not. IMO, the CCL, ESCC and other private schools need to break off from the IHSA due to this ridiculous district idea.

Perhaps we should save the divorce until after we find out the districts and not based off of assumption. The biggest problem with this whole thing is the 2 year waiting period will be dreadful. They needed to either wait and vote right after the 2020 season or implement this next year. They are allowing for way too much speculation and dread to occur that may all be unwarranted or at least overblown.

 

[pjjp]

What happens if you don’t like your district.... that’s why they needed districts! Why should you need to or get to “like” your district? And choose your own destiny??? Again, that sounds like a person who is okay with a 7a school playing st joes and Leo and 2 cps in non-conference and one other win to make the 7a playoffs! How is that okay while a team in a conference of equals is left out of the playoffs? If you are 6a and can’t make the playoffs playing 6a peers you don’t deserve to be in the 6a playoffs! I have found only 2 valid reasons to be against districts: the fan who loves some traditions of their confernce and wants to keep that (fine I can live with that) and the other is the one who knows their team is a “pretender” and gets in the playoffs every year by playing smaller or lesser opponents and is scared that they will be exposed when playing peers in district. (Not okay with that)

Are you for real? It's called choice. Whether it's schools or individuals, institutions/people make decisions to further their own self-interests. I don't want "big brother" (the IHSA) determining my regular season schedule. If I'm part of the decision-making team at my school, I'd prefer having the authority to chose my conference.

And before you reply with the "I'm looking for lesser opponents to enhance my playoff chances" argument, the school I follow (JCA) will greatly enhance their chances of making the playoffs under just about any current district scenario. They will no longer be playing the Marists, Benets, ND's etc., who are 2 or 3 classes above them.

 

[DHS2018]

Reviewing all the previous posts, it seems that the public schools are really the impetus behind this. Call me a traditionalist or whatever but the CCL and ESCC have done fine with their scheduling and this district thing is going to eliminate traditional rivalries as well as have high school kids traveling all over the state to play a football game. In some cases that will be a 3-4 hour trip on a Friday night as well. Also IMO, the powerhouse Catholic Schools playing cup cake CPS public schools in their district is a travesty and not reflective of what I thought high school football was all about. Can't see myself traveling into the city to watch my team demolish a lesser opponent several times a season. Then to see a good game I would have to travel to the far western part of the state when my team is playing away. I think not. IMO, the CCL, ESCC and other private schools need to break off from the IHSA due to this ridiculous district idea.

And kill their other sports?

 

[Gene K.]

Are you for real? It's called choice. Whether it's schools or individuals, institutions/people make decisions to further their own self-interests.

PJJP: Choice in Illinois is a bad word when it involves where your child attends a school. But choice is a great word in Illinois when it come to aborting a child.
See, its just a matter of perspective and whose which choice your for.

 

[Cross Bones]

What happens if you don’t like your district.... that’s why they needed districts! Why should you need to or get to “like” your district? And choose your own destiny??? Again, that sounds like a person who is okay with a 7a school playing st joes and Leo and 2 cps in non-conference and one other win to make the 7a playoffs! How is that okay while a team in a conference of equals is left out of the playoffs? If you are 6a and can’t make the playoffs playing 6a peers you don’t deserve to be in the 6a playoffs! I have found only 2 valid reasons to be against districts: the fan who loves some traditions of their confernce and wants to keep that (fine I can live with that) and the other is the one who knows their team is a “pretender” and gets in the playoffs every year by playing smaller or lesser opponents and is scared that they will be exposed when playing peers in district. (Not okay with that)

While I generally agree with what you're saying on this topic I do feel like these districts can crush a program when it is trying to build. Let's look at Joliet Central for example, historically bad in the SWSC, but was able to move to the SWP and breath life into football without playing tiny or depressed programs. Sometimes you just need the boot off your neck for a little bit. Now let's say Joliet Central ends up in a district where they don't have those 3 teams all the progress may be lost.

That isn't good for anyone.

I think that movement will allow some schools to gather some momentum.

 

[DHS2018]

PJJP: Choice in Illinois is a bad word when it involves where your child attends a school. But choice is a great word in Illinois when it come to aborting a child.
See, its just a matter of perspective and whose which choice your for.

A child in Illinois can attend anyone school they choose, with a few exceptions because of academics.

 

[pjjp]

While I generally agree with what you're saying on this topic I do feel like these districts can crush a program when it is trying to build. Let's look at Joliet Central for example, historically bad in the SWSC, but was able to move to the SWP and breath life into football without playing tiny or depressed programs. Sometimes you just need the boot off your neck for a little bit. Now let's say Joliet Central ends up in a district where they don't have those 3 teams all the progress may be lost.

That isn't good for anyone.

I think that movement will allow some schools to gather some momentum.

Agreed. There are numerous examples of that. How about West Aurora? They seem to be on the rise. Under the district setup, they will very likely be in a district with the 3 Valleys and the 2 Napervilles. They left the DVC to avoid being overmatched. Now, big brother is telling them they will be playing those same schools they changed conferences to avoid to give themselves a better chance of building a football program.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

Are you for real? It's called choice. Whether it's schools or individuals, institutions/people make decisions to further their own self-interests. I don't want "big brother" (the IHSA) determining my regular season schedule. If I'm part of the decision-making team at my school, I'd prefer having the authority to chose my conference.

And before you reply with the "I'm looking for lesser opponents to enhance my playoff chances" argument, the school I follow (JCA) will greatly enhance their chances of making the playoffs under just about any current district scenario. They will no longer be playing the Marists, Benets, ND's etc., who are 2 or 3 classes above them.

First I’m a freedom and liberty loving nra supporting conservative who loves capitalism and free markets so before you brand me a socialist let’s get that straight. BUT this is not school choice or vouchers or any of that... you are playing for the ihsa championship in the ihsa playoffs so the qualification process for this should be controlled by guess who... the ihsa. If you don’t like that be a nomadic travelling independent like IMG. Let’s not make this some esoteric nonsense about freedom. The ncaa doesn’t let you become bowl eligible by beating d2 colleges. You don’t qualify for the D2 playoffs beating d3 colleges, nfl teams don’t make the playoffs beating college teams. The ihsa can and should dictate how you qualify for their playoffs. They already do, they are just making a change to that process.

 

[Gene K.]

I don't believe that is not true unless you are talking about private schools. I was talking about vouchers to allow a parent to send the child to a private school for a better education than they can get at a public school, especially in Chicago. Some of those kids and their parents would relish the opportunity to get a better education within a more structured environment than they are getting at their current public high school.

 

[pjjp]

The ncaa doesn’t let you become bowl eligible by beating d2 colleges. You don’t qualify for the D2 playoffs beating d3 colleges, nfl teams don’t make the playoffs beating college teams. The ihsa can and should dictate how you qualify for their playoffs. They already do, they are just making a change to that process.

The NCAA does allow you to chose your conference, though. They don't dictate who you play to become bowl-eligible in the regular season. I've seen the IHSA's handiwork over the years. Let's just say.....I'm not impressed. I don't want them exerting any more influence than necessary over their member schools. Districts give them more authority/influence.

 

[superac777]

Great point i saw on twitter on how big of a detriment this will be to CPS. The changing divisions will be no longer.

And all CPS teams will have a shot at the playoffs no more of this B.S.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

The NCAA does allow you to chose your conference, though. They don't dictate who you play to become bowl-eligible in the regular season. I've seen the IHSA's handiwork over the years. Let's just say.....I'm not impressed. I don't want them exerting any more influence than necessary over their member schools. Districts give them more authority/influence.

That’s because everyone in a college conference is in the same classification! Please reply with logical responses.

 

[No Bias---Just Reality]

I don't believe that is not true unless you are talking about private schools. I was talking about vouchers to allow a parent to send the child to a private school for a better education than they can get at a public school, especially in Chicago. Some of those kids and their parents would relish the opportunity to get a better education within a more structured environment than they are getting at their current public high school.

I’m a private school guy. I’m pro voucher to tax payers not using the public school system. I was trying to reply to the guy who wanted to make this a freedom versus big brother issue. You play in the big brothers playoffs and want his hardware you qualify under his rules... that’s all I was saying. Let’s not take this thread into a tangent about school choice.

 

[pjjp]

That’s because everyone in a college conference is in the same classification! Please reply with logical responses.

Oh okay. I see I've wasted enough time on you.

 

[RockSoup]

Let’s remember, the vote was a whopping 17 vote margin, 324-307, 69 no opinion, and 118 didn’t bother to vote (numbers from Disabato’s column), hardly a mandate but an IHSA rule nonetheless. Actually if you tally the numbers, 39.6% of the schools voted yes for districts.

That vote tells me there were more than just private schools against it.

Since the IHSA looks at and votes on a number of proposals each year, my hope is that one of the member schools next year proposes to nullify this year’s passage. With the vote tallies so close, and over 60% not explicitly pro districting, maybe there can be continued talks on such a large landscape change.

 

[Gene K.]

Hope so Rock! looking at the numbers of who voted and who didn't vote for this proposal without knowing all the particulars on what constitutes a district, who is in the district, etc. shows me maybe many of these school administrators aren't as sharp as they think they are and/or not worth the money they are being paid to do their job.

 

[TonPlugZeroLock]

I had to go teach, seems like many people see my point. Good news.

 

[Voodoo Tatum 21]

Let’s remember, the vote was a whopping 17 vote margin, 324-307, 69 no opinion, and 118 didn’t bother to vote (numbers from Disabato’s column), hardly a mandate but an IHSA rule nonetheless. Actually if you tally the numbers, 39.6% of the schools voted yes for districts.

That vote tells me there were more than just private schools against it.

Since the IHSA looks at and votes on a number of proposals each year, my hope is that one of the member schools next year proposes to nullify this year’s passage. With the vote tallies so close, and over 60% not explicitly pro districting, maybe there can be continued talks on such a large landscape change.

That’s a very interesting point Rock! Someone could sponsor a resolution/rule to revert back to conferences since this does not go into effect for a couple YEARS. That said Doesn’t it have to get out of committe or something before being put up for an all school vote? Anyone know that process? It doesn’t look like all proposals make it to a full vote so there is some hurdle proposals have to pass before being put up for a full vote.

 

[Bowie50]

I’d bet the Catholics pull out and form their own association.

I hope they do...we don't need public league schools.

 

[Quags57]

Since this is a hot button topic, I would love to see the IHSA release who voted for what.

Let's take all the speculation out of this.

 

[ClownBaby]

Since this is a hot button topic, I would love to see the IHSA release who voted for what.

Let's take all the speculation out of this.

It’s interesting that you say that in the Daily Herald they alluded to split between football coaches and administrators on how to vote I would love to see how schools voted.

 

[ClownBaby]

I’d bet the Catholics pull out and form their own association.

I see this sentiment a lot around here and it gets a lot of likes on this board but serious question if this were to happen how does this benefit girls sports or smaller boys sports?

Are the private school administrations going to tell these kids parents who are paying $10k a year they are making a decsion in the best interests of the football program not their kid? I think it would cause a lot of internal problems.

 

[Gene K.]

The private schools don't have a problem scheduling other private schools for the other sports. Don't know about downstate but in the Chicagoland area there are a ton of schools available to play!

 

[ramblinman]

I see this sentiment a lot around here and it gets a lot of likes on this board but serious question if this were to happen how does this benefit girls sports or smaller boys sports?

Are the private school administrations going to tell these kids parents who are paying $10k a year they are making a decsion in the best interests of the football program not their kid? I think it would cause a lot of internal problems.

The conspiracy theorist in me has already thought that this proposal was dreamed up by public schools that either want CCL/ESCC schools to leave on their own or want public schools to rise up and push them out.

Why?

Instead of CCL/ESCC schools being the bad guys because we knock public schools out of the playoffs with some regularity, we are now going to be even badder guys because we are going to keep public schools from qualifying in the first place, and THEN knock out the few that will qualify. How? Because we are now mixed with them in similarly sized districts instead of having our own conferences where we keep each other from qualifying.

The result will be whining the likes of which we've never witnessed. And, we all know the IHSA historical (hysterical?) response when public schools whine.

 

[RockSoup]

Smaller amount of teams but high school hockey functions very well without IHSA oversight.

 

[DHS2018]

The NCAA does allow you to chose your conference, though. They don't dictate who you play to become bowl-eligible in the regular season. I've seen the IHSA's handiwork over the years. Let's just say.....I'm not impressed. I don't want them exerting any more influence than necessary over their member schools. Districts give them more authority/influence.

You realize it was the member schools that voted for this, correct?

 

[RockSoup]

You realize it was the member schools that voted for this, correct?

Yes. All 39.6% of them voted yes for districts

 

[rambler8155]

time for the CCL to leave the IHSA...........simple as that...

 

[DHS2018]

Yes. All 39.6% of them voted yes for districts

And about 37% voted no?

What many here are saying is like saying the US Government is dumb for having Trump be the President..

 

[DHS2018]

time for the CCL to leave the IHSA...........simple as that...

And they will not because they know the negative impact on football and their other sports

 

[IgorStL]

And about 37% voted no?

What many here are saying is like saying the US Government is dumb for having Trump be the President..

Right, but the apparent fact that non-football-playing schools voted on how football works from now on is akin to having non-citizens voting...

 

[DeanOfSelection]

Right, but the apparent fact that non-football-playing schools voted on how football works from now on is akin to having non-citizens voting...

We have to start brainstorming on ideas. A little before my time but how did the CCL do playoffs prior to '74? Seeds, amount of games etc