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Homewood-Flossmoor

LWE's non conf opponents were a combined 17-20. ESL easily provides a much tougher test than that. One poster stated earlier ESL would help prepare them for HF. LWE captains are on record as saying HF was their toughest opponent this season. Seems to me the conf championship comes down to the LWE/HF game most years. Some years, The Brook is in the mix.
 
If I must connect the dots, so be it. I just think ESL is not a team East happens to be tooled for. LWE appears largely built for best success non-con, conference and playoffs for what they historically face in 8A programs over the years.

It’s your opinion and I totally disagree. The baloney your saying about East could easily apply to ESL or any other team. East faced 3 teams this year that they have never played before. Marist, ND & Warren, I don’t believe they have a problem getting ready for a new challenge.
 
The LWE non cons of Naperville Central and Stevenson looked to be competent foes when the schedule was penned. Looking back at others...Edwardsville, Montini, Carmel, Providence, Richards, Maine South, OPRF,Crete...ESL is possible as they played at LWCentral.
 
Not sure what the new challenge would actually be. It's football. If you control the LOS you win.
That cliche is becoming less true in contemporary football. The faster the ball can get outside the edge to the perimeter, especially via the pass and to an extent with the run, "control the LOS" can be reduced in importance against some opponents.
 
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It’s your opinion and I totally disagree. The baloney your saying about East could easily apply to ESL or any other team. East faced 3 teams this year that they have never played before. Marist, ND & Warren, I don’t believe they have a problem getting ready for a new challenge.

Just note he is not an ESL guy. Top programs are built to play other top programs period. That's what make football great.
 
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That cliche is becoming less true in contemporary football. The faster the ball can get outside the edge to the perimeter, especially via the pass and to an extent with the run, "control the LOS" can be reduced in importance against some opponents.
So it would be beneficial to lose the LOS?
 
That cliche is becoming less true in contemporary football. The faster the ball can get outside the edge to the perimeter, especially via the pass and to an extent with the run, "control the LOS" can be reduced in importance against some opponents.

What has been true for decades in football has not changed and simply wont. If you want to "get outside to the edge," you need guys up front that can set the edge - ie a good offensive line. Controlling the LOS isn't just matter of blocking between the tackles, its setting the edges so your backs/receivers can get there.

On defense, your ends and OLB's and even safeties are trying to control the line of scrimmage. Again its not just the area between the tackles, there is so much more to that.

If you look at the best teams in Illinois, in college and in the NFL, the one common denominator is a stout offensive line and, in some cases an equally stout defensive line. A good defensive line can slow down many an offense. I think I saw that with my sons team this past fall.
 
What has been true for decades in football has not changed and simply wont. If you want to "get outside to the edge," you need guys up front that can set the edge - ie a good offensive line. Controlling the LOS isn't just matter of blocking between the tackles, its setting the edges so your backs/receivers can get there.

On defense, your ends and OLB's and even safeties are trying to control the line of scrimmage. Again its not just the area between the tackles, there is so much more to that.

If you look at the best teams in Illinois, in college and in the NFL, the one common denominator is a stout offensive line and, in some cases an equally stout defensive line. A good defensive line can slow down many an offense. I think I saw that with my sons team this past fall.
However, if you take the frequently employed immediate-to-perimeter passing game (quick, bubble & tunnel screens) from a shotgun QB, traditional "control of the LOS" can be reduced. Also, the common jet sweep run actions from shotgun/pistol really only require the EMLOS to be pinned and that is not necessarily even performed by an interior lineman. Furthermore, more jet sweeps are bypassing the hand-off mesh to speed up the play to the outside using a forward toss of some form. By the way, if the latter is mis-handled it is ruled as a incomplete pass, too, not a fumble. C'mon boomers, it is no longer exclusively a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offensive world.
 
However, if you take the frequently employed immediate-to-perimeter passing game (quick, bubble & tunnel screens) from a shotgun QB, traditional "control of the LOS" can be reduced. Also, the common jet sweep run actions from shotgun/pistol really only require the EMLOS to be pinned and that is not necessarily even performed by an interior lineman. Furthermore, more jet sweeps are bypassing the hand-off mesh to speed up the play to the outside using a forward toss of some form. By the way, if the latter is mis-handled it is ruled as a incomplete pass, too, not a fumble. C'mon boomers, it is no longer exclusively a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offensive world.

You don't watch much football do you? If you run jet and my 3-technique blow up your guard, hows that gonna work? If your QB runs boot or tries to run bubble or tunnel and the D-end comes clean, how many yards do you expect do gain? If you run a delay off the edge or some type of heavy to one side and the linebacker or safety reads it and blows the guard up forcing the play to swift out by 5 more yards, how will that run exactly?

Ive done this for a little while. If your o-line doesn't protect well enough, I don't care what kind of offense you run. Clear cut example, Bolingbrook runs a lot of the types of plays you just mentioned. They love to run jet, love to get Suggs on the edge to throw, love to run heavy to the edge. Against a dominant defense that amounted to 57 yards of total offense. Why might you ask? Because their five guys up front couldn't block the four guys on defense.

You go ahead with a mediocre offensive line and Ill bring a couple studs on defense. You can try and out scheme me all you want. But if my four are pushing around your 5, there is no edge to get. There is no rollout passing game.
 
Newt, you are absolutely correct.

As great as LWE D was, the reason why? 8 and 80. THEY set the edge. When they do that, it makes everyone else better. Been that way for 100 years in football and it ain't gonna change.
 
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You don't watch much football do you? If you run jet and my 3-technique blow up your guard, hows that gonna work? If your QB runs boot or tries to run bubble or tunnel and the D-end comes clean, how many yards do you expect do gain? If you run a delay off the edge or some type of heavy to one side and the linebacker or safety reads it and blows the guard up forcing the play to swift out by 5 more yards, how will that run exactly?

Ive done this for a little while. If your o-line doesn't protect well enough, I don't care what kind of offense you run. Clear cut example, Bolingbrook runs a lot of the types of plays you just mentioned. They love to run jet, love to get Suggs on the edge to throw, love to run heavy to the edge. Against a dominant defense that amounted to 57 yards of total offense. Why might you ask? Because their five guys up front couldn't block the four guys on defense.

You go ahead with a mediocre offensive line and Ill bring a couple studs on defense. You can try and out scheme me all you want. But if my four are pushing around your 5, there is no edge to get. There is no rollout passing game.

Which is why I scoff at all these guys after the championships talking about which teams would have beaten Warren or LWE. Furthermore there were defenses not too far behind. It wasn't like there was Warren and LWE, but everyone else is a piece of cake. H-F is one of those teams if they drop down in class that could have been hoisting a trophy.
 
The issue with most high school defenses is defending the pass. When the offense they face have a balanced attack things get very interesting.
 
You don't watch much football do you? If you run jet and my 3-technique blow up your guard, hows that gonna work? If your QB runs boot or tries to run bubble or tunnel and the D-end comes clean, how many yards do you expect do gain? If you run a delay off the edge or some type of heavy to one side and the linebacker or safety reads it and blows the guard up forcing the play to swift out by 5 more yards, how will that run exactly?

Ive done this for a little while. If your o-line doesn't protect well enough, I don't care what kind of offense you run. Clear cut example, Bolingbrook runs a lot of the types of plays you just mentioned. They love to run jet, love to get Suggs on the edge to throw, love to run heavy to the edge. Against a dominant defense that amounted to 57 yards of total offense. Why might you ask? Because their five guys up front couldn't block the four guys on defense.

You go ahead with a mediocre offensive line and Ill bring a couple studs on defense. You can try and out scheme me all you want. But if my four are pushing around your 5, there is no edge to get. There is no rollout passing game.
  • Obviously, no one seeks a mediocre OL, but sometimes that situation requires steps to mitigate such.
  • For example, a 3-tech DL blowing up an OG on a jet sweep with QB under center and the resulting reverse pivot can be potentially avoided with the much deeper exchange using shotgun.
  • I acknowledged that the edge must be pinned, only pointing out that does not have to be done by an OL working from the inside-out.
  • I never tried to include any QB breaking contain (roll/sprint-out or bootleg) actions. I do not consider those as the ball immediate-to-perimeter.
  • Finally, "You don't watch much football do you?" is some reply opening.
 
  • Obviously, no one seeks a mediocre OL, but sometimes that situation requires steps to mitigate such.
  • For example, a 3-tech DL blowing up an OG on a jet sweep with QB under center and the resulting reverse pivot can be potentially avoided with the much deeper exchange using shotgun.
  • I acknowledged that the edge must be pinned, only pointing out that does not have to be done by an OL working from the inside-out.
  • I never tried to include any QB breaking contain (roll/sprint-out or bootleg) actions. I do not consider those as the ball immediate-to-perimeter.
  • Finally, "You don't watch much football do you?" is some reply opening.

Again if your O line is mediocre you won’t win. If the 3 is in the guard inside eye he can easily disrupt the play. Without the qb under center. And if you’re in already who would you suggest helps hold the edge? If you’re think g a crack back by the slot receiver think again. That is now a 15 TD penalty.

If you’re gonna rely on your tackle to stay an end by himself, what will you do with the outside backer? If the outside backer is in coverage what will you do with the safety?

Bottom line is this, you mentioned 3yards and a cloud of rubber pellets. Game has changed but the fundamentals of football remain. If the O line isn’t getting a push or protecting the QB, it doesn’t matter how good your offense is or what scheme you run. It’s been proven time and again it won’t work.

So yes, bring an average to mediocre o line and d line out and see how that goes against an elite front like Warren East HF Rice Marist had this year.

As a former DC I’ll take that every day.
 
Which is why I scoff at all these guys after the championships talking about which teams would have beaten Warren or LWE. Furthermore there were defenses not too far behind. It wasn't like there was Warren and LWE, but everyone else is a piece of cake. H-F is one of those teams if they drop down in class that could have been hoisting a trophy.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the three teams you mentioned face majority run teams this year? There are not a lot of teams that have a vertical passing game in Illinois.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the three teams you mentioned face majority run teams this year? There are not a lot of teams that have a vertical passing game in Illinois.
I don't think those teams allow opponents to have a vertical passing game. the teams I'm talking about can find enough people to play DB and/or put enough pressure on the QB so they can play zone.
 
I don't think those teams allow opponents to have a vertical passing game. the teams I'm talking about can find enough people to play DB and/or put enough pressure on the QB so they can play zone.

Somethings you just can't stop. Ask Warren about AJ Henning. Some teams played 20 yards off of Jeff Thomas and he still ran right by them. Clemson vs Alabama in championship game last year.
 
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Speaking of LWE only now. As Newt eluded to 8 and 80 set the tone from the corners to contain the run vs. Warren. These two players sacrificed sack numbers this season to play a disciplined positional defense. The vertical game, when thrown at them, yielded yardage vs. the Griffins but the balance of the defense was up to the task, and they were turned loose in key moments to pressure the QB. ( thinking H-F, Marist and Nap. Central, Niles ND games ) The vertical game LWE had last season in 2018 prepared this years team to that challenge. If you follow Maine South, their best years are when there is the RB threat to go with the usual all-state QB output.
 
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Somethings you just can't stop. Ask Warren about AJ Henning. Some teams played 20 yards off of Jeff Thomas and he still ran right by them. Clemson vs Alabama in championship game last year.

He broke one run of 51 yards other than that I say they stopped him pretty well. Didn’t catch a pass, didn’t hurt them in the return game. He was the East offense.
 
Newt he sure was the bulk of the offense but scored only half the points. The kicker Dom set the tone for the game which cancelled the need to pass for the Griffins and took the risk out of the game plan. Trust me, AJ can catch a football. It is a shame the weather was such a factor. Warren will be back...they just learned to be champions this year.
 
Newt he sure was the bulk of the offense but scored only half the points. The kicker Dom set the tone for the game which cancelled the need to pass for the Griffins and took the risk out of the game plan. Trust me, AJ can catch a football. It is a shame the weather was such a factor. Warren will be back...they just learned to be champions this year.


Oh yah I know. The weather was a huge factor for both teams.
 
As great as LWE D was, the reason why? 8 and 80. THEY set the edge. When they do that, it makes everyone else better. Been that way for 100 years in football and it ain't gonna change.

Totally agree. The offense and defensive line control the game if either are weak I guarantee the team will struggle. Having a strong line will make everyone else better.
 
He broke one run of 51 yards other than that I say they stopped him pretty well. Didn’t catch a pass, didn’t hurt them in the return game. He was the East offense.

which is what I would expect from a great defense versus a great offensive player. He was going to at least break one. There is no such thing as completely shutting a great player down
 
Somethings you just can't stop. Ask Warren about AJ Henning. Some teams played 20 yards off of Jeff Thomas and he still ran right by them. Clemson vs Alabama in championship game last year.
They did a good job on AJ. He got loose 1 time. Jeff Thomas is a phenomenal talent, but the defense on him clearly works or Miami would be undefeated by just throwing it up to him. AJ Henning is a phenomenal player, but not unstoppable. Phenomenal players are nothing new. In the larger classes the teams have enough quality players to account for it.
 
They did a good job on AJ. He got loose 1 time. Jeff Thomas is a phenomenal talent, but the defense on him clearly works or Miami would be undefeated by just throwing it up to him. AJ Henning is a phenomenal player, but not unstoppable. Phenomenal players are nothing new. In the larger classes the teams have enough quality players to account for it.

I specifically said High School. Colleges have the ability to recruit the country to find players to stop guys like AJ and Jeff. There aren’t too many secondary’s in High School where all 4 players are going D1. I guess as long as they are 8A, they probably have at least two maybe three. Only top football players play in 8A. Got it.
 
I specifically said High School. Colleges have the ability to recruit the country to find players to stop guys like AJ and Jeff. There aren’t too many secondary’s in High School where all 4 players are going D1. I guess as long as they are 8A, they probably have at least two maybe three. Only top football players play in 8A. Got it.
You keep showing you don't know football. Tell me how many D1 WRs were on NV when they were scorching all those D1 DBs on the Flyers roster.

It's not about being D1, it's about being able to play the game. A lot of being D1 is having measurables anyways. Surely you recall Rodney Coe.

And finally, ESL is not the only school with kids that have offers.
 
You keep showing you don't know football. Tell me how many D1 WRs were on NV when they were scorching all those D1 DBs on the Flyers roster.

It's not about being D1, it's about being able to play the game. A lot of being D1 is having measurables anyways. Surely you recall Rodney Coe.

And finally, ESL is not the only school with kids that have offers.
You’re a piece of work. You want to target and attack ESL at every turn. You are are one-tune player.

Now, I hope they don’t return that dog they stole from you. It answers to a new name it loves that family more.

Because you suck.
 
You keep showing you don't know football. Tell me how many D1 WRs were on NV when they were scorching all those D1 DBs on the Flyers roster.

It's not about being D1, it's about being able to play the game. A lot of being D1 is having measurables anyways. Surely you recall Rodney Coe.

And finally, ESL is not the only school with kids that have offers.


Why do you make it so easy? NV has a QB committed to South Dakota State, one WR committed to Northern Illinois and another WR committed to SIUC. So that's a D1 QB throwing to 2 D1 WR.

Do you have any more questions or would you like to stop there? It's up to you.

You also mentioned Rodney Coe, why? He played RB for Edwardsville and went to college as a D Lineman. I’m not sure what you are referencing here.
 
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You keep showing you don't know football. Tell me how many D1 WRs were on NV when they were scorching all those D1 DBs on the Flyers roster.

It's not about being D1, it's about being able to play the game. A lot of being D1 is having measurables anyways. Surely you recall Rodney Coe.

And finally, ESL is not the only school with kids that have offers.

I’ve seen you make the statement on several threads, inferring that somehow you are a football guru, despite many on this board proving that you don’t know a damn thing.

Regardless, keep em coming. I’m cataloging all your circle-talking BS.
 
Why do you make it so easy? NV has a QB committed to South Dakota State, one WR committed to Northern Illinois and another WR committed to SIUC. So that's a D1 QB throwing to 2 D1 WR.

Do you have any more questions or would you like to stop there? It's up to you.

You also mentioned Rodney Coe, why? He played RB for Edwardsville and went to college as a D Lineman. I’m not sure what you are referencing here.
So according to you 3 D1 guys going to non P5 schools scorched the multiple D1 guys including P5 guys on the Flyers defense and you think this helps your argument. Amazing. Did any of the NV guys not going D1 do anything?

I mentioned Rodney Coe because he was a highly touted D1 guy who was not the best player on the field. He had the measurables though.

If you guys continue to use the D1 guys argument I will continue to show how they got torched by NV.
 
I’ve seen you make the statement on several threads, inferring that somehow you are a football guru, despite many on this board proving that you don’t know a damn thing.

Regardless, keep em coming. I’m cataloging all your circle-talking BS.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me about guys like me.

Yeah, when a guy thinks Naperville Central was surprised by their schedule they have basically admitted they don't know anything about Illinois football. Everyone knew before week 1 it was probably the toughest schedule in the state. Well, not everyone, the people who specialize in Missouri football didn't.
 
I'm still waiting for you to tell me about guys like me.

Yeah, when a guy thinks Naperville Central was surprised by their schedule they have basically admitted they don't know anything about Illinois football. Everyone knew before week 1 it was probably the toughest schedule in the state. Well, not everyone, the people who specialize in Missouri football didn't.

Thanks. Don’t stop there. Keep em coming. Here you are again being an idiot. Anyone with half of a brain would have realized by now that I am not the sole Tiger on this board.
 
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Thanks. Don’t stop there. Keep em coming. Here you are again being an idiot. Anyone with half of a brain would have realized by now that I am not the sole Tiger on this board.
You all just use the same dumb arguments: "we have D1 guys" and "we run up the score on overmatched teams"

Still waiting for you to tell me about guys like me.
 
You all just use the same dumb arguments: "we have D1 guys" and "we run up the score on overmatched teams"

Still waiting for you to tell me about guys like me.
“You all”? Lol. Quote me having made those statements anywhere on this board. But, I’m sure to you we’re ALL the same. Got it now??

In fact, cite where any Flyer supporter has made any mention of D1 offers as to say that ESL is superior because of em. You’re the one who has repetitively mentioned them; showing both your obsession and disdain for them.

But regardless, keep your BS coming. I’m documenting all your dumb and embarrassing to most rhetoric. “They’re (we’re) all gonna laugh at you.”
 
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I specifically said High School. Colleges have the ability to recruit the country to find players to stop guys like AJ and Jeff. There aren’t too many secondary’s in High School where all 4 players are going D1. I guess as long as they are 8A, they probably have at least two maybe three. Only top football players play in 8A. Got it.
Well, @TigerforFlyers here's one suggesting that you need 4 D1 guys in the secondary to defend ESL.

It's the same dumb stuff over and over. Maybe since you disagree you can tell LHS that all those offers didn't mean anything to NV so he should hush on that.

I'll wait.
 
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