Harold Baines HOF?
- Thread starter eireog
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Solid career. Decent average and 384 dongs. Not a tear it up guy or game breaker, just consistent. Good enough for HOF? I was a big fan but I don’t know.
Interesting Fact: Harold Baines was the 1st pick in the first round in 1977, Bill Gullickson of JCA / JCHS was the 2nd pick of the first round in 1977 by Montreal.
Gullickson was the projected 1st pick and everyone thought he was the perfect fit from Joliet Catholic to play for the Chicago.
Gullickson finished 2nd in the voting for 1980 Rookie of the year (and) held the record for most strikeouts in one game as a rookie with 18 until Kerry Wood broke that in 1998.
Gullickson's MLB stats (not counting 2 years in Japan):
162-136 record, 3.93 ERA, 1,279 strickouts.
Gullickson was the projected 1st pick and everyone thought he was the perfect fit from Joliet Catholic to play for the Chicago.
Gullickson finished 2nd in the voting for 1980 Rookie of the year (and) held the record for most strikeouts in one game as a rookie with 18 until Kerry Wood broke that in 1998.
Gullickson's MLB stats (not counting 2 years in Japan):
162-136 record, 3.93 ERA, 1,279 strickouts.
Relaxed standards for HOF induction waters down the award for everyone. Not cool. I agree with @septon34, Baines is White Sox HOF but not MLB.
I'd like to hear the argument from anyone who can start a sentence with this... "It would be an injustice to MLB and fans if Harold Baines were not inducted into the HOF because..."
Let's hear it.
I'd like to hear the argument from anyone who can start a sentence with this... "It would be an injustice to MLB and fans if Harold Baines were not inducted into the HOF because..."
Let's hear it.
This is the problem when you start letting guys like Ron Santo in, you also have to let guys like Harold in. Very, very god hitters, but not all-time greats.
At least if you look at the JAWS rating that Ignazio posted Santo is ranked 7th.
To me, a guy like Albert Belle is more deserving than either. He was GREAT for 10+ years, as opposed to very good over 15-20. Take a look at his 162 game averages compared to Santo's or Baines'.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belleal01.shtml
From what I’m reading Jerry Reinsdorf was responsible for him getting in. I just think it opens the door for many more undeserving players to be elected.
Terry Boers always talked about a commmitee to remove those that don’t belong. I agree with him.
Terry Boers always talked about a commmitee to remove those that don’t belong. I agree with him.
Santo whined his way in. He was a nice player and fan favorite but they ran so many interviews with him pleading his case it seemed desperate. As for Harold, I love the Sox, I loved Harold, I own his jersey, summer of 83 was a favorite of mine as a kid, I was glued to my little black and white TV in my room watching every game and he was like a God to me. That being said I admit I was a bit shocked...on this list I would have taken Murphy and Garvey over him. But I’ll take Harold in the Hall any day!
he is one of my all-time favorite White Sox players. Congratulations to Harold!
I’m not a huge sabermetrician and certainly not up in arms but I never felt and still don’t feel Harold was a Hall of Famer.
Congratulations to Harold Baines!
The HOF has not been kind to the White Sox. They took forever to induct Nellie Fox, and the great Minnie Minoso was snubbed because he participated in Veeck's stupid stunts.
It's ironic that Santo's career numbers were spoiled by the lousy stats in his final year -- with the White Sox.
The HOF has not been kind to the White Sox. They took forever to induct Nellie Fox, and the great Minnie Minoso was snubbed because he participated in Veeck's stupid stunts.
It's ironic that Santo's career numbers were spoiled by the lousy stats in his final year -- with the White Sox.
"Spoiled" is a bit of an exaggeration. His year with the Sox only lowered his career batting average 2 points and on base percentage 4 points.
Agree with you 100% except about Santo, had Baines and Dale Murphy jerseys back in the day both number 3's oddly enough.
Longevity was what got Baines in. If not for the labor strikes he has 3,000 hits his numbers were consistent all the way through and he ended his career in the steroid era.
He was voted in by the group that puts guys in more because of the things they do and people they are outside of the box score.
Actually people in baseball hated Santo that was why it took him until he had passed away to get in. Polar opposite to Harold Baines.
I don't think Lee Smith belongs either. If it takes a long time to convince voters a person is a HOFer, then they aren't a HOFer. This goes for Baines, Lee Smith, Santo, Nellie Fox.......
I don’t doubt that to be true for a minute.
I’m a White Sox fan and Harold was one of my favorites, but not quite a HOF player in my estimation.
Actually, when the Sox traded Harold, Jerry was so upset the Sox retired Harold’s number.
While he was still playing for the Rangers.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-08-21-8901060870-story.html
Baines is not a HOFr, maybe a White Sox HoF but not a MLB HoF. Hall of very good maybe. Reinsdorf has loved this guy always and this is all him. He retired Baine's # while he was still playing. Garvey is a Hall of Famer before Baines, its so ridiculous. And Santo was almost sad to see politicking to get in, all over having a plaque in a museum. Bottom line is you are a Hall of Famer or your not.
The 1998 season Belle had for the Sox is something out of 1920’s Murders Row lore.
Harold Baines himself is shocked. What does that tell you? I like Harold Baines as much as the next guy but he certainly does not belong in the HOF. No way. Here is an example of a guy who got big time offensive help by being a DH and whose career was extended by the DH. So to the guy who said he would have gotten 3,000 hits if the strike seasons didn't occur, he wouldn't have played as long without the DH either.
Most people don't realize this, but as long as his career was, he was a full time outfielder for only seven years. The rest was spent mostly as a DH. I just have a problem with guys who aren't complete players being in the HOF, especially if they are tweeners like Baines.
Obviously numbers are the largest part of a guy going in or not. But, I think most of the time a guy has to be thought of sometime in his career as the best at his position in his league or in the entire league. That just never happened for Baines and he was never thought of that way. He never won a single gold glove. The closest he ever came to being an MVP was when he came in 9th place in the voting. He was only on 6 All Star teams and 2 of those were after the age of 30. As a DH he drove in 100 runs only once. He never hit as many as 30 HRs in a season.
These are career numbers comparable to Rusty Staub.But Staub only played a few years in the AL and most of his career was in the NL. But Staub isn't in the hall and I don't think he should be.
Look at Don Mattingly's career. Fourteen big league seasons. A career .307 hitter. Nine gold glove awards. He won the MVP in 1985 and was runner-up in 1986 and was considered the best player in his league at one time. Also came in 5th in the MVP voting in 1984. Drove in 100+ runs in 5 different seasons. Led the league in hits twice and in hitting once. 2,100+ career hits. Hit over .300 six years in a row. Yet, I feel like he doesn't belong in the HOF either. However, if injuries didn't cut his career short, he probably would be.
As time goes on it seems as more undeserving guys are getting into the baseball HOF. This is an abomination.
Most people don't realize this, but as long as his career was, he was a full time outfielder for only seven years. The rest was spent mostly as a DH. I just have a problem with guys who aren't complete players being in the HOF, especially if they are tweeners like Baines.
Obviously numbers are the largest part of a guy going in or not. But, I think most of the time a guy has to be thought of sometime in his career as the best at his position in his league or in the entire league. That just never happened for Baines and he was never thought of that way. He never won a single gold glove. The closest he ever came to being an MVP was when he came in 9th place in the voting. He was only on 6 All Star teams and 2 of those were after the age of 30. As a DH he drove in 100 runs only once. He never hit as many as 30 HRs in a season.
These are career numbers comparable to Rusty Staub.But Staub only played a few years in the AL and most of his career was in the NL. But Staub isn't in the hall and I don't think he should be.
Look at Don Mattingly's career. Fourteen big league seasons. A career .307 hitter. Nine gold glove awards. He won the MVP in 1985 and was runner-up in 1986 and was considered the best player in his league at one time. Also came in 5th in the MVP voting in 1984. Drove in 100+ runs in 5 different seasons. Led the league in hits twice and in hitting once. 2,100+ career hits. Hit over .300 six years in a row. Yet, I feel like he doesn't belong in the HOF either. However, if injuries didn't cut his career short, he probably would be.
As time goes on it seems as more undeserving guys are getting into the baseball HOF. This is an abomination.
Nice guy, glad he got in...if not for the two work stoppages, he would've made it to 3,000 hits and that used to be like an automatic induction.
Not everyone agrees and that's fine. But the induction of Smith is just as shaky and I find it typical that everyone is complaining about the Sox guy.
Not everyone agrees and that's fine. But the induction of Smith is just as shaky and I find it typical that everyone is complaining about the Sox guy.
Why is it some of you guys say this without doing any research? No, Baines would not have reached 3,000 hits if there weren't any strikes in 1981 and 1994. Those two strikes totaled about 15 weeks in work stoppages. Baines would have had to get 134 hits in those few months to reach 3,000. No way that happens for a guy who averaged 130 hits per year during his 22 year career. Sorry, he doesn't belong.
Baines only played in 82 games in 1981. So, for all we know he may have been injured at the time of the strike anyway.
I'm very happy about this honor; also, it annoys Cub fans that Lee Smith has to share the limelight.
You have a problem with guys who aren't complete players making it? How about Frank Thomas?
Smith had a lot of saves but I remember him more for coming in the 9th inning and the opposition always hitting a home run against him.
Also the HOF will never be the HOF until Pete Rose is inducted. He played the game the way I would like to see every player play the game.
Also the HOF will never be the HOF until Pete Rose is inducted. He played the game the way I would like to see every player play the game.
Didn't Steve Garvey own him in the 1984 NLCS? That's all I remember about Smith.
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